LeaveMyThingAlone Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Enemy Without Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 QUOTE (Presto_a RUSH fan_06-08-90 @ Nov 26 2011, 10:51 PM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Nov 26 2011, 10:33 PM) I know for a fact that Test for Echo sucks. Well, you do have more posts than me. So I will have to agree. TFE sucks. Dang...can't believe I have to stop listening to it. I wanna hear you say it! When I say Test for Echo, you say sucks! Test for Echo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The K Man Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Test for Echo is pretty good, but I agree that it is one of Rush's weakest albums to date (and quite possible THE weakest Rush record to date). It is probably not fair to pin it down to one single reason, but for all of the weaker lyrics and cluttery sound, the bottom line is that it doesn't have the songs. Musically, the album is not bad, but it just doesn't have a lot of memorable or great tunes. And even when they had a good idea for a song, it somehow went wrong....like taking a cool riff and writing an atrocious vocal melody to go with it in Time and Motion, for example. Also, I agree that Counterparts is their best since Moving Pictures, although if someone said Power Windows, I wouldn't argue with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCFIELDS Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Aside from Driven and Time and Motion, it's bad..... Edited November 27, 2011 by WCFIELDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Enemy Without Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 TFE is balls-deep in the pit of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grand phil-nale Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Nov 27 2011, 01:16 AM)TFE is balls-deep in the pit of mediocrity. Then where does that put S&A? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Enemy Without Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Nov 27 2011, 01:19 AM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Nov 27 2011, 01:16 AM)TFE is balls-deep in the pit of mediocrity. Then where does that put S&A? S&A is the pit of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grand phil-nale Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Nov 27 2011, 01:42 AM)QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Nov 27 2011, 01:19 AM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Nov 27 2011, 01:16 AM)TFE is balls-deep in the pit of mediocrity. Then where does that put S&A? S&A is the pit of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Necromancer_77 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 23 2011, 07:26 PM) Counterparts, which, obviously, is Rush's best album since Moving Pictures. i love counterparts but what the f**k is this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowItIs Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 09:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber I think you are missing the point. Which is - you're wrong in your basic supposition that everyone thinks T4E sucks. When you are trying to debate something from a faulty premise, you are bound not to get the conclusions, or even the debate, that you are seeking. I also find it obnoxious that you feel it is germane to the discussion to blame someone who had nothing to do with lyrics in any way. I think you're just casting around blindly to find a scapegoat for something you dislike. Why not just say you dislike T4E and move along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-a RUSH fan! Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 QUOTE (HowItIs @ Nov 27 2011, 03:28 AM)QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 09:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber I think you are missing the point. Which is - you're wrong in your basic supposition that everyone thinks T4E sucks. When you are trying to debate something from a faulty premise, you are bound not to get the conclusions, or even the debate, that you are seeking. I also find it obnoxious that you feel it is germane to the discussion to blame someone who had nothing to do with lyrics in any way. I think you're just casting around blindly to find a scapegoat for something you dislike. Why not just say you dislike T4E and move along? Finally, someone makes sense...or should I say has sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Enemy Without Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 TFE is neck-deep in the quicksand of disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 T4E>S&A (IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sawyer Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 11:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber There is no way to say subjectively that any album in the world sucks. That's right, even Justin Bieber's album does not suck subjectively, even though we all agree that it is one we do not like. But as for why you[/i] don't like it, Freddie Gruber is probably not the answer I would accept, although your explanation makes a little sense. (Just a little.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Lent's sis Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Tony R @ Nov 24 2011, 05:20 PM)I think every album since Power Windows has been rubbish so why single out T4E for special attention? This raises a good point. That is, once we get past the pedantic way of stepping around the matter, ie. taking issue with the premise that "everybody agrees", etc., there is an instructive, observable trend amongst fans, and I believe that it has a lot to do with when, and on what album got you hooked. If T4E was your intro to Rush, and you like it, then we are talking about an entirely different measuring stick than for one for whom, say, 2112 was the grabber. And I would say it likely makes a difference whether or not the album was new at the time. I KNOW THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THESE OBSERVATIONS. My first concert was Permanent Waves. Both Natural Science and Different Strings had a deep effect on me. And I was a mere fleeper at the time, who dug back into the catalog from there. I remember the smell of the albums (the plastic, the cardboard, the vinyl). Hemispheres, AFtK, 2112, CoS, FbN and even the Peartless debut, but also AtWaS. I remember recording the PeW St. Louis concert from the radio before I'd gone to the show myself. "Hey, St. Louis: I wanna see all your mthafn hands!" was Geddy's demand at the outset of In the Mood (he really did mumble "mthafn"; if you hadn't had the context, you wouldn't have known that he'd cursed). I digress for a reason. Going forward I found each record a greater challenge. Moving Pictures and Signals had to be listened to a couple of times before they hooked me. P/G even more so. But hook me they did. As did Power Windows. I could tell with each subsequent release how they were expanding their horizons. But then, HYF was the first that didn't sell me completely. Almost all of it took a while and I truly dig most of that album. But a couple of the tracks hipped me to something: they might be headed somewhere I'll never be ready to go. Enter Presto. Ditto, except more-so. More bad songs. Up to that point they always had a structure and arrangement - with the lyrics and vox - and they always broke out and downright jammed. Something was increasingly missing. I won't even go into RtB except to ask: Was this the album that Geddy referred to in an interview when he made a reference to the band having to deal with "having made a bad album"? When I got Counterparts I was so thrilled that they had done something so great. And it wasn't like it was "a return" to anything. I felt they were still moving forward, but made a significant departure. I love that album. Then came Test for Echo. Hmmm. For my money, this was a return. A return to Presto and Roll the Bones. So why do those of us who don't like it - not like it? Allow me to assume that Freddie Gruber was meant ironically, and that LMTA mean to say, "Neil Peart". Were his lyrics really slipping? I'm not sure. I have trouble analyzing them outside of the songs. Frankly, taken as a whole, only segments of Peart's poetry can stand alone without the music, in my opinion. To me, it has more to do with something that is missing from the vocal arrangements. Those albums - along with the last two - seem to lack the a certain creative edge that the others have. To my ears they sound like singing by the numbers. Is it the lyrics or the vocals? Dunno. But if Presto or RtB or TfE or VT were your intro to the band, you might not know what the f I am talking about. Edited November 28, 2011 by Ged Lent's sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughedatbytime Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 27 2011, 05:33 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 11:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber There is no way to say subjectively that any album in the world sucks. That's right, even Justin Bieber's album does not suck subjectively, even though we all agree that it is one we do not like. But as for why you[/i] don't like it, Freddie Gruber is probably not the answer I would accept, although your explanation makes a little sense. (Just a little.) I think you're confusing subjectively with objectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate2112 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 23 2011, 10:26 PM) So, as we all know, Test for Echo is one of Rush's worst efforts if not their worst, particularly the lyrics, which everyone here agrees is Neil's worst effort. The question has always been why, particularly coming on the heels of Counterparts, which, obviously, is Rush's best album since Moving Pictures After watching Beyond the Lighted stage for the 1,000 th time it has finally hit me why...Test For Echo is the album where Neil re-learned to play the drums under Freddie Gruber! Of course, drumming took priority and Neil probably put lyrics on the back burner.... Like me, many of you have always wondered why Neil's lyrics are so wrong.....and I think I have discovered one possible reason. So the next time you're listening to Virtuality, Half the World, Dog Years, of The Color of Right and are thinking to youself blame the late great Freddie Gruber I don't. Which qualifies as not everyone. I'm in a peculiar mood today...my friend and his soon to be girlfriend and how she was questioning me...ah those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sawyer Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Nov 28 2011, 12:43 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 27 2011, 05:33 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 11:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber There is no way to say subjectively that any album in the world sucks. That's right, even Justin Bieber's album does not suck subjectively, even though we all agree that it is one we do not like. But as for why you[/i] don't like it, Freddie Gruber is probably not the answer I would accept, although your explanation makes a little sense. (Just a little.) I think you're confusing subjectively with objectively. Wow, you're right. I mean that there is no way to say objectively that any album sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 03:29 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Nov 28 2011, 12:43 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 27 2011, 05:33 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 11:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber There is no way to say subjectively that any album in the world sucks. That's right, even Justin Bieber's album does not suck subjectively, even though we all agree that it is one we do not like. But as for why you[/i] don't like it, Freddie Gruber is probably not the answer I would accept, although your explanation makes a little sense. (Just a little.) I think you're confusing subjectively with objectively. Wow, you're right. I mean that there is no way to say objectively that any album sucks. S&A Sucks.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 28 2011, 04:33 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 03:29 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Nov 28 2011, 12:43 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 27 2011, 05:33 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 11:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber There is no way to say subjectively that any album in the world sucks. That's right, even Justin Bieber's album does not suck subjectively, even though we all agree that it is one we do not like. But as for why you[/i] don't like it, Freddie Gruber is probably not the answer I would accept, although your explanation makes a little sense. (Just a little.) I think you're confusing subjectively with objectively. Wow, you're right. I mean that there is no way to say objectively that any album sucks. S&A Sucks.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sawyer Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 28 2011, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 03:29 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Nov 28 2011, 12:43 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 27 2011, 05:33 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 11:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber There is no way to say subjectively that any album in the world sucks. That's right, even Justin Bieber's album does not suck subjectively, even though we all agree that it is one we do not like. But as for why you[/i] don't like it, Freddie Gruber is probably not the answer I would accept, although your explanation makes a little sense. (Just a little.) I think you're confusing subjectively with objectively. Wow, you're right. I mean that there is no way to say objectively that any album sucks. S&A Sucks.............. That is just your opinion. No one can say that objectively, without bias, but as far as individual people are concerned, I have no problem with you saying that. But unless 100% of the population agreed with you, your opinion wouldn't become fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 03:40 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 28 2011, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 03:29 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Nov 28 2011, 12:43 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 27 2011, 05:33 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 11:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber There is no way to say subjectively that any album in the world sucks. That's right, even Justin Bieber's album does not suck subjectively, even though we all agree that it is one we do not like. But as for why you[/i] don't like it, Freddie Gruber is probably not the answer I would accept, although your explanation makes a little sense. (Just a little.) I think you're confusing subjectively with objectively. Wow, you're right. I mean that there is no way to say objectively that any album sucks. S&A Sucks.............. That is just your opinion. No one can say that objectively, without bias, but as far as individual people are concerned, I have no problem with you saying that. But unless 100% of the population agreed with you, your opinion wouldn't become fact. I know more people that Hate it, than Like it. My world is getting BIGGER, Join me................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Nov 28 2011, 03:35 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 28 2011, 04:33 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 03:29 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Nov 28 2011, 12:43 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 27 2011, 05:33 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 11:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber There is no way to say subjectively that any album in the world sucks. That's right, even Justin Bieber's album does not suck subjectively, even though we all agree that it is one we do not like. But as for why you[/i] don't like it, Freddie Gruber is probably not the answer I would accept, although your explanation makes a little sense. (Just a little.) I think you're confusing subjectively with objectively. Wow, you're right. I mean that there is no way to say objectively that any album sucks. S&A Sucks.............. SOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sawyer Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 28 2011, 03:43 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 03:40 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 28 2011, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 03:29 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Nov 28 2011, 12:43 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 27 2011, 05:33 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 11:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber There is no way to say subjectively that any album in the world sucks. That's right, even Justin Bieber's album does not suck subjectively, even though we all agree that it is one we do not like. But as for why you[/i] don't like it, Freddie Gruber is probably not the answer I would accept, although your explanation makes a little sense. (Just a little.) I think you're confusing subjectively with objectively. Wow, you're right. I mean that there is no way to say objectively that any album sucks. S&A Sucks.............. That is just your opinion. No one can say that objectively, without bias, but as far as individual people are concerned, I have no problem with you saying that. But unless 100% of the population agreed with you, your opinion wouldn't become fact. I know more people that Hate it, than Like it. My world is getting BIGGER, Join me................. But some like it, me included, so you just have an opinion, albeit a very popular one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 04:13 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 28 2011, 03:43 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 03:40 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 28 2011, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 28 2011, 03:29 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Nov 28 2011, 12:43 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Nov 27 2011, 05:33 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 26 2011, 11:57 PM) Well, this thread certainly took a different voyage than it's intended purpose. Namely, it has turned into a debate whether T4E sucks or not, when it was meant to be some reasoning as to WHY it sucks. I didn't think whether it sucked or not was up for debate LOL Trust me on this one guy...it sucks. Move past that debate. (Don't get me wrong. There are a few keepers...the title track, Driven, and Totem are all on my iPod) Now let's ask ourselves WHY...so let's blame Freddie Gruber There is no way to say subjectively that any album in the world sucks. That's right, even Justin Bieber's album does not suck subjectively, even though we all agree that it is one we do not like. But as for why you[/i] don't like it, Freddie Gruber is probably not the answer I would accept, although your explanation makes a little sense. (Just a little.) I think you're confusing subjectively with objectively. Wow, you're right. I mean that there is no way to say objectively that any album sucks. S&A Sucks.............. That is just your opinion. No one can say that objectively, without bias, but as far as individual people are concerned, I have no problem with you saying that. But unless 100% of the population agreed with you, your opinion wouldn't become fact. I know more people that Hate it, than Like it. My world is getting BIGGER, Join me................. But some like it, me included, so you just have an opinion, albeit a very popular one. Don't take things so Serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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