What is the point of cynicism and negativity?

**Gedneil Alpeart** · May 9, 2012

A new Rush album is coming.....excitement and hype abound. I can perfectly understand fans wanting to be cautious about expectations and not wanting to hype lest raise too high and unrealistic hopes only to be disappointed. However, some of you go beyond this....expressing pervasive cynicism and negativity about the album, which hasn't even been heard in full. Yes, I know that some of you dont like the three songs heard so far and you have every right to express your dissatisfaction, but the attitude I also sense is of almost complete dismissal and panning...not able to salvage anything positive out of the new stuff. I see this on other forums too, usually much worse there than on here.

Beyond expressing particular points of dissatisfaction, what gives about the bashing? Why the trolling? Are you indirectly expressing some sort of grudge towards the band about past expectations being smashed or utter disappointment? Is this negativity some sort of defense mechanism against disappointment, or you just like to express dissenting opinions for attention, or vent your frustrations about other things in your lives that have nothing to do with Rush? Do you feel envious towards those Rush fans who are enjoying new material, but you cant join the party? Are you frustrated that Rush didnt create MP 2 or your own personal fantasy album? Im not trying to sound like a jerk, but just curious to know the reasons behind all this negative spew I see and hear so often when it comes to new Rush.

The negativity is old and tiresome. It contributes nothing positive to discussions. Heard it all. Again, to be clear, Im no fan boy and dont appreciate blind praise for anything Rush puts out either. There are many Rush songs I dont much appreciate, but I try to keep an open mind too. Im also not talking about critical reviews or healthy analyses and debates with balanced perspectives. Expressing general dislike for a song or album is not what I have an issue with. You know what Im talking about....we've seen it here, elsewhere and will see it again.........unfortunately.

**metaldad** · May 9, 2012

You are just

here. When they release anything new, the trolls come out . It will die down later, just don't pay any mind to it

**Principled Man** · May 9, 2012

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 9 2012, 08:09 AM)

Are you indirectly expressing some sort of grudge towards the band about past expectations being smashed or utter disappointment? Is this negativity some sort of defense mechanism against disappointment, or you just like to express dissenting opinions for attention, or vent your frustrations about other things in your lives that have nothing to do with Rush? Do you feel envious towards those Rush fans who are enjoying new material, but you cant join the party? Are you frustrated that Rush didnt create MP 2 or your own personal fantasy album?

It's all of the above, Gedneil. When a band reaches cult status or superstardom, there will always be a solid percentage of fans who become negative and even obsessive if they don't get what they want. Ya just gotta ignore 'em......

**EmotionDetector** · May 9, 2012

To be fair, I don't think it's ALL "trolling".

Some people simply don't like the new material, and make it known. This is a forum do discuss Rush, and although most is positive, some will obviously not be.

Now, are there some legit trolls? Yes...definitely. Like MD said, they come out, and once we hit June 12, you will see them here in full force. Believe me.

Others simply play it up...because they can. This is the Internet afterall...it's easy to say what you want.

As long as you like the material, that's all that matters. Besides, the negativity is far and few between. Of the 1000 posts a day, you see maybe 50 that have any negative stances to them, and most are from the same people.

Have fun...and just enjoy the ride. Even the negative posts make me laugh from time to time. New Rush is almost here...time to enjoy this ride, because we never know if this will be the last new album (though I certainly hope not!)

**Snaked** · May 9, 2012

28 years ago almost to the day I was waiting in line for P/g! tickets and I met somebody who I am still good friends with to this day.

Had he told me on that day that in 2012 we would be awaiting the release of yet another album of all new material and a tour I would have told him he was nuts!

My point?

I'm grateful that my favorite band has survived this long.

I dont care what the reviewers say. I dont care what Nick or the band says. I just care what it sounds like when I get it in my grubby little hands.

And that's all I got to say about that! [/Forrest Gump]

**TheBluePhoenix** · May 9, 2012

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even if someone it just trolling and trying to spin people up, so what? My question is: why are you wasting time responding to them? That's exactly what they want! Trolls just want to piss people off for their own amusement. If nobody responded to their post then it would fall off the page. I say be the bigger person, show some restraint and ignore them. When I see a stupid troll post I usually just snake my head, wonder "what is wrong with people?" and I move on. Try it. It feels better than arguing with an idiot.

**rushgoober** · May 9, 2012

I'm always completely honest in my personal assessment of Rush music. If it's great, I love it and I say so. If it's not, I don't and I say so. When they do get my respect, you know it's honest and well-earned. As I've said many, many times, I always want to love every Rush song and every Rush album. It's only because the group means so much to me that it's as disappointing as it is when they don't live up to their great works.

And I'm spoiled in a sense - I became a fan in 1981 - every album up to that point was great, and every album through HYF (IMHO obviously) was virtually flawless. If TRF existed back in 1987, you'd hear nothing but praise from me - there would be maybe 5 songs I would criticize from their first 12 albums - the group was almost completely infallible in my eyes.

And then the bottom dropped out, and since then it's been very hit and miss, and unfortunately for me, more miss than hit, with some very notable exceptions, like CP and most of S&A.

Other than that, it's a Rush board, and we discuss Rush - not everyone is going to agree. Some think that saying anything negative about the band isn't cool. They're entitled to their opinion, but they should also be prepared for great disappointment if they think that's going to stop anything. Some would argue that I and others focus too much on the stuff we don't like. That's probably a fair assessment, and yet speaking for myself, it's more fun talking about what doesn't work than what does. After all, how many times can you say Moving Pictures is awesome without it getting painfully dull? And STILL I say that A LOT, as Moving Pictures IS awesome!

I love Rush, but in the wider view of my entire life, any one given rock band (among so many I love, even if they are my favorite) is ultimately of little consequence. Even though I take my opinions seriously, to me it's ultimately just fun banter/conversation. Life as a human being can be challenging, and sometimes it's fun letting off steam talking or debating about things that really aren't that important.

And yes, I fully admit that saying things that are controversial and watching people freak out about it is ridiculously fun, as sometimes people just take it all way too seriously. That said, I NEVER make up a point of view just for a reaction - I always say what I believe subjectively to be true, and I don't apologize for how I do it.

If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right.

Edited May 9, 2012 by rushgoober

**danielmclark** · May 9, 2012

There is only one person here who I consider a true forum troll - he knows who he is - and to answer the question of why trolls do what they do, you have to understand that they enjoy it. They enjoy the little power trip they get when they post something just to get a rise out of people and then it works. It's a measure of control. In their minds, they are controlling those people that respond. Of course, they're really not. I ignore them sometimes and I respond sometimes, and it depends entirely on what kind of mood I'm in if I feel like playing along. It has nothing to do with that person or what he wrote specifically. And I think it's like that for most people when faced with a troll. Call me idealistic, but I like to think that we're not completely hopeless as a race of creatures, that we're not so completely stupid that we'd fall for the obvious troll tactics every time.

There's a pretty clear line between expressing a negative opinion and trolling. Me saying I don't like Tom Sawyer and I hope they never play it again isn't trolling because whenever I say it, I back it up with solid reasons why. A troll would simply bash the song and run, waiting for the fireworks.

Trolls are also more interested in the reactions than the truth. I'm willing to bet good money that a lot of the trolls that will come out of the woodwork when CA comes out actually like the album. Still others will have not heard it before coming here to put it down. It's a lot like all the people that bash Justin Beiber - if you put a gun to their heads, a *large* number of people would admit that they've never listened to one of his songs.

Trolls lie and make up opposing points of view because it's fun for them. Sadly.

**Presto-digitation** · May 9, 2012

If you're British, it's because you're hard-wired to always see the pessimistic side of everything. Nothing is worth saying if it's not first dipped in a healthy, hearty batter of wry humor and deep-cutting (often cruel) sarcasm and then sun-dried on the back stoop.

**trenken** · May 9, 2012

There is a big difference between trolling, and voicing negative opinions on something.

Trolling is coming here and trashing things you haven't heard yet, but it's completely fair to have a negative opinion on something you have heard. This isn't a dictatorship and as long as you voice your opinions without attacking others, it should be allowed.

I've had some negative opinions because I got so down on the music they've been putting out, but never once said I thought CA would suck. I havent heard it yet, I just said I dont LOVE the new songs. I like BU2B a lot, but dont like HF or Caravan, and that's perfectly fine. Noone has to agree with me and I dont attack anyone that likes them. That's when it crosses the line and I dont really see a lot of people doing that here.

**GeddyRulz** · May 9, 2012

"I think [Rush] just wanted to make a great album. They just want to be happy and make music. I think we did that, and I hope all the true Rush fans out there love it, too, without picking apart how loud the mastering is or analyzing the waveform."

- Nick Raskulinecz

**circumstantial tree** · May 9, 2012

I give an honest account of how I feel about music. If I dont' like it, then I say so.

And regarding waveforms and mastering, I couldn't care less about all that. It's all about how the music makes me feel - though hopefully inspired and positive. So far this album, based on the song by song review I've seen, sounds very good!

**trenken** · May 9, 2012

I dont think most people care much about how it technically sounds, unless it's just blatantly bad, like VT. It was just impossible to ignore how muddy that sounded, but we already know that Nick is an experienced producer and works with a real engineer, unlike what Rush did with VT, so that isn't happening again.

**circumstantial tree** · May 9, 2012

QUOTE (trenken @ May 9 2012, 10:58 AM)

I dont think most people care much about how it technically sounds, unless it's just blatantly bad, like VT. It was just impossible to ignore how muddy that sounded, but we already know that Nick is an experienced producer and works with a real engineer, unlike what Rush did with VT, so that isn't happening again.

See, I like Vapor Trails. I was unaware of the technical problems until somebody pointed them out.

I love Signals, but one complaint that somebody could make is that it's a very quiet album. The volume has to be turned up higher to equal Moving Pictures or Grace Under Pressure.

**EmotionDetector** · May 9, 2012

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ May 9 2012, 11:01 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ May 9 2012, 10:58 AM)

I dont think most people care much about how it technically sounds, unless it's just blatantly bad, like VT. It was just impossible to ignore how muddy that sounded, but we already know that Nick is an experienced producer and works with a real engineer, unlike what Rush did with VT, so that isn't happening again.

See, I like Vapor Trails. I was unaware of the technical problems until somebody pointed them out.

I love Signals, but one complaint that somebody could make is that it's a very quiet album. The volume has to be turned up higher to equal Moving Pictures or Grace Under Pressure.

Right...but if you crank Signals, your ears won't bleed.

**circumstantial tree** · May 9, 2012

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ May 9 2012, 11:07 AM)

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ May 9 2012, 11:01 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ May 9 2012, 10:58 AM)

I dont think most people care much about how it technically sounds, unless it's just blatantly bad, like VT. It was just impossible to ignore how muddy that sounded, but we already know that Nick is an experienced producer and works with a real engineer, unlike what Rush did with VT, so that isn't happening again.

See, I like Vapor Trails. I was unaware of the technical problems until somebody pointed them out.

I love Signals, but one complaint that somebody could make is that it's a very quiet album. The volume has to be turned up higher to equal Moving Pictures or Grace Under Pressure.

Right...but if you crank Signals, your ears won't bleed.

**Todem** · May 9, 2012

Edited May 9, 2012 by Todem

**Todem** · May 9, 2012

QUOTE (trenken @ May 9 2012, 10:58 AM)

I dont think most people care much about how it technically sounds, unless it's just blatantly bad, like VT. It was just impossible to ignore how muddy that sounded, but we already know that Nick is an experienced producer and works with a real engineer, unlike what Rush did with VT, so that isn't happening again.

Yep can't disagree. VT was a sonic abortion. But in between all the noise and clipping are some truly awesome songs. One of their most uneven efforts but still half a dozen high quality Rush tunes that sound killer live and some that would sound killer live they have not played yet (or maybe ever).

**trenken** · May 9, 2012

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ May 9 2012, 10:01 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ May 9 2012, 10:58 AM)

I dont think most people care much about how it technically sounds, unless it's just blatantly bad, like VT. It was just impossible to ignore how muddy that sounded, but we already know that Nick is an experienced producer and works with a real engineer, unlike what Rush did with VT, so that isn't happening again.

See, I like Vapor Trails. I was unaware of the technical problems until somebody pointed them out.

I love Signals, but one complaint that somebody could make is that it's a very quiet album. The volume has to be turned up higher to equal Moving Pictures or Grace Under Pressure.

Well sure some people might not notice that VT sounded like a muddy mess, or maybe they did notice and didnt care, which is of course fine too.

But we know a LOT of people didnt like how that album sounded so thats why I brought it up. Nick made a comment about hoping people will just listen to the songs and not pick apart the technical aspects of them, I dont think they will as long as it doesnt sound horrible, which we already know from the 3 songs that it wont.

**trenken** · May 9, 2012

QUOTE (Todem @ May 9 2012, 10:28 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ May 9 2012, 10:58 AM)

I dont think most people care much about how it technically sounds, unless it's just blatantly bad, like VT. It was just impossible to ignore how muddy that sounded, but we already know that Nick is an experienced producer and works with a real engineer, unlike what Rush did with VT, so that isn't happening again.

Yep can't disagree. VT was a sonic abortion. But in between all the noise and clipping are some truly awesome songs. One of their most uneven efforts but still half a dozen high quality Rush tunes that sound killer live and some that would sound killer live they have not played yet (or maybe ever).

Yeah I think some of the songs are pretty awesome. The only issue aside from the sound and the choir of Geddys was I felt there was a lack of variety in the types of songs. Most of them were mid tempo rock songs with a very similar feel between many of them.

But what is good on that album I like a lot. Ceiling Unlimited, Earthshine, Freeze, Stars Look Down, a couple other decent ones. Some filler of course but thats standard issue with most bands.

**eshine** · May 9, 2012

I've been an ardent defender of the band against harsh criticism on the message boards for a number of years - but this time out, I really don't care and am making a conscious decision not to get all bogged down in the back and forth.

Its been totally played out for me. The same people who have been bashing Rush for the last decade are going to bash the new stuff, and my comments defending them won't be much different then anything I've already said, so what's the point?

The band is almost done. I'd rather kick back and enjoy rather then focus on the negative. Like I said, it's played out (for me)

And trolls are very easy to ignore.

**Slack jaw gaze** · May 9, 2012

Fanboism and Brand Loyalty

QUOTE

In modern consumer cultures like America, people compete for status through comparing their taste in products.

The various albums and styles are simply sub-brands of Rush.

**ghostworks** · May 9, 2012

QUOTE (Gedneil Alpeart @ May 9 2012, 08:09 AM)

...yes, I know that some of you dont like the three songs heard so far and you have every right to express your dissatisfaction, but the attitude I also sense is of almost complete dismissal and panning...not able to salvage anything positive out of the new stuff...

so, let's say I like to eat eggs, but only a very special brand

and let's also say that this brand is rare, so I don't get to have them very often

in fact, over the last 10 years, I've only been able to purchase 37 eggs

of those 37, the first dozen were pretty good (a few 'odd' tasting ones here and there)

but the next eight were awful (though I was told they were not from the usual source)

no surprise, then - I was wary of the next dozen, but gave them a chance (because, when these eggs are good, they're phenomenal - the best I've ever had)

^ much to my chagrin, however, every other egg in that dozen was terrible

I've only bought three eggs from them since then - and each one was 'off' in some way (none have tasted quite right)

the company said that just nine more would be available this year... if I want them

how many more eggs from that brand do you think I should buy at this point before I try something else for breakfast?

**presto123** · May 9, 2012

The trolls and haters need their own sub-forum so they can stew in their own misery.

**EmotionDetector** · May 9, 2012

QUOTE (ghostworks @ May 9 2012, 01:40 PM)