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Backing tracks, sequencers and lip synching on live shows.


Thunder Bay Rush
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There has been a ton of accusations about Kiss' Paul Stanley lip synching on the current tour. I've seen a few clips where it sure does look he's doing that. The outrage is fair because people are paying for a live show. Eddie Trunk has a good piece on it this week.

 

Now for Rush... (my favourite band) it's known that since about 1985 or so they used sequencers to add in additional keyboard parts that Geddy just couldn't play live. I've also heard pre-recorded backing vocals being used during live Rush shows as well. It sure looks like Alex is lip synching his "backing vocals" which is because the guy is a horrible singer. During Neil's solo, we hear a horn section that he plays along to. I never really heard any complaints about any of this and not much was ever said about it.

 

One of the things that drew me to Rush in the first place was how three guys made such a huge sound live. Neil's additional percussion, Lifeson played Taurus pedals, different types of guitars and a guitar synth, and of course, Lee played double neck, synths, Taurus pedals... sometimes all in the same song (Xanadu would be one example.)

 

I think that if a show is a live show, there should be NO sounds taped in. If I was at a Kiss show, I'd demand my goddam money back.

Edited by Thunder Bay Rush
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This is no criticism about this present thread, but there was a thread discussing this very topic on here a few years back. If I remember correctly, most here felt like you - that they were disappointed in Rush for doing that.

 

It's never been easy to translate album material into concert songs. I remember always being disappointed back in the 1970's whenever I went to a concert precisely for that reason - the songs never sounded the same. There was one exception - Frampton Comes Alive sounded the same during the Frampton Comes Alive tour. :D :cool:

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I didn't mind Rush doing it at first. because they were at least triggering everything live in the moment. But Geddy started to get lazy in later tours and sequenced things that should've been easy enough to play live. But at the very least he always sang live.

 

Kiss is just ripping people off, no matter what some folks here say.

 

We've started trying to trigger some things in our gigs. If you go without a click track, it's pretty tricky.

Edited by edhunter
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Something is either live, or it isn't.....I have never been a fan of bands augmenting their sounds with triggers or samples.

 

As for Rush, they were more than good enough musicians to do stripped down completely live versions of the songs, and it is indeed disappointing they chose not to do that......on the night, no one really cares whether a piddly little background keyboard fill is there or not....the audience just wants the artist to rock.

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Now for Rush... (my favourite band) it's known that since about 1985 or so they used sequencers to add in additional keyboard parts that Geddy just couldn't play live. I've also heard pre-recorded backing vocals being used during live Rush shows as well. It sure looks like Alex is lip synching his "backing vocals" which is because the guy is a horrible singer.

Isn't Alex actually singing (non-mic'ed) and triggering vocals?

 

Here's the thread Lorraine referenced...

 

http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/82749-alexs-back-up-vocals/

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I think that if a show is a live show, there should be NO sounds taped in.

 

So you'd be OK if 2112 started out without the whoosh? No "By-Tor" growls during the instrumental section?

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I agree that stripped down performances would be more musically interesting - the idea is to experience what the musicians do best - performance over (re)production.

 

Not too interested in reading long interviews in which the band talks about all the crew guys in the back plugging diskettes into computers and all that.

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I think that if a show is a live show, there should be NO sounds taped in.

 

So you'd be OK if 2112 started out without the whoosh? No "By-Tor" growls during the instrumental section?

 

granted, the whoosh for 2112 is important, but would you really give a monkeys about the bass growls?...they're not really important.

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I think that if a show is a live show, there should be NO sounds taped in.

 

So you'd be OK if 2112 started out without the whoosh? No "By-Tor" growls during the instrumental section?

 

granted, the whoosh for 2112 is important, but would you really give a monkeys about the bass growls?...they're not really important.

 

You're disenfranchising By-Tor. He deserves a voice.

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Milli Vanilli gets their career ruined and one eventually commits suicide.

 

KISS says "f**k you" and people pay $200+. Paul's gonna drop dead of a heart attack during Lick It Up, and his voice will go right on singing while his corpse is lying on stage.

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I think that if a show is a live show, there should be NO sounds taped in.

 

So you'd be OK if 2112 started out without the whoosh? No "By-Tor" growls during the instrumental section?

 

Good point... I guess if there are parts that can only be heard if they're sampled in, like the opening of 2112, then fine. But, that's the opening to a song. For By Tor, do one of the guys trigger those sounds with Taurus pedals? If so, that's okay because they are just sounds ... even noises.

 

But, why would it be so hard for Geddy to actually play the opening of 2112? When Huge Syme did it on a Mellotrone, it was probably so heavily produced in the studio that it couldn't be played live. I guess...

 

During the rap part in Roll The Bones, Geddy could have done that live. It was his voice used in the studio. The soundman could have those settings ready to go on the board. Live is always better when it's possible.

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Milli Vanilli gets their career ruined and one eventually commits suicide.

 

KISS says "f**k you" and people pay $200+. Paul's gonna drop dead of a heart attack during Lick It Up, and his voice will go right on singing while his corpse is lying on stage.

 

Aren't they already "lying on stage"?

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Milli Vanilli gets their career ruined and one eventually commits suicide.

 

KISS says "f**k you" and people pay $200+. Paul's gonna drop dead of a heart attack during Lick It Up, and his voice will go right on singing while his corpse is lying on stage.

 

Yes, very sad. These guys don't need the cash, so why they are embarrassing themselves is beyond me. I watched a few youtubes on the latest tour and it's nothing more than a constant fireworks display with old dudes in costumes and make up. They sound so bad.

 

If it really is the "final tour" it should have been done with Ace and Peter. Even if they still sounded like shit, at least it would be THE band that 95% of people want. But, they just can't put all the arguing and bullshit aside and do it for the fans. Pathetic.

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But, why would it be so hard for Geddy to actually play the opening of 2112? When Huge Syme did it on a Mellotrone, it was probably so heavily produced in the studio that it couldn't be played live. I guess...

 

Actually it was an ARP Odyssey synthesiser...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARP_Odyssey

 

I seem to recall reading that it took a bit of time to assemble it, I would imagine it would be tough to recreate live. A similar synth was used by Pete Townshend on Won't Get Fooled Again, which The Who always played live using a tape.

 

Geddy said in an interview years ago that the 2112 intro was in fact the soundtrack of the accompanying film.

Edited by Lurkst
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I don't care about Rush using triggers for synth parts because they have to actively hit the pedal or the drum pad at the right time to trigger the right sample. If anything, it's more work, not a crutch. Big difference to me between that and what KISS is doing. But if you're buying a ticket for a KISS show in 2019 you should know what you're signing up for.
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But, why would it be so hard for Geddy to actually play the opening of 2112? When Huge Syme did it on a Mellotrone, it was probably so heavily produced in the studio that it couldn't be played live. I guess...

 

Actually it was an ARP Odyssey synthesiser...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARP_Odyssey

 

I seem to recall reading that it took a bit of time to assemble it, I would imagine it would be tough to recreate live. A similar synth was used by Pete Townshend on Won't Get Fooled Again, which The Who always played live using a tape.

 

Geddy said in an interview years ago that the 2112 intro was in fact the soundtrack of the accompanying film.

 

Yes, it was an ARP. What the hell was I thinking? Mellotrone... that's a "Watcher of the Skies" Genesis type deal.

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But, why would it be so hard for Geddy to actually play the opening of 2112? When Huge Syme did it on a Mellotrone, it was probably so heavily produced in the studio that it couldn't be played live. I guess...

 

Actually it was an ARP Odyssey synthesiser...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARP_Odyssey

 

I seem to recall reading that it took a bit of time to assemble it, I would imagine it would be tough to recreate live. A similar synth was used by Pete Townshend on Won't Get Fooled Again, which The Who always played live using a tape.

 

Geddy said in an interview years ago that the 2112 intro was in fact the soundtrack of the accompanying film.

 

Yes, it was an ARP. What the hell was I thinking? Mellotrone... that's a "Watcher of the Skies" Genesis type deal.

Tears has mellotron, I believe.
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I'm just happy that these old rockers are still out there doing "mostly live" shows ... they could just be enjoying their retirements and giving us nothing ... it's great just to see them, and for the most part, hear them .. But that's just me ... to each his own on this subject for sure
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I don’t mind that Rush added sequencers and some backing tracks, as their use of these elements was limited to parts they were physically unable to recreate as a 3 piece live. In light of every sound they were able to make with just the 3 of them, I can forgive a couple synth lines and backing vocals being triggered (and I do believe the band still had to trigger them).
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But, why would it be so hard for Geddy to actually play the opening of 2112? When Huge Syme did it on a Mellotrone, it was probably so heavily produced in the studio that it couldn't be played live. I guess...

 

Actually it was an ARP Odyssey synthesiser...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARP_Odyssey

 

I seem to recall reading that it took a bit of time to assemble it, I would imagine it would be tough to recreate live. A similar synth was used by Pete Townshend on Won't Get Fooled Again, which The Who always played live using a tape.

 

Geddy said in an interview years ago that the 2112 intro was in fact the soundtrack of the accompanying film.

 

Yes, it was an ARP. What the hell was I thinking? Mellotrone... that's a "Watcher of the Skies" Genesis type deal.

Tears has mellotron, I believe.

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