Merc2112 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 QUOTE (trenken @ Apr 19 2012, 10:57 AM) QUOTE (druid13 @ Apr 19 2012, 10:54 AM) I don't know if Alex was saying he was done with solos... I think what he meant was he felt wanking was not appropriate on the VT album due to the nature of the music and subject matter.... No they said at that time that solos were really not popular anymore. Rush has always reflected whats going on around them. When rock bands generally stopped soloing, so did Rush. They talked about that in interviews. When music switched from the 80s to alternative with Pearl Jam and Nirvana, Counterparts comes out. 2000s solos really were not considered cool, Vapor Trails comes out, no solos. I think at this point now rock music is heading in all different directions. Simple rock bands out there, along with complex stuff like Mars Volta, so I guess they're just doing whatever they want now. Alex felt like shredding so he did. No atmospheric solo there like Limelight. Thats just what he chose. Still miss them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 QUOTE (Draco @ Apr 18 2012, 10:56 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Apr 18 2012, 10:51 PM) QUOTE (troutman @ Apr 18 2012, 10:49 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Apr 18 2012, 09:23 PM) QUOTE (Riv @ Apr 18 2012, 11:02 PM) !!! Whoa, Riv! You come back after a long absence, and THAT'S your post??? What'd we do to deserve the third exclamation point? Riv isn't the only one. LOTS of cool peeps that haven't posted here in a long time have crawled out of the woodwork for this thread. Goober, please accept my apologies in advance, but... If Grizz stops in and posts in this thread, then this song must be damn good! My first listen to S&A in its entirety was with Grizz at my home office. It's a great memory. RIP Grizz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Steel Rat @ Apr 18 2012, 11:17 PM) I think I've identified what makes this song stand out for people more than anything on S&A: it's double-time. Everything on S&A was mid-or-low-tempo, this song is faster than all of S&A. I don't know if that means anything to anyone, just throwing that out there. I still never get people's complaint about the TEMPO of Armor & Sword or about S&A in general. To me a song is great or it's not great, regardless of how fast it is. Just because Headlong Flight is faster doesn't make it better. Some people just drool over fast and heavy and claim Rush is back just because of that. Rush being back means great songs. Armor & Sword was their best song in decades - powerful and moving. Headlong Flight is at least a very good song, and possibly great, but you don't get too many Armor & Swords in terms of emotional impact. In fact, now that I think about it, it's because the song is slower (even though it's still bone crunchingly heavy) that it allows the emotional impact of the lyrics to really make an effect - I don't know if the amazing lyric "No one gets to their heaven without a fight" would have had the same impact if the song was coming at you like a freight train. Not to put down fast songs, but sometimes less can be more... Edited April 19, 2012 by rushgoober Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Apr 19 2012, 11:14 AM) QUOTE (Steel Rat @ Apr 18 2012, 11:17 PM) I think I've identified what makes this song stand out for people more than anything on S&A: it's double-time. Everything on S&A was mid-or-low-tempo, this song is faster than all of S&A. I don't know if that means anything to anyone, just throwing that out there. I still never get people's complaint about the TEMPO of Armor & Sword or about S&A in general. To me a song is great or it's not great, regardless of how fast it is. Just because Headlong Flight is faster doesn't make it better. Some people just drool over fast and heavy and claim Rush is back just because of that. Rush being back means great songs. Armor & Sword was their best song in decades - powerful and moving. Headlong Flight is at least a very good song, and possibly great, but you don't get too many Armor & Swords in terms of emotional impact. I admit I prefer upbeat/fast songs, but I'm not someone who can't appreciate slower ones. (Simon & Garfunkel are one of my very favorite artists of all time.) If tempo were Armor and Sword's only problem, maybe I could cut it some slack. It's plodding. It drones on for over six minutes without shifting gear or going anywhere. It's boring. The tone of Geddy's voice sounds like he's telling us a bedtime story while falling asleep himself. It's more than boring: to listen is tedious. It could be played during interrogations at Gitmo, only that would Constitutionally be considered an even crueler and more unusual punishment than waterboarding. Need more hyperbole? I'm glad you think it's so emotionally powerful and like it so much. Me, I can't stand to listen, and it's not just because I'm addicted to fast tempos. Most of the Snakes and Arrows album has these problems; "Armor and Sword" is just the most egregious offender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druid13 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 would you say Armor and Sword was Speed of Love's younger brother then...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
third hand grace Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Wow, GedRulz I usually agree with your comments, But I definitely side w/ Goobs on this one. I think Armor and Sword is as good as anything they have ever done. Ever. As for my feelings after repeated listens, the high of a new song is over and I like it, but dont LOVE it. As part of a concept it might make better sense, but I actually think the lyrics are average at best. Sound quality to be determined later. Busy instruments but maybe a little too long, IMO. It is RUSH, and it is always GOOD. No complaints, but HOPEFUL that other songs/entire album is a notch above this ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druid13 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Actually I never quite got the band's fondness for the Pass either.... Strong lyrically.....but as a song? Plodding. Interesting though that the band choose to channel Satan in the middle of Headlong Flight...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The K Man Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I like Armor and Sword a lot - one of my two or three favorites from S&A - but I sort of agree that it is a bit plodding (but not boring), but that is what makes it work. And it is what made it not work so well as a live tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Rat Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus The God Of Balance Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Rat Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druid13 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 QUOTE (trenken @ Apr 19 2012, 10:57 AM) QUOTE (druid13 @ Apr 19 2012, 10:54 AM) I don't know if Alex was saying he was done with solos... I think what he meant was he felt wanking was not appropriate on the VT album due to the nature of the music and subject matter.... No they said at that time that solos were really not popular anymore. Rush has always reflected whats going on around them. When rock bands generally stopped soloing, so did Rush. They talked about that in interviews. When music switched from the 80s to alternative with Pearl Jam and Nirvana, Counterparts comes out. 2000s solos really were not considered cool, Vapor Trails comes out, no solos. I think at this point now rock music is heading in all different directions. Simple rock bands out there, along with complex stuff like Mars Volta, so I guess they're just doing whatever they want now. Alex felt like shredding so he did. No atmospheric solo there like Limelight. Thats just what he chose. Right but that goes back to the idea that wanking became uncool... I actually heard them state both as reasons but its all the same...no wanking....no Kenny G on guitar. Now...in some cases this came about becuase you had a bunch of bands who *couldn't* wank to save their life.... as great as Nirvana was at songwriting...Cobain could not solo to save his life. The music business collapsing has as much to do with what is happening now. You might as well play what YOU want becuase the business does no one any real favors.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druid13 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Armor and Sword did not even make sense to me till I saw it Live.... thne it became a better song in my mind....the crunchy middle section made it work for me in a live setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 QUOTE (Cygnus The God Of Balance @ Apr 19 2012, 12:39 PM) As far as Headlong Flight is concerned, I think it's interesting that the song was originally going to be an instrumental. I wonder if that's ever happened with them before with a song. "Peaceable Kingdom," from Vapor Trails, was going to be an instrumental. Then came 9/11, and Neil wrote the lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILSnwdog Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Edited April 19, 2012 by ILSnwdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 The thing about Snakes & Arrows is it has a strong first half and a weak second half (with the exception of MalNar)...well I say half, actually it's the first 7 songs that are good and it's 5 of the last 6 that are weak. So the good songs are: Far Cry, Armor & Sword, Working Them Angels, The Larger Bowl, Spindrift, TMMB and TWTWB plus MalNar. The rest are meh...not that I HATE them, but they're obvious filler... So at least we know on CA that by track 9 RUSH are still in overdrive... And so far all the CA tracks are good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Oh and the tempo question has never arisen with me, tempo has never been a factor in whether I like or dislike a song, whether it's rock, jazz, metal, blues or whatever. What matters is whether it's a good song or a bad song or something in the middle. For instance take a classic heavy metal album like Dio's Holy Diver, the song with the fastest tempo Stand Up and Shout is good, but it's nowhere near the best song on the album, it's probably in the bottom three out of nine, why? Because the other songs are just better quality songs, tempo never enters into the discussion. The slowest tempo on the album is featured on Shame on the Night which to my mind blows Stand Up and Shout away. This whole tempo debate is fairly ridiculous and I never heard anyone complain about it before S&A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 19 2012, 11:28 AM) Oh and the tempo question has never arisen with me, tempo has never been a factor in whether I like or dislike a song, whether it's rock, jazz, metal, blues or whatever. What matters is whether it's a good song or a bad song or something in the middle. For instance take a classic heavy metal album like Dio's Holy Diver, the song with the fastest tempo Stand Up and Shout is good, but it's nowhere near the best song on the album, it's probably in the bottom three out of nine, why? Because the other songs are just better quality songs, tempo never enters into the discussion. The slowest tempo on the album is featured on Shame on the Night which to my mind blows Stand Up and Shout away. This whole tempo debate is fairly ridiculous and I never heard anyone complain about it before S&A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyndseyG Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 The only problem I'm having is hearing it on my iPhone. There's at least one version on YouTube and none of the links anyone has posted so far play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenken Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 QUOTE (LyndseyG @ Apr 19 2012, 01:36 PM) The only problem I'm having is hearing it on my iPhone. There's at least one version on YouTube and none of the links anyone has posted so far play! iPhone's dont support Flash so you can thank Apple for that. I wont buy apple products until they start supporting it because Flash is all over the entire internet and will take many, many years to weed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Edited April 19, 2012 by snowdog2112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyndseyG Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 QUOTE (trenken @ Apr 19 2012, 07:42 PM) QUOTE (LyndseyG @ Apr 19 2012, 01:36 PM) The only problem I'm having is hearing it on my iPhone. There's at least one version on YouTube and none of the links anyone has posted so far play! iPhone's dont support Flash so you can thank Apple for that. I wont buy apple products until they start supporting it because Flash is all over the entire internet and will take many, many years to weed out. I get that. I'm just impatiently waiting for someone to put an apple friendly version on there. It's really frustrating when people either here or Facebook puts up a link and the thing won't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now