SOCN

[Rhyta]

I came here to discuss Rush when I joined years ago. I don't want to argue about politics here so I have never gone to SOCN. I think it is good to have a place for those who want to get into the discussions. I have noticed since the early part of the year some stuff from SOCN has bled over into the discussions here but I didn't have a problem with the OP stating his case, at least it is in a separate thread.

 

Earl, I love GUP and Al DiMeola is fantastic. RUSH ON :haz: :rush: :guitar:

[pablorkcz]

Basically, people on the far ends of the spectrum -- either end -- seem to have the most trouble in a mixed political forum like ours. Everyone else seems to do just fine. And we're seeing a microcosm of that in this thread.

 

Interesting you mention "the spectrum" here. Because the one in the real world looks like this:

 

 

Which, as I've shown before, here are where the 2020 US Candidates lined up on that spectrum:

 

 

But given that, specifically Bernie Sanders, is seen as an extremist, fringe left in SOCN, and Joe Biden is consider left and seen (correctly) as an authoritarian, you have to conclude that SOCN's prevailing group political spectrum looks something like this:

 

 

And so yes, if, according to the SOCN zeitgeist, you fall on an extreme end of the spectrum on the last graph, you will have a difficult time in SOCN.

 

And to be fair to SOCN, this is close to what mainstream US sees as the political spectrum. Although mainstream US cuts off the bottom third of the graph entirely.

 

 

I speak with non-Americans on a daily basis. They are always flabbergasted at American politics. Since we're outside of SOCN, I am speaking mostly to non-Americans when I say all this. Because it starts to shine light on what is going on in the US.

 

Bernie Sanders would be a centrist, slightly left candidate in most European countries. And on the LIbertarian side. But in the US, he's see as far left hippie. In SOCN, he is vilified as a communist. And this is why.

 

Edited to make better graphs.

 

The longer I thought about it, the more I think that this is the more accurate compass for SOCN:

 

 

There's a strange bubbling that happens where some left libertarian ideas are accepted, but seen as "fairly left of center" ideas when really, they are just fairly close to centrist, slightly on the left side. Usually these ideals handle already established, left wing/centerist aspects of American life that are taken for granted.

 

So I tried to warp the graph so that where Bernie Sanders is on the graph, center left, is clearly perceived as upper right, and where I personally would be, moderate lower left, is seen as extremist.

 

The ultimate point here is that, when the moderators and regulars say that they get along with everyone who "isn't an extremist", their version of extreme is very warped. Literally warped, that's the Photoshop tool I used to do this, the warp tool.

 

Would you provide the source for your candidate graph, please?

[JARG]

This thread is illustrating something interesting, I think.

 

Look at the people who are participating here. The majority are being diplomatic, giving an honest assessment of what SOCN is like for them without mentioning or plugging their position on the political spectrum, or bad-mouthing someone else's position, and they're also cracking jokes, talking about music, and generally not taking themselves too seriously. Those people are either SOCN regulars who have had little to no trouble over the years discussing heated political issues, or people who don't yet have SOCN access but would probably do okay in there, if they were interested. These people are easy to identify if you go back and read the whole thread.

 

And then we have a few others who are also SOCN regulars, but they're complaining how hard it is to hang out in there, how oppressive, mean-spirited and partisan the above-mentioned regulars are, and they generally have that no-compromise "My team against the enemy team!" outlook, as if there are only two teams to pick from. They're often closed-minded and are only interested in lecturing/schooling/judging or trying to catch members of the other team in a "gotcha" moment. They don't do quite as well in SOCN. They may last in there for several years, but that time isn't exactly productive -- for them or anyone else. Those few people, one could argue, take themselves way too seriously, and they are also easy to identify once you go back and read here.

 

Basically, people on the far ends of the spectrum -- either end -- seem to have the most trouble in a mixed political forum like ours. Everyone else seems to do just fine. And we're seeing a microcosm of that in this thread.

 

I also think it's good to manage one's expectations/motives when deciding to join SOCN. If you go in there with the mindset that you're going to change the minds of people who are deeply entrenched in their points of view (and most of us in there are, and that's probably because the average age of SOCN is somewhere in the 40s), then you're going to experience disappointment. Yes, you may cause someone to reevaluate their stance on a particular topic, but as far as I can tell as a long-time member of SOCN, most of my fellow long-time members hold pretty much the same views today as they did the first time I engaged with them.

 

And of course you need a thick skin. For most folks in SOCN, politics is something they hold pretty dear, and they'll strongly defend their points of view when challenged, and strongly challenge other points of views. As I said, nothing you say is likely to change anyone's mind, but be expected to argue as if that could happen, which means your arguments generally need to be sound and supported.

 

So if you want to test your ideas against those who don't hold them and see how they measure up, or if you're sincerely interested in seeing why other people believe what they believe, or if you just get off on knowing that people read what you write (*ahem*), and if you've got a thick skin, SOCN can be a fun place.

 

If your goal is to tell people with different points of view from yours that they're morons, or if you can't support your points of view with sound logic and/or quality citations (or if you get butt-hurt when those shortcomings become fodder for ridicule), then SOCN is going to feel pretty hostile.

[New World Kid]

Would you provide the source for your candidate graph, please?

 

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

 

This website is the most common one when folks look to take a political compass test. I would assume they plugged in the positions of the candidates to arrive at the values reflected.

[taurus]

I'm listening to Music From The Elder, why?

 

Bored? Wondering if it's as bad as widely reported?

 

one of my fave Kiss albums

 

Alive/Destroyer/Revenge/The Elder/Creatures of the Night

 

oh...and my cat's breath smells like cat food

Edited June 30, 2020 by taurus

[_hi_water._]

I'm listening to Music From The Elder, why?

 

Bored? Wondering if it's as bad as widely reported?

 

one of my fave Kiss albums

 

Alive/Destroyer/Revenge/The Elder/Creatures of the Night

 

oh...and my cat's breath smells like cat food

:spitwater:

[goose]

I love that 73 hasn't locked this one down yet.

 

He does a great job.

 

:ebert:

 

Believe it or not, I was going to say that yesterday too.

 

I better get on the ball.

 

This thread has turned out so well.

 

Something for everyone. :smoke:

 

Even morons. ;)

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

I love that 73 hasn't locked this one down yet.

 

This thread went down a different path than the one the OP intended. :)

[goose]

 

 

But given that, specifically Bernie Sanders, is seen as an extremist, fringe left in SOCN, and Joe Biden is consider left and seen (correctly) as an authoritarian, you have to conclude that SOCN's prevailing group political spectrum looks something like this:

 

 

 

 

And this is what is so fascinating to me, because you're assessment is wrong. Just a couple of weeks ago many of us revisited the test and we fall towards the bottom left. We posted those results, and you had a chance to look them over. Not sure how you missed it. I think this is a perfect example of someone coming into SOCN with a particular lens and only seeing what they want to see, especially when their ideas are challenged.

[JARG]

But given that, specifically Bernie Sanders, is seen as an extremist, fringe left in SOCN, and Joe Biden is consider left and seen (correctly) as an authoritarian, you have to conclude that SOCN's prevailing group political spectrum looks something like this:

 

 

 

 

And this is what is so fascinating to me, because you're assessment is wrong. Just a couple of weeks ago many of us revisited the test and we fall towards the bottom left. We posted those results, and you had a chance to look them over. Not sure how you missed it. I think this is a perfect example of someone coming into SOCN with a particular lens and only seeing what they want to see, especially when their ideas are challenged.

 

 

Hmmmm...I guess I need to revisit that thread, too. As I recall many people were somewhere in the lower right quadrant.

 

That said, I would put the "SOCN center" more left than where NWK has it. It's Y-axis positioning is about right, though.

Edited June 30, 2020 by JARG

[goose]

But given that, specifically Bernie Sanders, is seen as an extremist, fringe left in SOCN, and Joe Biden is consider left and seen (correctly) as an authoritarian, you have to conclude that SOCN's prevailing group political spectrum looks something like this:

 

 

 

 

And this is what is so fascinating to me, because you're assessment is wrong. Just a couple of weeks ago many of us revisited the test and we fall towards the bottom left. We posted those results, and you had a chance to look them over. Not sure how you missed it. I think this is a perfect example of someone coming into SOCN with a particular lens and only seeing what they want to see, especially when their ideas are challenged.

 

 

Hmmmm...I guess I need to revisit that thread, too. As I recall many people were somewhere in the lower right quadrant.

 

Yep. That was also the case.

[New World Kid]

 

 

But given that, specifically Bernie Sanders, is seen as an extremist, fringe left in SOCN, and Joe Biden is consider left and seen (correctly) as an authoritarian, you have to conclude that SOCN's prevailing group political spectrum looks something like this:

 

 

 

 

And this is what is so fascinating to me, because you're assessment is wrong. Just a couple of weeks ago many of us revisited the test and we fall towards the bottom left. We posted those results, and you had a chance to look them over. Not sure how you missed it. I think this is a perfect example of someone coming into SOCN with a particular lens and only seeing what they want to see, especially when their ideas are challenged.

 

I revised the graph later in the thread, and acknowledge why.

[Maverick]

I honestly pity most of the regulars in SOCN.

 

Feeling sorry for yourself is not the way to go.

 

[Rush Didact]

SOCN is full of climate change deniers, Trump apologists, and plausibly-deniable racists. It's toxic as hell.

[Maverick]

SOCN is full of climate change skeptics, anti-Hillary patriots, and open minded egalitarians. It's awesome .

 

I fixed it for you!

[Rush Didact]

SOCN is full of climate change skeptics, anti-Hillary patriots, and open minded egalitarians. It's awesome .

 

I fixed it for you!

 

See, here's the thing: I run a climate observatory for a living. I'm the guy who collects the raw data that proves the climate is changing and we're responsible for it. Telling me that you're "skeptical" of climate change is like telling a plumber you doubt the existence of copper pipes. It's not a valid area for debate, especially among Youtube-educated laypeople.

 

At this point, I have about as much tolerance for climate change "skeptics" as I do for shit-clogged toilets.

 

And that's why I stay the hell out of SOCN. :)

[JARG]

SOCN is full of climate change deniers, Trump apologists, and plausibly-deniable racists.

 

You'll be happy to know he quit in a huff.

[laughedatbytime]

SOCN is full of climate change skeptics, anti-Hillary patriots, and open minded egalitarians. It's awesome .

 

I fixed it for you!

 

See, here's the thing: I run a climate observatory for a living. I'm the guy who collects the raw data that proves the climate is changing and we're responsible for it. Telling me that you're "skeptical" of climate change is like telling a plumber you doubt the existence of copper pipes. It's not a valid area for debate, especially among Youtube-educated laypeople.

 

At this point, I have about as much tolerance for climate change "skeptics" as I do for shit-clogged toilets.

 

And that's why I stay the hell out of SOCN. :)

I'm just glad we could find a person with this much detachment about the issue to ensure that the data that's collected will have been done so in as fair minded a way as possible.

[laughedatbytime]

SOCN is full of climate change deniers, Trump apologists, and plausibly-deniable racists.

 

You'll be happy to know he quit in a huff.

Not happy as much as incredibly shocked that such an even keeled sort would be unable to rationally discuss things.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

SOCN is full of climate change skeptics, anti-Hillary patriots, and open minded egalitarians. It's awesome .

 

I fixed it for you!

 

See, here's the thing: I run a climate observatory for a living. I'm the guy who collects the raw data that proves the climate is changing and we're responsible for it. Telling me that you're "skeptical" of climate change is like telling a plumber you doubt the existence of copper pipes. It's not a valid area for debate, especially among Youtube-educated laypeople.

 

At this point, I have about as much tolerance for climate change "skeptics" as I do for shit-clogged toilets.

 

And that's why I stay the hell out of SOCN. :)

I'm just glad we could find a person with this much detachment about the issue to ensure that the data that's collected will have been done so in as fair minded a way as possible.

 

Talking about how SOCN works here in the Rush section and how we feel about it and the different types of people that hang out in there is one thing. Actually getting into a debate about a particularly heated political issue out here is another. ;)

[Maverick]

I was just having a little fun, but I'll keep the politics in the SOCN proper.

 

 

[Rush Didact]

I'm just glad we could find a person with this much detachment about the issue to ensure that the data that's collected will have been done so in as fair minded a way as possible.

 

See, this is what "skeptics" don't understand about science: science doesn't give a shit about my opinion. The observatory has a set of operating procedures that have been agreed on and standardized internationally, and we follow them to the letter. My feelings don't enter into this at all. I don't have to be "fair-minded" anymore than an electrician has to be fair-minded when he's following code.

[Rush Didact]

And yes, political discussion doesn't belong in this thread. The sad thing is that scientific fact is considered a political belief in this day and age.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

And yes, political discussion doesn't belong in this thread. The sad thing is that scientific fact is considered a political belief in this day and age.

 

Yep, pretty much everything is polarized and politicized now, at least here in the U.S.

[goose]

And yes, political discussion doesn't belong in this thread. The sad thing is that scientific fact is considered a political belief in this day and age.

Data are impartial. Interpretations of data and the inference of causation around those interpretations are not.