Who has the virus?? Tell us when you get it.

[treeduck]

Quick update:

 

[Syrinx]

The chart is kind of meaningless in that with medical advancements today of course Covid is down the list. If Covid occurred in the 14th century the death toll would have been way higher.

[stoopid]

Couple other things to note regarding that chart...

 

1) We're approaching 1M with no sign of slowing down globally, projected we will end up between the 17th Century Plagues (3M) and the Asian Flu (1.1M).

2) There were fewer people in the <19th Century, so death tolls in the millions was a significant percent of the total worldwide population.

3) Accurate numbers for the older pandemics are hard to come by, and those estimates could be much lower than the reality of the time [although there's evidence of under-counting even today]

[Rhyta]

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris suggested the governors should implement mask mandates for the next 3 months. I understand the call for the mandates, but why only 3 months? Much of the US will be forced indoors in 3 months by the weather.

Why 3 months? Because 79 days would have looked too obvious.

I suspect if he wins, this virus thing will magically disappear.

 

Would it also disappear in Italy, Spain, England, South Korea, Japan, Brazil, etc.?

Yes, because as I understand it, Trump caused their problems as well.

No, that's why our cases are so high, Trump pretended it didn't exist. He didn't cause the virus but he sure as hell made sure to screw things up royally.

 

We are also the third largest country, population-wise, in the world. With a number of high-density population centers. One of our largest and most dense population centers also has a large international airport and is a popular travel destination. Even if the Chinese government immediately alerted the world to the virus in November, short of sealing our borders completely to all foreigners, and quarantining Americans allowed to return (the only people allowed to enter after the borders were sealed) I don’t know what the federal government could have done to prevent the virus’ introduction to the US. Once here, governors have a lot of tools to enforce public health requirements within their borders, but the federal government’s powers are more limited. For example, the federal government has no power to make you wear a mask indoors. Only the state can do that.

 

Let’s hope Moderna is successful with its vaccine trials.

 

There were plenty of people warning of what was to come and the mitigation efforts suggested fell on deaf ears. Those other countries took swift action and made some inroads where our government just twiddled our fingers.

 

Due to exponential viral spread, our delay in action was devastating. In the wake of the U.S. response, 117,858 Americans died in the four months following the first 15 confirmed cases. After an equivalent period, Germany suffered only 8,863 casualties. Scaling up the German population of 83.7 million to America’s 331 million, a U.S.-sized Germany would have suffered 35,049 Covid-19 deaths. So if the U.S. had acted as effectively as Germany, 70% of U.S. coronavirus deaths might have been prevented.

Seventy percent, though, is the most conservative estimate. Scaled-up versions of South Korea, Australia, and Singapore would have experienced 1,758, 1,324, and 1,358 deaths, respectively, in the four months after 15 cases were confirmed in each country. Had we handled the coronavirus as effectively as any of these three countries, roughly 99% of the 117,858 U.S. Covid-19 deaths might have been averted.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/19/faster-response-prevented-most-us-covid-19-deaths/

 

It is a good article from a science based group, there is always room for human error but it didn't have to be this way. We could have had a disaster from Ebola but because we acted quickly and went overseas to help contain the disease, we only had 2 deaths in the US. Two different diseases and two different responses. There was no plan how to deal with it, fail to plan-plan to fail.

[Rick N. Backer]

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris suggested the governors should implement mask mandates for the next 3 months. I understand the call for the mandates, but why only 3 months? Much of the US will be forced indoors in 3 months by the weather.

Why 3 months? Because 79 days would have looked too obvious.

I suspect if he wins, this virus thing will magically disappear.

 

Would it also disappear in Italy, Spain, England, South Korea, Japan, Brazil, etc.?

Yes, because as I understand it, Trump caused their problems as well.

No, that's why our cases are so high, Trump pretended it didn't exist. He didn't cause the virus but he sure as hell made sure to screw things up royally.

 

We are also the third largest country, population-wise, in the world. With a number of high-density population centers. One of our largest and most dense population centers also has a large international airport and is a popular travel destination. Even if the Chinese government immediately alerted the world to the virus in November, short of sealing our borders completely to all foreigners, and quarantining Americans allowed to return (the only people allowed to enter after the borders were sealed) I don’t know what the federal government could have done to prevent the virus’ introduction to the US. Once here, governors have a lot of tools to enforce public health requirements within their borders, but the federal government’s powers are more limited. For example, the federal government has no power to make you wear a mask indoors. Only the state can do that.

 

Let’s hope Moderna is successful with its vaccine trials.

 

There were plenty of people warning of what was to come and the mitigation efforts suggested fell on deaf ears. Those other countries took swift action and made some inroads where our government just twiddled our fingers.

 

Due to exponential viral spread, our delay in action was devastating. In the wake of the U.S. response, 117,858 Americans died in the four months following the first 15 confirmed cases. After an equivalent period, Germany suffered only 8,863 casualties. Scaling up the German population of 83.7 million to America’s 331 million, a U.S.-sized Germany would have suffered 35,049 Covid-19 deaths. So if the U.S. had acted as effectively as Germany, 70% of U.S. coronavirus deaths might have been prevented.

Seventy percent, though, is the most conservative estimate. Scaled-up versions of South Korea, Australia, and Singapore would have experienced 1,758, 1,324, and 1,358 deaths, respectively, in the four months after 15 cases were confirmed in each country. Had we handled the coronavirus as effectively as any of these three countries, roughly 99% of the 117,858 U.S. Covid-19 deaths might have been averted.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/19/faster-response-prevented-most-us-covid-19-deaths/

 

It is a good article from a science based group, there is always room for human error but it didn't have to be this way. We could have had a disaster from Ebola but because we acted quickly and went overseas to help contain the disease, we only had 2 deaths in the US. Two different diseases and two different responses. There was no plan how to deal with it, fail to plan-plan to fail.

 

I've heard this with regularity, and I'm open to having it explained to me, but I do need to ask: what specifically do you think the federal government should have done differently? I think it's important to distinguish between things we think are good ideas, and things the federal government of the US (as distinguished from the states' governments) has the legal power to do. I gave you an example of my point above. Your governor can, using the state's police powers, order that everyone who goes inside a store wear a mask. The federal government does not have police powers (which doesn't mean the right to arrest people, it means the right to order or prohibit things for the general welfare) so it can't make that same order. Andrew Cuomo is apparently writing a book about how well he handled the virus. His state has had 32,495 deaths. He had at his disposal far greater powers to address the virus than Trump did once the virus was inside NY. Trump could have closed the borders, expelled non-citizens, allowed only citizens to return, and ordered them held in quarantine for a period of time once they did return. Immigration policy is a federal issue. Beyond that, the federal government didn't have a lot of power, compared to the states, to address the virus. I doubt many people would have supported Trump if he had used the powers that were at his disposal.

 

With all due respect, it's also no answer to say "if we had handled the coronavirus as effectively as [other] countries," if those countries aren't analogous, in terms of how their governments are organized, to ours. Singapore, as you probably remember from some high profile cases a few years ago, allows people to be "caned," and drug trafficking is a capital offense. Melbourne, Australia still has a curfew, and limits how far you can travel from your home to 5 km. China wouldn't have the same "problem" with riots that Portland is having right now, but that's because it would execute rioters or send them to prisons never to be seen or heard from again. Saying we should have handled things like other countries is a bit like criticizing me because I can't dunk a basketball like Jayson Tatum. He's thirty years younger than me and 9 inches taller.

 

I didn't vote for Trump in 2016. I don't own a MAGA hat. I do, however, think that it's important, to avoid simply suggesting that any government official should "DO SOMETHING" without considering whether or not the official has the power to do it.

[Nova Carmina]

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris suggested the governors should implement mask mandates for the next 3 months. I understand the call for the mandates, but why only 3 months? Much of the US will be forced indoors in 3 months by the weather.

Why 3 months? Because 79 days would have looked too obvious.

I suspect if he wins, this virus thing will magically disappear.

 

Would it also disappear in Italy, Spain, England, South Korea, Japan, Brazil, etc.?

Yes, because as I understand it, Trump caused their problems as well.

No, that's why our cases are so high, Trump pretended it didn't exist. He didn't cause the virus but he sure as hell made sure to screw things up royally.

 

We are also the third largest country, population-wise, in the world. With a number of high-density population centers. One of our largest and most dense population centers also has a large international airport and is a popular travel destination. Even if the Chinese government immediately alerted the world to the virus in November, short of sealing our borders completely to all foreigners, and quarantining Americans allowed to return (the only people allowed to enter after the borders were sealed) I don’t know what the federal government could have done to prevent the virus’ introduction to the US. Once here, governors have a lot of tools to enforce public health requirements within their borders, but the federal government’s powers are more limited. For example, the federal government has no power to make you wear a mask indoors. Only the state can do that.

 

Let’s hope Moderna is successful with its vaccine trials.

 

There were plenty of people warning of what was to come and the mitigation efforts suggested fell on deaf ears. Those other countries took swift action and made some inroads where our government just twiddled our fingers.

 

Due to exponential viral spread, our delay in action was devastating. In the wake of the U.S. response, 117,858 Americans died in the four months following the first 15 confirmed cases. After an equivalent period, Germany suffered only 8,863 casualties. Scaling up the German population of 83.7 million to America’s 331 million, a U.S.-sized Germany would have suffered 35,049 Covid-19 deaths. So if the U.S. had acted as effectively as Germany, 70% of U.S. coronavirus deaths might have been prevented.

Seventy percent, though, is the most conservative estimate. Scaled-up versions of South Korea, Australia, and Singapore would have experienced 1,758, 1,324, and 1,358 deaths, respectively, in the four months after 15 cases were confirmed in each country. Had we handled the coronavirus as effectively as any of these three countries, roughly 99% of the 117,858 U.S. Covid-19 deaths might have been averted.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/19/faster-response-prevented-most-us-covid-19-deaths/

 

It is a good article from a science based group, there is always room for human error but it didn't have to be this way. We could have had a disaster from Ebola but because we acted quickly and went overseas to help contain the disease, we only had 2 deaths in the US. Two different diseases and two different responses. There was no plan how to deal with it, fail to plan-plan to fail.

 

I've heard this with regularity, and I'm open to having it explained to me, but I do need to ask: what specifically do you think the federal government should have done differently? I think it's important to distinguish between things we think are good ideas, and things the federal government of the US (as distinguished from the states' governments) has the legal power to do. I gave you an example of my point above. Your governor can, using the state's police powers, order that everyone who goes inside a store wear a mask. The federal government does not have police powers (which doesn't mean the right to arrest people, it means the right to order or prohibit things for the general welfare) so it can't make that same order. Andrew Cuomo is apparently writing a book about how well he handled the virus. His state has had 32,495 deaths. He had at his disposal far greater powers to address the virus than Trump did once the virus was inside NY. Trump could have closed the borders, expelled non-citizens, allowed only citizens to return, and ordered them held in quarantine for a period of time once they did return. Immigration policy is a federal issue. Beyond that, the federal government didn't have a lot of power, compared to the states, to address the virus. I doubt many people would have supported Trump if he had used the powers that were at his disposal.

 

With all due respect, it's also no answer to say "if we had handled the coronavirus as effectively as [other] countries," if those countries aren't analogous, in terms of how their governments are organized, to ours. Singapore, as you probably remember from some high profile cases a few years ago, allows people to be "caned," and drug trafficking is a capital offense. Melbourne, Australia still has a curfew, and limits how far you can travel from your home to 5 km. China wouldn't have the same "problem" with riots that Portland is having right now, but that's because it would execute rioters or send them to prisons never to be seen or heard from again. Saying we should have handled things like other countries is a bit like criticizing me because I can't dunk a basketball like Jayson Tatum. He's thirty years younger than me and 9 inches taller.

 

I didn't vote for Trump in 2016. I don't own a MAGA hat. I do, however, think that it's important, to avoid simply suggesting that any government official should "DO SOMETHING" without considering whether or not the official has the power to do it.

 

What you say is all true, but it sells short the presidency as a "bully pulpit" ("bully" as in great, not cruel) useful for inspiration and leadership. The presidency is very powerful for imaging, for direction, for tone-setting, etc. A president who was encouraging, serious about science, supportive of governors' plans, active in seeking to help in the limited ways the federal government can, one who wore a mask, didn't offer theories about disinfectant use, etc. etc., would have been more "useful" for the country.

 

We shouldn't want an imperial presidency, but we also shouldn't be satisfied with a chief executive whose main strategy seemed to be to try to wish it away. Our president had the power to do more, better, if he had wanted to.

 

No matter what tone he set, of course, the virus would still be spreading around the country, the closures would still be problematic, economically and socially; there is no magical federal power to eliminate many of the consequences, all true.

[Rick N. Backer]

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris suggested the governors should implement mask mandates for the next 3 months. I understand the call for the mandates, but why only 3 months? Much of the US will be forced indoors in 3 months by the weather.

Why 3 months? Because 79 days would have looked too obvious.

I suspect if he wins, this virus thing will magically disappear.

 

Would it also disappear in Italy, Spain, England, South Korea, Japan, Brazil, etc.?

Yes, because as I understand it, Trump caused their problems as well.

No, that's why our cases are so high, Trump pretended it didn't exist. He didn't cause the virus but he sure as hell made sure to screw things up royally.

 

We are also the third largest country, population-wise, in the world. With a number of high-density population centers. One of our largest and most dense population centers also has a large international airport and is a popular travel destination. Even if the Chinese government immediately alerted the world to the virus in November, short of sealing our borders completely to all foreigners, and quarantining Americans allowed to return (the only people allowed to enter after the borders were sealed) I don’t know what the federal government could have done to prevent the virus’ introduction to the US. Once here, governors have a lot of tools to enforce public health requirements within their borders, but the federal government’s powers are more limited. For example, the federal government has no power to make you wear a mask indoors. Only the state can do that.

 

Let’s hope Moderna is successful with its vaccine trials.

 

There were plenty of people warning of what was to come and the mitigation efforts suggested fell on deaf ears. Those other countries took swift action and made some inroads where our government just twiddled our fingers.

 

Due to exponential viral spread, our delay in action was devastating. In the wake of the U.S. response, 117,858 Americans died in the four months following the first 15 confirmed cases. After an equivalent period, Germany suffered only 8,863 casualties. Scaling up the German population of 83.7 million to America’s 331 million, a U.S.-sized Germany would have suffered 35,049 Covid-19 deaths. So if the U.S. had acted as effectively as Germany, 70% of U.S. coronavirus deaths might have been prevented.

Seventy percent, though, is the most conservative estimate. Scaled-up versions of South Korea, Australia, and Singapore would have experienced 1,758, 1,324, and 1,358 deaths, respectively, in the four months after 15 cases were confirmed in each country. Had we handled the coronavirus as effectively as any of these three countries, roughly 99% of the 117,858 U.S. Covid-19 deaths might have been averted.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/19/faster-response-prevented-most-us-covid-19-deaths/

 

It is a good article from a science based group, there is always room for human error but it didn't have to be this way. We could have had a disaster from Ebola but because we acted quickly and went overseas to help contain the disease, we only had 2 deaths in the US. Two different diseases and two different responses. There was no plan how to deal with it, fail to plan-plan to fail.

 

I've heard this with regularity, and I'm open to having it explained to me, but I do need to ask: what specifically do you think the federal government should have done differently? I think it's important to distinguish between things we think are good ideas, and things the federal government of the US (as distinguished from the states' governments) has the legal power to do. I gave you an example of my point above. Your governor can, using the state's police powers, order that everyone who goes inside a store wear a mask. The federal government does not have police powers (which doesn't mean the right to arrest people, it means the right to order or prohibit things for the general welfare) so it can't make that same order. Andrew Cuomo is apparently writing a book about how well he handled the virus. His state has had 32,495 deaths. He had at his disposal far greater powers to address the virus than Trump did once the virus was inside NY. Trump could have closed the borders, expelled non-citizens, allowed only citizens to return, and ordered them held in quarantine for a period of time once they did return. Immigration policy is a federal issue. Beyond that, the federal government didn't have a lot of power, compared to the states, to address the virus. I doubt many people would have supported Trump if he had used the powers that were at his disposal.

 

With all due respect, it's also no answer to say "if we had handled the coronavirus as effectively as [other] countries," if those countries aren't analogous, in terms of how their governments are organized, to ours. Singapore, as you probably remember from some high profile cases a few years ago, allows people to be "caned," and drug trafficking is a capital offense. Melbourne, Australia still has a curfew, and limits how far you can travel from your home to 5 km. China wouldn't have the same "problem" with riots that Portland is having right now, but that's because it would execute rioters or send them to prisons never to be seen or heard from again. Saying we should have handled things like other countries is a bit like criticizing me because I can't dunk a basketball like Jayson Tatum. He's thirty years younger than me and 9 inches taller.

 

I didn't vote for Trump in 2016. I don't own a MAGA hat. I do, however, think that it's important, to avoid simply suggesting that any government official should "DO SOMETHING" without considering whether or not the official has the power to do it.

 

What you say is all true, but it sells short the presidency as a "bully pulpit" ("bully" as in great, not cruel) useful for inspiration and leadership. The presidency is very powerful for imaging, for direction, for tone-setting, etc. A president who was encouraging, serious about science, supportive of governors' plans, active in seeking to help in the limited ways the federal government can, one who wore a mask, didn't offer theories about disinfectant use, etc. etc., would have been more "useful" for the country.

 

We shouldn't want an imperial presidency, but we also shouldn't be satisfied with a chief executive whose main strategy seemed to be to try to wish it away. Our president had the power to do more, better, if he had wanted to.

 

No matter what tone he set, of course, the virus would still be spreading around the country, the closures would still be problematic, economically and socially; there is no magical federal power to eliminate many of the consequences, all true.

 

You hit the nail on the head for me. We don't want the imperial presidency, and we don't want to pretend that it is. If the argument is that the administration has done a poor job "messaging" about the virus, I agree. I just want to make sure we distinguish between doing a bad job with messaging (the bully pulpit aspect you mentioned) and doing a bad job substantively. I also think we want to be careful about suggesting that there is a causal relationship between a messaging failure and the spread of the virus. For example, I question how many people from NY, the state with the most deaths by miles, got the virus because Trump questioned the efficacy of masks in March and April. More problematic, I suspect, was de Blasio telling people to just go on with their lives in February, and doing nothing about public transportation. And, of course, Cuomo's disastrous order about returning people with the virus to nursing homes.

[pjbear05]

I may be taking a bit chance, but I don't have much of a choice. Taking my car to dealer service for some recall initiated repair, and other maintenance. Will be in a customer waiting room for a while, if I'm not on the lot looking for a new vehicle. Should be interesting.

[Nova Carmina]

I may be taking a bit chance, but I don't have much of a choice. Taking my car to dealer service for some recall initiated repair, and other maintenance. Will be in a customer waiting room for a while, if I'm not on the lot looking for a new vehicle. Should be interesting.

 

Go to the lot -- it'll be safer and more interesting, if possibly more expensive. Of course, I don't know how hot it is down your way, so maybe the AC is worth it!

[Disk98]

I may be taking a bit chance, but I don't have much of a choice. Taking my car to dealer service for some recall initiated repair, and other maintenance. Will be in a customer waiting room for a while, if I'm not on the lot looking for a new vehicle. Should be interesting.

 

Go to the lot -- it'll be safer and more interesting, if possibly more expensive. Of course, I don't know how hot it is down your way, so maybe the AC is worth it!

He’s in FL, like me. Trust me, you don’t want to go without A/C down here.

[treeduck]

I may be taking a bit chance, but I don't have much of a choice. Taking my car to dealer service for some recall initiated repair, and other maintenance. Will be in a customer waiting room for a while, if I'm not on the lot looking for a new vehicle. Should be interesting.

 

Go to the lot -- it'll be safer and more interesting, if possibly more expensive. Of course, I don't know how hot it is down your way, so maybe the AC is worth it!

He’s in FL, like me. Trust me, you don’t want to go without A/C down here.

Edited August 26, 2020 by treeduck

[pjbear05]

I may be taking a bit chance, but I don't have much of a choice. Taking my car to dealer service for some recall initiated repair, and other maintenance. Will be in a customer waiting room for a while, if I'm not on the lot looking for a new vehicle. Should be interesting.

 

Go to the lot -- it'll be safer and more interesting, if possibly more expensive. Of course, I don't know how hot it is down your way, so maybe the AC is worth it!

He’s in FL, like me. Trust me, you don’t want to go without A/C down here.

Amen, Disk, high 80's and humidity is no joke, either. We're talking 2-3 hours minimum. I do want to look at the '20 Santa Fe though, and my financials are good for it.

[Syrinx]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/08/27/a-majority-of-canadians-feel-this-pandemic-has-united-them-americans-not-so-much.html

 

Not making a personal comment - this is up for discussion. But I do feel that the virus is much more divisive down south than up here in Canada. Interesting surveys.

[JohnnyBlaze]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/08/27/a-majority-of-canadians-feel-this-pandemic-has-united-them-americans-not-so-much.html

 

Not making a personal comment - this is up for discussion. But I do feel that the virus is much more divisive down south than up here in Canada. Interesting surveys.

 

Commenting on the color of the sky would be a divisive topic for Americans.

[goose]

The chart is kind of meaningless in that with medical advancements today of course Covid is down the list. If Covid occurred in the 14th century the death toll would have been way higher.

Which of those shown was in the 1400s?

 

 

In terms of numbers, the most comparable to COVID are the '57 Asian Flu and the '68 Hong Kong Flu. One could also consider how much better we are at testing/tracking a virus, which would likely result in greater numbers of identified cases.

[Nova Carmina]

The chart is kind of meaningless in that with medical advancements today of course Covid is down the list. If Covid occurred in the 14th century the death toll would have been way higher.

Which of those shown was in the 1400s?

 

 

In terms of numbers, the most comparable to COVID are the '57 Asian Flu and the '68 Hong Kong Flu. One could also consider how much better we are at testing/tracking a virus, which would likely result in greater numbers of identified cases.

 

Not to be pedantic (uh, dude?), the 14th century would be the 1300s, which was prime Black Death era.

 

As you were.

[JohnnyBlaze]

I may be taking a bit chance, but I don't have much of a choice. Taking my car to dealer service for some recall initiated repair, and other maintenance. Will be in a customer waiting room for a while, if I'm not on the lot looking for a new vehicle. Should be interesting.

 

Go to the lot -- it'll be safer and more interesting, if possibly more expensive. Of course, I don't know how hot it is down your way, so maybe the AC is worth it!

He’s in FL, like me. Trust me, you don’t want to go without A/C down here.

 

http://youtu.be/eNnr60_UZtg

[jamie]

I tested positive the other day, as expected because my dad and sister did, but i'm pretty sure the worst of it is over. right now i just feel like i have a head cold. on tuesday i felt like garbage! chills, fever, cough, migraine, body aches, everything. i'm glad that's behind me now. i can't go back to work until myself and everyone in my household has been symptom free for at least 3 days and when i get a doctor's note.

[invisible airwave]

Hanks, Banderas and now The Rock. It already took John Prine and the singer of Fountains Of Wayne. Screw this year and the anti intellectual Karens and covidiots.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iim4dsiG1AE

Edited September 3, 2020 by invisible airwave

[jamie]

i've been symptom free for 4 days! i have a doctor's appointment tomorrow so hopefully she'll give me the ok to go back to work!

[treeduck]

i've been symptom free for 4 days! i have a doctor's appointment tomorrow so hopefully she'll give me the ok to go back to work!

What were all your symptoms?

[treeduck]

[jamie]

i've been symptom free for 4 days! i have a doctor's appointment tomorrow so hopefully she'll give me the ok to go back to work!

What were all your symptoms?

fever, body aches, chest pressure/pain, cough, sore throat, fatigue, headaches/migraines. the whole 9 yards. it was not fun!

[treeduck]

i've been symptom free for 4 days! i have a doctor's appointment tomorrow so hopefully she'll give me the ok to go back to work!

What were all your symptoms?

fever, body aches, chest pressure/pain, cough, sore throat, fatigue, headaches/migraines. the whole 9 yards. it was not fun!

What about shortness of breath due to phlegm??

[invisible airwave]

 

 

Corona is a thief in the temple.

 

Now Robert Pattinson has it. He's redeemed himself for Twilight in indies like Rover and Map Of The Stars. Don't know how he'll be as Batman. Can't be as bad as Clooney.