Can we say sarcasm???

[trenken]

QUOTE (Synthetic @ Jun 2 2010, 08:13 AM)

Personally I love it - I love the sarcastic attack on religion. I laugh out loud at the concept of a god or any ethereal afterlife and this is comical. The inflection in Geddy's voice is amazingly haunting as well! He really lands home the point of the song. It is akin to one of my favorite anti-religion lines: Faith is cold as ice Why are little ones born only to suffer For the want of immunity Or a bowl of rice? Well, who would hold a price On the heads of the innocent children If there's some immortal power To control the dice? Man I love rush...

Wow you sound pretty mature. Not only do you love sarcastic attacks on it, but you laugh at ppl that believe in it? Nice guy you are.

[Synthetic]

 

But back on subject - the song ROCKS and I really dig the lyrics!

[tangy]

to me it all boils down to the problem of evil.

[Khan]

I don't need to think that much.

[Merely Space]

QUOTE (Synthetic @ Jun 2 2010, 10:20 AM)

It has nothing to do with being nice. I have seen what religion does to cultures and people and it is ridiculously destructive. PERIOD. Remove religion from the world and which current wars would still be going on... hmmm NONE. I am an anti-theist (which is an atheist who has seen and understands the effects of a culture of people raised to believe in a myth and taking lives over it). Do me this, Mr. Enlightened, think about this: "Imagine a world with no religion. Imagine no suicide bombers, no 9/11, no 7/7, no Crusades, no witch-hunts, no Gunpowder Plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestinian wars, no Serb/Croat/Muslim massacres, no persecution of jews as 'Christ-killers', no Northern Ireland 'troubles', no 'honour killings', no shiny-suited bouffant-haired televangelists fleecing gullible people of their money. Imagine no Taliban to blow up ancient statues, no public beheadings of blasphemers, no flogging of female skin for the crime of showing an inch of it." - Richard Dawkins The comical side of the whole religion thing is this - usually people are whatever religion their parents are... They are raised with that faith. If you are raised in Mississippi and taught that Christ is Lord and all other religions are false and you are willing to die for that faith - the same person born in Syria believing that Allah is God and all others who do not believe that Allah is God must die. All of this SOLELY based on where you were BORN? Interesting. Basically if you choose to believe in the tooth fairy - that is fine... When you oppress or kill people because of said belief - I have a problem with that. Oppress also applies to Christianity as well... In person I am one of the nicest people you will meet - I simply have disdain for people who blindly believe in fairytales and base their life on that 'faith' without any shred of basis of fact. In fact - God has all but been proven to be a fabrication of superstition... And for the record - the MINUTE I learn that someone is religious - I immediately lose respect for their character... But thanks for judging me...

It seems to me, you're willingness to be disdainful of other people is very similar to the symptoms of religion you purport to object to.

[moedrabowsky]

This ground was covered by Peart on Snakes and Arrows (and really, since Freewill) as well as by better thinkers and smarter men than Neil Peart.

 

He can write what he wants, but BU2B is as pedantic as it comes, and the sorry by-product of that pedantry is it frees people who form their worldview and opinions based on Rush lyrics to make uninformed, insulting and unoriginal attacks on a subject they barely understand.

 

And this is coming from a confirmed agnostic.

[trenken]

You're only talking about ppl that kill in the name of religion and god, extremists. Religion has saved a lot of bad ppl, changed them. It can be a very good thing, something very healthy to help ppl better themselves and get through life in the best way they can.

 

Like I said im not religious at all, but I sure as hell am not gonna sit here like some nut and say religion should be removed from the world. You sound insane saying something like that, ignoring the good things it does for ppl.

 

There is no way for you or anyone to know what is outside the universe, or how any of this got here. Many of these ppl arent looking for facts, or for science to solve this riddle, its just something to believe in, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Noone is saying they know what god is, or even if its aware of us at all, its just an anchor for them.

 

You remove religion and ppl will find plenty of other reasons to kill. Thats human nature, it really doesnt have a lot to do with religion. 9-11 happened for a lot of reasons, it wasnt tied to religion. They dont like our way of life, they dont want us on their land, thats why that happened. I cant relate to ppl like you so "blinded by what they see in the world".

[Ya_Big_Tree]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 2 2010, 11:32 AM)

You remove religion and ppl will find plenty of other reasons to kill. Thats human nature, it really doesnt have a lot to do with religion. 9-11 happened for a lot of reasons, it wasnt tied to religion. They dont like our way of life, they dont want us on their land, thats why that happened. I cant relate to ppl like you so "blinded by what they see in the world".

I'm sorry but I think you are confusing "Human Nature" with Avarice. Which is what some may say is the root of all the evil in the world. It's pretty sad that you would say Humans kill others because it is in our nature.

[trenken]

QUOTE (Ya_Big_Tree @ Jun 2 2010, 10:44 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 2 2010, 11:32 AM) You remove religion and ppl will find plenty of other reasons to kill. Thats human nature, it really doesnt have a lot to do with religion. 9-11 happened for a lot of reasons, it wasnt tied to religion. They dont like our way of life, they dont want us on their land, thats why that happened. I cant relate to ppl like you so "blinded by what they see in the world". I'm sorry but I think you are confusing "Human Nature" with Avarice. Which is what some may say is the root of all the evil in the world. It's pretty sad that you would say Humans kill others because it is in our nature. Welcome to Earth dude. People kill all the time, and it usually has to do with territory, power, money, not religion.   You get rid of religion, I hate to tell you think but there wont be any less killing in the world.

[Ya_Big_Tree]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 2 2010, 11:46 AM)

QUOTE (Ya_Big_Tree @ Jun 2 2010, 10:44 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 2 2010, 11:32 AM) You remove religion and ppl will find plenty of other reasons to kill. Thats human nature, it really doesnt have a lot to do with religion. 9-11 happened for a lot of reasons, it wasnt tied to religion. They dont like our way of life, they dont want us on their land, thats why that happened. I cant relate to ppl like you so "blinded by what they see in the world". I'm sorry but I think you are confusing "Human Nature" with Avarice. Which is what some may say is the root of all the evil in the world. It's pretty sad that you would say Humans kill others because it is in our nature. Welcome to Earth dude. People kill all the time, and it usually has to do with territory, power, money, not religion. My point exactly... is that not Avarice?   Just for the record dude, you are already preaching to the choir about the evils of Organized Religion. I happen to agree that there is a lot of evil going on in the name of Religion (whatever the sect) and it's just stupid that people are killing eachother over the same message because they believe it was worded differently.   "Treat others how you want to be treated" - plain and simple, no scripture needed. Somehow people forget this and it's NOT because of Human Nature, which was my main issue with your above post. Have a lil faith in Humanity.

[Todem]

QUOTE (RUSHHEAD666 @ Jun 1 2010, 09:49 PM)

QUOTE (CeeJ @ Jun 1 2010, 06:39 PM) "All is for the best Believe in what we're told Blind men in the market Buying what we're sold Believe in what we're told Until our final breath While our loving Watchmaker Loves us all to death" Anyone else? Incredible lyrics. I'm going to get them tattooed on my penis. Post of the thread!!!!

[Todem]

QUOTE (Synthetic @ Jun 2 2010, 08:13 AM)

Personally I love it - I love the sarcastic attack on religion.  I laugh out loud at the concept of a god or any ethereal afterlife and this is comical. The inflection in Geddy's voice is amazingly haunting as well!  He really lands home the point of the song. It is akin to one of my favorite anti-religion lines: Faith is cold as ice Why are little ones born only to suffer For the want of immunity Or a bowl of rice? Well, who would hold a price On the heads of the innocent children If there's some immortal power To control the dice? Man I love rush...

Roll the Bones.....awesome song...and to hell with those who have bashed it over the years....great friggin song...great message.

 

 

Yeah I love Rush.

[bigalfan]

It seems to me that Richard Dawkins may have gotten into the head of the world's greatest rock drummer and it's now beyond just 'anti-religion'. It seems to me it's no longer just, "I will choose freewill", rather it's now the "Watchmaker" who's "loving us all to death". Synthetic seems to think it's great! Not me.

 

Which is it Neil? Is God non-existent, or is He doing it all wrong - according to your standards? It can't be both!!

 

Man. We despise God. Mock Him. Spit on Him. Deny Him. Then, we turn around and blame Him for the shit we do to each other, the idiotic decisions we make apart from His words to us and for the general cesspool we create for ourselves. Awesome! Make no mistake, EVERYONE is following an idealogy...EVERYONE! Everyone has an ideological bent. No one has a real "path that's clear" as the song tries to portray. Most (not all) Atheists would have you believe they are ideologically free and that's why their thinking is so clear....baloney!

 

It's easy for the wealthy, white, western male (have you noticed most atheists are?) to point the fingers at "religion" and say from their easy, comfortable throwns, "There enlies the problem that ails all of society. Do away with it!" Yup...that's reeeeal easy. "That's not my ideology...so let's abolish it...because I'm so open-minded and my way is the way that's best for all...unlike the way of those close-minded simpletons!"

 

I have yet to hear a good explanation for where the "morality" that claims, "God, you're wrong!" comes from in those who deny His existence. On what basis can such a claim be made? But, that's for another topic and another time.

 

Anti-religion I get. Jesus was immensely anti-religious and the true, biblical message of Christianity is anti-religious. Thinking Christians can't stand the religious snake oil salemen/women of the world just as much as the Atheist, trust me. Neither do they suscribe to a "salvation is through self-obtainable morality" ideology. But, hey, keep throwing the baby out with the bath water and keep ignoring the Augustines, C.S. Lewis's and Ravi Zacharias's of the world. Just keep lumping them in with the Benny Hinns, suicide bombers and "crutch needers". Lump us all together and throw us all out. That's fine! I see it's working out REAL well for you and your society. A western society that continues to turn it's back on God, and embrace self-achieving relativism as it's god instead - now, unfortunately, even in many of it's "churches".

 

It's consequences are reflecting your ideologcal beliefs in a fabulous way. Just make sure to keep locking those doors, building those fences/walls and keeping those weapons sharp....to keep the increasing religion-free "goodness" of mankind in check, of course.

 

I don't hate Neil, or Atheists, and in many ways I can relate to their honest questioning more than I can some of the crap that passes for Christianity in the west. And, I obviously think Rush consists of three phenomenal musicians as well as three genuine guys, but unlike a few others here, I don't like what I perceive as perhaps the beginning of a new, darker turn of ideological ideas for this band. I hope I am wrong. I hope to see some more "Stick it Out" and "Natural Science" type lyrics on the upcoming CD and not more of what seem to be reflections on the ideology of Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.

 

The Watchmaker sucks! Yup, that ideology is helping to build quite the awesome society for us all!

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 2 2010, 11:32 AM)

You're only talking about ppl that kill in the name of religion and god, extremists. Religion has saved a lot of bad ppl, changed them. It can be a very good thing, something very healthy to help ppl better themselves and get through life in the best way they can. Like I said im not religious at all, but I sure as hell am not gonna sit here like some nut and say religion should be removed from the world. You sound insane saying something like that, ignoring the good things it does for ppl. There is no way for you or anyone to know what is outside the universe, or how any of this got here. Many of these ppl arent looking for facts, or for science to solve this riddle, its just something to believe in, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Noone is saying they know what god is, or even if its aware of us at all, its just an anchor for them. You remove religion and ppl will find plenty of other reasons to kill. Thats human nature, it really doesnt have a lot to do with religion. 9-11 happened for a lot of reasons, it wasnt tied to religion. They dont like our way of life, they dont want us on their land, thats why that happened. I cant relate to ppl like you so "blinded by what they see in the world".

Trenken...just wanted to say...

 

Seriously...I appreciate this post. I agree with you here.

 

The bottom line for me is, I LOVE RUSH. LOVE them...easily miles and away my all-time favourite band, and I never see that changing. Ever.

 

With that said, I am as much a Christian as you will find. I also want to point out that I was a HUGE fan of S&A...great album.

 

My only issue with this is that after 3 years removed from S&A, I assumed Neil was ready to move on to some other topic. 'Caravan' seems to be removed from it, but BU2B sounds like the 14th track from S&A (at least, lyrically for sure).

 

Again, I'm not bashing Neil or his lyrics...the guy has a gift when it comes to lyric-writing. He's amazing at it. I was just ready to see Neil and the boys move on to a completely different topic...I miss the days of past albums where religion wouldn't see the light of day.

 

Bottom line...I hope that BU2B was just made from leftover S&A lyric ideas, and that it is the last song related to the topic. Hopefully the rest of Clockwork Angels follows a different theme...because almost anything else would make me happy.

 

Now...to watch this thread hit SOCN territory...

[Show Don't Tell]

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u195/Number-4/Icons/trf.png http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?showforum=6

 

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (Show Don't Tell @ Jun 2 2010, 12:22 PM)

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u195/Number-4/Icons/trf.png http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?showforum=6

Yep...that's what I was thinking...

 

Right from the first post...I was sure it was going to get to this level.

[theredtamasrule]

We have SOCN for a reason.

[trenken]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 2 2010, 11:17 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 2 2010, 11:32 AM) You're only talking about ppl that kill in the name of religion and god, extremists. Religion has saved a lot of bad ppl, changed them. It can be a very good thing, something very healthy to help ppl better themselves and get through life in the best way they can. Like I said im not religious at all, but I sure as hell am not gonna sit here like some nut and say religion should be removed from the world. You sound insane saying something like that, ignoring the good things it does for ppl. There is no way for you or anyone to know what is outside the universe, or how any of this got here. Many of these ppl arent looking for facts, or for science to solve this riddle, its just something to believe in, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Noone is saying they know what god is, or even if its aware of us at all, its just an anchor for them. You remove religion and ppl will find plenty of other reasons to kill. Thats human nature, it really doesnt have a lot to do with religion. 9-11 happened for a lot of reasons, it wasnt tied to religion. They dont like our way of life, they dont want us on their land, thats why that happened. I cant relate to ppl like you so "blinded by what they see in the world". Trenken...just wanted to say...   Seriously...I appreciate this post. I agree with you here.   The bottom line for me is, I LOVE RUSH. LOVE them...easily miles and away my all-time favourite band, and I never see that changing. Ever.   With that said, I am as much a Christian as you will find. I also want to point out that I was a HUGE fan of S&A...great album.   My only issue with this is that after 3 years removed from S&A, I assumed Neil was ready to move on to some other topic. 'Caravan' seems to be removed from it, but BU2B sounds like the 14th track from S&A (at least, lyrically for sure).   Again, I'm not bashing Neil or his lyrics...the guy has a gift when it comes to lyric-writing. He's amazing at it. I was just ready to see Neil and the boys move on to a completely different topic...I miss the days of past albums where religion wouldn't see the light of day.   Bottom line...I hope that BU2B was just made from leftover S&A lyric ideas, and that it is the last song related to the topic. Hopefully the rest of Clockwork Angels follows a different theme...because almost anything else would make me happy.   Now...to watch this thread hit SOCN territory... Well in fairness to Neil, it does seem like this is a little different. S&A was more of an attack on religion, and the people that use for the wrong reason, or try to force it on you.   This album sounds like it will deal more with god itself, what is controlling the universe, is anything controlling us, or is it just all chaos and we are free to do as we will? Why are good people stricken with disease if there is anyone in control over this? So I think there is a difference between these 2 albums, but it's still a topic he's covered before a bunch of times, which tells me that his creative well is actually dry, he's written so much he is unable to come up with new things to write about.   From Prime Mover:   I set the wheels in motion Turn up all the machines Activate the programs And run behind the scene   I set the clouds in motion Turn up light and sound Activate the window And watch the world go 'round     This is why I really thought after having a baby, he might have a more positive approach to this album. It really would have been nice for a change. Celebrate the gift of life, music, all that is good. Forget about whats bad, you cant change that, just live in the now and lets get some goddamn positivity out of this miserable guy for once.   If he still wants to talk about religion, there are many positive aspect of it, even though im not religious, im well aware of the good things it can do for people. Neil, and others on this site, just think its all bad. I dont get that one-sided view on things.

[bigalfan]

QUOTE (tangy @ Jun 2 2010, 10:23 AM)

to me it all boils down to the problem of evil.

 

An honest statement! And one with which I agree. I believe Christianity gives the best possible answer of all ideologies to that question, but you are right - evil is a problem for EVERY ideology.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 2 2010, 01:02 PM)

Well in fairness to Neil, it does seem like this is a little different. S&A was more of an attack on religion, and the people that use for the wrong reason, or try to force it on you. This album sounds like it will deal more with god itself, what is controlling the universe, is anything controlling us, or is it just all chaos and we are free to do as we will? Why are good people stricken with disease if there is anyone in control over this? So I think there is a difference between these 2 albums, but it's still a topic he's covered before a bunch of times, which tells me that his creative well is actually dry, he's written so much he is unable to come up with new things to write about. From Prime Mover: I set the wheels in motion Turn up all the machines Activate the programs And run behind the scene I set the clouds in motion Turn up light and sound Activate the window And watch the world go 'round This is why I really thought after having a baby, he might have a more positive approach to this album. It really would have been nice for a change. Celebrate the gift of life, music, all that is good. Forget about whats bad, you cant change that, just live in the now and lets get some goddamn positivity out of this miserable guy for once. If he still wants to talk about religion, there are many positive aspect of it, even though im not religious, im well aware of the good things it can do for people. Neil, and others on this site, just think its all bad. I dont get that one-sided view on things.

YES...I would LOVE to see Rush start writing more tunes in the vein of a PRIME MOVER. A very positive and up-lifting song.

 

I agree...I really thought having a baby and such would really bring a light-hearted warmth to his lyrics...but I must say, BU2B is about as dark a Rush song as I have ever heard...at least since GUP.

 

I hope that the rest of the new album has some focus on the good in life. If he can touch on the good aspects in life, and write some uplifting lyrics and keep the kick ass music, I think we'll be in for a real treat with CA.

 

I just feel like these lyrics should've been written on VT...post tragedies. Everything since that point has essentially picked up in Neil's life, and it seems like the Rush songs are now heading down a dark road. Weird...because I always expected the opposite.

 

Either way, like I mentioned...I LOVE the two new songs, and I loved S&A. I just can't help but feel all of the negativity when listening to this new side of Rush...and long to get the vibes I get everytime I put in a Power Windows or a Signals.

[Khan]

QUOTE (RUSHHEAD666 @ Jun 1 2010, 09:49 PM)

QUOTE (CeeJ @ Jun 1 2010, 06:39 PM) "All is for the best Believe in what we're told Blind men in the market Buying what we're sold Believe in what we're told Until our final breath While our loving Watchmaker Loves us all to death" Anyone else? Incredible lyrics. I'm going to get them tattooed on my penis. Let us know how that works out for ya...

[trenken]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 2 2010, 12:13 PM)

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 2 2010, 01:02 PM) Well in fairness to Neil, it does seem like this is a little different. S&A was more of an attack on religion, and the people that use for the wrong reason, or try to force it on you. This album sounds like it will deal more with god itself, what is controlling the universe, is anything controlling us, or is it just all chaos and we are free to do as we will? Why are good people stricken with disease if there is anyone in control over this? So I think there is a difference between these 2 albums, but it's still a topic he's covered before a bunch of times, which tells me that his creative well is actually dry, he's written so much he is unable to come up with new things to write about. From Prime Mover: I set the wheels in motion Turn up all the machines Activate the programs And run behind the scene I set the clouds in motion Turn up light and sound Activate the window And watch the world go 'round This is why I really thought after having a baby, he might have a more positive approach to this album. It really would have been nice for a change. Celebrate the gift of life, music, all that is good. Forget about whats bad, you cant change that, just live in the now and lets get some goddamn positivity out of this miserable guy for once. If he still wants to talk about religion, there are many positive aspect of it, even though im not religious, im well aware of the good things it can do for people. Neil, and others on this site, just think its all bad. I dont get that one-sided view on things. YES...I would LOVE to see Rush start writing more tunes in the vein of a PRIME MOVER. A very positive and up-lifting song.   I agree...I really thought having a baby and such would really bring a light-hearted warmth to his lyrics...but I must say, BU2B is about as dark a Rush song as I have ever heard...at least since GUP.   I hope that the rest of the new album has some focus on the good in life. If he can touch on the good aspects in life, and write some uplifting lyrics and keep the kick ass music, I think we'll be in for a real treat with CA.   I just feel like these lyrics should've been written on VT...post tragedies. Everything since that point has essentially picked up in Neil's life, and it seems like the Rush songs are now heading down a dark road. Weird...because I always expected the opposite.   Either way, like I mentioned...I LOVE the two new songs, and I loved S&A. I just can't help but feel all of the negativity when listening to this new side of Rush...and long to get the vibes I get everytime I put in a Power Windows or a Signals. Well like I said, this is nothing new at all for them, its just that it was more spread out, you would get a very negative song here and there, but not entire albums filled with them. So then we get S&A, and now an extension of that with this. Its really getting old now.   Every album could be their last, especially after having a damn baby, can he maybe just celebrate that a little bit, celebrate their careers, the highs in life, just being alive and healthy? God that would be so refreshing from them.   And have the music reflect that, really soaring melodies and choruses. Instead I feel like we're going to another dark and dull album. Great way to go out guys. I havent gotten the chills from listening to a rush song in ages, I would love for them to get that back, knock me on my ass, and then call it a career. Instead its more emo whining about religion, dreary music that bores me, and bitching about all the bad shit in life that none of us can do anything about. So glad Im not friends with him or anyone like him. If I ever had the chance to meet him I would not take it. I literally dont have 1 thing to say to the guy.

[tangy]

QUOTE (Todem @ Jun 2 2010, 11:03 AM)

QUOTE (RUSHHEAD666 @ Jun 1 2010, 09:49 PM) QUOTE (CeeJ @ Jun 1 2010, 06:39 PM) "All is for the best Believe in what we're told Blind men in the market Buying what we're sold Believe in what we're told Until our final breath While our loving Watchmaker Loves us all to death" Anyone else? Incredible lyrics. I'm going to get them tattooed on my penis. Post of the thread!!!!

[Pags]

QUOTE (Synthetic @ Jun 2 2010, 11:20 AM)

It has nothing to do with being nice. I have seen what religion does to cultures and people and it is ridiculously destructive. PERIOD. Remove religion from the world and which current wars would still be going on... hmmm NONE. I am an anti-theist (which is an atheist who has seen and understands the effects of a culture of people raised to believe in a myth and taking lives over it). Do me this, Mr. Enlightened, think about this: "Imagine a world with no religion. Imagine no suicide bombers, no 9/11, no 7/7, no Crusades, no witch-hunts, no Gunpowder Plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestinian wars, no Serb/Croat/Muslim massacres, no persecution of jews as 'Christ-killers', no Northern Ireland 'troubles', no 'honour killings', no shiny-suited bouffant-haired televangelists fleecing gullible people of their money. Imagine no Taliban to blow up ancient statues, no public beheadings of blasphemers, no flogging of female skin for the crime of showing an inch of it." - Richard Dawkins The comical side of the whole religion thing is this - usually people are whatever religion their parents are... They are raised with that faith. If you are raised in Mississippi and taught that Christ is Lord and all other religions are false and you are willing to die for that faith - the same person born in Syria believing that Allah is God and all others who do not believe that Allah is God must die. All of this SOLELY based on where you were BORN? Interesting. Basically if you choose to believe in the tooth fairy - that is fine... When you oppress or kill people because of said belief - I have a problem with that. Oppress also applies to Christianity as well... In person I am one of the nicest people you will meet - I simply have disdain for people who blindly believe in fairytales and base their life on that 'faith' without any shred of basis of fact. In fact - God has all but been proven to be a fabrication of superstition... And for the record - the MINUTE I learn that someone is religious - I immediately lose respect for their character... But thanks for judging me...

These kinds of posts are not suited for this particular forum. I know the lyrics of this song can easily spark off this kind of convo, but these kinds of statements should be made in the SOCN forum, please. Feel free to request access (if you don't already have it) with the admins - and continue this discussion there.

 

Let's all keep specific religious/political opinions reserved for that forum.

 

Thanks.

[trenken]

QUOTE (Pags @ Jun 2 2010, 12:28 PM)

QUOTE (Synthetic @ Jun 2 2010, 11:20 AM) It has nothing to do with being nice.  I have seen what religion does to cultures and people and it is ridiculously destructive.  PERIOD. Remove religion from the world and which current wars would still be going on... hmmm  NONE. I am an anti-theist (which is an atheist who has seen and understands the effects of a culture of people raised to believe in a myth and taking lives over it). Do me this, Mr. Enlightened, think about this: "Imagine a world with no religion. Imagine no suicide bombers, no 9/11, no 7/7, no Crusades, no witch-hunts, no Gunpowder Plot, no Indian partition, no Israeli/Palestinian wars, no Serb/Croat/Muslim massacres, no persecution of jews as 'Christ-killers', no Northern Ireland 'troubles', no 'honour killings', no shiny-suited bouffant-haired televangelists fleecing gullible people of their money. Imagine no Taliban to blow up ancient statues, no public beheadings of blasphemers, no flogging of female skin for the crime of showing an inch of it." - Richard Dawkins The comical side of the whole religion thing is this - usually people are whatever religion their parents are...  They are raised with that faith.  If you are raised in Mississippi and taught that Christ is Lord and all other religions are false and you are willing to die for that faith - the same person born in Syria believing that Allah is God and all others who do not believe that Allah is God must die.  All of this SOLELY based on where you were BORN?  Interesting. Basically if you choose to believe in the tooth fairy - that is fine...  When you oppress or kill people because of said belief - I have a problem with that.  Oppress also applies to Christianity as well...  In person I am one of the nicest people you will meet - I simply have disdain for people who blindly believe in fairytales and base their life on that 'faith' without any shred of basis of fact.  In fact - God has all but been proven to be a fabrication of superstition... And for the record - the MINUTE I learn that someone is religious - I immediately lose respect for their character... But thanks for judging me... These kinds of posts are not suited for this particular forum. I know the lyrics of this song can easily spark off this kind of convo, but these kinds of statements should be made in the SOCN forum, please. Feel free to request access (if you don't already have it) with the admins - and continue this discussion there.   Let's all keep specific religious/political opinions reserved for that forum.   Thanks. Who do we ask for access for that? I tried to move over there before and noticed I didnt have access.   Naturally with a band like this, writing lyrics like these, heated discussions are bound to happen, shouldnt everyone just have automatic access to that page?