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What if Natural Science had been a full blown epic?

tas7

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tas7

tas7

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Musing on a Saturday morning and wondering what would Permanent Waves have looked like if the boys had done a full side epic version of Natural Science. What track/tracks would have been sacrificed if any? I'm thinking Jacob's Ladder would be the track that would be dropped as brilliant as it is.
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Lucas

Lucas

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Sections of Natural Science were originally a side length piece titled Sir Gawain And The Green Knight ... I will try to find links, but I do remember reading that Sir Gawain was indeed recorded as a demo at the time of some of the other early Permanent Wave demos ..

 

As time progressed, the band decided that another side length epic wasn;t fitting in to want that wanted to do , so they plucked sections of Sir Gawain and made the condensed Natural Science ..

 

Somewhere, that demo still exists

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Lucas

Lucas

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From the book Rush Chronology

 

https://www.amazon.c...x/dp/1926462033

 

Permanent Waves:

"The Spirit Of Radio", "Freewill", "Uncle Tounouse" (Unreleased), and "Sir Gawain And The Green Knight" (Unreleased) were finished during July 1979, and demos were made of those songs, as well as unfinished versions of "Jacob's Ladder", and "Entre Nous". "Jacob's Ladder" and "Entre Nous" were finished during soundchecks in August 1979, while "Natural Science", and "Different Strings" were written in September 1979. The album was recorded from October-November 1979

 

Sir Gawain was recorded and finished by July 1979

 

It exists somewhere

 

http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/102886-rush-writingrecording-sessions-guide/

Edited by Lucas
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HemiBeers

HemiBeers

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From the book Rush Chronology

 

https://www.amazon.c...x/dp/1926462033

 

Permanent Waves:

"The Spirit Of Radio", "Freewill", "Uncle Tounouse" (Unreleased), and "Sir Gawain And The Green Knight" (Unreleased) were finished during July 1979, and demos were made of those songs, as well as unfinished versions of "Jacob's Ladder", and "Entre Nous". "Jacob's Ladder" and "Entre Nous" were finished during soundchecks in August 1979, while "Natural Science", and "Different Strings" were written in September 1979. The album was recorded from October-November 1979

 

Sir Gawain was recorded and finished by July 1979

 

It exists somewhere

 

http://www.therushfo...sessions-guide/

I think the section of NS that starts at 5:09 could be part of Sir Gawain. It sounds like a completely different song from NS.
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Lucas

Lucas

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As a guitar player, I have long felt that Alex would have been the last one who wanted the band to morph into what it did by the mid 80s

 

But in reading some interviews and quotes from the Permanent Waves era, I just came across this - Alex talking about Permanent Waves and the direction

 

"I was really bluesed out about the whole thing," Lifeson continued. "'Jacob's Ladder' seemed to be a typical Rush song, a rehash of something we'd done in the past.

 

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/rush-permanent-waves-album/

 

 

tenor.gif

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Crimsonmistymemory

Crimsonmistymemory

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Natural Science is epic! I remember quite well when I 1st heard it and the complete state of awe struck I was in. This song was the one that started me on my journey of being a life long :rush: fan. It was when I heard this song and said to meself "Man if there is a song like this on a :rush: album I have never heard on the radio, I wonder what kind of songs are on their other albums" From that point on the album collecting began. This all happened in the summer of 1980 as Permanent Waves was the very 1st :rush: album I went out and bought brand new from the record store.

 

So P E although written & produced in the 70's is most assuredly an 80's album!

 

Sorry I couldn't resist throwing that in there :blush: :D

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tas7

tas7

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Natural Science is epic! I remember quite well when I 1st heard it and the complete state of awe struck I was in. This song was the one that started me on my journey of being a life long :rush: fan. It was when I heard this song and said to meself "Man if there is a song like this on a :rush: album I have never heard on the radio, I wonder what kind of songs are on their other albums" From that point on the album collecting began. This all happened in the summer of 1980 as Permanent Waves was the very 1st :rush: album I went out and bought brand new from the record store.

 

So P E although written & produced in the 70's is most assuredly an 80's album!

 

Sorry I couldn't resist throwing that in there :blush: :D

My introduction to Rush also. Christmas eve 1979, at The Floral Hall, Southport, U.K. Had been drinking all day as you do when you're young and foolish. Went to our regular heavy rock night and I fell asleep under a table. Came to with the sound of the seashore, thought I was back home in Tasmania, then guitar then this high pitched voice. Thought what's this, totally blew me away. Kept asking people what it was and they teased me by not telling me until days later someone relented and told me it's this Canadian band called Rush. A barman then lent me the whole back catalog at the time and it was like getting a box of chocolates, Rush overload!
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Crimsonmistymemory

Crimsonmistymemory

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Natural Science is epic! I remember quite well when I 1st heard it and the complete state of awe struck I was in. This song was the one that started me on my journey of being a life long :rush: fan. It was when I heard this song and said to meself "Man if there is a song like this on a :rush: album I have never heard on the radio, I wonder what kind of songs are on their other albums" From that point on the album collecting began. This all happened in the summer of 1980 as Permanent Waves was the very 1st :rush: album I went out and bought brand new from the record store.

 

So P E although written & produced in the 70's is most assuredly an 80's album!

 

Sorry I couldn't resist throwing that in there :blush: :D

My introduction to Rush also. Christmas eve 1979, at The Floral Hall, Southport, U.K. Had been drinking all day as you do when you're young and foolish. Went to our regular heavy rock night and I fell asleep under a table. Came to with the sound of the seashore, thought I was back home in Tasmania, then guitar then this high pitched voice. Thought what's this, totally blew me away. Kept asking people what it was and they teased me by not telling me until days later someone relented and told me it's this Canadian band called Rush. A barman then lent me the whole back catalog at the time and it was like getting a box of chocolates, Rush overload!

I love it!!!! :heart: :heart: :heart:

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grasbo

grasbo

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For a start if they made NS longer ,side long,the album would be longer(it’s about five minutes short of a normal vinyl album),Lyrically there is certainly a quantum leap forward from busy creatures chasing out destinies to the mind boggling expanding universe.Perhaps Neil could have had a tea break on Mars.Musically I don’t think I could change it.Remember this was a time when the likes of Tales of Topographic Oceans had given way to punk ditties.But then there was those Disco 12 inch singles that went on for eternity(I had to endure these things when I worked in a record shop at the time).If NS had been side long it could have been a step up over Hemispheres which does get a teensy weensy bogged down mid section
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J2112YYZ

J2112YYZ

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Natural Science isn't a full blown epic?

Read my opening post.

 

I did and I don't think making it a side long tune would have made the song or the album any better. Especially if they had to sacrifice another song to do that. It's perfect the way it is.

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Mosher

Mosher

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Jacob's Ladder could be retooled a bit, thematically it is not inconsistent with Natural Science and would make the overall song almost 17 minutes. Clearly they would have to write some musical and lyrical progression to lead them together.

Switch Entre Nous and Different Strings with Jacob's Ladder.

 

Now side 1 is 18:50

Side 2 is 16:45- leaving a lot of room to write the progressions that would attach the sections.

 

Now, I'm no composer- and maybe this just musically couldn't work- but I do think the themes can be readily written into one overarching work.

 

Now, that said, Natural Science is a perfect song already, and I see no need to make it a longer epic. I'm just throwing out a way they might have done it.

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JohnRogers

JohnRogers

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Cheers guys, someone, somewhere must have those demos!

We know touring is over. So the last money grab might be releasing a treasure trove of unreleased material?

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