Is Rap Music?

[Oracle]

QUOTE (invisible airwave @ May 23 2011, 05:41 PM)

I love old school rap and hip hop so it's music to me, especially hip hop with live instruments and a jazzy vibe to it.

Speaking of rap with a jazzy vibe, Miles Davis' album "Doo-Bop" started the Jazz Rap genre. Pretty awesome album actually. If he had lived to actually complete the full album (it was released in 1992, he died in '91), it would have been another "Bitches Brew" type of period for him.

[Good,bad,andrush]

QUOTE (Oracle @ May 23 2011, 11:01 PM)

QUOTE (invisible airwave @ May 23 2011, 05:41 PM) I love old school rap and hip hop so it's music to me, especially hip hop with live instruments and a jazzy vibe to it. Speaking of rap with a jazzy vibe, Miles Davis' album "Doo-Bop" started the Jazz Rap genre. Pretty awesome album actually. If he had lived to actually complete the full album (it was released in 1992, he died in '91), it would have been another "Bitches Brew" type of period for him. Miles Davis kicks so much ass.

[Xanadude69]

Just like any other form of music the mainstream stuff is usually shit. Rap is no different. But for me the "good underground stuff" is also shit IMO

 

There is little to no melody in rap, its all rhythm and beats (which is a big part of music) and it just doesn't hold me attention.

 

I think we can all agree that writing a rock song with bass, guitar, drums, lyrics and vocal melody takes much more skill than writing lyrics, creating a generic electronic drum beat and sampling other people's music to create a "song"

 

and at the end of the day you can't spell 'crap' without rap

[WCFIELDS]

QUOTE (Xanadude69 @ May 23 2011, 10:28 PM)

Just like any other form of music the mainstream stuff is usually shit. Rap is no different. But for me the "good underground stuff" is also shit IMO There is little to no melody in rap, its all rhythm and beats (which is a big part of music) and it just doesn't hold me attention. I think we can all agree that writing a rock song with bass, guitar, drums, lyrics and vocal melody takes much more skill than writing lyrics, creating a generic electronic drum beat and sampling other people's music to create a "song" and at the end of the day you can't spell 'crap' without rap

this post pretty much echoes my thoughts...

[Good,bad,andrush]

QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ May 23 2011, 11:33 PM)

QUOTE (Xanadude69 @ May 23 2011, 10:28 PM) Just like any other form of music the mainstream stuff is usually shit. Rap is no different. But for me the "good underground stuff" is also shit IMO There is little to no melody in rap, its all rhythm and beats (which is a big part of music) and it just doesn't hold me attention. I think we can all agree that writing a rock song with bass, guitar, drums, lyrics and vocal melody takes much more skill than writing lyrics, creating a generic electronic drum beat and sampling other people's music to create a "song" and at the end of the day you can't spell 'crap' without rap this post pretty much echoes my thoughts... Also, if you think rapping takes more talent that rocking, something is veery wrong with you. The greatest rapping takes more talent than a good deal of rock, but even the most talented rapper has nothing on more technical rock or lyrics like natural science. And rush music or what we consider talented music, is actually not much compared to jazz or classical.     Also, i have tried rapping. I really don't like it, but i was improvising and I impressed everyone listening and they had no idea I could be that good. It was a contest and I won. However, nobody cares about my real lyrics, which took me a lot more trouble to write and a lot of studying to do.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Good,bad,andrush

[invisibleairwaves]

QUOTE (Xanadude69 @ May 23 2011, 08:28 PM)

I think we can all agree that writing a rock song with bass, guitar, drums, lyrics and vocal melody takes much more skill than writing lyrics, creating a generic electronic drum beat and sampling other people's music to create a "song"

Not true at all, actually. The style of songwriting used in the majority of rock music is incredibly formulaic. There are plenty of people out there who can crank out a tune in a few minutes. Meanwhile, there are many, many hip hop productions that are far more complex and musically involved than your oversimplified and untrue generalization suggests.

 

QUOTE

and at the end of the day you can't spell 'crap' without rap

 

I guess it was only a matter of time before someone regurgitated this utterly moronic and unoriginal quip

Edited May 24, 2011 by invisibleairwaves

[RUSHHEAD666]

QUOTE (invisibleairwaves @ May 22 2011, 11:33 PM)

QUOTE (RUSHHEAD666 @ May 22 2011, 10:09 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ May 22 2011, 01:06 PM) I don't think so. Rap sucks! I mean, I don't really care about you talking about your personal life over a fake drum beat with no real instruments! Without instruments, there is no music! You're stupid! I might be showing my age here but the old school rap from the late Seventies and Early Eighties is brilliant.   Once Public Enema, I mean Enemy came into the stream it was pretty much over for me, although I did enjoy the first Easy Earl, I mean E cd.   Liked the NWA shit too.   After that forget it.   But let's back up a bit.   The old school stuff was great.   I'm talking about groups like Grandmaster Flash, Sugar Hill Gang, RUN DMC, Whodini, early LL COOL J and of course the Beastie Boys.   Rap in the modern age is pure shit.   There is no hope for this genre of garbage.   Signed,   THE KING OF ROCK!         Please pick up "Raising Hell" by RUN DMC ASAP!   RIP JAM MASTER JAY! See, this is something else I don't get, and this isn't just about rap. It doesn't make any sense to say that everything new from any particular genre is and always will be terrible. Musicians aren't all connected to some big hive mind. There wasn't some memo that got sent out to everyone 20 years ago telling everyone to STOP BEING GOOD NOW. Out of the thousands and thousands of individuals making music in any genre, it's basically guaranteed that someone somewhere is making something that's as good as the old stuff. That applies to rap, rock, country, jazz, whatever. So next time someone wants to complain about how all the new music sucks, maybe they should consider that the problem isn't the music, it's you I can't be the problem. The problem is the shit the brainwash the masses with these days.   I have two daughters 14 and 10 and I have to tolerate their music on the weekends so I hear everything: Modern rap, pop, country, R&B, all of it. I can tolerate it but I can't relate. I am sure you watched the Bill"Bored" Music Awards last night and loved it.   Pure shite.   ROCK IS DEAD!   Signed,   Lenny Kravitz

[RUSHHEAD666]

"I'm the leader of the show keeping you on the go and I know I can't live without my radio!"

 

 

I NEED LOVE

[J0N]

QUOTE (Xanadude69 @ May 24 2011, 05:28 AM)

I think we can all agree that writing a rock song with bass, guitar, drums, lyrics and vocal melody takes much more skill than writing lyrics, creating a generic electronic drum beat and sampling other people's music to create a "song"

Ignoring the fact that your point is wrong, why would it matter at all if one type of music is 'easier' to write than the other?

[Ancient Ways]

QUOTE (J0N @ May 24 2011, 03:39 AM)

QUOTE (Xanadude69 @ May 24 2011, 05:28 AM) I think we can all agree that writing a rock song with bass, guitar, drums, lyrics and vocal melody takes much more skill than writing lyrics, creating a generic electronic drum beat and sampling other people's music to create a "song" Ignoring the fact that your point is wrong, why would it matter at all if one type of music is 'easier' to write than the other? This is a great point. Complexity has nothing to do with the definition of music. I think too much rap is formulaic and crappy these days but some of it is good and it is a musical form whether you like it or not.

[trenken]

QUOTE (J0N @ May 24 2011, 02:39 AM)

QUOTE (Xanadude69 @ May 24 2011, 05:28 AM) I think we can all agree that writing a rock song with bass, guitar, drums, lyrics and vocal melody takes much more skill than writing lyrics, creating a generic electronic drum beat and sampling other people's music to create a "song" Ignoring the fact that your point is wrong, why would it matter at all if one type of music is 'easier' to write than the other? He's another one of those ignorant dopes that doesnt think there's any skill involved in creating rap.   Ive been playing bass for a long time, Ive been able to play all Rush since I was about 16, and write music and lyrics, and do all the drums, guitars, synths and sound FX using Logic on my Mac, but I cannot put together a decent rap song to save my life.   What does it usually end up sounding like? Roll The Bones. Thats what you get when you dont have the acquired skill of writing good rap music. You end up with that awful bullshit that Rush attempted. So would you look at that, not even Rush could do it right, with all their experience writing music.   It is not easier to write a truly great rap song, regardless of what anyone ever thinks. Its the same as rock. Its pretty easier to put together some piece of shit rock song, much hard to write a great one. Exact same thing in rap. He's probably just a racist that hates anyone different than him, one of these tools that thinks rock is the only thing that deserves respect.   Rap as difficult in its own way. I remember seeing an interview with Killah Priest, whos lyrics I posted earlier, who said he would work for 6 months on some of his lyrics, as long as Neil ever spent on most of his.

Edited May 24, 2011 by trenken

[trenken]

Here's another example, from the band Live when they tried to do rap. Now I LOVE this band, one of my all time fav's, and Alex is a big fan of theirs, but they do not have the ability to write good rap music.

 

This is so embarassing to listen to. Guys that do not work on becoming great rap artists end up writing bullshit rap lyrics like this, and honestly I believe Ed is as good of a lyricist as Neil is, and I think his style is even better than Neils because its not so robotic and lifeless, and this is the shit he came up with for a rap song. They have no idea how to make words actually be able to stand up on their own without all this technical music backing it up.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xnKjKn_Wr0

Edited May 24, 2011 by trenken

[ReRushed]

Chuck Berry and Bob Dylan wrote Rap songs.

[ghostworks]

remember: music isn't a 'contest'

 

 

[thizzellewashington]

Nothing I don't like can be considered "music." Sorry.

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (trenken @ May 24 2011, 03:12 PM)

Here's another example, from the band Live when they tried to do rap. Now I LOVE this band, one of my all time fav's, and Alex is a big fan of theirs, but they do not have the ability to write good rap music. This is so embarassing to listen to. Guys that do not work on becoming great rap artists end up writing bullshit rap lyrics like this, and honestly I believe Ed is as good of a lyricist as Neil is, and I think his style is even better than Neils because its not so robotic and lifeless, and this is the shit he came up with for a rap song. They have no idea how to make words actually be able to stand up on their own without all this technical music backing it up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xnKjKn_Wr0

I wouldn't call that a rap song. Not even close .I don't think that's what they were attempting to do.

[In A Tidewater Surge]

QUOTE (thizzellewashington @ May 24 2011, 02:29 PM)

Nothing I don't like can be considered "music." Sorry.

[fledgehog]

QUOTE (thizzellewashington @ May 24 2011, 05:29 PM)

Nothing I don't like can be considered "music." Sorry.

are you f***ing serious?

[Xanadu93]

Sweet Celestia, he just trolled everyone... including me

[Silas Lang]

If rap used real instruments, there would be real bands which means there would be real musicians who would have got bored with the guy up front shouting bad poetry a long time ago and moved on to real music.

 

Rap has the same relationship to music that feces has to food. Everything worthwhile has been removed and what's left over stinks. But of course, it's just a matter of taste, right?

 

I like music, not non-stop talking over a simple repetitive beat.

 

[In A Tidewater Surge]

Silas, your mother was a drunk, wasn't she?

[Tommy Sawyer]

QUOTE (Silas Lang @ May 24 2011, 09:48 PM)

If rap used real instruments, there would be real bands which means there would be real musicians who would have got bored with the guy up front shouting bad poetry a long time ago and moved on to real music. Rap has the same relationship to music that feces has to food. Everything worthwhile has been removed and what's left over stinks. But of course, it's just a matter of taste, right? I like music, not non-stop talking over a simple repetitive beat.

[fledgehog]

To everyone who thinks rap is inferior because the music is less technical than rock:

 

-first of all, the vast majority of mainstream rock, pop, and subgenres thereof are based on equally simplistic ostinato instrumental parts. and by discrediting the use of loops, samples, and synthesized beats, you're not only discrediting rap, but you're dissing every other form of electronic music there is (instrumental bands like Ozric Tentacles and Shpongle included). Most *GOOD* rap and hip-hop beats are heavily layered and extremely musically crafted, and if i sat you down behind a computer with a copy of Pro Tools and a good pair of studio monitors and told you to make a "simple repeated rap beat", i bet you'd have absolutely no idea where to start.

 

-second of all, the rapping style of lyric delivery is incredibly difficult and very impressive when done correctly. It requires a knowledge of rhythm and a sense of time that is arguably greater than the rhythmic understanding required to sing a song of some other genre. Because, with some exceptions, there is no melody, the choice of words and the crafting of the line, stanza and entire song becomes far more important. it's just like writing a good melodic line, except without the melody, and good rappers make extensive use of syncopation and interesting rhythms.

 

-third of all, most, if not all genres of lyric music are, at the core, people "talking about their problems". country (which gets a lot of flack around here too), folk, blues, and to an extent, vocal jazz, are all centered around a narrative, balladic style of songwriting. while some genres like metal and progressive rock branch out into more abstract subjects, keep in mind where they came from, and also keep in mind that even among abstract lyrics and science-fiction epic stories, the BEST are the ones that have some sort of first-hand sincerity behind them. How is rap any different?

 

-and finally, comparing rap to a genre like rock or prog is not fair in the slightest. They are polar opposites stylistically. There is no way to claim that one genre requires "more skill" than another (and be correct about it). Okay, so a class-act rapper may not be able to sit down and churn out Natural Science, but likewise, Geddy Lee would be equally as bad at writing even a single verse of rap that has a good flow, fits the music, and comes out sounding confident and well-executed. It's like the age-old debate between jazz musicians and classical musicians...both require their own unique skill set, and neither requires more skill than the other.

 

this thread literally makes me feel sick to my stomach. i will no longer be responding to it. and i'm sure those of you who think that my logical, well-reasoned arguments are 'pretentious" will be glad for that, but i really couldn't give two f*cks whether or not i make you happy.

[In A Tidewater Surge]

QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 24 2011, 07:21 PM)

To everyone who thinks rap is inferior because the music is less technical than rock: -first of all, the vast majority of mainstream rock, pop, and subgenres thereof are based on equally simplistic ostinato instrumental parts. and by discrediting the use of loops, samples, and synthesized beats, you're not only discrediting rap, but you're dissing every other form of electronic music there is (instrumental bands like Ozric Tentacles and Shpongle included). Most *GOOD* rap and hip-hop beats are heavily layered and extremely musically crafted, and if i sat you down behind a computer with a copy of Pro Tools and a good pair of studio monitors and told you to make a "simple repeated rap beat", i bet you'd have absolutely no idea where to start. -second of all, the rapping style of lyric delivery is incredibly difficult and very impressive when done correctly. It requires a knowledge of rhythm and a sense of time that is arguably greater than the rhythmic understanding required to sing a song of some other genre. Because, with some exceptions, there is no melody, the choice of words and the crafting of the line, stanza and entire song becomes far more important. it's just like writing a good melodic line, except without the melody, and good rappers make extensive use of syncopation and interesting rhythms. -third of all, most, if not all genres of lyric music are, at the core, people "talking about their problems". country (which gets a lot of flack around here too), folk, blues, and to an extent, vocal jazz, are all centered around a narrative, balladic style of songwriting. while some genres like metal and progressive rock branch out into more abstract subjects, keep in mind where they came from, and also keep in mind that even among abstract lyrics and science-fiction epic stories, the BEST are the ones that have some sort of first-hand sincerity behind them. How is rap any different? -and finally, comparing rap to a genre like rock or prog is not fair in the slightest. They are polar opposites stylistically. There is no way to claim that one genre requires "more skill" than another (and be correct about it). Okay, so a class-act rapper may not be able to sit down and churn out Natural Science, but likewise, Geddy Lee would be equally as bad at writing even a single verse of rap that has a good flow, fits the music, and comes out sounding confident and well-executed. It's like the age-old debate between jazz musicians and classical musicians...both require their own unique skill set, and neither requires more skill than the other. this thread literally makes me feel sick to my stomach. i will no longer be responding to it. and i'm sure those of you who think that my logical, well-reasoned arguments are 'pretentious" will be glad for that, but i really couldn't give two f*cks whether or not i make you happy.

Pretentious tw**

[Maverick]

It is music that is usually heavy on rhythm and beat, but light on melody.

 

It takes all kinds.