ucsteve667 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) One cool aspect of the story is that maybe the song Caravan will now have more significance, as lyrically I always found it kind of hard to relate to even though the music is cool. The whole idea, however, of "don't judge the song's meaning until the album comes out because it's a concept album" became kind of ridiculous since it's a good 2 years between the release of the single and the album. That's like me saying, here I just wrote a song, here's the link, but don't try to determine what it means for 2 years until you see how it fits in the context of the rest of the songs I'm still writing. It gets kind of silly, you know? You really have to judge a song on its own, especially if it's released that way. And for what it's worth, I always thought songs that can't stand at all on their own, even within a concept album, tend not to be the greatest of songs. Think of the best songs from The Wall or Scenes From a Memory or The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway or other big time concept albums. My favorite songs from these albums work on their own, and aren't dependent on the bigger concept for them to make sense or for the songs to work. Edited February 10, 2012 by rushgoober Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babycat Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Interesting and cool concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbirdsong Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (losingit2k @ Feb 9 2012, 10:41 PM) I believe the Watchmaker is going to be a character like The Source in "The Matrix" a guy that runs everything! Kind of like the priests in 2112! Regardless I'm pretty physched! Yeah the 2112 similarity seems to be here. Bring it on. Modern times are somewhat depressing and I, for one am ready for something to escape into. There will be a good soundtrack too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (danielmclark @ Feb 9 2012, 03:35 PM) Well this answers one very important question and raises another: We now know for a fact that the Watchmaker is a character in a story, and not simply an allusion to the Christian god (or any specific god). While I might concede after hearing the whole album that the parallel is intentional, we know now that this is primarily a character in a story. So, does that change your opinion about this supposedly blatant personal attack on religion? Can we see now that Neil has simply written a story and populated it with characters? I wrote a story that revolved around a serial murderer years ago - doesn't mean I'm a serial murderer myself. Anderson's description is a far cry (see what I did there?) from the people here frothing at the mouth over how CA is going to be a giant anti-Christian/anti-religion/pro-atheism album. THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 - and for the record - I could care less if the Watchmaker is God so what? It's Neils story - he can write whatever he wants. Having said that - this is great news. I often wondered what kind of "concept" he would come up with and how the two songs could possibly fit into something cohesive - and this sounds very cool indeed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
They Bow Defeated Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 10 2012, 01:11 AM) What the song is about remains to me what I've always thought it was about... until I hear it in context and see if it truly is something more benign. I'd be happy to be wrong as it's a truly obnoxious preachy concept that I hope isn't in any more songs. Do you find Freewill or The Weapon to be "preachy?" If anything, it seems that Neil may be trying to make these ideas more "palatable" to religious folks by presenting them in the context of a scifi story. Would you rather have straightforward song about unbelief (Freewill, The Weapon, Faithless, etc.) or, suppose, a scifi song with an underlying theme that deals with unbelief? Maybe you can ignore the underlying theme, if you choose, and still enjoy the story. Sounds like you're likely not a follower of Ayn Rand , but do you still enjoy 2112? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HemispheresserehpsimeH Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Someone may already have answered this or maybe everyone here knows and I'm out of the loop, but was the CA artwork confirmed to be that art shown on RIAB? The art that looks just like the Caravan/BU2B art but with the title on it? I know it's shown on the Wiki page for the album, but I was never quite sure if it was confirmed to be the final artwork or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Feb 10 2012, 11:27 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 10 2012, 01:11 AM) What the song is about remains to me what I've always thought it was about... until I hear it in context and see if it truly is something more benign. I'd be happy to be wrong as it's a truly obnoxious preachy concept that I hope isn't in any more songs. Do you find Freewill or The Weapon to be "preachy?" If anything, it seems that Neil may be trying to make these ideas more "palatable" to religious folks by presenting them in the context of a scifi story. Would you rather have straightforward song about unbelief (Freewill, The Weapon, Faithless, etc.) or, suppose, a scifi song with an underlying theme that deals with unbelief? Maybe you can ignore the underlying theme, if you choose, and still enjoy the story. Sounds like you're likely not a follower of Ayn Rand , but do you still enjoy 2112? I don't find those songs to be preachy because they're very open to interpretation. I must say, however, that I've never heard The Weapon lumped in with possible anti-religion songs. It's only in recent times with songs like Faithless, and perhaps BU2B, that the message has become so blatant and obvious. I love 2112, and I don't know enough Ayn Rand to be a "follower." I've never read any of her books. I have no problem with the pretty universally acceptable concept of freewill, or of the "stick it to the man" and break away from totalitarian control concepts of 2112. The concepts in 2112 I felt to be benign, even if it was philosophy presented in the context of a sci-fi themed song. I just don't like the direct preachiness and intolerance of putting down religion or believers, whether that's spoken directly or is obvious philosophy presented in a song. That I do not find palatable. On its own, the way it's already been presented, the meaning of BU2B is quite clear. I could only interpret the song based on how it was released, which was on its own. What it becomes in the context of the song suite remains to be seen. Similarly, I wouldn't like preachiness of God or religion, the polar opposite, in a Rush song. Neil obviously finds it necessary at this point in his life to openly polarize his audience. The ensuing backlash had to be expected. Putting down a totalitarian regime is one thing. Putting down people's heartfelt beliefs, which Neil seems to be doing recently in songs and blogs, to me crosses the line and moves into the realm of personally offending large portions of his audience. Just my personal take/opinion. Obviously others, especially those who agree with his philosophy, will disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 10 2012, 03:07 PM) Putting down a totalitarian regime is one thing. Putting down people's heartfelt beliefs, which Neil seems to be doing recently in songs and blogs, to me crosses the line and moves into the realm of personally offending large portions of his audience. Just my personal take/opinion. Obviously others, especially those who agree with his philosophy, will disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 How about an update on when the F$ck they are going to release it ? Something tells me that the death of their photographer is going to push this back even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobodys hero Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (metaldad @ Feb 10 2012, 01:21 PM) Something tells me that the death of their photographer is going to push this back even more. ^^ I agree with this It sounds like it's going to be a great album! I love the concept idea, the release can't come soon enough! Edited February 10, 2012 by nobodys hero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 When I read the description of what the story will be it sounds like a version of Pinocchio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (metaldad @ Feb 10 2012, 04:21 PM) How about an update on when the F$ck they are going to release it ? I totally agree...that's the part we all want to hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grand phil-nale Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (metaldad @ Feb 10 2012, 03:21 PM) How about an update on when the F$ck they are going to release it ? Something tells me that the death of their photographer is going to push this back even more. I say early May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyLeeFender Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Feb 10 2012, 03:43 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Feb 10 2012, 03:21 PM) How about an update on when the F$ck they are going to release it ? Something tells me that the death of their photographer is going to push this back even more. I say early May. Hopefully man...new Rush is needed in my library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 10 2012, 02:07 PM) Putting down a totalitarian regime is one thing. Putting down people's heartfelt beliefs, which Neil seems to be doing recently in songs and blogs, to me crosses the line and moves into the realm of personally offending large portions of his audience. Just my personal take/opinion. Obviously others, especially those who agree with his philosophy, will disagree. The hypocrisy is almost mind numbing. Christians absolutely LOVE to preach their beliefs - ad-nauseum - to people who don't share their faith - to the extent that they want to literally dictate how other people should think, feel and live. A recent example is "one million moms" - a large Christian group who's "heartfelt beliefs" include, among other things, discriminating against gay people. They literally called for the firing (yes, the firing) of Ellen Degenerous as JC Pennys new spokesperson because her sexuality doesn't jibe with their "heartfelt beliefs". That, my freind, is called a witchunt. Do you think they care at all about who they are offending?? Should Neil take their feelings into account before penning new lyrics? If he feels strongly about a subject, should he filter himself out of "fear" that he may polarize his audience? Should he worry about offending a Muslim? (Interestingly, you don't hear Christians defending muslim groups on these boards?? Apparently, christian faith is the only one worthy of defense against mean ole Neil Peart Any large religious group that dictates how others should live are open to scrutiny and criticism - Christians being of no exception. Having said that - Neils writings and lyrics are not designed to soley discriminate against Christian faith. This is an illusion. In addition to voicing his feelings about "faith" and the many hypocrisies of the Catholic church, He clearly speaks out against outdated Middle Eastern philosiphies that cause harm to others under the guise of religious piety. Either way - these are universal themes totally appropriate for discussion in song or poetry. To say that he "should or should not" talk about a subject is pretty ludicrous. Edited February 10, 2012 by eshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 And for the record there is no "backlash" against Neil or the band based on his choice of subject matter - as evidenced by their growing success over the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undemanding Contact Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Feb 9 2012, 07:17 PM)...In a young man's quest to follow his dreams, he is caught between the grandiose forces of order and chaos. He travels across a lavish and colorful world of steampunk and alchemy, with lost cities, pirates, anarchists, exotic carnivals, and a rigid Watchmaker who imposes precision on every aspect of daily life... I really like the sound of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thizzellewashington Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I don't want to live to see the day when Neil doesn't write a song because he's worried it'll offend people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielmclark Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Feb 10 2012, 02:43 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Feb 10 2012, 03:21 PM) How about an update on when the F$ck they are going to release it ? Something tells me that the death of their photographer is going to push this back even more. I say early May. I just hope they pick a date that's close, not far away. I'll be climbing on a bus, just me and my guitar, to go to the record store to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (eshine @ Feb 10 2012, 05:34 PM) Christians absolutely LOVE to preach their beliefs - ad-nauseum - to people who don't share their faith - to the extent that they want to literally dictate how other people should think, feel and live. Really eh? You're pretty sure of yourself to generalize all Christians like that. Listen, I'm a Christian. I can tell you straight up that I don't go around telling anyone how to live their lives, nor do I spend any of my days worrying about those that think differently than me. I don't care. People are free to think, feel, and live whatever way they want. None of my business...just as I would expect others to treat me the same in that regard. Besides, that "hypocrisy" that you speak of can easily be looked at from both sides. BOTH 'believers' and 'non-believers' are guilty of this. I think that's Goobs ultimate point...I know it's mine: Just leave the topic alone altogether. No need for it in Rush songs. Neil is a smart enough boy...the guy can write, and there are literally thousands of concepts and ideas out there that he could write about! Bottom line...I don't care either way. I'm stoked about a new record...and I really just want this thing to get released ASAP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Undemanding Contact @ Feb 10 2012, 05:38 PM) QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Feb 9 2012, 07:17 PM)...In a young man's quest to follow his dreams, he is caught between the grandiose forces of order and chaos. He travels across a lavish and colorful world of steampunk and alchemy, with lost cities, pirates, anarchists, exotic carnivals, and a rigid Watchmaker who imposes precision on every aspect of daily life... I really like the sound of that. Me too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielmclark Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Feb 10 2012, 03:46 PM) QUOTE (eshine @ Feb 10 2012, 05:34 PM) Christians absolutely LOVE to preach their beliefs - ad-nauseum - to people who don't share their faith - to the extent that they want to literally dictate how other people should think, feel and live. Really eh? You're pretty sure of yourself to generalize all Christians like that. Listen, I'm a Christian. I can tell you straight up that I don't go around telling anyone how to live their lives, nor do I spend any of my days worrying about those that think differently than me. I don't care. People are free to think, feel, and live whatever way they want. None of my business...just as I would expect others to treat me the same in that regard. Besides, that "hypocrisy" that you speak of can easily be looked at from both sides. BOTH 'believers' and 'non-believers' are guilty of this. I think that's Goobs ultimate point...I know it's mine: Just leave the topic alone altogether. No need for it in Rush songs. Neil is a smart enough boy...the guy can write, and there are literally thousands of concepts and ideas out there that he could write about! Bottom line...I don't care either way. I'm stoked about a new record...and I really just want this thing to get released ASAP! I know where you're coming from, and I'm on board with the idea that not all Christians are like that. However. On the one hand, you're saying that people should live their lives and you wouldn't tell them how to do it, on the other hand, you're saying that Neil shouldn't write about a subject simply because you don't want him to. See? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now