Why Test for Echo failed so miserably

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (kbomb106 @ Nov 24 2011, 10:21 AM)

I wouldn't say everyone would agree.  TFE peaked on the (US) charts at #5.  Compare that to Signals, which only hit 10, Moving Pictures, which hit 3, PeW, which hit 4, and 2112, which only hit 61.  While you may not have liked it, apparently some people did.

You need to know those figures mean nothing. It just means that they shipped and/or sold a lot of records due to demand that first week, and there are tons of factors that could determine the album placement like what else was competition that week, how long people have waited between albums or a whole lot of other meaningless factors. Often an album's placement has more to do with demand based on the success of the previous album.

 

What's more important is what happens with the album in the next few weeks. If it starts at #5 and 3 weeks later it's #68, well, you see what I mean.

 

Also, it doesn't mean people actually like or love those albums more just because they open with a high placement in the charts. 2112 sold over 3 million copies in the U.S. T4E didn't sell even 1 million, and I'd be willing to bet money that 2112 today sells at a faster pace that T4E does. That's because it's considered a far better album.

 

If you want to truly know where albums rank by a wide spectrum of fans, it's here:

 

http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/rush

 

Test For Echo is actually their lowest rated album, followed VERY closely by VT.

Edited November 24, 2011 by rushgoober

[Del_Duio]

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 23 2011, 10:26 PM)

So the next time you're listening to Virtuality, Half the World, Dog Years, of The Color of Right and are thinking to youself blame the late great Freddie Gruber

Half the World is great, lyrics included.

 

Virtuality was borderline embarrasing lyrically, even back in '96. Too bad because the music is soooo killer.

 

P.S: Any album with Time and Motion and Driven is still a good album.

[LyndseyG]

I like Test For Echo.

[Tony R]

I think every album since Power Windows has been rubbish so why single out T4E for special attention?

[Drummerrobin]

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 23 2011, 10:26 PM)

So, as we all know, Test for Echo is one of Rush's worst efforts if not their worst.

Nope that'd be Roll The Bones

 

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 23 2011, 10:26 PM)

The question has always been why, particularly coming on the heels of Counterparts, which, obviously, is Rush's best album since Moving Pictures

You mean since Hold Your Fire?...

 

Funny how opinions work

 

As for the lyrics, I agree they're not Neil's strongest and yes, it was probably because he was focusing heavily on drumming at the time. Hardly fair to blame Gruber though as it was Neil's decision - it's not as if Gruber forced Neil to start over. The lyrics don't really bother me though and while they might not be the most inspired, I've never found them intrusive either. Good music always makes more of an impression on me than good lyrics and most of the music on TFE I find very likeable. I'd definitely take the album over Presto and RTB.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Drummerrobin

[Union 5-3992]

I love the title track on this album. And I can't resist listening to Resist whenever I shuffle to it on my Walkman.

[maxdistortion]

I would agree with those that are saying the album is inconsistent.

 

Its a personal favourite of mine because its in my opinion a stark contrast to the overtly poppy 80's material. Behind the shine and gloss theres some great songs from that era-- Marathon, Time Stand Still...they sounded better live to me than on record.

 

Test for Echo appeals to me because Rush sounds darker, moodier..yet Resist , Color of Right and Limbo, as meh as the lyrics are, are the among the happiest sounding songs i've ever heard them write.

 

 

Time and Motion is such an eerie track, it is rather disjointed but in a way that works. My favourite part of that song is actually Alex's guitar solo. You'd think he fell over on his back halfway through, yet it still sounds composed. Its rare we get to hear him like that.

 

Test For Echo was always a good song to me, I've always loved Driven especialy for Geddy's solo live. That one gets my vote if they were to ever play a T4E song again (unlikely...)

 

Half the World I'm iffy on. I personally like it ,but can see why people think its subpar. Its at least comparable to 90 percent of whats on Snakes and Arrows, not counting Far Cry and the two instrumentals. I'm not big on the lyrical content either but it is a very mellow and catchy tune.

 

I would agree this isn't neil's best work. Can't blame him for exploring the internet theme on Virtuality, even if it does sound ridiculous 15 years later.

 

I dono what the hell to say about Dog Years.

 

That being said, T4E is definately an experimental period for them. Some of it worked some of it didn't, and mabe this album didn't particularly age well either, at least when compared to their earlier works. But i'll take this one over Vapor Trails and conversely over Roll the Bones anyday.

 

 

[An Enemy Without]

When I first listened to the album it was like having a paper bag full of dog shit left flaming on my front porch. In terms of a disease, it's been getting progressively worse, from a mild cough to a flesh-eating, face-melting, testes-shriveling bacterial infection. Hint: it starts with the ears.

[Weakly Criminal]

Too funny. Failed? TFE went gold of course. It's different just as every RUSH album is different. If it's not your cup of tea dont listen to it. The title track gets old quick for me, but otherwise it's in my regular rotation.

 

TFE is a great album, and Dog Years is demented genius. How RUSH fans fail to get what they're going for with this song amazes me, particularly on the heels of Anagram (for Mongo). Ged's dog like yelping might have been a clue.

[Weakly Criminal]

QUOTE (Del_Duio @ Nov 24 2011, 12:00 PM)

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 23 2011, 10:26 PM) So the next time you're listening to Virtuality, Half the World, Dog Years, of The Color of Right and are thinking to youself  blame the late great Freddie Gruber Half the World is great, lyrics included.   Virtuality was borderline embarrasing lyrically, even back in '96. Too bad because the music is soooo killer.   P.S: Any album with Time and Motion and Driven is still a good album. That.

[vital signz]

T4E was the album that took me the absolute longest period of time to digest.

 

I found the lyrics to be less enticing. I just couldn't digest it for the longest time period. I did, however, finally "get it", and now can enjoy listening to it.

 

Vapor Trails was the second, only because the mix was so bad I always kept focusing on the mix sound of the album instead of the music....it was done so badly it distracts me from enjoying the songs.

 

I remember playing T4E over and over again, liking thoroughly the title song, which I think is one of Rush's best songs, and Resist, but waiting for everything else to click, and it just wouldn't.

 

The songs on the album I always felt had portions of them with real balls, then some portions that just became fluff and soft and weak.

 

Still, it is a record that blows most bands' productions away, it is just not a fav of mine from Rush.

 

 

[Majestyk]

QUOTE

The question has always been why, particularly coming on the heels of Counterparts, which, obviously, is Rush's best album since Moving Pictures.

 

Close but i would say it's their best since Power Windows. Although perhaps it's their best 'hard rocking' album since MP. I hated every album after PW, until Counterparts.

[metaldad]

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 23 2011, 10:26 PM)

So, as we all know, Test for Echo is one of Rush's worst efforts if not their worst

Not me. I Do know I think HYF and S&A are Shit albums that i use to put my drink on . I never had a prob with T4E and i think Neil kicks ass on it.

[Pags]

I think the OP's assumption that T4E is one of the band's worst albums is what I want to comment on the most. I can understand the opinion or perception that T4E is a failure to most, but I think the OP (and many others) would be surprised at how many of us love this album. For me, T4E is not a failure. Rather it's one of Rush's more obscure albums like COS was, and kicks ass. It wasn't created to be as mainstream sounding as Counterparts was (my opinion). So it's not an easy album for the masses to accept, whether it be musically or lyrically. But there are a core bunch who were able to latch onto it, and find it awesome. I think the lyrics are killer! Check out the lyrics to the title track, Driven, Half the World, Time and Motion, Totem, Resist, and Carve Away the Stone. They are stellar. And while I agree the lyrics to Dog Years are a challenge to like, the line "I'd rather be a tortoise from Galapagos, or a span of geological time" is genius. Ask anyone above the age of 38 how that one line alone resonates with us. The message of that song is how fast time goes by. You blink your eyes and it's like 7 years went by. It's true.

 

Musically, the overall sound of the album is somewhat dark, eerie, and cold. Some people can match albums to seasons, and this is a late Fall/early Winter album. The kind of days that leave a chill down your spine where you can't warm up or stay dry in the cold rain. That's T4E to me. There's not a lot of warmth or comfort in this album. But it's still awesome to me.

 

The idea that Neil kind of ignored the lyrical side of things when putting together T4E is something I can't agree with. He had a lot to say on the album, and said it well.

[EmotionDetector]

Chalk me up as yet another that DISAGREES with the OP.

 

TFE is a SOLID album!

 

First off, it has absolutely solid songs like 'Time and Motion', 'Test For Echo', 'Driven', 'Totem' and 'Resist'. All really awesome songs.

 

Yes, 'Limbo' may not be all that complex in comparison with their past instrumentals, but I still really dig it. It's a cool little track with some great bass and drum parts specifically.

 

I mean, maybe I'm crazy...but I've never had an issue with the lyrics, especially on a song like 'Virtuality' that gets sh*t on by almost everyone. It's honestly one of my favourite songs on the album (probably Top 3-4). The music is powerful, great riffs and drumming...I don't have any issue with it.

 

Yeah, I can see why maybe people think that 'Dog Years' has some questionable lyrical content, but I've never taken it seriously, which I think (like I Think I'm Going Bald) is the point of the song. Besides, I think the music is great.

 

Oh, and production-wise...fantastic. Peter Collins once again proves he knows what he's doing. His albums are among the best as far as overall sound goes IMO.

 

Overall, TFE is a great album. It's always been a head-scratcher for me as far as how many people seem to have a problem with it.

[goose]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 25 2011, 08:52 AM)

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 23 2011, 10:26 PM) So, as we all know, Test for Echo is one of Rush's worst efforts if not their worst Not me. I Do know I think HYF and S&A are Shit albums that i use to put my drink on . I never had a prob with T4E and i think Neil kicks ass on it. Neil does indeed kick ass on T4E!

[goose]

QUOTE (jnoble @ Nov 24 2011, 11:49 AM)

I've always liked Half the World even if it wasn't the hit song the band seemed to think it should've been.

I chuckle at what the RUSH boys think will be a hit. They thought "Countdown" - a plodding, synth-driven song about the space shuttle - would be a hit, too!

 

Gotta love 'em!

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (goose @ Nov 25 2011, 10:16 AM)

QUOTE (jnoble @ Nov 24 2011, 11:49 AM) I've always liked Half the World even if it wasn't the hit song the band seemed to think it should've been. I chuckle at what the RUSH boys think will be a hit. They thought "Countdown" - a plodding, synth-driven song about the space shuttle - would be a hit, too!   Gotta love 'em! It's Rush's version of a R.E.M. song. Imagine Michael Stipe singing it. It would work.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (goose @ Nov 25 2011, 08:16 AM)

QUOTE (jnoble @ Nov 24 2011, 11:49 AM) I've always liked Half the World even if it wasn't the hit song the band seemed to think it should've been. I chuckle at what the RUSH boys think will be a hit. They thought "Countdown" - a plodding, synth-driven song about the space shuttle - would be a hit, too!   Gotta love 'em! The main difference being that Countdown is actually a great song, great enough to be a massive hit, but sometimes the general public is pretty immune to quality.   Half the World never stood a change - it's ok, but it's repetitive as f*ck. Like a lot of songs on T4E, the concepts Neil is trying to convey in the lyrics are admirable, but the execution just comes off as clunky or awkward, and in some songs just downright embarrassing.

[Pags]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 25 2011, 10:30 AM)

QUOTE (goose @ Nov 25 2011, 08:16 AM) QUOTE (jnoble @ Nov 24 2011, 11:49 AM) I've always liked Half the World even if it wasn't the hit song the band seemed to think it should've been. I chuckle at what the RUSH boys think will be a hit. They thought "Countdown" - a plodding, synth-driven song about the space shuttle - would be a hit, too!   Gotta love 'em! The main difference being that Countdown is actually a great song, great enough to be a massive hit, but sometimes the general public is pretty immune to quality.   Half the World never stood a change - it's ok, but it's repetitive as f*ck. Like a lot of songs on T4E, the concepts Neil is trying to convey in the lyrics are admirable, but the execution just comes off as clunky or awkward, and in some songs just downright embarrassing. What's your definition of a massive hit? I remember when Half The World drove me crazy because every time I turned the radio on, it was playing. Same thing happened with Cold Fire. Both songs were actually over-played, imo. This was in the New York area. I don't know about anywhere else.

[An Enemy Without]

T4E is to any other Rush album as Bon Jovi is to any other musician.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Pags @ Nov 25 2011, 08:33 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 25 2011, 10:30 AM) QUOTE (goose @ Nov 25 2011, 08:16 AM) QUOTE (jnoble @ Nov 24 2011, 11:49 AM) I've always liked Half the World even if it wasn't the hit song the band seemed to think it should've been. I chuckle at what the RUSH boys think will be a hit. They thought "Countdown" - a plodding, synth-driven song about the space shuttle - would be a hit, too!   Gotta love 'em! The main difference being that Countdown is actually a great song, great enough to be a massive hit, but sometimes the general public is pretty immune to quality.   Half the World never stood a change - it's ok, but it's repetitive as f*ck. Like a lot of songs on T4E, the concepts Neil is trying to convey in the lyrics are admirable, but the execution just comes off as clunky or awkward, and in some songs just downright embarrassing. What's your definition of a massive hit? I remember when Half The World drove me crazy because every time I turned the radio on, it was playing. Same thing happened with Cold Fire. Both songs were actually over-played, imo. This was in the New York area. I don't know about anywhere else. I might have heard Cold Fire on the radio once. The only song I really remember being played at all was the title track.   Really, my main memory of that album was wondering if they could pull off another Counterparts and continue the upward swing they achieved after the disappointing Presto and RTB. Turns out they couldn't. I listened a few times and was unmoved. Every once in a while I'll give it another try, but my opinion remains unchanged.

[Pags]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 25 2011, 10:38 AM)

QUOTE (Pags @ Nov 25 2011, 08:33 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 25 2011, 10:30 AM) QUOTE (goose @ Nov 25 2011, 08:16 AM) QUOTE (jnoble @ Nov 24 2011, 11:49 AM) I've always liked Half the World even if it wasn't the hit song the band seemed to think it should've been. I chuckle at what the RUSH boys think will be a hit. They thought "Countdown" - a plodding, synth-driven song about the space shuttle - would be a hit, too!   Gotta love 'em! The main difference being that Countdown is actually a great song, great enough to be a massive hit, but sometimes the general public is pretty immune to quality.   Half the World never stood a change - it's ok, but it's repetitive as f*ck. Like a lot of songs on T4E, the concepts Neil is trying to convey in the lyrics are admirable, but the execution just comes off as clunky or awkward, and in some songs just downright embarrassing. What's your definition of a massive hit? I remember when Half The World drove me crazy because every time I turned the radio on, it was playing. Same thing happened with Cold Fire. Both songs were actually over-played, imo. This was in the New York area. I don't know about anywhere else. I might have heard Cold Fire on the radio once. The only song I really remember being played at all was the title track.   Really, my main memory of that album was wondering if they could pull off another Counterparts and continue the upward swing they achieved after the disappointing Presto and RTB. Turns out they couldn't. I listened a few times and was unmoved. Every once in a while I'll give it another try, but my opinion remains unchanged. I don't know why these two songs were so popular around the NY area. Songs like Stick it Out and Test for Echo also got a fair amount of radio play, but nothing off the cliff, and nowhere near the amount of air time Cold Fire or Half the World got. I clearly remember being sick of hearing both of them because they were always on (during their respective release dates).

[circumstantial tree]

Once Counterparts came out, Rush was nearly non-existant as far as I was concerned. I had moved on to other musical interests. I wouldn't show any more interest in the band until Geddy's solo album came out. I got Counterparts and Test for Echo when they were released but each got very little play in my player.

 

I mean, I bought the Cranberries first album the same time as Counterparts and the Cranberries got a lot of play.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Nov 25 2011, 11:54 AM)

Once Counterparts came out, Rush was nearly non-existant as far as I was concerned. I had moved on to other musical interests. I wouldn't show any more interest in the band until Geddy's solo album came out. I got Counterparts and Test for Echo when they were released but each got very little play in my player. I mean, I bought the Cranberries first album the same time as Counterparts and the Cranberries got a lot of play.

Sorry, but COUNTERPARTS is awesome! End of story!