Is Rap Music?

[Tommy Sawyer]

I don't think so.

 

Rap sucks! I mean, I don't really care about you talking about your personal life over a fake drum beat with no real instruments! Without instruments, there is no music! You're stupid!

[CMWriter]

Believe it or not, it does take some amount of musical and rhythmic knowledge and lyrical intuition to write a good, respectable rap. (And they do exist.. also, believe it or not.)

 

So, yes, I would say that, at least in some cases, rap is music. The quality of that rap depends on the individual.

[ghostworks]

like most music in general, 98% of it is crap

 

rap/hip hop is no exception

 

the sweet spot from that 2%, though?

 

...phenomenal

 

if patience isn't your virtue, some guidance from a well-traveled rap/hip hop fan will help immensely

 

there will always be styles/artists/genres that don't thrill you, but no one should dismiss any genre out of hand without a lot of exploration first - that kind of knee-jerk reaction comes from lack of self confidence

 

I should know - I was a bona fide "I like all kinds of music except country and rap!" teenager

 

 

[Principled Man]

The "rap" is the lyrics. There is no real music involved, IMO.

 

The rap lyrics may be poetic and have a good rhythm, but is it what we call "music"? I say NO. They can put a drum beat to it (real drums or recorded), but I still don't think it's music.

 

But whatever trips your trigger! If it pleases people, creates a large following and becomes successful, then so what? More power to the "artists" who do it. Sure, they can join the rap lyrics with a real band, and why not? There's no law against it.

 

The only thing that disturbs me is the violence-loving, misogynist, gangsta rap that gets made. That is pure garbage.....

[J0N]

Just because you don't like something, it doesn't mean it isn't music.

 

Rap is music, and theres some great stuff out there, along with a whole bunch of crap.

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (J0N @ May 22 2011, 04:11 PM)

Just because you don't like something, it doesn't mean it isn't music.

Similarly, just because you like something doesn't mean it is music.

 

It depends on how you define "music", doesn't it? If there aren't any musical instruments involved, then why should it be defined as music? If just one person is singing a "song", with no musical instruments involved, is it music?

 

Does the artistic piece contain pitch, melody, rhythm, dynamics, timbre or texture? If it's just a guy uttering lyrics to a simple beat, is it music? It could be really cool, really entertaining, but is it MUSIC?

 

[Oracle]

I think it's narrow minded to say that there is no real instrumentation in rap. The group A Tribe Called Quest has a great drummer, Questlove, who's put down some of the best beats I've heard. Not to mention that rap itself revolves around some basic beat like any song. Is there bad rap out there? Oh, most definitely. But don't say that it's all bad when you're only hearing whatever the mainstream radio shoves down your throat and into your ears. Rap acts like Eyedea & Abilities, A Tribe Called Quest, OFWGKTA (Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill Them All), Tyler The Creator, Tinie Tempah, De La Soul...there is so much that goes unheard to the masses.

[Good,bad,andrush]

QUOTE (Oracle @ May 22 2011, 04:24 PM)

I think it's narrow minded to say that there is no real instrumentation in rap. The group A Tribe Called Quest has a great drummer, Questlove, who's put down some of the best beats I've heard. Not to mention that rap itself revolves around some basic beat like any song. Is there bad rap out there? Oh, most definitely. But don't say that it's all bad when you're only hearing whatever the mainstream radio shoves down your throat and into your ears. Rap acts like Eyedea & Abilities, A Tribe Called Quest, OFWGKTA (Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill Them All), Tyler The Creator, Tinie Tempah, De La Soul...there is so much that goes unheard to the masses.

I heard some of those bands (with an open mind and so that people wouldn't say that I haven't heard "real" rap) and they still do nothing for me, but I still think it is better than other more mainstream rap acts. But rap will never do anything for me.

 

It just does nothing for me and I am indifferent to this argument, because it's a really pointless argument. I hope we can all just agree, especially on this forum, that MOST rap is hardly music. Some rap is more musical than other rap, and a lot of rap is just barely music, conveying only one or few element(s) of what defines music. Then again, how does one define music? Well who knows, but Workaholic Man gave a fairly good definition of what I think it is.

[CMWriter]

QUOTE (ghostworks @ May 22 2011, 03:45 PM)

like most music in general, 98% of it is crap rap/hip hop is no exception the sweet spot from that 2%, though? ...phenomenal if patience isn't your virtue, some guidance from a well-traveled rap/hip hop fan will help immensely there will always be styles/artists/genres that don't thrill you, but no one should dismiss any genre out of hand without a lot of exploration first - that kind of knee-jerk reaction comes from lack of self confidence I should know - I was a bona fide "I like all kinds of music except country and rap!" teenager

This post is brilliant.

I sometimes don't - often don't - agree with what you say/post, GW, but here I think you've hit the nail on the head.

 

I try to never say "I don't like ANY (insert genre here)". I thought I felt that way about country until I heard "Just a Dream" and "Crazy Game of Poker". Then I was like, "eh, okay, some of it's good".

 

Unfortunately good rap is rarely, rarely, rarely mainstream. And that's where problems arise.. as with a lot of music. :C

[The Big Money]

Rap is not real music.

[circumstantial tree]

Call it whatever. I don't like it. And I have no interest in locating the so-called good rap.

[Mr. Not]

I don't like it, but it's undeniably music.

 

I mean, even that where song that is literally silence for a period of time is considered music. If anyone knows the name of it, please remind me.

[ReRushed]

Yes, it is music. I love reading how people rationalize that it is not music. Keep trying...

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ May 22 2011, 04:55 PM)

Yes, it is music. I love reading how people rationalize that it is not music. Keep trying...

OK, could you please explain how rap = music? What is it about rap that makes it music? This is an interesting debate, and I'm genuinely interested in knowing.....

[Tarkus406]

Well, unfortunately it is considered music. Most of it is pretty bad. Some of it is better than others (im talking about the ones who use real instruments, drums, bass, etc..) but most is just electronically programmed MIDI garbage with no respectable message. I don't even like the good rap, since it's rap and I don't like rap, but it's still music.

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ May 22 2011, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE (ReRushed @ May 22 2011, 04:55 PM) Yes, it is music. I love reading how people rationalize that it is not music. Keep trying... OK, could you please explain how rap = music? What is it about rap that makes it music? This is an interesting debate, and I'm genuinely interested in knowing..... Because if falls under the definition of what music is. That's why it's music. Simple. Not liking it doesn't make it not music.   Music   Music   Music   Music

[ioc]

Poll needs a couple more options. My vote would have been something to the effect of: "Of course, even though I don't love rap."

 

I can't say that it is unarguably music, because if the internet has taught us anything, it is that anything is arguable.

 

That said, rap (the label used here for spoken or chanted rhyming lyrics performed in time to a beat) is an art form whose medium is sound; therefore qualifying it as music, if not one of the oldest forms.

 

Love it or hate it, accept it or reject it, it's still music.

[J0N]

Edited May 22, 2011 by J0N

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (ioc @ May 22 2011, 05:19 PM)

I can't say that it is unarguably music, because if the internet has taught us anything, it is that anything is arguable. That said, rap (the label used here for spoken or chanted rhyming lyrics performed in time to a beat) is an art form whose medium is sound; therefore qualifying it as music, if not one of the oldest forms.

^^^ OK, this is a decent argument for defending rap as a form of music.

 

QUOTE

I find it funny how people always seem to begin and/or end an argument against rap exclaiming their dislike for for it.

 

Not everyone does that, thankfully. The big sticking point for most people, IMO, is the frequent lack of musical instruments, and perhaps also the lack of actual singing.....it's just so radically different than what we've experienced all these past generations.....

[fledgehog]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ May 22 2011, 04:06 PM)

I don't think so. Rap sucks! I mean, I don't really care about you talking about your personal life over a fake drum beat with no real instruments! Without instruments, there is no music! You're stupid!

oh boy, not this topic again

 

Rap does not in fact have anything to do with the music and instrumentation (or lack thereof), it's a style of lyric delivery, and it's been done over every sort of backing track from electronic/hip-hop to rock to jazz. Plenty of rap groups have real musicians in them (sometimes in addition to synth or computer "players"). And it does take a legitimate knowledge of music to create a good beat. It also takes a good sense of rhythm to rap over it.

 

It is true that most of the rap that gets mainstream exposure is pretty horrible and talentless, but how is that any different from the kind of rock that gets mainstream exposure, the kind of pop that gets mainstream exposure, etc...? It's okay to dislike or even hate a certain genre, but it's not okay to discredit it or accuse it of "not being music" without doing a little research first.

[J0N]

Well, almost all rap has a drum track at the very least, and most heavily utilize samples and synths, whilst others use guitars and basses as already mentioned in this thread.

In terms of vocals, Gil Scott-Heron's Jazz poetry and Soul was about way back in the early 70s, and is far more stripped down, so to speak, than even rap, but people don't seem to kick up a fuss about GSH 'not being music'

[circumstantial tree]

Shit is brown in color and chocolate is brown in color. The former is something people prefer to be rid of or flushed down the toilet, while the latter is loved and ingested by most everyone.

 

Therefore the label "brown" is no indication of redeeming quality. And neither is the label "music", especially where rap is concerned.

[J0N]

really..?

[skalamander2112]

QUOTE (Kenneth @ May 22 2011, 04:55 PM)

I don't like it, but it's undeniably music. I mean, even that where song that is literally silence for a period of time is considered music. If anyone knows the name of it, please remind me.

"4'33" by John Cage

[fledgehog]

QUOTE (skalamander2112 @ May 22 2011, 08:14 PM)

QUOTE (Kenneth @ May 22 2011, 04:55 PM) I don't like it, but it's undeniably music. I mean, even that where song that is literally silence for a period of time is considered music. If anyone knows the name of it, please remind me. "4'33" by John Cage Cage is a total gimmick composer, and 4'33" is a stupid piece. The concept is interesting, but the execution is pretentious...that's actually one piece of "music" that i would go so far as to say isn't actually music.

Edited May 23, 2011 by fledgehog