Is Terry Brown Above Criticism ?

[Lucas]

Sometimes being comfortable and familiar is not the best thing for creating great art - music or otherwise .... I understand that the time between Caress Of Steel and 2112 was crucial, however, the parallels between this point and time for Rush and that same time for KISS are extremely similar, and when KISS brought in Bob Ezrin - who by all accounts thrives on pressure and creating something dramatic while making a statement - Ezrin pushed the band to a level that had not come close to - before or after ..

 

Not every KISS fan is thrilled with what Ezrin did for them. Give me the raw crunch of Alive era records over the overproduced and sanitized Destroyer any day.

 

You can have "Beth". I'll take "Parasite". ;)

 

I won't argue with that at all ... My favorite album is actually Dressed To Kill

 

What I meant was that Ezrin pushed them to a different level - KISS probably would have made another album similar to the first three ( which would have been fine by me ) - and Ezrin was a huge part of the leap forward ..

 

I think the combination of Ezrin and Rush during the 2112 era would have been incredible

 

.. not that it wasn't fantastic with Brown - - I just think the talent in Rush and the creativity that was in the 3 band members could have benefitted from a fellow mensch of a musician

 

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Edited November 28, 2015 by Lucas

[TexMike]

Sometimes being comfortable and familiar is not the best thing for creating great art - music or otherwise .... I understand that the time between Caress Of Steel and 2112 was crucial, however, the parallels between this point and time for Rush and that same time for KISS are extremely similar, and when KISS brought in Bob Ezrin - who by all accounts thrives on pressure and creating something dramatic while making a statement - Ezrin pushed the band to a level that had not come close to - before or after ..

 

Not every KISS fan is thrilled with what Ezrin did for them. Give me the raw crunch of Alive era records over the overproduced and sanitized Destroyer any day.

 

You can have "Beth". I'll take "Parasite". ;)

 

I won't argue with that at all ... My favorite album is actually Dressed To Kill

 

What I meant was that Ezrin pushed them to a different level - KISS probably would have made another album similar to the first three ( which would have been fine by me ) - and Ezrin was a huge part of the leap forward ..

 

I think the combination of Ezrin and Rush during the 2112 era would have been incredible

 

.. not that it wasn't fantastic with Brown - - I just think the talent in Rush and the creativity that was in the 3 band members could have benefitted from a fellow mensch of a musician

 

No doubt that KISS hiring Ezrin was a smart move, commercially speaking. "Beth" in particular was arranged to appeal to a much broader audience than the band had attracted to that point and it absolutely succeeded. But Destroyer in general also alienated many existing fans with its more mainstream polished sound. Fortunately KISS realized that and made sure to follow it up with a record that was back to the more raw guitar style that they do best.

 

But the idea of Ezrin producing 2112? Nah, I'm glad that didn't happen. That album (along with nearly everything else Brown did with them) is pretty much perfect as is. Ezrin would've tried to make Rush sound more symphonic and lush, which in the case of 2112, would've likely taken away some of the power that makes the title song the classic that it is. (It would be interesting to hear the difference if we had access to an alternate universe. ;) )

 

SIGNALS would've been the album to try Ezrin, since Brown wasn't really into where the band was going at that point anyway.

[patjnev]

When Rush fired Broon I fired Rush. But looking back now some of those first albums post Brown are pretty good. So maybe they did the right thing. And I can't think if a single band I know of that Brown produced since his stint with Rush so maybe at the time he wasn't a asset to the band. One thing for sure leading up to that time he made several masterpieces in a row and that's not just whistlin' dixie !!!!!!!!!!

[JohnRogers]

I just wonder what VT, S&A and Clockwork would have been like if the band returned with Terry Brown.

[EagleMoon]

I just wonder what VT, S&A and Clockwork would have been like if the band returned with Terry Brown.

 

I've always kind of wondered that too. They said that Nick energized them, so maybe the production would have been good, but the songs more plodding and lifeless than they are?

[JohnRogers]

I just wonder what VT, S&A and Clockwork would have been like if the band returned with Terry Brown.

 

I've always kind of wondered that too. They said that Nick energized them, so maybe the production would have been good, but the songs more plodding and lifeless than they are?

Possible but I doubt it. Of course I can't claim to be objective.

[EagleMoon]

I just wonder what VT, S&A and Clockwork would have been like if the band returned with Terry Brown.

 

I've always kind of wondered that too. They said that Nick energized them, so maybe the production would have been good, but the songs more plodding and lifeless than they are?

Possible but I doubt it. Of course I can't claim to be objective.

 

Yeah I guess we'll never really know.

[JohnRogers]

I just wonder what VT, S&A and Clockwork would have been like if the band returned with Terry Brown.

 

I've always kind of wondered that too. They said that Nick energized them, so maybe the production would have been good, but the songs more plodding and lifeless than they are?

Possible but I doubt it. Of course I can't claim to be objective.

 

Yeah I guess we'll never really know.

Never say never. New album and R45 tour...

;)

[EagleMoon]

I just wonder what VT, S&A and Clockwork would have been like if the band returned with Terry Brown.

 

I've always kind of wondered that too. They said that Nick energized them, so maybe the production would have been good, but the songs more plodding and lifeless than they are?

Possible but I doubt it. Of course I can't claim to be objective.

 

Yeah I guess we'll never really know.

Never say never. New album and R45 tour...

;)

 

;)

[RUSHHEAD666]

You Rush fans are all on crack! Ted Templeton of Van Halen fame should have produced Seventies Rush shit!

 

It would have been off the hook!!!!!

[RUSHHEAD666]

I just wonder what VT, S&A and Clockwork would have been like if the band returned with Terry Brown.

 

I've always kind of wondered that too. They said that Nick energized them, so maybe the production would have been good, but the songs more plodding and lifeless than they are?

Possible but I doubt it. Of course I can't claim to be objective.

 

Yeah I guess we'll never really know.

Never say never. New album and R45 tour...

;)

 

HAHAHAHA! That's funny!

 

"Never Say Never" is the worst James Bond film ever made.

 

It would be like watching RUSH perform 5 years from now.

 

IT'S OVER!

 

Signed,

 

"The Oracle"

[Digital Dad]

You Rush fans are all on crack! Ted Templeton of Van Halen fame should have produced Seventies Rush shit!

 

It would have been off the hook!!!!!

 

Bill Szymczyk. He already knew how to produce power trios. He could have tightened up the writing and gotten rid of some filler.

[JohnRogers]

I just wonder what VT, S&A and Clockwork would have been like if the band returned with Terry Brown.

 

I've always kind of wondered that too. They said that Nick energized them, so maybe the production would have been good, but the songs more plodding and lifeless than they are?

Possible but I doubt it. Of course I can't claim to be objective.

 

Yeah I guess we'll never really know.

Never say never. New album and R45 tour...

;)

 

HAHAHAHA! That's funny!

 

"Never Say Never" is the worst James Bond film ever made.

 

It would be like watching RUSH perform 5 years from now.

 

IT'S OVER!

What if I told you that Trixter was the opening act for the entire tour???

[RUSHHEAD666]

I just wonder what VT, S&A and Clockwork would have been like if the band returned with Terry Brown.

 

I've always kind of wondered that too. They said that Nick energized them, so maybe the production would have been good, but the songs more plodding and lifeless than they are?

Possible but I doubt it. Of course I can't claim to be objective.

 

Yeah I guess we'll never really know.

Never say never. New album and R45 tour...

;)

 

HAHAHAHA! That's funny!

 

"Never Say Never" is the worst James Bond film ever made.

 

It would be like watching RUSH perform 5 years from now.

 

IT'S OVER!

What if I told you that Trixter was the opening act for the entire tour???

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

That is absolutely CLASSIC!!!

 

That is actually one of my most HATED hair bands of all time!!! YUCK!! How about Slaughter? Wait! I hate them too!

 

 

Now if it was

 

RUSH

GHOST

 

 

I'M ALL IN!

[patjnev]

Trixter T30 :D-13:

[GabesCavesOfIce]

I just wonder what VT, S&A and Clockwork would have been like if the band returned with Terry Brown.

 

I've always kind of wondered that too. They said that Nick energized them, so maybe the production would have been good, but the songs more plodding and lifeless than they are?

Possible but I doubt it. Of course I can't claim to be objective.

 

Yeah I guess we'll never really know.

Never say never. New album and R45 tour...

;)

 

HAHAHAHA! That's funny!

 

"Never Say Never" is the worst James Bond film ever made.

 

It would be like watching RUSH perform 5 years from now.

 

IT'S OVER!

What if I told you that Trixter was the opening act for the entire tour???

 

 

R45 gonna come right after R43 - The Drummerless Tour

 

 

.

[Rutlefan]

I feel the same way about album producers as I do video editors. If I'm noticing what *they've* done to the finished product more than I am the actual artists or film subjects, there's a problem.

 

The best quality about Terry Brown was that he was smart enough to get out of the way and let Rush be Rush.

 

Amen!

[Rutlefan]

I feel the same way about album producers as I do video editors. If I'm noticing what *they've* done to the finished product more than I am the actual artists or film subjects, there's a problem.

 

The best quality about Terry Brown was that he was smart enough to get out of the way and let Rush be Rush.

I don't think that's true. After all, he didn't want to record Digital Man

 

But they did, unfortunately.

[Rutlefan]

I don't know what Terry exactly did or did not do for Rush, and I've never heard anything he's done for anyone else, but for my tastes, any fifteen minutes of any Terry Brown Rush album has stronger material than any 45 minutes of any Rush album that came after him. Coincidence? For my part, I'll be on Terry. The combination of Rush and Terry produced consistently fantastic material; everything after him doesn't come close, as much as I like their post-T4E stuff.

[JBsDWdrums]

Yeah well maybe if Terry hadn't made Neil break up with his girlfriend he would still be with Rush?....

 

You guys heard what was said on BTLS...? Right.

 

What's that?....oh

 

Nevermind.

[Rutlefan]

I'm not a Rush historian, but I'm thinking that Rush (Neil and Geddy mostly) were pining to get with the in-crowd of music that was going on at the time, and lo and behold they seem to have Steve Lillywhite lined up to do the follow-up to Signals. No one was more "in" then Steve Lillywhite at the time, so there was no one better to help "rescue" Rush from their '70s prog rock image. So, as difficult as it is on a personal level, they can Terry because Steve is going to take them to the promised land of critical acceptability. But then Steve abandons them on the eve of the prom to produce Simple Minds, who were quite hip at the time (as well, I imagine someone might have whispered in his ear that being associated with Rush would tarnish his hip creds; I wonder if he regrets the decision now). So, there Rush was without Terry but also without Steve.

 

To be fair of course, it does seem apparent that they (again, Neil and Geddy it seems) sincerely wanted to go in a direction that Terry wasn't best equipped to take them. So, whether or not Steve Lillywhite was ever in the picture, Terry was going to go, and whether or not Terry had continued with them, Rush was going to sound different than they had. So, I think that Terry and Rush only works if they are going to be on the same page. Seems their sound has come back to that. I'd love to see a reunion to cap off their career, assuming there is one more album.

[Bhawk2112]

I like the synths era alot(because they wrote many quality songs in that era) ...but when one of the greatest bass players of all time plays the keys instead, needing color coded dots in order to do so, and relegates one of the best lead guitarists of all time to background sounds, something significant is amiss.

 

The Roland Fantom X-7 is used more as a controller than a synth. Those dots are more indicative of sample triggers than assistance with actually playing the parts.

[Bhawk2112]

Moving Pictures was the pinnacle of the work done with Terry Brown. The drum sound is absolutely perfect. Perhaps there was nowhere left to go as far as production and creativity together?

 

Sometimes you just need a change.

 

Much has changed with the advent of technology and time with remasters and such, but when Signals first came out it sounded like it was recorded in a coffee can, especially on cassette.

[Lucas]

For what it's worth: from biographer Bill Banasiewicz about the period just after Signals

 

... The band then took more than a month off for the holidays during

which Geddy produced the debut album for the Boys Brigade. He had

high hopes for the band as did Howard and Ray, their managers.

But, despite a solid performance and lots of club dates, the band

were never able to gain a large following. Still, it reflected

Rush's growing interest in outside projects. Geddy was talking

about branching out into film work. Alex had a growing obsession

with flying and he occasionally said that he might like to try to

act. Neil was writing articles for Modern Drummer magazine and

writing fiction on the side. All three began to talk more

frequently about solo projects. While they had mentioned the

possibility of such work in the past, now it came up in almost

every interview they did. Much of the work on 'Signals' started

out as a G. Lee solo project. The band also began to express

doubts about 'Signals'. The strain was starting to show.

 

This was apparent at a show in San Diego in February just after

the holiday break where their performance was sloppy and the

sound was weak. About the only part of the show that was up to

their usual high standard was the lighting. However, the crowd

thought they were playing a great show. After the concert the

band didn't want to see anyone. So, I went back to talk to them.

They asked me what I thought. I said, "Don't ask me because I'll

tell you." Neil said, "That bad, huh?" We spent the rest of the

night getting drunk, laughing, telling jokes and having a good

time. Alex tried to drag me onto the bus which was heading for

Tucson, but I couldn't go.

 

Even though I have seen the band many times, and expect quite a

lot out of a performance, there is no one more critical than

Alex, Geddy and Neil of their playing. They know when they play

badly, and appreciate it when someone is willing to tell them.

There is apparently nothing worse than doing a bad show and then

having someone tell you that you were great. Of course, a rotten

Rush concert is still better than most others.

 

The band continued to think about the results of 'Signals'. The

more time that elapsed, the more dissatisfied they became. While

sitting at the crew meal with Geddy and Ben Mink backstage at the

Hollywood Sportatorium in March, Terry Brown arrived on the

scene. "What are you doing here?" said Terry "He's our tour

reporter," replied Geddy. Broon was down to discuss the

production of the next record. It was time for a show-down.

During the course of several days of meetings, it was decided

that Terry would not produce the next album. He had been with the

band for a decade, and had been called 'the fourth member of

Rush'by the band themselves. They realised that they needed a

change, but as Neil later said, it was "like cutting an umbilical

cord."

 

"It is no easy thing to tell someone that, after all this time,

you want to work with someone else for a change--and still harder

to be told it. It was tough for us and tough for Terry. We have

been through so much together and he has contributed so much to

our development and refinement--both as people and musicians. It

was awkward, difficult and a bit painful, but we had to do it or

always wonder, 'what if we had?' While objectively one may

recognise the right thing to do, subjectively it's sometimes too

easy to rationalise the easy way out. We had to cut the umbilical

cord."

 

Alex later told the Milwaukee Journal that... "After'Signals'we

were at a point where we wanted to know how someone else would

treat our music. We had become so close with Terry that it was

difficult to be unsure about anything."

 

Geddy told Scene magazine that... "The main problem was that we

had tried so many different experiments the last few years that

we lost sight of the essential Rush sound. We needed to regain

our confidence and our trust..."

 

Whatever the artistic reasons for the change, the personal cost

was high. Terry was not just a coproducer, he was a friend, and

Alex, Geddy and Neil always believed in sticking behind people

loyal to them. Yet, at the same time, they needed to show

fidelity to the music that had brought them so far. Terry would

later produce the soundtrack for a concert film of the band's

performance, but he was out as their studio producer.

 

.

 

.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Lucas

[tangy]

^^^ interesting read!

 

I thought

 

Geddy told Scene magazine that... "The main problem was that we

had tried so many different experiments the last few years that

we lost sight of the essential Rush sound. We needed to regain

our confidence and our trust..."

 

 

So having lost sight of the essential rush sound was cured by gup?

 

I love gup but the next few records are the my least favorite by a long shot.

 

Firing terry brown was likely their biggest mistake?

 

And after their highest charting single of all time!