fraroc Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Recently, I've been thinking about KISS' supposed final tour (which I've seen, the show they're putting on this tour is just incredible), and the whole big controversy and the accusations of the band using backing tracks. I couldn't help but be reminded of the few times during the Synth era and afterwards where Rush had music playing in the background that wasn't them. Whenever Rush did Grand Designs, the keyboard intro was pre-recorded. Rush performing Mission on the HYF tour, when Ged just presses a key down on one of the four midi controllers to trigger the opening organ chords when he could have easily played it on his own...Another example is Rush performing Where's My Thing live where Ged just steps on his Taurus Pedal once to trigger the keyboard parts. Clearly those parts weren't being played live, however I've never really notice people say anything about it though. I'm not even talking about criticism, just people mentioning the fact that Rush used samples. So for me, that kinda begs the question of were they the only band that was able to get away with using samples and backing tracks for certain keyboard parts completely unscathed from criticism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J2112YYZ Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 It's because there was only three of them. There was no other way to pull it off live. That combined with the fact they were incredible musicians meant everyone was ok with it. Using backing tracks live never bothered me. Sometimes that's the only way to pull stuff off. Especially if there are heavy keyboards and other sound effects going on. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Recently, I've been thinking about KISS' supposed final tour (which I've seen, the show they're putting on this tour is just incredible), and the whole big controversy and the accusations of the band using backing tracks. I couldn't help but be reminded of the few times during the Synth era and afterwards where Rush had music playing in the background that wasn't them. Whenever Rush did Grand Designs, the keyboard intro was pre-recorded. Rush performing Mission on the HYF tour, when Ged just presses a key down on one of the four midi controllers to trigger the opening organ chords when he could have easily played it on his own...Another example is Rush performing Where's My Thing live where Ged just steps on his Taurus Pedal once to trigger the keyboard parts. Clearly those parts weren't being played live, however I've never really notice people say anything about it though. I'm not even talking about criticism, just people mentioning the fact that Rush used samples. So for me, that kinda begs the question of were they the only band that was able to get away with using samples and backing tracks for certain keyboard parts completely unscathed from criticism? If your definition of Rush being the only band that "got away with" using samples in their live shows is that you never noticed people talking about it, then yes, they were the only band that got away with it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RushFanForever Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Geddy, Alex, and Neil weren't conceived as 'marine mammals' to have eight tentacles (meaning two legs and six arms) like an 'octopus' to pull off doing everything live themselves. This is probably why The Beatles recorded 'Octopus's Garden' to believe the above could be achieved by a human being. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordgalaxy Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Probably every rap/hip hop song ever written uses samples and backing tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraroc Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 Probably every rap/hip hop song ever written uses samples and backing tracks. Well I wouldn't really consider rap/hip hop artists to be bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemistry1973 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I think during the 80s a lot of bands were doing that - Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, New Order etc... I don't think people did it to the extent of Rush though, especially by the late 80s, the whole band was overwhelmed with triggering. Kinda like the way Twitter is now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueschica Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Wasn't the controversy about the question of whether Paul Stanley is lip synching or not? I think all/most of us are OK with Rush sampling and using backing tracks because they were transparent about it, saying they wanted the songs for the fans to sound like the albums; and also because it was instruments/sound textures and there were only three guys. That's different (to me, anyway) than it would be if they had Geddy out there on R30 or R40 singing away on Fly By Night and sounding exactly like the album; you know that his vocal range may not reach those notes anymore so it would seem tacky; they wouldn't do that to us anyway. I'm not sure what to think about the Paul Stanley singing thing, I haven't looked into it enough. KISS never met publicity, good or negative, that they didn't like so it's all gravy to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I was never ok with it....I would much rather have heard stripped back versions or have the songs altered to be played live....they were far too accomplished as musicians not to be able to do this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbanezJem Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Van Halen needed to pipe in the keyboards as Eddie couldn't do it all. Sounded pretty cheesy on the last two tours, but I suspect most of the paying audience would prefer Eddie playing guitar over Eddie playing keys with the solos playing from a tape. Similarly, Geddy could hardly play keys and have the entire bass track from the tape. I'm always amazed by successfully, simultaneously playing multiple instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony R Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I was never ok with it....I would much rather have heard stripped back versions or have the songs altered to be played live....they were far too accomplished as musicians not to be able to do this. I remember Neil Peart saying words to the effect that he always felt disappointed if he saw a band live and they changed their songs for live presentation. So I guess that’s the reason why they didn’t strip them back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony R Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 The other thing is that the samples had to be triggered by the band so was a genuine performance as they had to get timing right and play their instruments... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I was never ok with it....I would much rather have heard stripped back versions or have the songs altered to be played live....they were far too accomplished as musicians not to be able to do this. I remember Neil Peart saying words to the effect that he always felt disappointed if he saw a band live and they changed their songs for live presentation. So I guess that’s the reason why they didn’t strip them back. Figures.....Mr Robotico getting his own way again...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 The other thing is that the samples had to be triggered by the band so was a genuine performance as they had to get timing right and play their instruments... Still didn't like it and unnecessary imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Personally, I'm grateful to any band that would use backing tracks/samples. I went to too many concerts in the sixties/seventies and came home so very disappointed because little they played sounded even close to the album cuts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraroc Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 Wasn't the controversy about the question of whether Paul Stanley is lip synching or not? I think all/most of us are OK with Rush sampling and using backing tracks because they were transparent about it, saying they wanted the songs for the fans to sound like the albums; and also because it was instruments/sound textures and there were only three guys. That's different (to me, anyway) than it would be if they had Geddy out there on R30 or R40 singing away on Fly By Night and sounding exactly like the album; you know that his vocal range may not reach those notes anymore so it would seem tacky; they wouldn't do that to us anyway. I'm not sure what to think about the Paul Stanley singing thing, I haven't looked into it enough. KISS never met publicity, good or negative, that they didn't like so it's all gravy to them. As much as I don't want to criticize my favorite bassist, I think that it can be chalked up to a little bit of laziness on Ged's part. Especially with the intro to Mission and the slap bass on Scars. But as I said before, if anyone has earned the right to be a little lazy, it's Geddy. I mean shit, he's already helped made Rush into one of the most popular progressive arena rock bands in the whole wide world by the early 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueschica Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Personally, I'm grateful to any band that would use backing tracks/samples. I went to too many concerts in the sixties/seventies and came home so very disappointed because little they played sounded even close to the album cuts. I remember some similar performances in the 70's :o 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombstone Mountain Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 (edited) The other thing is that the samples had to be triggered by the band so was a genuine performance as they had to get timing right and play their instruments...which were done by all the members. They all have their duties in regards to this. Excuse me. they all "had" their duties Edited August 7, 2019 by Tombstone Mountain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 The other thing is that the samples had to be triggered by the band so was a genuine performance as they had to get timing right and play their instruments...which were done by all the members. They all have their duties in regards to this. Excuse me. they all "had" their duties YO!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombstone Mountain Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 The other thing is that the samples had to be triggered by the band so was a genuine performance as they had to get timing right and play their instruments...which were done by all the members. They all have their duties in regards to this. Excuse me. they all "had" their duties YO!!Wuddup dawg? I answer to yo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 (edited) I'd be perfectly fine with it if Rush ever toured again if Geddy were to lip sync, actually I'd prefer it. Edited August 7, 2019 by snowdogged 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 The other thing is that the samples had to be triggered by the band so was a genuine performance as they had to get timing right and play their instruments...which were done by all the members. They all have their duties in regards to this. Excuse me. they all "had" their duties YO!!Wuddup dawg? I answer to yo I was just over in Cocke County about six weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombstone Mountain Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 The other thing is that the samples had to be triggered by the band so was a genuine performance as they had to get timing right and play their instruments...which were done by all the members. They all have their duties in regards to this. Excuse me. they all "had" their duties YO!!Wuddup dawg? I answer to yo I was just over in Cocke County about six weeks ago.That's where all the pedophiles hang out. I'm not gonna ask why you were there though. Sure it was official "work" related business 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taurus Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I think to fill out some sound or make the parts that it would just be impossible to make like all the Dreamline vocal parts and such, I'm OK with. A keyboard part that's triggered while Geddy is furiously playing a bassline I'm OK with I don't think there was any out and out fakery going on just some embellishments. Although I was suprised to find out the "Hemispheres" chord in Far Cry was prerecorded. We found that out by video posted to youtube and there was a poweroutage on stage and none of the live playing came through the PA but the triggered and pre-recorded sounds did - and there it was that chord. Iron Maiden used prerecorded intro to Aces High, Somewhere in Time and of course The Ides of March intro but I don't believe they mimed the playing, just had the lights low so you couldn't see they weren't on stage yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Personally, I'm grateful to any band that would use backing tracks/samples. I went to too many concerts in the sixties/seventies and came home so very disappointed because little they played sounded even close to the album cuts. I remember some similar performances in the 70's :oReally bad. Bad enough to want your money back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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