The consensus on John Rutsey's departure?

[zepphead]

We will never know the 100% true facts ..... but we are all on this forum today because it did happen!!!

[goose]

It just pisses me off that they call it firing. It's not like the guy f***ed up and they had to cut him loose.

 

In a way...he did f**k up. He evidently wouldn't hold back when it came to the partying, even though he had the health issues. Not surprising, he was in his early 20's and did not yet know that he was "only immortal for a limited time".

 

Would things have been different had he taken care of himself? Possibly. Inevitably though, I'm sure the musical differences would have eventually marked the end for John in any case.

That's my understanding, that there was real disagreement on the musical direction for the band. Listen to the Rutsey version of Best I Can and you can hear how, while he's certainly competent, his style is limited for where the other two seemed to want to go.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqTOGurxtqw

[taurus]

It just pisses me off that they call it firing. It's not like the guy f***ed up and they had to cut him loose.

 

It also sounds like he let the band down at crunch time. He was considered the band's lyricist and when it came to writing lyrics for the first album, apparently he came down with a bad case of writer's block and Geddy had to do some Fancy Dancing and whip up some words

 

So health/partying/lack of interest in prog/backing out of lyric writing sounds like there was sufficient grounds to part ways.

[RushFanForever]

John Rutsey may be remembered as sort of Rush's version of Pete Best.

 

Rutsey wasn't in the 'best' shape health wise, which would've been a hindrance on playing the drums at his 'best' with touring.

 

I wonder if the RUSH song 'Best I Can', might be about Pete Best.

[Maverick]

It just pisses me off that they call it firing. It's not like the guy f***ed up and they had to cut him loose.

 

Would it make your little feelers calm down if they had said "had to replace" or "had to let him go?"

[RushFanForever]

This is cool that Maverick and Goose are both commenting on this thread.

[Relayer2112]

My guess -- and this is just a guess based on everything we've read, no inside info -- is that management pushed for a change because of John's health, Geddy and Alex signed off on it because of musical differences, and John was disappointed in the short term but inevitably would have been headed that way eventually due to a combination of those two factors. As with most of these things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the different versions that are out there.

 

I think this is probably closest to the truth. Although I'd like to think that the band was behind these decisions, they would have been barely 21 at the time. They were more worried about their playing and partying than they were about the long term sustainability of the band. They were making money playing their instruments and hired someone specifically to make those tough decisions. I'm guessing Ray is the only one who truly knows what went down with John.

 

I'm sure the band doesn't like to think that someone was fired solely because they had health issues, which is why a musical differences spin has been put on it (and I'm sure those differences were indeed there). In reality, I can't think of anything more detrimental to a young band than having someone who can't hold up to the rigors of traveling and playing anywhere, anytime.

 

I'm still wondering if not mentioning him at the RRHOF was just an oversight or intentional.

[treeduck]

He'll be back to reclaim his drum stool when the zombie apocalypse is nigh!

[Weatherman]

Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. .....

 

Please explain.

 

Some thing I read a few years ago...might have been an excerpt of Sammy Hagar's book. He said that Ray was looking to get a 'better singer' for Rush about the time he joined VH.

 

Honestly, Rush's songs would've sounded better with Sammy. I like his voice a lot. Though I do have trouble imagining him singing some of Neil's lyrics: "Everybody got to deviate from the norm"

But what the hell was up with Ray Daniels and Ged? Didn't he actually fire Ged in the early days? Then you're saying he tried to get Ged replaced AFTER they just had massive AOR success with MP?

 

Anyways, Ged's studio vocals got better as time went on, so at least there's that.

[GeddysMullet]

Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. .....

 

Please explain.

 

Some thing I read a few years ago...might have been an excerpt of Sammy Hagar's book. He said that Ray was looking to get a 'better singer' for Rush about the time he joined VH.

 

Honestly, Rush's songs would've sounded better with Sammy. I like his voice a lot. Though I do have trouble imagining him singing some of Neil's lyrics: "Everybody got to deviate from the norm"

But what the hell was up with Ray Daniels and Ged? Didn't he actually fire Ged in the early days? Then you're saying he tried to get Ged replaced AFTER they just had massive AOR success with MP?

 

Anyways, Ged's studio vocals got better as time went on, so at least there's that.

 

BITE YOUR TONGUE!

 

 

[JohnRogers]

We will never know the 100% true facts ..... but we are all on this forum today because it did happen!!!

Exactly, the rest is just trivia.

 

Who the frack is/was Lindy Young?

[GeddysMullet]

We will never know the 100% true facts ..... but we are all on this forum today because it did happen!!!

Exactly, the rest is just trivia.

 

Who the frack is/was Lindy Young?

 

Lindy Young is Mrs Geddy Lee's brother.

[Fordgalaxy]

I'm not sure why any band member would get a mention at a huge awards ceremony when they were a member for one album out of 19 and only the first one. Had he been on Moving Pictures or Permanent Waves, maybe.

[JohnnyBlaze]

My guess -- and this is just a guess based on everything we've read, no inside info -- is that management pushed for a change because of John's health, Geddy and Alex signed off on it because of musical differences, and John was disappointed in the short term but inevitably would have been headed that way eventually due to a combination of those two factors. As with most of these things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the different versions that are out there.

 

My guess is that it was entirely a health issue and that the “musical differences” bit is convenient to say. That is, “He certainly had health issues that we were more than concerned about. He wouldn’t have been able to tour plus ((anyway)) there were musical differences which played some part in the decision.” <——quote from my imagination in which you can insert Geddy or Alex’s voice

[chemistry1973]

I like Rutsey’s drumming, but he wasn’t that good a drummer.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a conversation about switching him out for a better - if not healthier - player.

Edited June 23, 2020 by chemistry1973

[Entre_Perpetuo]

Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. .....

 

Please explain.

 

Some thing I read a few years ago...might have been an excerpt of Sammy Hagar's book. He said that Ray was looking to get a 'better singer' for Rush about the time he joined VH.

 

Honestly, Rush's songs would've sounded better with Sammy. I like his voice a lot. Though I do have trouble imagining him singing some of Neil's lyrics: "Everybody got to deviate from the norm"

But what the hell was up with Ray Daniels and Ged? Didn't he actually fire Ged in the early days? Then you're saying he tried to get Ged replaced AFTER they just had massive AOR success with MP?

 

Anyways, Ged's studio vocals got better as time went on, so at least there's that.

 

Oh man I do not agree with that first statement. Sammy's a great singer, sure, but he would've been all wrong for Rush. He's got too much weight in his voice, he couldn't pull off the nerdiness factor needed for Neil's lyrics and some of the weirder melodies. Can you imagine Sammy Hagar singing The Trees? or Countdown? No way, man. lol

 

All I know about Ray and Ged is when Ged said on Beyond The Lighted Stage that Ray fired him early on, Ray said that wasn't true. Then a few years later in Time Stand Still, when it was brought up to Ray again, he just asked why everyone kept bringing it up, but he didn't deny doing it.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Entre_Perpetuo

[Lurkst]

Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. .....

 

Please explain.

 

Some thing I read a few years ago...might have been an excerpt of Sammy Hagar's book. He said that Ray was looking to get a 'better singer' for Rush about the time he joined VH.

 

I really really really can't believe this was the case!

 

[Lurkst]

John Rutsey may be remembered as sort of Rush's version of Pete Best.

 

Maybe if The Beatles had replaced Pete with John Lennon it would've been a more accurate comparison.

 

The Beatles' would likely have had an identical career if Pete had stayed.

Rush would almost certainly not have if John remained their drummer.

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Lurkst

[Lurkst]

I recently discovered this interview with Neil where he is asked about Rutsey straight off the bat. I didn't recall ever hearing him talk about John so it was quite a surprise!

 

 

[ST3V]

I recently discovered this interview with Neil where he is asked about Rutsey straight off the bat. I didn't recall ever hearing him talk about John so it was quite a surprise!

 

http://youtu.be/URfDibFTlEY

 

I didnt even know that Rutsey and the guys still talked after his departure, and here is Neil saying he saw him just a week before this interview!

Very interesting stuff

Edited June 23, 2020 by ST3V

[Relayer2112]

I recently discovered this interview with Neil where he is asked about Rutsey straight off the bat. I didn't recall ever hearing him talk about John so it was quite a surprise!

 

http://youtu.be/URfDibFTlEY

 

I'll need to give that a listen. I think it's well documented that at least Alex had stayed in contact with John during the 80's, mainly because they lived nearby each other and went to the same gym to work out. I doubt that either the Rush camp or the John camp went "out of their way" to stay in contact otherwise.

 

I wonder if John received any royalties from the first album? I don't believe he was listed as a songwriter.

[Relayer2112]

I'm not sure why any band member would get a mention at a huge awards ceremony when they were a member for one album out of 19 and only the first one. Had he been on Moving Pictures or Permanent Waves, maybe.

 

Because he was on that first album and helped them develop their chops in the early years (and served as the front man in those early years). I can see if the band had 10 past members over the years that nothing would be said, but he's the only other member of the band who appears on record. It was wrong not to mention him. Perhaps one of Alex's "Blahs" could have been a "John".

[Lurkst]

I recently discovered this interview with Neil where he is asked about Rutsey straight off the bat. I didn't recall ever hearing him talk about John so it was quite a surprise!

 

http://youtu.be/URfDibFTlEY

 

I didnt even know that Rutsey and the guys still talked after his departure, and here is Neil saying he saw him just a week before this interview!

Very interesting stuff

 

It's mentioned in the "Wandering The Face..." book that John hung out backstage with the band at the Toronto show on the Presto tour, presumably that's the occasion Neil is talking about here.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Lurkst

[Relayer2112]

I recently discovered this interview with Neil where he is asked about Rutsey straight off the bat. I didn't recall ever hearing him talk about John so it was quite a surprise!

 

http://youtu.be/URfDibFTlEY

 

I didnt even know that Rutsey and the guys still talked after his departure, and here is Neil saying he saw him just a week before this interview!

Very interesting stuff

 

It's mentioned in the "Wandering The Face..." book that John hung out backstage with the band at the Toronto show on the Presto tour, presumably that's the occasion Neil is talking about here.

 

This is a good interview...it just about gets cringe-worthy with the questions related to John and I can tell that Neil wants the line of questioning to move on to other things. Luckily the interviewer doesn't dwell on it for too long.

[staunchally]

Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. .....

 

Please explain.

 

Some thing I read a few years ago...might have been an excerpt of Sammy Hagar's book. He said that Ray was looking to get a 'better singer' for Rush about the time he joined VH.

 

"Why can't women go to stonings Mom?"

 

"Because it's written!! That's why!!!"