Caravan & Far Cry

[Tigershark2112]

Both songs are freaking awesome and any Rush fan that disagrees can kiss my

 

Classics. Hands down. I'll be listening to both these songs the rest of my life, and that's how I know.

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (lerxt1990 @ Jul 26 2010, 10:22 PM)

Far Cry to me is a well put together tune with (egad) an actual *melody* thats (IMO) catchy and a good groove. I really dig that tune.

It has one of their best choruses EVAH!

 

One day I feel I'm on top of the world

And the next it's falling in on me

I can get back on

I can get back on

One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel

And the next it's rolling over me

I can get back on

I can get back on

 

It's catchy as all hell!

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Jul 26 2010, 10:09 PM)

QUOTE (lerxt1990 @ Jul 26 2010, 10:22 PM) Far Cry to me is a well put together tune with (egad) an actual *melody* thats (IMO) catchy and a good groove.  I really dig that tune. It has one of their best choruses EVAH!   One day I feel I'm on top of the world And the next it's falling in on me I can get back on I can get back on One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel And the next it's rolling over me I can get back on I can get back on   It's catchy as all hell! The chorus of Caravan can NOT match up to that, and Caravan has almost no melody. Far Cry by a hundred million miles.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 24 2010, 04:25 PM)

QUOTE (New World Kid @ Jul 24 2010, 04:16 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 24 2010, 06:00 PM) QUOTE (shaun3701 @ Jul 24 2010, 03:36 PM) Caravan could be considered a classic. I've never understood the appeal of Far Cry, it's a mediocre song IMO. Sounds like a B-side off of Vapor Trails or something. I would argue that Far Cry is better than every song on VT put together... Well yeah. Playing all 13 tracks at the same time would sound awful. Maybe this explains why you don't like Vapor Trails     headache

[Your_Lion]

QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jul 27 2010, 05:57 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 24 2010, 04:25 PM) QUOTE (New World Kid @ Jul 24 2010, 04:16 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 24 2010, 06:00 PM) QUOTE (shaun3701 @ Jul 24 2010, 03:36 PM) Caravan could be considered a classic. I've never understood the appeal of Far Cry, it's a mediocre song IMO. Sounds like a B-side off of Vapor Trails or something. I would argue that Far Cry is better than every song on VT put together... Well yeah. Playing all 13 tracks at the same time would sound awful. Maybe this explains why you don't like Vapor Trails     headache hmm..that's not bad they should play it like that next tour

[metaldad]

QUOTE (Sussossus @ Jul 23 2010, 01:01 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 22 2010, 10:32 PM) Far Cry - yes, absolutely a classic Caravan - I feel just the opposite. I agree. I think Goobs is just afraid of Metal Why ? I don't know.

[metaldad]

Let me just say that i am already sick of Far Cry and i wish it would go away

[H. P. L.]

I've always thought that a "classic", not just a rock song but a movie or a book, is a work that manages to capture a tiny bit of its times, the spirit, the culture, the sound.

That said, I strongly believe Far Cry and Caravan to be "classics": they have the sound of these times, the power and the wisdom of keen observers.

For me, they already are classics, but the last word, as always, belongs to the newer generations. They will decide.

[Captain Avatar]

Caravan and BU2B are the best songs they've released since Counterparts, as far as I'm concerned.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jul 27 2010, 07:41 AM)

QUOTE (Sussossus @ Jul 23 2010, 01:01 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 22 2010, 10:32 PM) Far Cry - yes, absolutely a classic Caravan - I feel just the opposite. I agree. I think Goobs is just afraid of Metal Why ? I don't know.   I was into heavy metal for years in the early/mid 80's. I saw Ozzy, Judas Preist, Iron Maiden, The Scorpions, Kiss, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Dio, Van Halen, Rainbow, Def Leppard, Twisted Sister, Rush, etc. - and many of those groups I saw more than once. I know all of them aren't metal, but they're at least hard rock.   I dunno, I guess for the most part I kind of grew out of it and lost interest, especially when Metallica, Megadeath and speed metal came on the scene - it was just too hard and fast just for the sake of being hard and fast.   Still, I don't mind a lot of intense heaviness - I love Hendrix, Blue Cheer, High Tide and still several of the groups listed above. A crunching, heavy riff is all well and fine, but I need me some melody. It's kind of like DT's Scenes - it's often a great album, but sometimes they go into those intense rapid fire heavy metal riffs and it just seems kind of pointless - anyone can do that - I need something with a little more substance I guess...

[greg2112]

QUOTE (Sussossus @ Jul 23 2010, 01:01 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 22 2010, 10:32 PM) Far Cry - yes, absolutely a classic Caravan - I feel just the opposite. Me too

[WIDE-ANGLE WATCHER]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 27 2010, 10:05 AM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jul 27 2010, 07:41 AM) QUOTE (Sussossus @ Jul 23 2010, 01:01 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 22 2010, 10:32 PM) Far Cry - yes, absolutely a classic Caravan - I feel just the opposite. I agree. I think Goobs is just afraid of Metal Why ? I don't know.   I was into heavy metal for years in the early/mid 80's. I saw Ozzy, Judas Preist, Iron Maiden, The Scorpions, Kiss, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Dio, Van Halen, Rainbow, Def Leppard, Twisted Sister, Rush, etc. - and many of those groups I saw more than once. I know all of them aren't metal, but they're at least hard rock.   I dunno, I guess for the most part I kind of grew out of it and lost interest, especially when Metallica, Megadeath and speed metal came on the scene - it was just too hard and fast just for the sake of being hard and fast.   Still, I don't mind a lot of intense heaviness - I love Hendrix, Blue Cheer, High Tide and still several of the groups listed above. A crunching, heavy riff is all well and fine, but I need me some melody. It's kind of like DT's Scenes - it's often a great album, but sometimes they go into those intense rapid fire heavy metal riffs and it just seems kind of pointless - anyone can do that - I need something with a little more substance I guess... Well said Rushgoober   I am into some of the Heaviest Metal..... Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Dio, Deep Purple, Ozzy, Iron Maiden, Metallica, System of a Down, Rage Against The Machine....among others.....   Hard and Heavy is good....but you still need substance and style.   Fast and Loud is okay in my book......but it is not always enough.   That is why I like RUSH so much....they are....   Heavy, hard, fast, loud.....melodic, soft, off-beat and everything else.   EDIT....Oh yeah... Caravan and Far Cry are great.....but are not instant classics... imo....Classics take time....the great ones do not take long....we will see.

[metaldad]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 27 2010, 10:05 AM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jul 27 2010, 07:41 AM) QUOTE (Sussossus @ Jul 23 2010, 01:01 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 22 2010, 10:32 PM) Far Cry - yes, absolutely a classic Caravan - I feel just the opposite. I agree. I think Goobs is just afraid of Metal Why ? I don't know.   I was into heavy metal for years in the early/mid 80's. I saw Ozzy, Judas Preist, Iron Maiden, The Scorpions, Kiss, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Dio, Van Halen, Rainbow, Def Leppard, Twisted Sister, Rush, etc. - and many of those groups I saw more than once. I know all of them aren't metal, but they're at least hard rock.   I dunno, I guess for the most part I kind of grew out of it and lost interest, especially when Metallica, Megadeath and speed metal came on the scene - it was just too hard and fast just for the sake of being hard and fast.   Still, I don't mind a lot of intense heaviness - I love Hendrix, Blue Cheer, High Tide and still several of the groups listed above. A crunching, heavy riff is all well and fine, but I need me some melody. It's kind of like DT's Scenes - it's often a great album, but sometimes they go into those intense rapid fire heavy metal riffs and it just seems kind of pointless - anyone can do that - I need something with a little more substance I guess... Just bustin your balls. I know you don't like the Death/Thrash/Speed Metal . It's all good

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jul 28 2010, 01:55 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 27 2010, 10:05 AM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Jul 27 2010, 07:41 AM) QUOTE (Sussossus @ Jul 23 2010, 01:01 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 22 2010, 10:32 PM) Far Cry - yes, absolutely a classic Caravan - I feel just the opposite. I agree. I think Goobs is just afraid of Metal Why ? I don't know.   I was into heavy metal for years in the early/mid 80's. I saw Ozzy, Judas Preist, Iron Maiden, The Scorpions, Kiss, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Dio, Van Halen, Rainbow, Def Leppard, Twisted Sister, Rush, etc. - and many of those groups I saw more than once. I know all of them aren't metal, but they're at least hard rock.   I dunno, I guess for the most part I kind of grew out of it and lost interest, especially when Metallica, Megadeath and speed metal came on the scene - it was just too hard and fast just for the sake of being hard and fast.   Still, I don't mind a lot of intense heaviness - I love Hendrix, Blue Cheer, High Tide and still several of the groups listed above. A crunching, heavy riff is all well and fine, but I need me some melody. It's kind of like DT's Scenes - it's often a great album, but sometimes they go into those intense rapid fire heavy metal riffs and it just seems kind of pointless - anyone can do that - I need something with a little more substance I guess... Just bustin your balls. I know you don't like the Death/Thrash/Speed Metal . It's all good

[thelocator]

Give me a little refresher here becaue I'm drawing a total blank...What the relationship, the connection between Far Cry and Caravan and BU2B?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[losingit2k]

Are they instant Classics?

[thelocator]

QUOTE (losingit2k @ Aug 25 2010, 06:46 PM)

Are they instant Classics?

That's the question here? Whether tunes like these have any chance of becoming instant classics? But, I don't get why one selection from S&A is choosen, and mentioned alongside these two others singles...Were they just choosen at random to represent the modern era?

 

If that's the question, then the answer has to be 'no'...They're really 'good' songs, these tracks...as is pretty much everything coming from RUSH...Fine selections for 'singles'...but, I believe that a band's 'classic' material only comes along during its first decade of existence. This particular band's recording career begun in '74 and its classic era came to an end, roughly around '82/'84....

 

So, this theory of mine applies to Rush, for sure. All their Greatest Hits come between the first ten years...apart from two or three tracsks from Counterparts...But, I'll admit that it's a real 'loose' theory...More lie a 'general rule'...There's tons of flukes and anomalys all over the place which truly musses with the foundations of the theory....lol.

 

* But, I noticed someone else's addendum to this general rule above somewhere...Whether a song becomes 'part' of our collective POP culture consciousness is MAJORLY DEPENDENTupon whether or NOT these songs receive a high degree of 'radio airplay' at that pivotal moment of release...That is the MAIN INGREDIENT in the success formula/theory/rule of thumb.

 

People need to hear the song on that stinkin' device they call the radio...And they need to hear it often...The tune has to be pumped out on the airwaves and it has to reach us in settings where we're all jolly-like, like at beaches, bars and bar mitzvahs...The 'single' never needs to be a full-on 'hit' per se, but has to make some kinda dent on the Rock charts.

 

Only then will that song get played by other DJs, five, ten, twenty years down the road...EXAMPLE: The reason why we still only hear material from Sabbath's Paranoid album is because that was the only album that DJs choose to touch, all the way back in 1971...Only one song from the album prior to it, and possibly two other songs from the next two Sabbath outings have ever been afforded any kind of airplay on Classic Rock Radio...And, Sabbath has a ton of great music that could be given a huge degree of attention.

 

But, the decision on which Sabbath songs were/are acceptable to be played/heard on the radio was a thing which was decided during the first few years of the 1970's...SAME goes for any other band, during any other era...Why do we only hear selections from Jethro Tull's Aqualung release, when there are something like 19 JT studio albums?

 

The DJs who are spinning the discs at that moment when some potentially 'classic' album is first released, THOSE are the ones who will be the deciding factor on whether some track gets adopted by the masses, or whether that tune gets relegated to a significantly smaller group of worshippers...and 'underground' following...That's just how it goes, kids.

 

Then, there's some wierd in-between land of existence. Going back to the example of Jethro Tull...I became a huge fan of the band around 2000 and picked up many discs from the Remastered series...On those recordings, I found some songs that I distinctly remember hearing on the radio when I was just a wee kid...

 

 

There were Tull albums, which, when released, delivered singles to Classic Rock Radio, that were worthy enough to at least receive a certain degree of airplay from these DJs...They would play these singles over and over again for some 'X' duration of time...But, then, maybe a year or so later, the songs had been completely erased from the playlists...never to be played again, even at some much later date...Poof! Vanished.

 

WHAT THE F IS THIS? The 1980's were FULL of recordings that rendered forth a single or two that got played non-stop for some lengthy stretch of time...But, once that indescript tenure of time was over with, you'd NEVER hear that song played ever again. The was the F'n 80's!

 

Other crazy decisions come to mind now...There was plenty of interest in the new, 90's version of Anthrax when John Bush joined the band and they went in a different, more modern direction...Modern Rock Radio jumped all over the chance to play the newly pumped band...

 

A tremendous degree of airplay was given to the singles 'Only' and 'Room For One More'...AND, these songs are great examples of SONGS THAT HAVE broken the temporary-play barrier and have become permanent fixtureson the radio...These songs STILL receive a bunch of attention from a ton of different media outlets. Football games, movies, radio, video games...these particular songs have made the grade and become 'classic'.

 

But, Anthrax's next studio album was almost the complete 'mirror image' of the John Bush debut...It was absolutely FULL of catchy, accessible songs that could have easil been played just as much as the material from the prior album...

 

YET, something went wrong here...It was basically the same exact album that the band delivered, yet no one gave the material the time of day...The album received absolutely NO radio airplay from the stations here in New York, and thusly, no one knew crap about a really solid Anthrax release...

 

To my ears, it was almost the twin bro of the album which directly preceded it...Go figure. So, no more successful singles for Anthrax...Maybe if some DJ went and cued one of the songs up, the requests would have come flooding in to play the frikkin' thing...I dunno. Just seems reasonable.

 

* Above, someone said that Caravan and R2UB were the best songs since the 'Counterparts' material...I dunno about all that...But, I do know that I loved that '93 album when it came out...mainly because it was FULL of great and accessible songwriting, and once again portrayed the band as a 'Hard Rock Group'...a fact that wa no longer evident by the time 'Presto' had rolled around.

 

The radio programmers and managers are a fickle bunch...and for some strange, odd reason, they've been entrusted to decide what it is that becomes 'classic' and what gets pushed aside and forgotten.

 

 

 

 

[rushgoober]

locator, i think most people are defining "classic" here as what THEY consider to be a classic, not necessarily the world at large.

 

in that definition, far cry is definitely a classic to me, caravan is not.

[thelocator]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 25 2010, 09:44 PM)

locator, i think most people are defining "classic" here as what THEY consider to be a classic, not necessarily the world at large. in that definition, far cry is definitely a classic to me, caravan is not.

What are you trying to say, Goob, that I might have got a tad carried away with analyzing the entire definition and all applications of such said definition? Are you trying to say that I've spent too much time flying off on unrelated tangents here? Because, if you don't say it, I will. But, a lot of what I say here does make sense..And, is more than a little frustrating....But, you can always debate the meaning of the term 'sense'...In which sense 'is' really is?

 

 

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (thelocator @ Aug 25 2010, 11:45 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 25 2010, 09:44 PM) locator, i think most people are defining "classic" here as what THEY consider to be a classic, not necessarily the world at large. in that definition, far cry is definitely a classic to me, caravan is not. What are you trying to say, Goob, that I might have got a tad carried away with analyzing the entire definition and all applications of such said definition? Are you trying to say that I've spent too much time flying off on unrelated tangents here? Because, if you don't say it, I will. But, a lot of what I say here does make sense..And, is more than a little frustrating....But, you can always debate the meaning of the term 'sense'...In which sense 'is' really is?

[FoxxiStarr]

QUOTE (New World Kid @ Jul 24 2010, 10:23 PM)

Meh. "Classic" means what, exactly? Popular? In who's mind? Rush fans? Pop-Culture? Music Buffs? How far is the distance between calling a song a "Classic" and calling a band "Hall of Fame Worthy?" All I can say is, Far Cry and Caravan are classics in my CD Player/MP3 Player/Whatever.

Totally agree .. its subjective. To me Xanadu is a classic but then I know that's me probably peeking thru my rose coloured glasses. Doesn't really matter because TO ME at least it's a classic.

 

Horses for courses I guess.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 25 2010, 10:44 PM)

locator, i think most people are defining "classic" here as what THEY consider to be a classic, not necessarily the world at large. in that definition, far cry is definitely a classic to me, caravan is not.

I think most people here are defining "classic" as pertaining to either the history of music as a whole, or Rush's history. In most cases, probably the latter. "Spirit of Radio" is a classic Rush tune. So are "Limelight" and "Tom Sawyer." "Subdivisions" is another Rush classic.

 

I would define "Rush classic" as fitting at least one of the following criteria:

 

1. The song has an excellent chance of being played on every tour, or almost every tour, for as long as the band exists;

 

2. The song is played regularly on a classic rock radio station when it's time to play a Rush song;

 

3. The song is universally loved by Rush fans, even if it's not in the regular tour or radio rotations -- one of those songs where if someone says, "I don't like that song," everyone else is shocked. "Natural Science" and "Red Barchetta" are good examples.

 

Is "Far Cry" in that category? Too early to tell. I don't think it will qualify as a Rush classic. I like it, but I really don't see it being mentioned in the same breath as the above mentioned songs. Same for "Caravan" -- I like it, but it's a really quirky song, and not everyone has bought into it.

 

Time will tell.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Aug 26 2010, 09:33 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 25 2010, 10:44 PM) locator, i think most people are defining "classic" here as what THEY consider to be a classic, not necessarily the world at large. in that definition, far cry is definitely a classic to me, caravan is not. I think most people here are defining "classic" as pertaining to either the history of music as a whole, or Rush's history. In most cases, probably the latter. "Spirit of Radio" is a classic Rush tune. So are "Limelight" and "Tom Sawyer." "Subdivisions" is another Rush classic.   I would define "Rush classic" as fitting at least one of the following criteria:   1. The song has an excellent chance of being played on every tour, or almost every tour, for as long as the band exists;   2. The song is played regularly on a classic rock radio station when it's time to play a Rush song;   3. The song is universally loved by Rush fans, even if it's not in the regular tour or radio rotations -- one of those songs where if someone says, "I don't like that song," everyone else is shocked. "Natural Science" and "Red Barchetta" are good examples.   Is "Far Cry" in that category? Too early to tell. I don't think it will qualify as a Rush classic. I like it, but I really don't see it being mentioned in the same breath as the above mentioned songs. Same for "Caravan" -- I like it, but it's a really quirky song, and not everyone has bought into it.   Time will tell. That is a good breakdown of some criteria to look for when naming a song a "classic".   With that said though...I'm not sure any of these songs will hit a "classic" stage, at least not to the degree that songs like Tom Sawyer, TSOR, CTTH, or Limelight hit.   The reason I say this is because I surprisingly have been hearing Caravan on the radio quite a bit here (which is great), but for some reason, it doesn't sound like a radio "hit". Something about it...maybe the complexity?   I love the song...but it doesn't ring radio hit to me.   Now, do I think it will become a staple for future tours? Yes. But I mean, there probably aren't all that many tours left (unfortunately!). But while they continue touring, I think Caravan will be played.   As far as reputation amongst us fans, it seems to have been very well-received by most people, but most of us would probably not put it at the same level as songs like Natural Science or La Villa.   I think strictly from a radio perspective, Far Cry is definitely the most "radio-friendly" song. The main riff hooks you in, the lyrics are understandable and relatable to most people, and it has one of the catchiest choruses that they've done in ages. Instantly recognizable.   I always thought BU2B could be a radio-hit...almost better suited for it than Caravan, though the lyrics may be a reason why it doesn't appeal to the wider audience. But to me, it is catchier than Caravan, though not nearly as musically intense.   At the end of the day, none of these three songs will probably get much attention on classic rock stations once next year's release and tour are gone. Far Cry disappeared from radio a few months after S&A was released, and I expect that Caravan will follow suit, and might stick around until after CA is released, but that's it. BU2B most likely won't ever be released as a radio single.

[J2112YYZ]

I considered Far Cry an instant classic the first time I heard it. It just has the great signature Rush sound, hook and lyrics to it. I like Caravan but I don't consider it a classic. It's just a good Rush song as far as i'm conserned.

[ILSnwdog]

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Jul 23 2010, 10:20 AM)

What about One Little Victory?

Yes. I love OLV!

 

 

I think Caravan and Far Cry are great songs and definitely instant classics, but I don't know if they hold up to Freewill or Tom Sawyer. Perhaps they are as good as Big Money and New World Man.