Thunder Bay Rush Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) There has been a ton of accusations about Kiss' Paul Stanley lip synching on the current tour. I've seen a few clips where it sure does look he's doing that. The outrage is fair because people are paying for a live show. Eddie Trunk has a good piece on it this week. Now for Rush... (my favourite band) it's known that since about 1985 or so they used sequencers to add in additional keyboard parts that Geddy just couldn't play live. I've also heard pre-recorded backing vocals being used during live Rush shows as well. It sure looks like Alex is lip synching his "backing vocals" which is because the guy is a horrible singer. During Neil's solo, we hear a horn section that he plays along to. I never really heard any complaints about any of this and not much was ever said about it. One of the things that drew me to Rush in the first place was how three guys made such a huge sound live. Neil's additional percussion, Lifeson played Taurus pedals, different types of guitars and a guitar synth, and of course, Lee played double neck, synths, Taurus pedals... sometimes all in the same song (Xanadu would be one example.) I think that if a show is a live show, there should be NO sounds taped in. If I was at a Kiss show, I'd demand my goddam money back. Edited February 14, 2019 by Thunder Bay Rush 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 This is no criticism about this present thread, but there was a thread discussing this very topic on here a few years back. If I remember correctly, most here felt like you - that they were disappointed in Rush for doing that. It's never been easy to translate album material into concert songs. I remember always being disappointed back in the 1970's whenever I went to a concert precisely for that reason - the songs never sounded the same. There was one exception - Frampton Comes Alive sounded the same during the Frampton Comes Alive tour. :D 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunter Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) I didn't mind Rush doing it at first. because they were at least triggering everything live in the moment. But Geddy started to get lazy in later tours and sequenced things that should've been easy enough to play live. But at the very least he always sang live. Kiss is just ripping people off, no matter what some folks here say. We've started trying to trigger some things in our gigs. If you go without a click track, it's pretty tricky. Edited February 14, 2019 by edhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Something is either live, or it isn't.....I have never been a fan of bands augmenting their sounds with triggers or samples. As for Rush, they were more than good enough musicians to do stripped down completely live versions of the songs, and it is indeed disappointing they chose not to do that......on the night, no one really cares whether a piddly little background keyboard fill is there or not....the audience just wants the artist to rock. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Now for Rush... (my favourite band) it's known that since about 1985 or so they used sequencers to add in additional keyboard parts that Geddy just couldn't play live. I've also heard pre-recorded backing vocals being used during live Rush shows as well. It sure looks like Alex is lip synching his "backing vocals" which is because the guy is a horrible singer. Isn't Alex actually singing (non-mic'ed) and triggering vocals? Here's the thread Lorraine referenced... http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/82749-alexs-back-up-vocals/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Alex rocking the vocals here... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I think that if a show is a live show, there should be NO sounds taped in. So you'd be OK if 2112 started out without the whoosh? No "By-Tor" growls during the instrumental section? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I agree that stripped down performances would be more musically interesting - the idea is to experience what the musicians do best - performance over (re)production. Not too interested in reading long interviews in which the band talks about all the crew guys in the back plugging diskettes into computers and all that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Permanent-Rush Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I don't mind some sequenced sounds here and there, but unless it's a music video, I CAN NOT Stand lip sycnhed preformances, PERIOD!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fridge Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I think that if a show is a live show, there should be NO sounds taped in. So you'd be OK if 2112 started out without the whoosh? No "By-Tor" growls during the instrumental section? granted, the whoosh for 2112 is important, but would you really give a monkeys about the bass growls?...they're not really important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I think that if a show is a live show, there should be NO sounds taped in. So you'd be OK if 2112 started out without the whoosh? No "By-Tor" growls during the instrumental section? granted, the whoosh for 2112 is important, but would you really give a monkeys about the bass growls?...they're not really important. You're disenfranchising By-Tor. He deserves a voice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunter Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Milli Vanilli gets their career ruined and one eventually commits suicide. KISS says "f**k you" and people pay $200+. Paul's gonna drop dead of a heart attack during Lick It Up, and his voice will go right on singing while his corpse is lying on stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Bay Rush Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 I think that if a show is a live show, there should be NO sounds taped in. So you'd be OK if 2112 started out without the whoosh? No "By-Tor" growls during the instrumental section? Good point... I guess if there are parts that can only be heard if they're sampled in, like the opening of 2112, then fine. But, that's the opening to a song. For By Tor, do one of the guys trigger those sounds with Taurus pedals? If so, that's okay because they are just sounds ... even noises. But, why would it be so hard for Geddy to actually play the opening of 2112? When Huge Syme did it on a Mellotrone, it was probably so heavily produced in the studio that it couldn't be played live. I guess... During the rap part in Roll The Bones, Geddy could have done that live. It was his voice used in the studio. The soundman could have those settings ready to go on the board. Live is always better when it's possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Milli Vanilli gets their career ruined and one eventually commits suicide. KISS says "f**k you" and people pay $200+. Paul's gonna drop dead of a heart attack during Lick It Up, and his voice will go right on singing while his corpse is lying on stage. Aren't they already "lying on stage"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Bay Rush Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 Milli Vanilli gets their career ruined and one eventually commits suicide. KISS says "f**k you" and people pay $200+. Paul's gonna drop dead of a heart attack during Lick It Up, and his voice will go right on singing while his corpse is lying on stage. Yes, very sad. These guys don't need the cash, so why they are embarrassing themselves is beyond me. I watched a few youtubes on the latest tour and it's nothing more than a constant fireworks display with old dudes in costumes and make up. They sound so bad. If it really is the "final tour" it should have been done with Ace and Peter. Even if they still sounded like shit, at least it would be THE band that 95% of people want. But, they just can't put all the arguing and bullshit aside and do it for the fans. Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) But, why would it be so hard for Geddy to actually play the opening of 2112? When Huge Syme did it on a Mellotrone, it was probably so heavily produced in the studio that it couldn't be played live. I guess... Actually it was an ARP Odyssey synthesiser... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARP_Odyssey I seem to recall reading that it took a bit of time to assemble it, I would imagine it would be tough to recreate live. A similar synth was used by Pete Townshend on Won't Get Fooled Again, which The Who always played live using a tape. Geddy said in an interview years ago that the 2112 intro was in fact the soundtrack of the accompanying film. Edited February 14, 2019 by Lurkst 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thizzellewashington Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I don't care about Rush using triggers for synth parts because they have to actively hit the pedal or the drum pad at the right time to trigger the right sample. If anything, it's more work, not a crutch. Big difference to me between that and what KISS is doing. But if you're buying a ticket for a KISS show in 2019 you should know what you're signing up for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Bay Rush Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 But, why would it be so hard for Geddy to actually play the opening of 2112? When Huge Syme did it on a Mellotrone, it was probably so heavily produced in the studio that it couldn't be played live. I guess... Actually it was an ARP Odyssey synthesiser... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARP_Odyssey I seem to recall reading that it took a bit of time to assemble it, I would imagine it would be tough to recreate live. A similar synth was used by Pete Townshend on Won't Get Fooled Again, which The Who always played live using a tape. Geddy said in an interview years ago that the 2112 intro was in fact the soundtrack of the accompanying film. Yes, it was an ARP. What the hell was I thinking? Mellotrone... that's a "Watcher of the Skies" Genesis type deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 But, why would it be so hard for Geddy to actually play the opening of 2112? When Huge Syme did it on a Mellotrone, it was probably so heavily produced in the studio that it couldn't be played live. I guess... Actually it was an ARP Odyssey synthesiser... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARP_Odyssey I seem to recall reading that it took a bit of time to assemble it, I would imagine it would be tough to recreate live. A similar synth was used by Pete Townshend on Won't Get Fooled Again, which The Who always played live using a tape. Geddy said in an interview years ago that the 2112 intro was in fact the soundtrack of the accompanying film. Yes, it was an ARP. What the hell was I thinking? Mellotrone... that's a "Watcher of the Skies" Genesis type deal.Tears has mellotron, I believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) Yes, I think 2112 and Snakes and Arrows are the only Rush albums to feature that great mellotron sound. Edited February 14, 2019 by Lurkst 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amps211 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I'm just happy that these old rockers are still out there doing "mostly live" shows ... they could just be enjoying their retirements and giving us nothing ... it's great just to see them, and for the most part, hear them .. But that's just me ... to each his own on this subject for sure 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Digital Man Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Does Geddy trigger his own backing vocal and/or choir of Geddys samples himself or does Alex,Neil or Jack secret do it? Seems a lot to remember if he's singing as well and possibly triggering keyboard samples and playing bass!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I don’t mind that Rush added sequencers and some backing tracks, as their use of these elements was limited to parts they were physically unable to recreate as a 3 piece live. In light of every sound they were able to make with just the 3 of them, I can forgive a couple synth lines and backing vocals being triggered (and I do believe the band still had to trigger them). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootruss Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 But, why would it be so hard for Geddy to actually play the opening of 2112? When Huge Syme did it on a Mellotrone, it was probably so heavily produced in the studio that it couldn't be played live. I guess... Actually it was an ARP Odyssey synthesiser... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARP_Odyssey I seem to recall reading that it took a bit of time to assemble it, I would imagine it would be tough to recreate live. A similar synth was used by Pete Townshend on Won't Get Fooled Again, which The Who always played live using a tape. Geddy said in an interview years ago that the 2112 intro was in fact the soundtrack of the accompanying film. Yes, it was an ARP. What the hell was I thinking? Mellotrone... that's a "Watcher of the Skies" Genesis type deal.Tears has mellotron, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootruss Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Tears is one hundred percent mellotron, used for the string sounds and woodwind parts. It used looped tapes of the actual instruments to recreate the sound. A very primitive sample of you like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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