snowdog2112

Holy moly, haha! I don't post often but I have been checking in more lately in case there's news/rumors about releases this year. But in glancing around at a few threads just now I've seen that Neil didn't care about his playing for many years, there's a thread dedicated to the worst of Rush, and now I see that Freewill and YYZ suck. So I'll leave you guys to your fun and try again later.

To be clear, I can't personally promise that they didn't record anything, but I've been an avid live music and bootleg collector since the 80s and I'm fairly OCD and I think I've read or seen about every article/interview that might have disclosed some recording that tour. It's certainly possible, even likely, that they did simple recordings from night to night for their own review and critique, I can't remember how early they did that, but even then I doubt they were kept even from night to night and even if they did still exist they certainly wouldn't consider those to be release-worthy. So to me it was just an extra clarification when that book came out which listed the shows recorded for various live albums and not a single Signals show was noted that way. Trust me, I'm as disappointed as anyone, I'm just not surprised. And if you haven't seen the book yourself you can see a good sample here. No reference book is absolutely foolproof and I think I remember at least one radio broadcast show from the 70s that wasn't mentioned but in general it is extremely detailed. Check out August 19 on page 49 or August 24 on page 50 for examples of this with the aborted TV appearance and the radio show discussed in detail. Rush: Wandering the Face of the Earth: The Official Touring History: Skip Daly, Eric Hansen, Bienstock, Richard, Ungerleider, Howard, Copeland, Stewart, Claypool, Les: 9781683834502: Amazon.com: Books If anything was done for Signals it would have been done without anyone from the band or crew/staff mentioning it for over 40 years, no soundboard ever leaking, and a book of this detail making no mention of it. Is that possible? I guess, but it seems clear to me there just isn't anything from 82 to release. I mean, they had just released ESL. They almost certainly didn't record any shows on the Presto tour either.

I want as much live stuff as I can get too, but the constant portrayal of them choosing not to give us live stuff on the Signals box set or to claim they're "at fault" or "to blame" is just weird to me. There was some live stuff with every single previous box set so there's no reason to think they wouldn't have included it if it existed and there has never even been a hint of anything multitrack recorded or filmed on the Signals tour. It was on my mind as soon as the MP box set was out, that if they continued the Signals one would be bare because there's no live stuff to speak of. It would have been a (very pleasant) shock to me if there was any. Hell, even the Wandering the Face of the Earth book identifies tons of specific shows that were recorded or filmed, but nothing noted at all on the Signals tour. The only way anyone could use the words blame or fault would be to say they should have known in 1982 that they'd be making 40th anniversary box sets.

No, unfortunately there’s nothing from Irvine to see (Unless…. See below). Oh yeah, I’m aware of the ABC thing, I used to tape that in the early 90s and got that Rush feature along with lots of other neat bits from the Scorpions, Judas Priest, etc. It was only about 4 minutes on ABC but there’s the much longer feature from that same source that I saved on my computer years ago. There’s also the RTB video press kit that some of that came from plus the video shoot BTS, etc. I’ll need to go back and compare that footage from Germany but there’s also a post-show backstage interview with Alex from that tour from Cologne and I’d guess it’s from the same show. As you said, the apparent single camera view leads me to believe it was just short bits taken to potentially go with that interview. And considering the previous Auburn Hills tour and the following Auburn Hills tours were both venue filmed and there are various clips from multiple cameras throughout the set from the RTB show available I’d think it’s at least likely that that whole thing exists somewhere. Are we sure that the ABC stuff is from Germany? My suspicion is that since we know ABC filmed the 1992 Irvine show, and other shows from other bands from Irvine appeared on In Concert (like the Judas Priest one) I think the most likely thing is that in fact those short bits ARE from 1992 in Irvine. Wait!! Correction, it was Atlantic Records that filmed Irvine, not ABC. So who knows… Also, I just checked again and the Rush 1991 video PK says it’s from Auburn Hills, and that’s where the interview footage came from on the ABC feature as well. I’ll review the rest in a bit.

I never had any expectations of a Signals show. Of course there’s no guarantee we would have known about it but there’s never even been a hint that they recorded anything on that tour that’s release quality. At least we know for a fact they recorded release quality shows, in many cases multiple shows, going forward for GUP, Power Windows, Hold Your Fire, Counterparts, TFE, etc. They obviously also have the master film for the Presto tour at Auburn Hills (and maybe the Mountain View show), they filmed Irvine on the RTB tour (and also evidently part or all of Auburn Hills exists). I’m also hopeful that they filmed a full show on the Counterparts tour (not counting the Auburn Hills show) because the brief clip from that tour in BTLS is NOT from Auburn Hills. I think Signals, like CoS, will sadly just be the only two tours where no high quality audio or video was ever taken.

That’s possible but who knows. I hope so. So far three were announced and released in the spring but the other three were released in the fall and not even announced until Sept/Oct. There’s also at least the possibility of some other 50th anniv product competing for a release window this year that could affect things. But yeah, I’m definitely keeping my eye out now for any news. But even if we don’t hear anything by summer I still don’t think that’s means it’s not coming, multiple people have claimed it’s coming for sure.

Yeah, those three books are essentially the “deleted scenes” from the Beyond the Lighted Stage documentary in text form. They compile masses of omitted interview material from that project. It’s a huge mistake to make a gut reaction of “I don’t like Popoff so I’m going to ignore those books.” The majority of info and opinions in them is from the band and associates.

I get it, I was a very productive realtor and just retired early this year after about 30 years. In the moment I took every client and every transaction incredibly seriously and devoted all my energies to resolving problems and accounting for the specific transaction details in each contract and file. But if a client from 2002 bumped into me tomorrow and just said “Oh hey! How are you? Hey thanks again for putting that protective language in our contract that saved us all kinds of grief, especially the second line in special provisions.” All I could do is say “Uh.. you’re welcome” without having any clue what it says. Having said that, I certainly do have specific memories of many clients and homes and contracts, but I’d hate to think that every day I might bump into a client that would be annoyed or offended if I didn’t remember every step of their transaction from years ago. And it doesn’t mean I cared any less when I worked on it if I didn’t remember it later. So I’m sure that when Geddy bumps into a fan who says “Wow! Geddy Lee! Hey, I’ve always wanted to know what the sixth line of Prime Mover meant and did you write that song before or after Turn the Page?” all he can think at first is “Holy crap, what album is he even asking about and what year was that… wasn’t I still in my thirties???” These guys don’t sit around listening to their own albums or watching their old interviews on YouTube or whatever. And it’s also totally unfair to go up to one of them and say “I saw you guys live in 1982 in Colorado, I was wearing the blue sweater and you made a funny face at me, remember?”

The Jacob's Ladder thing wasn't intended as a joke, he has acknowledged that he had to be reminded that they had played it previously. And that doesn't surprise me at all. Again, they don't catalog these things the same way that the fans do. Heck, in the Rio documentary Alex says they hadn't played By-Tor since probably 1978 or so even though it was played for a few tours after that and is in the ESL video. But there's no way he would know that unless someone told him. This isn't a Rush thing, ALL bands are like this.

Exactly. And that shouldn’t be surprising, I’ve heard countless artists not even remember which songs on are which albums and such. Most of them haven’t heard their own songs since they recorded them unless they’re live staples. Casual fans seem to have this expectation that you could randomly bump into Geddy and Alex on the street and hand them instruments and say “Play Different Strings for me” and they could do it on the spot. Most artists live in the moment, the fans know more about what they played on various tours and such than they do. I’ll bet Geddy hasn’t listened to ESL since it was mastered and I seriously doubt he knows what songs are on it. And again, this isn’t a criticism, that’s the case with almost all bands.

Yeah that was sloppy labeling, it’s definitely the Germany show, “Black Forest” bootleg.

I get it, 1984 is when I got seriously into the band. I guess we’ll find out soon.

We obviously all hope you're right, I'm just trying to keep my expectations low. As I've said, we'll know one way or another soon, within a year. If it exists and will ever be released then between the GUP 40th anniversary and the band's 50th anniversary there's no other reasonable opportunity, if it's not this next year then I think that will settle it.

And I still have no idea what this was supposed to mean from the original article: “But down the road when Blue-Ray technology becomes more popular and we are able to extend things out to levels beyond where we are at currently...we can then go back and release the found footage that was not on the original release." The idea that somehow DVD tech was not sufficient to add another 40 minutes of videotape footage is just weird. But hey, whatever it takes just get it all out. I want those later shows too, there are at least two RTB tour shows filmed as referenced above (I didn’t know about the Irvine Meadows one until I read the big touring book). They were on fire late in that tour. I saw them about 45 times, twice on the RTB tour, and it’s the only tour I ever saw where I had front row seats, for the Austin show. Also meant to add, I remember the talk about the 3D footage at the time and I remembered it when I was brainstorming recently about what additional footage there might be, but your post above is the first time I’ve seen anyone mention it since then.

Thank you for providing all that, it’s so incredibly frustrating to think about stuff being thrown away or simply rotting away through neglect. It’s kind of a catch 22 I guess as far as sales. Hardcore collectors like me will buy any box set even when they’re underwhelming but I know I’m in the small minority. Most people want more content before they’ll buy. I still think there are enough hardcore Rush fans to make box sets worth the time to produce them if they’ll fill them up with more content. If they don’t, well then yeah, they won’t sell.

Yeah, at least with the 1997 footage it was referred to by the band multiple times over the years, with the caveat that it had audio problems. But at least we knew it existed and was intended for release (Heck, parts of it were even in the live Closer to the Heart video from Different Stages). Just one example: "...we have other things in the vault as well, such as a concert that we recorded on the Test For Echo tour, with which we weren't satisfied at the time, but that's been replaced by its historical value." - Geddy Lee, Aardschok Magazine, March 2006 I have never seen or heard anyone in connection with the band outside of that old Maher article ever even reference the possibility we could ever see more 80s footage, but of course that doesn't mean it's not possible. I'm just pessimistic. Like I mentioned, between the (assumed) GUP box set and the opportunity to release 50th anniversary products we should know one way or the other within a year. I'm also shocked that I have never heard anyone in the band since about 1980 get asked about the 1979 Hammersmith Odeon concert film. How is that possible?

Yeah, I agree with you. I hope so much to be proven wrong (and I guess we'll find out within a year or maybe just a few months) about GUP footage. I don't think we'll ever see any more of those three 80s shows. I will happily call myself an idiot if I'm wrong. To be fair though, they released just about exactly half the 1997 show, just about an hour and a half. I was wanting that so badly for years and I hope we'll get the rest someday.

“The band's bassist/vocalist Andy Curran spent several years working at Rush's Anthem record label after Coney Hatch called it quits. In more recent years he moved on to Ole Music, a publishing house that took over the Anthem back catalog, including everything by Rush. He ended his tenure there last year and is now out on his own as a music industry gun-for-hire. “ https://www.rushisaband.com/blog/2020/10/02/5503/Coney-Hatch-front-man-and-former-Anthem-AR-rep-Andy-Curran-talks-Rush-in-new-interview This is from the Rush blog in 2020. He’s evidently still gone unless he came back and no one was told.

Very cool. And Paul McCartney never disappoints. Such a gracious and likable man, I’ve heard many stories like that, he’s eternally youthful and always loves to interact with any musicians around him.

This next year will be very informative I think for people who still want to see more stuff come out. If the box sets continue then we could and should still get more unreleased live audio and possibly video from those later album tours going forward, but in my opinion the 50th anniversary is a "now or never" opportunity for ever getting more or better ESL footage, or the 1979 Hammersmith Odeon concert video/album, or any other remaining older live audio or video. With those older era boxes already passed I just can't see them ever doing it if it's not for the 50th. I would kill for a R50 package like the R40 package that had the Laura Secord show and Lock and Key and the 1997 footage and more but with any remaining stuff they can find.

I’m really hoping for the 40th box sets to continue so I’ll just be greedy and hope for a GUP box AND some kind of 50th anniversary product. Technically, there is a TON of stuff surrounding that first album that hasn’t been officially released. Not to mention that the 40th box for the first album was vinyl only. I’m not saying that any of this is realistic or likely but my gosh, there are three full radio broadcasts of 1974 shows alone, plus the Laura Secord show, plus the Don Kirshner three songs, plus the first two singles that have never been rereleased on CD, plus the alternate version of Working Man with the different mix and solo, plus the ABC In Concert show which, although the video hasn’t surfaced, the audio for at least one song has. So that’s in addition to anything else they may have that’s never surfaced.

I just think if we were ever going to get anything else from ESL it would have been on the MP 40th box set. Again, I hope I'm wrong. Isn't ASOH on film, too? It doesn't look like video tape like the GUP one. Of course, I'm just as curious about all the other shows we know were filmed, plus the remaining footage from the 1997 Toronto and 1990 Auburn Hills shows.

Yep.

Yeah. I hate it as much as anyone, and I hope to someday have to say I was wrong, but I’m confident that we’ll never see any of the remaining footage from those concert videos. I just think it has something to do with how they were produced at the time, no thought was given to an expanded release decades later. And I’m talking about all concert videos of that era, not just Rush. As someone who started collecting concert videos in the 80s and has bought every upgraded one on DVD or Blu-ray as they’ve come out it’s been mostly a consistent thing that they’re re-released as they were. There ARE a few exceptions (The Police’s Synchronicity show has a few bonus songs and Yes’ 9012Live added Roundabout) but they’re pretty rare, and even when some extra footage is included it’s virtually always attached as a bonus and not reintegrated into the show because usually the quality doesn’t match. But the vast majority of the re-releases, which were all edited down back in the day, are still as they were. Van Halen’s Live Without a Net, Judas Priest Live, The Scorpions, The Who, etc. are all the same abbreviated shows. i think generally the thinking was very short term, and whatever footage that was edited out at the time was either trashed on the spot or else was set aside and ignored and just deteriorated over time or lost. Hoping to be proven wrong.

Yeah, I get that and every band has them. People often complain that older bands play the same songs every tour (Rush was FAR better mixing things up than most) and I usually defend the bands because we all know that no matter the band, about 90% of the crowd is there to hear the same 10-12 songs they know from the radio or greatest hits albums and that's it. But to narrow it down to one song and then shout it for three hours is a special kind of weird. Anyway, sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.