Apologies for heretical content

[Alex’s Amazing Arpeggios]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:50 PM, 1-0-0-1-0-0-1 said:

 

RTB suffered the same fate for me after CP came out. As a Rush fan who got into them in 1980 with PeW, there was a certain resignation with RTB, like, okay, this is what Rush is now -- they're this light-sounding pop-rock band with a Rush influence. It was easy to think that way when you looked at RTB, Presto, HYF and even PoW as a whole -- RTB was clearly a continuation of their journey away from their hard prog heyday. There wasn't much of a progression from Presto to RTB, and that's where the resignation came from for me.

 

CP was what RTB and maybe even Presto should have been -- a big f**k you to HYF and the keyboard era. It wasn't a return to hard prog, but it was organic-sounding with heavy guitars, bass and drums. A step in the right direction.

 

T4E grabbed me instantly because it was, at least sonically, a continuation of CP. The guitars were even heavier, and I loved it. At least, at first. The songs didn't hold up over time, though the title track, Driven and Time And Motion are still go-to listens.

[chemistry1973]

The debut is good in hindsight taking the entire catalog into consideration.

 

But it’s not that great and sounds a lot like so many other 70s bands. But maybe not as good.

 

I appreciate the drumming and John’s contribution, but they are not quite ready for prime-time in 74.

 

I think the limitations with John became apparent when they finally put their songs to tape. And of course John deserves credit for pushing the band to write their own material.

 

Fly By Night is a huge leap for the band, and they were already shaking off the bar band stink.

Edited June 28, 2023 by chemistry1973

[JARG]

My initial daily musical diet consisted of AM radio. This was in the mid 70s, so my diet consisted largely of disco and "novelty" pop songs. I thought that was what good music sounded like. It was also around this time that I began to take an interest in fantasy and science-fiction stories. In '77 Star Wars came out and had a huge impact on me (I was 12 at the time). It was also in '77 that I walked into the house after coming home from school where my older brother was playing By-Tor and the Snowdog on the "hi-fi" really loud. I came in right during Neil's three big drum fills. I was stunned. I'd never heard music like that. I'd never been truly affected by music before that moment. I sat down with the album and started reading the lyrics. "Holy shit, this band is singing songs about fantasy stuff!"

 

Yeah, it was love at first listen/read for me.

 

If I look back at that 12 year old kid and think about what he would have thought of Rush had his first introduction to the band been, say, HYF or Presto or RTB or, quite a few other albums, I don't think he would have connected to the band in any meaningful way. I don't know that the music would have hit me the same way, and I think the subject matter of lyrics from those later albums would have been too "mature" to appeal to my 12 year old self.

[apetersvt]

On 6/26/2023 at 1:09 PM, Maverick said:

Hold Your Fire

Presto

Roll the Bones

Test for Echo

 

HYF was the first new Rush to come out after I was a cemented fan.  I bought it, but it's never gotten a lot of spins, not when I had the back catalog that was so good. 

 

Presto was supposed to be a return to form, stripped down Rush, and it was, but again, not a lot of spins. 

 

RTB is the interesting one here.  I really liked it a lot when it came out.  The whole Chance theme was really appealing to me at the time, but after CP came out, RTB really fell by the wayside, and to this day I generally shun it.  I would even use Dreamline and Roll The Bones as bathroom break opportunities during the later concerts.  So did a lot of other people.

 

T4E never really grabbed me at all.  I've heard the term "Rush by numbers" to describe Rush's sometimes formulaic approach to writing songs, and to me that phenomenon is most present on this record.  Even my favorite song on the album, Time and Motion, is only my favorite  because it progressive hard rock Rush...by numbers.

My thoughts exactly.  Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing it out.  Only exceptions would be 'bathroom break' (as I typically never have to go during a concert) and Time and Motion being my fave of T4E (Driven for me)

[Rush Didact]

I find it strange that people have such a dim view of T4E.  I much prefer it to CP - in my mind, THAT'S the Rush-by-numbers album...

[chemistry1973]

42 minutes ago, Rush Didact said:

I find it strange that people have such a dim view of T4E.  I much prefer it to CP - in my mind, THAT'S the Rush-by-numbers album...

I can’t get past some of the lyrics. The music is off the chain though.

 

Virtuality is incredible musically - I wish they spent more time refining the words and vocal melody though. Carve Away the Stone and Totem are pretty great.

[Rush Didact]

16 minutes ago, chemistry1973 said:

I can’t get past some of the lyrics. The music is off the chain though.

 

Virtuality is incredible musically - I wish they spent more time refining the words and vocal melody though. Carve Away the Stone and Totem are pretty great.

 

I like Virtuality, it reminds me what it was like to be online in the 90s.  Yeah, it ventures into cliche, but I like it all the same.

[Alex’s Amazing Arpeggios]

5 hours ago, chemistry1973 said:

The debut is good in hindsight taking the entire catalog into consideration.

 

But it’s not that great and sounds a lot like so many other 70s bands. But maybe not as good.

 

I appreciate the drumming and John’s contribution, but they are not quite ready for prime-time in 74.

 

I think the limitations with John became apparent when they finally put their songs to tape. And of course John deserves credit for pushing the band to write their own material.

 

Fly By Night is a huge leap for the band, and they were already shaking off the bar band stink.

I agree 

[Alex’s Amazing Arpeggios]

16 minutes ago, Rush Didact said:

 

I like Virtuality, it reminds me what it was like to be online in the 90s.  Yeah, it ventures into cliche, but I like it all the same.

Yeah, it’s easy to forget that even though T4E was released in ‘96, Neil may have actually wrote the lyrics straight after CP’s release in ‘93 or perhaps even earlier.

From memory I wasn’t yet online and surfing the web in ‘96 .. let alone in ‘93 or earlier 🙃

[laughedatbytime]

3 hours ago, chemistry1973 said:

I can’t get past some of the lyrics. The music is off the chain though.

 

Virtuality is incredible musically - I wish they spent more time refining the words and vocal melody though. Carve Away the Stone and Totem are pretty great.

The lyrics are perfect when you consider that Neil wrote them to be the poetic equivalent to the aural effect of the sound of connecting to dialup.

[invisible airwave]

I got started at Fly By Night up to Moving Pictures around at the same time thanks to iTunes store around Summer 08.  I'd say it's likely HYF and Presto.

[Motorshooter]

I discovered Rush in 1978 when I listened to 2112...fantastic album! I really enjoy ALL of Rush's work up to Hold Your Fire.....that album just wasn't my interpretation...expectation of Rush, so I didn't buy it...or the next album...or the next. They lost me. I didn't purchase another Rush album until Vapor Trails. To me, Trails sounds like Rush returning to their roots. Snakes & Arrows and Clockwork Angels are still two of my favorites.      

 

I'm still a big  fan, just a few albums didn't live up to their potential.  

 

      

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Motorshooter

[Weatherman]

My first intro was MP, immediately followed by Presto and 2112. All in the same month.

I loved all three of them. I didn't care what was "pop" or "prog rock" or "synth heavy" or "light production". The songwriting on all 3 albums was tight, tight, tight. 

They're still 3 of my top 5 Rush albums today.

 

Anyways, my vote was for CoS. There is nothing about that album I enjoy. It's a slog. 

The CoS --> 2112 turnaround was one of rock music's great ninth-inning comebacks. 

[Timbale]

On 6/28/2023 at 3:16 PM, Rush Didact said:

 

I like Virtuality, it reminds me what it was like to be online in the 90s.  Yeah, it ventures into cliche, but I like it all the same.

I think Neil had a very dim and negative view of the internet - certainly back then.  I don't know if he ever expressed more nuanced views on it in later years...but when he realized he could post a bunch of stuff about riding around on his motorcycle on a blog, he seemed to embrace it 

[Rush Didact]

1 hour ago, Timbale said:

I think Neil had a very dim and negative view of the internet - certainly back then.

 

How so?  Virtuality seems to be a pretty optimistic take on the internet, and I've never heard anything particularly negative from him about it...

[JARG]

6 minutes ago, Rush Didact said:

 

How so? 

An early negative consequence of the internet for him:

 

For almost twenty years I have made the time to answer everybody who has written to me through Modern Drummer. A couple of times a year I would set aside a whole day and spend it reading these letters and writing out postcards in response - at first by hand and later on the keyboard - answering each letter individually and uniquely (i.e. no form letters).

By now the total of those responses would number in the thousands, but I was always able to keep up with them at my own pace. Because I was careful never to talk about it in interviews and such, the numbers stayed under control - it remained "our little secret." Until now.

In the last year or so the number of letters has doubled or tripled all of the sudden, and although it might be flattering to consider this just a reflection of my ever-growing popularity, I know that's not the case.

All it took was a few people to go on the World-Wide GossipNet and start telling people that I had answered their letters through Modern Drummer, and the floodgates were open. These big mouths (or big fingers) have spoiled it for everyone.

Including me. Personally, I feel terrible about this situation, for it has always given me a glow of satisfaction to spend that time on a little bit of altruism - knowing that I might bring a smile to these people's faces, or even encourage them a little bit. However, this is not something I want to devote my life to, and as I face the ever-growing pile of mail in the corner of my office, I know I will never again be able to keep up with it.

So to any of you whose personal messages and requests reside in that pile, I offer my sincere apologies for not answering them. This unfortunate consequence of the much-vaunted Inter-thingy is a shame, and I do regret it.

But hey - it was good while it lasted!

[Timbale]

18 minutes ago, Rush Didact said:

 

How so?  Virtuality seems to be a pretty optimistic take on the internet, and I've never heard anything particularly negative from him about it...

I can't recall where I read it...some interview with him, maybe more than one... he just seemed very hung up on "it's not real life" in way that felt very simplistic, given his intellect.  (When I think of how prescient David Bowie's views on it were, I feel disappointed in Peart.) 

 

Even the lyric "Let's dance tonight to a virtual song"...is it in the tour book, maybe, where he comments on it, saying, well, what IS a virtual song and how can you dance to it?  And it's like...I get it, but what are songs delivered in the medium of cassette, or vinyl, then?  It just seems like he was a bit "grandad shaking his fist at cloud" about this thing that was clearly a systemic shift in how we all communicated.  I just found his take on it simplistic.  

[Rush Didact]

I find that very interesting. Frankly, I think it's more prescient than if it were the other way around. I recall the 90s as a time of "the internet will change everything and it's all going to be amazing" rhetoric, which feels naïve and short-sighted from the perspective of 2023, where social media has destroyed any pretense of consensus about the facts of our society. That's one of the reasons I like Virtuality is because it reminds me what it felt like to be optimistic about the internet and the possibilities it had.

[Timbale]

21 hours ago, Rush Didact said:

I find that very interesting. Frankly, I think it's more prescient than if it were the other way around. I recall the 90s as a time of "the internet will change everything and it's all going to be amazing" rhetoric, which feels naïve and short-sighted from the perspective of 2023, where social media has destroyed any pretense of consensus about the facts of our society. That's one of the reasons I like Virtuality is because it reminds me what it felt like to be optimistic about the internet and the possibilities it had.

I think maybe we're getting into semantics, haha...I wasn't implying that the internet has turned out to be a great thing and Peart was wrong to be pessimistic about it. I just think that Bowie got that it was going to create an entirely new way of communicating...not good or bad, but something that had not yet been seen.  I feel personally, on balance, it's had a negative impact on society.  But I didn't feel like Peart was grasping the enormity of the shift in the way Bowie was.  Peart seemed dismissive of it in a simplistic way, that's all I meant.  :)

[Tony R]

I got into Rush on the back of the first 4 albums via ATWAS. AFTK was the first I bought day of release and felt it was a massive step up from all that went before. GUP started the rot in terms of outstanding releases and Hold Your Fire was the nadir, though Time Stand Still is one of my favourite Rush tracks. Presto, RTB, CP, and T4E are albums I rarely listen to. I was more forgiving when they returned after Peart’s tragedies but VT and Snakes are a bit meh and CA is just decent. 

So, if GUP was the first album I heard it’s touch and go if I’d got into the earlier stuff. 

[Weatherman]

It sounds like a lot of people really fell off the bandwagon at HYF.

I can understand that. 

But there's still a lot to love about that album -- at least 4 banger songs, a couple more very good ones, Geddy's best vocals of his career, some excellent slappin-de-bass, and the usual great lyrics. 

Put it this way: I listen to HYF waaay more than RTB or TFE or VT or CA. 

[lifeson90]

Remember when Workin' Them Angels released as a single and could not for the life of me understand why, as a hardened rush head the song's good i really get it but couldn't see myself as a younger person being excited by it in any way, would've instantly turned off and away to something else.

 

Thankfully my first experience of rush was the spirit of radio and permanent waves in general, which pulls you in without a choice of course

[malm_51]

Presto - Still I like 2 or 3 tracks however that album cover,  definitely not their best! 

[taurus]

What initially grabbed me was the powerful start/stop in their music. Think Anthem/Bastille Day/Overture. Those sounds hit me hard, then combine that with Geddy's banshee wail and that Ricky sound - all that stuff is gone by 1982 so really anything from Signals onward, I'm not sure I would have engaged. Tough to say. I love it all but 1974-1981 was absolute magic

[Mosher]

First, I will assume I'm 15, just to pick an age where I think I was most primed for any of Rush's varied styles. 

With this in mind I have to say the debut, assuming radio showed me nothing else, would never have sold me on more. 

Working man is pure fire, but I can compare that to other bands with similar punch. It was never enough for me. Unless the whole album is like that, and it isn't. 

The debut is fairly typical hard rock of its time. It's well played, but lyrically weak. It would have to burn all the way through but it doesn't. And some of the rockers are downright painful to me lyrically. Need Some Love rocks, but I can't get past that awful first line. 

Now it's important to note that certain tracks on later albums would have halted me fast- but every one of those other albums has music I like paired with lyrics I like. Enough so that I would have been waiting for more. 

That debut would have left me looking for maybe a great single, but I wouldn't have bought the second album until I heard Fly By Night on the radio.