Lyrics Discussion: Beneath, Between, and Behind

[mfratt]

Alright, there seemed to be some interest in this, so lets give it a shot.

To save time, I figure we can skip the songs with obvious lyrical interpretations (which up to this point included everything on the debut album).

 

The first one I ran across that looked to be worth discussion was Beneath Between and Behind.

 

So, without further ado, please indulge us with your interpretations of the lyrics (keep in mind, that even though you may have read an interview or something where Peart or whomever said what they were supposed to mean, do not be afraid to share YOUR personal interpretations):

 

Ten score years ago, defeat the kingly foe

A wondrous dream came into being

Tame the trackless waste, no virgin land left chaste

All shining eyes, but never seeing

 

Beneath the noble bird

Between the proudest words

Behind the beauty, cracks appear

Once, with heads held high

They sang out to the sky

Why do their shadows bow in fear?

 

Watch the cities rise

Another ship arrives

Earth's melting pot and ever growing

Fantastic dreams come true

Inventing something new

The greatest minds, and never knowing...

 

The guns replace the plow, facades are tarnished now

The principles have been betrayed

The dreams's gone stale, but still, let hope prevail

History's debt won't be repaid

 

 

[Weakly Criminal]

Seems to me to be an obvious description of the USA, and our descent from fortress of liberty and bastion of ideals into mammon driven warrior empire.

 

Of course Neil points out that the seeds of corruption were there from the start.

 

All shining eyes, but never seeing

 

The greatest minds, and never knowing

 

The bit that's always puzzled me is the last line.

 

History's debt won't be repaid.

 

Who's debt? The American's, or the worlds? Perhaps by being so vague, he's implying a bit of both.

[thedoorsdk]

Yeah, I always viewed it as a history lesson.

[mfratt]

Hmm, can't believe I missed that, seems so obvious now though. Reminds me of a quote by Alexander Tyler from 1787 (spoken about the Athenian Empire some 2000 years earlier:

 

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot

exist as a permanent form of government."

 

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the

beginning of history, has been about 200 years."

 

"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through

the following sequence:

 

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;

 

2. From spiritual faith to great courage;

 

3. From courage to liberty;

 

4. From liberty to abundance;

 

5. From abundance to complacency;

 

6. From complacency to apathy;

 

7. From apathy to dependence;

 

8. From dependence back into bondage"

 

Seems to go along a similar theme.

Edited April 24, 2007 by mfratt

[Bluefunk]

QUOTE (Weakly Criminal @ Apr 23 2007, 11:25 PM)

The bit that's always puzzled me is the last line. History's debt won't be repaid. Who's debt?  The American's, or the worlds? Perhaps by being so vague, he's implying a bit of both.

I always interpreted this line as meaning, mankind's debt to the world, as in the lands they exploit and the peoples they overthrow (not necessarily meaning the Americas, but throughout the world throughout history). It always made me think of the way that history repeats itself, how every historical event has happened before somewhere, somewhen. Maybe the debt is the burden of being doomed to repeating ourselves because we don't learn from history.

[TacRedline]

QUOTE (Bluefunk @ Apr 24 2007, 11:48 AM)

Maybe the debt is the burden of being doomed to repeating ourselves because we don't learn from history.

(great thread btw, good song choice too)

 

"History's debt won't be repaid."

 

Maybe it means: Regardless of what an ascended society does NOW they can not repay for the deeds it took for them to get there. (ahem, American Indians...)

 

 

QUESTION:

 

"Ten score years ago, defeat the kingly foe"

 

Can anyone narrow down who/what year this is? Is Neil talking about the US/UK revolutionary war? (~1776?)

Edited April 24, 2007 by TacRedline

[DonB]

One flawed system being overthrown and replaced by the promise of something better, only to find the new system rife with flaws of it's own. History's debt cannot be repaid because "something better" never really is achieved.

"Ten score years ago" would be 200 years. (a score is equal to 20) That would have been 1775. Certainly a reference to the U.S. who overthrew the king, then set about pillaging the continent they fought so hard to win.

[Weakly Criminal]

QUOTE (DonB @ Apr 24 2007, 04:29 PM)

One flawed system being overthrown and replaced by the promise of something better, only to find the new system rife with flaws of it's own. History's debt cannot be repaid because "something better" never really is achieved.

Certainly a true observation, and TR's also, but if that's what Peart meant, then why 'let hope prevail' ?

 

I wonder if he was saying that the USA won't be repaid for it's injustice's and excesses. If so, he may be reconsidering that position.

[AntKellett]

I'm not sure these lyrics are correct. The last line (history's debt won't be repaid) is different to the one in my 1975 LP, and the inserted lyric sheet. That seems to be a collage of Neil's handwritten lyrics (with little drawings). I don't know if it's actually 'original', but it looks good!

 

Anyway, the line in those scribblings was: "Hope that history's debt won't be repaid", which I've always read as meaning, 'you had better hope that history's debt won't be repaid".

[Lurkst]

As 3rd song on the album lyrics go, it's certainly an improvement on Take A Friend.

 

[taurus]

having a lyric open to interpretation allows us to enjoy the words for a longer period of time.

 

I recall Peart saying this was the first lyric he wrote for the band - not sure if I'm remembering that accurately though. A very good 1st time out, best lyrics on that record

[Lurkst]

I recall Peart saying this was the first lyric he wrote for the band - not sure if I'm remembering that accurately though.

 

I think that's correct.

 

It's a great song, annoys me that they cut the second verse out of later live versions, it lasted only 3 minutes as it was!

[ytserush]

I recall Peart saying this was the first lyric he wrote for the band - not sure if I'm remembering that accurately though.

 

I think that's correct.

 

It's a great song, annoys me that they cut the second verse out of later live versions, it lasted only 3 minutes as it was!

 

I know they finally commented about the Natural Science rearrangement, but I don't recall anyone talking about this one.

[grep]

Alright, there seemed to be some interest in this, so lets give it a shot.

To save time, I figure we can skip the songs with obvious lyrical interpretations (which up to this point included everything on the debut album).

 

The first one I ran across that looked to be worth discussion was Beneath Between and Behind.

 

So, without further ado, please indulge us with your interpretations of the lyrics (keep in mind, that even though you may have read an interview or something where Peart or whomever said what they were supposed to mean, do not be afraid to share YOUR personal interpretations):

 

Ten score years ago, defeat the kingly foe

A wondrous dream came into being

Tame the trackless waste, no virgin land left chaste

All shining eyes, but never seeing

 

Beneath the noble bird

Between the proudest words

Behind the beauty, cracks appear

Once, with heads held high

They sang out to the sky

Why do their shadows bow in fear?

 

Watch the cities rise

Another ship arrives

Earth's melting pot and ever growing

Fantastic dreams come true

Inventing something new

The greatest minds, and never knowing...

 

The guns replace the plow, facades are tarnished now

The principles have been betrayed

The dreams's gone stale, but still, let hope prevail

History's debt won't be repaid

 

 

I've never dug into those lyrics before today.

 

Looking at them..... I'm pretty sure he's talking about the USA. Edit: Reading the above comments, seems a few of us feel the same way about the meaning.

 

Reminds me of The Kinks - Superman. Or Styx - Suite Madame Blue.

Edited June 27, 2020 by grep

[Lurkst]

Looking at them..... I'm pretty sure he's talking about the USA.

 

Absolutely.

 

"Ten score years ago,

Defeat the kingly foe"

 

The bicentennial was pretty big news in 1975/6.

 

 

[goose]

Looking at them..... I'm pretty sure he's talking about the USA.

 

Absolutely.

 

"Ten score years ago,

Defeat the kingly foe"

 

The bicentennial was pretty big news in 1975/6.

So was Nixon's resignation over Watergate. Cracks appear.

[Principled Man]

Looking at them..... I'm pretty sure he's talking about the USA.

 

Absolutely.

 

"Ten score years ago,

Defeat the kingly foe"

 

The bicentennial was pretty big news in 1975/6.

So was Nixon's resignation over Watergate. Cracks appear.

 

Verse 1: The 1770's - Revolution & Independence

Verse 2: The 1870's - Industrialization & immigration

Verse 3: The 1970's - Corruption & decay

 

What will the 2070's bring us? What will Olivia Peart be writing in 50 years? Will she save us all from extinction? I hope so!

Edited June 27, 2020 by Principled Man

[_hi_water._]

Alright, there seemed to be some interest in this, so lets give it a shot.

To save time, I figure we can skip the songs with obvious lyrical interpretations (which up to this point included everything on the debut album).

 

The first one I ran across that looked to be worth discussion was Beneath Between and Behind.

 

So, without further ado, please indulge us with your interpretations of the lyrics (keep in mind, that even though you may have read an interview or something where Peart or whomever said what they were supposed to mean, do not be afraid to share YOUR personal interpretations):

 

Ten score years ago, defeat the kingly foe

A wondrous dream came into being

Tame the trackless waste, no virgin land left chaste

All shining eyes, but never seeing

 

Beneath the noble bird

Between the proudest words

Behind the beauty, cracks appear

Once, with heads held high

They sang out to the sky

Why do their shadows bow in fear?

 

Watch the cities rise

Another ship arrives

Earth's melting pot and ever growing

Fantastic dreams come true

Inventing something new

The greatest minds, and never knowing...

 

The guns replace the plow, facades are tarnished now

The principles have been betrayed

The dreams's gone stale, but still, let hope prevail

History's debt won't be repaid

the song is actually about... nevermind it might get people angry