What's wrong with Test For Echo exactly?

[goose]

Yes, it is. And that fact ties in exactly as to why many of us consider it to be among their worst. I don't WANT Rush to be mainstream and liked by everybody.

LOL I kinda understand the sentiment. Rush is like a huge secret club, only us Rush fans will understand.

 

I rememeber T4E being referred to a Alex's return to rock by the guitar magazines at the time.

[Lock And Key]

Interesting how 'The Bones' gets dissed on a Test for Echo and Counterparts topic, I think Roll The Bones is one of the very best albums, nothing wrong with T4E CP either, Color of right is a great song and and Everyday Glory is one of their best ever tracks I listened to it today that track has everything.

[Blue J]

Interesting how 'The Bones' gets dissed on a Test for Echo and Counterparts topic, I think Roll The Bones is one of the very best albums, nothing wrong with T4E CP either, Color of right is a great song and and Everyday Glory is one of their best ever tracks I listened to it today that track has everything.

 

I love Roll the Bones! Much, much, muchly more than Test For Echo.

 

Counterparts is a good album. I don't rate it quite as highly as I once did, but it definitely has some strong material on it.

[Narps]

Interesting how 'The Bones' gets dissed on a Test for Echo and Counterparts topic, I think Roll The Bones is one of the very best albums, nothing wrong with T4E CP either, Color of right is a great song and and Everyday Glory is one of their best ever tracks I listened to it today that track has everything.

Couldn't disagree more but it's all good. Enjoy... :cheers:

[MMCXII]

Nothing. Why?

[GabesCavesOfIce]

I counted HTW, caught the phrase 28 times, but hey, it ain't easy with the phone ringing and sayin bless you to sneezers.

 

But what pushes HTW to HISTORIC repetitive proportions are "the other uses" of the word, such as "the other half." I caught 13 of those, so we got over 40 mentions of half in a four minute ditty.

 

But hey, it's Rush, so the music is awesome. (uh oh)

[Lorraine]

T4E just seems a minor step down from Counterparts.The three songs that follow Driven i don't care for much.I remember when listening to these songs that Alex was getting more into rhythmic ideas...

 

How can you tell that? I'm asking because i once asked about Pete Townshend's guitar playing on here and was told he's more of a rhythm guitar player. But to me, it all sounds the same. What exactly is "rhythm guitar"?

 

It's just playing guitar, pretty much. Strumming and picking out your riffs. If a band has a "lead" guitarist, he or she will do all the solo-y sounding bits - the little guitar accents (or "licks") that you hear from time to time along with the main guitar solo. Lifeson does both. For example, if you listen to Ghost of a Chance, you'll hear Lifeson start by playing a riff, then when Geddy starts singing you hear a repeating pattern - that's playing rhythm. Later, you'll start to hear little lead bits that he plays throughout the song - like after you hear Lee sing "and make it last" and later, after the 3 minute mark, you hear lots of little flourishes (e.g. after "or love as a mystical state"). I'd say everything else is playing rhythm.

 

Thanks, Toymaker. And thank you for giving me a song as an example. So, then - rhythm guitar is what would be a repeating pattern? Two examples: the end of Tom Sawyer you hear Alex playing the same chords over and over, and I think of the end of You Never Give Me Your Money by The Beatles - the same few notes being played over and over and just fading away.

[Blue J]

T4E just seems a minor step down from Counterparts.The three songs that follow Driven i don't care for much.I remember when listening to these songs that Alex was getting more into rhythmic ideas...

 

How can you tell that? I'm asking because i once asked about Pete Townshend's guitar playing on here and was told he's more of a rhythm guitar player. But to me, it all sounds the same. What exactly is "rhythm guitar"?

 

It's just playing guitar, pretty much. Strumming and picking out your riffs. If a band has a "lead" guitarist, he or she will do all the solo-y sounding bits - the little guitar accents (or "licks") that you hear from time to time along with the main guitar solo. Lifeson does both. For example, if you listen to Ghost of a Chance, you'll hear Lifeson start by playing a riff, then when Geddy starts singing you hear a repeating pattern - that's playing rhythm. Later, you'll start to hear little lead bits that he plays throughout the song - like after you hear Lee sing "and make it last" and later, after the 3 minute mark, you hear lots of little flourishes (e.g. after "or love as a mystical state"). I'd say everything else is playing rhythm.

 

Thanks, Toymaker. And thank you for giving me a song as an example. So, then - rhythm guitar is what would be a repeating pattern? Two examples: the end of Tom Sawyer you hear Alex playing the same chords over and over, and I think of the end of You Never Give Me Your Money by The Beatles - the same few notes being played over and over and just fading away.

 

I was thinking about your question when I saw it earlier this morning, and for some reason the first song I thought of to use as an example of rhythm guitar that's very easy to pick out is I Can't Explain, by The Who. It begins with three chords, and those three chords are repeated through the verses. That's straight rhythm guitar. A lead guitar would be playing different notes and flourishes, like toymaker said, that fit within the flow of the song, over the top of the rhythm guitar. Most times, rhythm guitar is comprised of chords (which are multiple strings of the instrument strummed simultaneously), while lead guitar is a succession of individual notes played on individual strings successively. Lead guitar is generally much more melodic and hummable, than rhythm guitar.

 

I don't know if that helps any more or not. But those were my thoughts.

 

Those and two dollars might buy a cup of coffee, in some corners of the globe.

 

[Duke1]

Big Fan of Counterparts, a top 7 album for me with Hemispheres, Waves, Pictures, Windows, Angels, Trails, Counterparts.

 

Really like Animate, Stick it out, Cut to the Chase, Between Sun and Moon, Double Agent, Leave that thing alone, Everyday Glory.

 

Really like Test for Echo, Driven, Half the World, Color of Right, Totem, Resist from Test for Echo.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Duke1

[Lorraine]

T4E just seems a minor step down from Counterparts.The three songs that follow Driven i don't care for much.I remember when listening to these songs that Alex was getting more into rhythmic ideas...

 

How can you tell that? I'm asking because i once asked about Pete Townshend's guitar playing on here and was told he's more of a rhythm guitar player. But to me, it all sounds the same. What exactly is "rhythm guitar"?

 

It's just playing guitar, pretty much. Strumming and picking out your riffs. If a band has a "lead" guitarist, he or she will do all the solo-y sounding bits - the little guitar accents (or "licks") that you hear from time to time along with the main guitar solo. Lifeson does both. For example, if you listen to Ghost of a Chance, you'll hear Lifeson start by playing a riff, then when Geddy starts singing you hear a repeating pattern - that's playing rhythm. Later, you'll start to hear little lead bits that he plays throughout the song - like after you hear Lee sing "and make it last" and later, after the 3 minute mark, you hear lots of little flourishes (e.g. after "or love as a mystical state"). I'd say everything else is playing rhythm.

 

Thanks, Toymaker. And thank you for giving me a song as an example. So, then - rhythm guitar is what would be a repeating pattern? Two examples: the end of Tom Sawyer you hear Alex playing the same chords over and over, and I think of the end of You Never Give Me Your Money by The Beatles - the same few notes being played over and over and just fading away.

 

I was thinking about your question when I saw it earlier this morning, and for some reason the first song I thought of to use as an example of rhythm guitar that's very easy to pick out is I Can't Explain, by The Who. It begins with three chords, and those three chords are repeated through the verses. That's straight rhythm guitar. A lead guitar would be playing different notes and flourishes, like toymaker said, that fit within the flow of the song, over the top of the rhythm guitar. Most times, rhythm guitar is comprised of chords (which are multiple strings of the instrument strummed simultaneously), while lead guitar is a succession of individual notes played on individual strings successively. Lead guitar is generally much more melodic and hummable, than rhythm guitar.

 

I don't know if that helps any more or not. But those were my thoughts.

 

Those and two dollars might buy a cup of coffee, in some corners of the globe.

 

 

Those two songs that I gave as what I thought to be rhythm guitar aren't then?

[toymaker]

T4E just seems a minor step down from Counterparts.The three songs that follow Driven i don't care for much.I remember when listening to these songs that Alex was getting more into rhythmic ideas...

 

How can you tell that? I'm asking because i once asked about Pete Townshend's guitar playing on here and was told he's more of a rhythm guitar player. But to me, it all sounds the same. What exactly is "rhythm guitar"?

 

It's just playing guitar, pretty much. Strumming and picking out your riffs. If a band has a "lead" guitarist, he or she will do all the solo-y sounding bits - the little guitar accents (or "licks") that you hear from time to time along with the main guitar solo. Lifeson does both. For example, if you listen to Ghost of a Chance, you'll hear Lifeson start by playing a riff, then when Geddy starts singing you hear a repeating pattern - that's playing rhythm. Later, you'll start to hear little lead bits that he plays throughout the song - like after you hear Lee sing "and make it last" and later, after the 3 minute mark, you hear lots of little flourishes (e.g. after "or love as a mystical state"). I'd say everything else is playing rhythm.

 

Thanks, Toymaker. And thank you for giving me a song as an example. So, then - rhythm guitar is what would be a repeating pattern? Two examples: the end of Tom Sawyer you hear Alex playing the same chords over and over, and I think of the end of You Never Give Me Your Money by The Beatles - the same few notes being played over and over and just fading away.

 

Yeah, Tom Sawyer is pretty much all rhythm parts, like the combination of striking a string three times follows by a big ol' chord (ba-ba-ba-baaaaa) to little "arpeggiated" bits (during "what you say about his company") and the bit that you mentioned at the end. The only "lead" in the song as far as I can tell is the solo itself.

 

Your other example is good, too - the "1-2-3-4-5-6-7 all good children go to heaven" - you hear that repeated pattern (and there're lead bits playing over it as well).

[Blue J]

T4E just seems a minor step down from Counterparts.The three songs that follow Driven i don't care for much.I remember when listening to these songs that Alex was getting more into rhythmic ideas...

 

How can you tell that? I'm asking because i once asked about Pete Townshend's guitar playing on here and was told he's more of a rhythm guitar player. But to me, it all sounds the same. What exactly is "rhythm guitar"?

 

It's just playing guitar, pretty much. Strumming and picking out your riffs. If a band has a "lead" guitarist, he or she will do all the solo-y sounding bits - the little guitar accents (or "licks") that you hear from time to time along with the main guitar solo. Lifeson does both. For example, if you listen to Ghost of a Chance, you'll hear Lifeson start by playing a riff, then when Geddy starts singing you hear a repeating pattern - that's playing rhythm. Later, you'll start to hear little lead bits that he plays throughout the song - like after you hear Lee sing "and make it last" and later, after the 3 minute mark, you hear lots of little flourishes (e.g. after "or love as a mystical state"). I'd say everything else is playing rhythm.

 

Thanks, Toymaker. And thank you for giving me a song as an example. So, then - rhythm guitar is what would be a repeating pattern? Two examples: the end of Tom Sawyer you hear Alex playing the same chords over and over, and I think of the end of You Never Give Me Your Money by The Beatles - the same few notes being played over and over and just fading away.

 

I was thinking about your question when I saw it earlier this morning, and for some reason the first song I thought of to use as an example of rhythm guitar that's very easy to pick out is I Can't Explain, by The Who. It begins with three chords, and those three chords are repeated through the verses. That's straight rhythm guitar. A lead guitar would be playing different notes and flourishes, like toymaker said, that fit within the flow of the song, over the top of the rhythm guitar. Most times, rhythm guitar is comprised of chords (which are multiple strings of the instrument strummed simultaneously), while lead guitar is a succession of individual notes played on individual strings successively. Lead guitar is generally much more melodic and hummable, than rhythm guitar.

 

I don't know if that helps any more or not. But those were my thoughts.

 

Those and two dollars might buy a cup of coffee, in some corners of the globe.

 

 

Those two songs that I gave as what I thought to be rhythm guitar aren't then?

 

No, I didn't mean to imply that. Those are good examples of rhythm playing.

 

Interesting, though, because in both of the examples you gave, those parts also serve as the melody. (There is no other guitar part present during those passages, I mean). In the Tom Sawyer fade-out, it's relatively easy to pick out that the guitar and bass are playing comparable lines. When the guitar and bass are following along together like that, that is pure rhythm guitar.

 

I'm not trying to confuse the issue; just thinking out loud. But yes, you're right, citing those.

[HemiBeers]

_{T4E is an 'ok' album...but it just screams 'going through the motions'.} Edited October 1, 2015 by 2112FirstStreet

[JARG]

T4E just seems a minor step down from Counterparts.The three songs that follow Driven i don't care for much.I remember when listening to these songs that Alex was getting more into rhythmic ideas...

 

How can you tell that? I'm asking because i once asked about Pete Townshend's guitar playing on here and was told he's more of a rhythm guitar player. But to me, it all sounds the same. What exactly is "rhythm guitar"?

 

It's just playing guitar, pretty much. Strumming and picking out your riffs. If a band has a "lead" guitarist, he or she will do all the solo-y sounding bits - the little guitar accents (or "licks") that you hear from time to time along with the main guitar solo. Lifeson does both. For example, if you listen to Ghost of a Chance, you'll hear Lifeson start by playing a riff, then when Geddy starts singing you hear a repeating pattern - that's playing rhythm. Later, you'll start to hear little lead bits that he plays throughout the song - like after you hear Lee sing "and make it last" and later, after the 3 minute mark, you hear lots of little flourishes (e.g. after "or love as a mystical state"). I'd say everything else is playing rhythm.

 

Thanks, Toymaker. And thank you for giving me a song as an example. So, then - rhythm guitar is what would be a repeating pattern? Two examples: the end of Tom Sawyer you hear Alex playing the same chords over and over, and I think of the end of You Never Give Me Your Money by The Beatles - the same few notes being played over and over and just fading away.

 

In The End is Rush song you mentioned in a post a couple of weeks ago. Alex is playing rhythm guitar throughout the whole song, except during the lead at which point he is playing lead guitar.

 

Rhythm guitar and lead guitar are just roles a guitarist has in a band or a song.

 

Some player are better at one style than the other, but some players handle both with the same facility.

Edited October 1, 2015 by JARG

[JARG]

nm Edited October 1, 2015 by JARG

[bathory]

T4E's not bad but I haven't felt like listening to it in years

[bathory]

I remember 3 or 4 songs

[maxdistortion]

t4e was the closest rush ever got to sounding alternative-grunge in the 90s. i can see how alot of people wouldn't really like that. i personally i loved that stage but thats beacuse I grew up in that time, and i was listening to alot of Silverchair, Our Lady Peace and the like. so it made sense especially as an impressionable youth.

[ytserush]

Nothing at all wrong with Counterparts or Test For Echo (Well, except for The Speed Of Love and Carve Away The Stone.)

[MMCXII]

_{T4E is an 'ok' album...but it just screams 'going through the motions'.}

 

This just in.. top rock drummer relearns his instrument in order to "go through the motions" :D

 

No I kinda get what your saying f/street, I mean it ain't exactly hemispheres.. couldn't resist though lol

 

I still say it's a great album. Maybe average for Rush but a great album!

 

 

[AnEggplant]

_{T4E is an 'ok' album...but it just screams 'going through the motions'.}

 

This just in.. top rock drummer relearns his instrument in order to "go through the motions" :D

 

No I kinda get what your saying f/street, I mean it ain't exactly hemispheres.. couldn't resist though lol

 

I still say it's a great album. Maybe average for Rush but a great album!

 

I would agree, Hemispheres is better. However, Test for Echo is a very strong album I feel. I like every song on it.

[AnEggplant]

Interesting how 'The Bones' gets dissed on a Test for Echo and Counterparts topic, I think Roll The Bones is one of the very best albums, nothing wrong with T4E CP either, Color of right is a great song and and Everyday Glory is one of their best ever tracks I listened to it today that track has everything.

 

Pitting the albums against each other starting with the instrumentals:

 

Where's My Thing < Limbo < Leave That Thing Alone

 

Dreamline < Test for Echo < Animate

 

Bravado <<< Stick It Out < Driven

 

Roll The Bones < Half the World < Cut to the Chase

 

Face Up <<<<<< Nobody's Hero < The Color of Right

 

The Big Wheel << Time and Motion < Between the Sun and Moon

 

Heresy < Alien Shore < Totem

 

Ghost of a Chance << The Speed of Love < Dog Years

 

Neurotica < Virtuality < Double Agent

 

You Bet your Life << Resist < Cold Fire

 

Carve Away the Stone < Everyday Glory

Edited October 3, 2015 by AnEggplant

[toymaker]

Interesting how 'The Bones' gets dissed on a Test for Echo and Counterparts topic, I think Roll The Bones is one of the very best albums, nothing wrong with T4E CP either, Color of right is a great song and and Everyday Glory is one of their best ever tracks I listened to it today that track has everything.

 

Pitting the albums against each other starting with the instrumentals:

 

Where's My Thing < Limbo < Leave That Thing Alone

 

Dreamline < Test for Echo < Animate

 

Bravado <<< Stick It Out < Driven

 

Roll The Bones < Half the World < Cut to the Chase

 

Face Up <<<<<< Nobody's Hero < The Color of Right

 

The Big Wheel << Time and Motion < Between the Sun and Moon

 

Heresy < Alien Shore < Totem

 

Ghost of a Chance << The Speed of Love < Dog Years

 

Neurotica < Virtuality < Double Agent

 

You Bet your Life << Resist < Cold Fire

 

Carve Away the Stone < Everyday Glory

 

You've done well here, except in a couple of places (Animate, Totem and Dog Years?). . . in my opinion.

Edited October 3, 2015 by toymaker

[AnEggplant]

You've done well here, except in a couple of places (Animate, Totem and Dog Years?). . . in my opinion.

 

But they're all great songs! :)

[HemiBeers]

_{T4E is an 'ok' album...but it just screams 'going through the motions'.}

 

This just in.. top rock drummer relearns his instrument in order to "go through the motions" :D

 

No I kinda get what your saying f/street, I mean it ain't exactly hemispheres.. couldn't resist though lol

 

I still say it's a great album. Maybe average for Rush but a great album!

 

Neil's drumming was strong, but his lyrics were abysmal on some songs. By going through the motions I meant that as a whole...there was nothing really 'new' or all that interesting on this album. Sort of a creative rut of an album.