SOCN

[Fordgalaxy]

And yes, political discussion doesn't belong in this thread. The sad thing is that scientific fact is considered a political belief in this day and age.

Data are impartial. Interpretations of data and the inference of causation around those interpretations are not.

I know it's one of those odd things about English, but it sounds so much more correct to my ears to say "data is impartial" (and not the android on TNG either).

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

And yes, political discussion doesn't belong in this thread. The sad thing is that scientific fact is considered a political belief in this day and age.

Data are impartial. Interpretations of data and the inference of causation around those interpretations are not.

I know it's one of those odd things about English, but it sounds so much more correct to my ears to say "data is impartial" (and not the android on TNG either).

 

I was about to say the same thing. "Data are impartial" sounds wrong, but it ain't.

[goose]

And yes, political discussion doesn't belong in this thread. The sad thing is that scientific fact is considered a political belief in this day and age.

Data are impartial. Interpretations of data and the inference of causation around those interpretations are not.

I know it's one of those odd things about English, but it sounds so much more correct to my ears to say "data is impartial" (and not the android on TNG either).

I agree. I had a colleague who insisted that we use the plural "data are", so that kind of stuck with me. Being a smart-ass by nature, I did point out that she never insisted we say "Today's agenda are...".

[RUSHHEAD666]

I came here to discuss Rush when I joined years ago. I don't want to argue about politics here so I have never gone to SOCN. I think it is good to have a place for those who want to get into the discussions. I have noticed since the early part of the year some stuff from SOCN has bled over into the discussions here but I didn't have a problem with the OP stating his case, at least it is in a separate thread.

 

Earl, I love GUP and Al DiMeola is fantastic. RUSH ON :haz: :rush: :guitar:

 

Thanks Rhyta!!! YOU ROCK! GUP and AL D RULE!

 

RUSH ON!!!! :haz: :Neil: :haz:

[RUSHHEAD666]

I think you would like Riverside Zepp.

Hehehe I do Earl!!! They are a very popular band in the prog scene here ... a tragedy when Piotr Grudziński died suddenly. Wasteland was a bittersweet album without him

but i played it soooo many times. It will be interesting to hear the new album when it comes out with the new guitarist.

 

Hahaha! I knew you know dig Riverside. Silly me!! Very sad about Pioter. Terrible tragedy. RIP

 

Glad Riverside is carrying on. Excited for the new record. Haken is another one I bet you love. Many forum folks here are big fans.

[RUSHHEAD666]

Please explore Pendragon.

 

No one on this forum gives a shit about this band. It's hilarious.

 

I'm an American Boy in love with neo classical prog.

 

I must have been dropped on my head as a rushhead baby.

 

The new Pendragon album is their best in 17 years. The album is called "Love Over Fear." Go figure.

 

Remember the last Marillion album? F.E.A.R.

 

FUCKK EVERYONE AND RUN!!!!

 

Great record. I saw the tour here in San Francisco.

 

I love Rothery. I've met the boys in Marillion a few times.

 

I partied with FISH once on his tour bus after the "Sunset Of Empire" Tour. FISH is a hoot! I LOVE HIM!

 

Humans hate FISH. They love "H" more. I want to vomit.

 

I met "H" once backstage with the guys. He's a werido introvert.

 

Rothery? A gentleman.

Mark Kelly? Wonderful.

Pete? Incredible man. I talked with him for like 20 minutes!!! Also on a cell phone!!

Ian. Quiet but cool.

 

I can't stand "H."

 

He ruined the band.

 

I do like "Season's End."

"Holidays In Eden." Prog pop brilliance.

"Brave" Great.

 

"Afraid Of Sunlight?" WTF??????

 

No wonder EMI dropped Marillion into the dumpster. LOL! JUNK!

 

I should write a book Zepp. So many stories. I've met them all buddy. Well almost. lol

You are preaching to the converted Earl!! Whilst in my younger days i focused on heavy rock (and still love it), I have always loved Prog in all its forms.

I remember when Script for a Jester's Tear came out in '83 all the trendy music mags like NME slagged it because it wasn't punk/new wave ..... that's what made me

buy it! I loved all the Fish era Marillion stuff ..... I struggle a wee bit with Marillion without Fish - I like some things and find other things a bit dull. Rothery did a lovely solo album a couple of years back though.

Apart from the obvious 'old' Prog bands like Genesis, Tull, Yes, Floyd, Gentle Giant, Camel, there are also some not so obvious old ones like Focus, PFM, Fruupp, Caravan, Nektar, Eloy, Argent etc etc.

Of the so called wave of 'neo-prog' bands .... some of the bands i listen to are (in no particular order!)

Marillion

Arena

IQ

Pendragon

Sylvan

Galahad

Riverside

Magenta

Wobbler

Magic Pie

Gin Lady (formerly Black Bonzo) ..... to name but a few!

 

WOW! I know most of those bands and have all of their albums, however lots to explore there on your list.

 

Thank you prog brother!

[RUSHHEAD666]

Please explore Pendragon.

 

No one on this forum gives a shit about this band. It's hilarious.

 

I'm an American Boy in love with neo classical prog.

 

I must have been dropped on my head as a rushhead baby.

 

The new Pendragon album is their best in 17 years. The album is called "Love Over Fear." Go figure.

 

Remember the last Marillion album? F.E.A.R.

 

FUCKK EVERYONE AND RUN!!!!

 

Great record. I saw the tour here in San Francisco.

 

I love Rothery. I've met the boys in Marillion a few times.

 

I partied with FISH once on his tour bus after the "Sunset Of Empire" Tour. FISH is a hoot! I LOVE HIM!

 

Humans hate FISH. They love "H" more. I want to vomit.

 

I met "H" once backstage with the guys. He's a werido introvert.

 

Rothery? A gentleman.

Mark Kelly? Wonderful.

Pete? Incredible man. I talked with him for like 20 minutes!!! Also on a cell phone!!

Ian. Quiet but cool.

 

I can't stand "H."

 

He ruined the band.

 

I do like "Season's End."

"Holidays In Eden." Prog pop brilliance.

"Brave" Great.

 

"Afraid Of Sunlight?" WTF??????

 

No wonder EMI dropped Marillion into the dumpster. LOL! JUNK!

 

I should write a book Zepp. So many stories. I've met them all buddy. Well almost. lol

You are preaching to the converted Earl!! Whilst in my younger days i focused on heavy rock (and still love it), I have always loved Prog in all its forms.

I remember when Script for a Jester's Tear came out in '83 all the trendy music mags like NME slagged it because it wasn't punk/new wave ..... that's what made me

buy it! I loved all the Fish era Marillion stuff ..... I struggle a wee bit with Marillion without Fish - I like some things and find other things a bit dull. Rothery did a lovely solo album a couple of years back though.

Apart from the obvious 'old' Prog bands like Genesis, Tull, Yes, Floyd, Gentle Giant, Camel, there are also some not so obvious old ones like Focus, PFM, Fruupp, Caravan, Nektar, Eloy, Argent etc etc.

Of the so called wave of 'neo-prog' bands .... some of the bands i listen to are (in no particular order!)

Marillion

Arena

IQ

Pendragon

Sylvan

Galahad

Riverside

Magenta

Wobbler

Magic Pie

Gin Lady (formerly Black Bonzo) ..... to name but a few!

"Script for a Jester's Tear"? Is that real? Because it sounds like a better, more pitch perfect parody of the archetypal prog song than anything that the legendary writers of Spinal Tap did for metal.

 

 

Hahahaha!! You make me laugh out loud at time!!!! You just compared early Marillion to Spinal Tap. Hahahahaha! That's classic.

 

As I do love both bands, hey it's all good. I agree with Zepp. I know the Fish Marillion was like an 80's Peter Gabriel Genesis ripoff but hell I loved it.

I was a kid when I bought "Script" on cassette. Fell in love.

 

I would still tell you today in 2020 that "The Web" is still my favorite song by them. However "Clutching At Straws" as a whole is in my top ten records of all time.

[RUSHHEAD666]

Please explore Pendragon.

 

No one on this forum gives a shit about this band. It's hilarious.

 

I'm an American Boy in love with neo classical prog.

 

I must have been dropped on my head as a rushhead baby.

 

The new Pendragon album is their best in 17 years. The album is called "Love Over Fear." Go figure.

 

Remember the last Marillion album? F.E.A.R.

 

FUCKK EVERYONE AND RUN!!!!

 

Great record. I saw the tour here in San Francisco.

 

I love Rothery. I've met the boys in Marillion a few times.

 

I partied with FISH once on his tour bus after the "Sunset Of Empire" Tour. FISH is a hoot! I LOVE HIM!

 

Humans hate FISH. They love "H" more. I want to vomit.

 

I met "H" once backstage with the guys. He's a werido introvert.

 

Rothery? A gentleman.

Mark Kelly? Wonderful.

Pete? Incredible man. I talked with him for like 20 minutes!!! Also on a cell phone!!

Ian. Quiet but cool.

 

I can't stand "H."

 

He ruined the band.

 

I do like "Season's End."

"Holidays In Eden." Prog pop brilliance.

"Brave" Great.

 

"Afraid Of Sunlight?" WTF??????

 

No wonder EMI dropped Marillion into the dumpster. LOL! JUNK!

 

I should write a book Zepp. So many stories. I've met them all buddy. Well almost. lol

You are preaching to the converted Earl!! Whilst in my younger days i focused on heavy rock (and still love it), I have always loved Prog in all its forms.

I remember when Script for a Jester's Tear came out in '83 all the trendy music mags like NME slagged it because it wasn't punk/new wave ..... that's what made me

buy it! I loved all the Fish era Marillion stuff ..... I struggle a wee bit with Marillion without Fish - I like some things and find other things a bit dull. Rothery did a lovely solo album a couple of years back though.

Apart from the obvious 'old' Prog bands like Genesis, Tull, Yes, Floyd, Gentle Giant, Camel, there are also some not so obvious old ones like Focus, PFM, Fruupp, Caravan, Nektar, Eloy, Argent etc etc.

Of the so called wave of 'neo-prog' bands .... some of the bands i listen to are (in no particular order!)

Marillion

Arena

IQ

Pendragon

Sylvan

Galahad

Riverside

Magenta

Wobbler

Magic Pie

Gin Lady (formerly Black Bonzo) ..... to name but a few!

"Script for a Jester's Tear"? Is that real? Because it sounds like a better, more pitch perfect parody of the archetypal prog song than anything that the legendary writers of Spinal Tap did for metal.

Script for a Jester's Tear kick started the whole neo-prog scene inspiring musicians who actually wanted to play their instruments .... a real two fingers up to all the trendy music press of the time who

thought that punk had killed the so called 'dinasaurs of rock'. That didn't happen .... probably because people eventually realised that learning 3 chords, playing a simplistic 2 min song loudly and fast, does not

a great record make. So.... is Script for a Jester's Tear real??? .... bloody right it is!!

 

"Quite right, you're bloody well right!"

 

Love,

 

Supertramp

[RUSHHEAD666]

Please explore Pendragon.

 

No one on this forum gives a shit about this band. It's hilarious.

 

I'm an American Boy in love with neo classical prog.

 

I must have been dropped on my head as a rushhead baby.

 

The new Pendragon album is their best in 17 years. The album is called "Love Over Fear." Go figure.

 

Remember the last Marillion album? F.E.A.R.

 

FUCKK EVERYONE AND RUN!!!!

 

Great record. I saw the tour here in San Francisco.

 

I love Rothery. I've met the boys in Marillion a few times.

 

I partied with FISH once on his tour bus after the "Sunset Of Empire" Tour. FISH is a hoot! I LOVE HIM!

 

Humans hate FISH. They love "H" more. I want to vomit.

 

I met "H" once backstage with the guys. He's a werido introvert.

 

Rothery? A gentleman.

Mark Kelly? Wonderful.

Pete? Incredible man. I talked with him for like 20 minutes!!! Also on a cell phone!!

Ian. Quiet but cool.

 

I can't stand "H."

 

He ruined the band.

 

I do like "Season's End."

"Holidays In Eden." Prog pop brilliance.

"Brave" Great.

 

"Afraid Of Sunlight?" WTF??????

 

No wonder EMI dropped Marillion into the dumpster. LOL! JUNK!

 

I should write a book Zepp. So many stories. I've met them all buddy. Well almost. lol

You are preaching to the converted Earl!! Whilst in my younger days i focused on heavy rock (and still love it), I have always loved Prog in all its forms.

I remember when Script for a Jester's Tear came out in '83 all the trendy music mags like NME slagged it because it wasn't punk/new wave ..... that's what made me

buy it! I loved all the Fish era Marillion stuff ..... I struggle a wee bit with Marillion without Fish - I like some things and find other things a bit dull. Rothery did a lovely solo album a couple of years back though.

Apart from the obvious 'old' Prog bands like Genesis, Tull, Yes, Floyd, Gentle Giant, Camel, there are also some not so obvious old ones like Focus, PFM, Fruupp, Caravan, Nektar, Eloy, Argent etc etc.

Of the so called wave of 'neo-prog' bands .... some of the bands i listen to are (in no particular order!)

Marillion

Arena

IQ

Pendragon

Sylvan

Galahad

Riverside

Magenta

Wobbler

Magic Pie

Gin Lady (formerly Black Bonzo) ..... to name but a few!

"Script for a Jester's Tear"? Is that real? Because it sounds like a better, more pitch perfect parody of the archetypal prog song than anything that the legendary writers of Spinal Tap did for metal.

A 47-minute epic crafted around atonal variations on Smokey Robinson's Tears of a Clown?

 

"Killing Me Softly"

 

Signed,

 

Roberta Flack

[RUSHHEAD666]

This thread is illustrating something interesting, I think.

 

Look at the people who are participating here. The majority are being diplomatic, giving an honest assessment of what SOCN is like for them without mentioning or plugging their position on the political spectrum, or bad-mouthing someone else's position, and they're also cracking jokes, talking about music, and generally not taking themselves too seriously. Those people are either SOCN regulars who have had little to no trouble over the years discussing heated political issues, or people who don't yet have SOCN access but would probably do okay in there, if they were interested. These people are easy to identify if you go back and read the whole thread.

 

And then we have a few others who are also SOCN regulars, but they're complaining how hard it is to hang out in there, how oppressive, mean-spirited and partisan the above-mentioned regulars are, and they generally have that no-compromise "My team against the enemy team!" outlook, as if there are only two teams to pick from. They're often closed-minded and are only interested in lecturing/schooling/judging or trying to catch members of the other team in a "gotcha" moment. They don't do quite as well in SOCN. They may last in there for several years, but that time isn't exactly productive -- for them or anyone else. Those few people, one could argue, take themselves way too seriously, and they are also easy to identify once you go back and read here.

 

Basically, people on the far ends of the spectrum -- either end -- seem to have the most trouble in a mixed political forum like ours. Everyone else seems to do just fine. And we're seeing a microcosm of that in this thread.

 

I'm far right and never have a problem because I allow others to think as they like.

 

BINGO!!

[RUSHHEAD666]

Greatest thread ever!

 

Time for some Riverside.

 

Earl, what would we do without you?

 

Oh big sister! You are so sweet. "Sweet Soul Sister!" THE CULT! lol

 

I do love it here even through the ups and downs. Such is life.

 

I'm glad to be part of this Rush Gang. If I wasn't around you would always have the Mighty Duck.

 

 

Quack quack! lol

[goose]

 

"Quite right, you're bloody well right!"

 

Love,

 

Supertramp

I've been on a Supertramp binge lately. Can't get enough of that jangly stuff!

[RUSHHEAD666]

"Quite right, you're bloody well right!"

 

Love,

 

Supertramp

I've been on a Supertramp binge lately. Can't get enough of that jangly stuff!

 

Hahaha! I am putting in "Crime Of The Century" and "Breakfast In America" tonight!

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

"Quite right, you're bloody well right!"

 

Love,

 

Supertramp

I've been on a Supertramp binge lately. Can't get enough of that jangly stuff!

 

Hahaha! I am putting in "Crime Of The Century" and "Breakfast In America" tonight!

 

The picture and sound quality of this live clip from 1979 is really impressive. Great song, too. The guitar solo at the end is one of my favorites.

 

[Rush Didact]

And yes, political discussion doesn't belong in this thread. The sad thing is that scientific fact is considered a political belief in this day and age.

Data are impartial. Interpretations of data and the inference of causation around those interpretations are not.

 

And that's precisely why I just laugh whenever someone accuses me of not being "fair-minded". My job is to collect the data, I don't do the interpretation. I just make sure the scientists who ARE doing the interpreting have the best possible material to work with. I take a lot of pride in making sure we produce the highest quality data possible.

 

If anyone thinks I go in to work every day thinking, "How can I mess with the instruments to make them produce data that reflects my personal biases?" they're seriously delusional about how climate science is done. It would be mind-bogglingly difficult to do that without someone noticing. And at the end of the day, our observatory is only one in a network of dozens. It would take a conspiracy of thousands of people working as a cohesive unit to meaningfully tamper with this kind of data.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Rush Didact

[Rush Didact]

And another note about those scientists doing the interpreting: They consider the two questions "Is the climate changing?" and "Are humans causing it?" to be answered conclusively and no longer worth discussing. As far as the mainstream (i.e., non-crackpot) scientific community is concerned, those questions were answered to everyone's satisfaction by the late 1970s.

 

The questions being asked today are along the lines of, "How does anthropogenic emission of aerosols affect the global heat balance through their role as cloud condensation nuclei?" They're far narrower in focus, because they're aimed specifically at improving the performance of predictive climate models.

 

No serious scientist is still wasting their time trying to answer, "Are humans causing climate change?" unless they're on the payroll of an oil company or a political organization with a vested interest in a negative answer.

[Rush Didact]

So, to conclude, y'all will have to forgive me if I treat "climate skeptics" with a heaping spoonful of derision and disdain.

[goose]

"Quite right, you're bloody well right!"

 

Love,

 

Supertramp

I've been on a Supertramp binge lately. Can't get enough of that jangly stuff!

 

Hahaha! I am putting in "Crime Of The Century" and "Breakfast In America" tonight!

 

The picture and sound quality of this live clip from 1979 is really impressive. Great song, too. The guitar solo at the end is one of my favorites.

 

http://youtu.be/uHM88mZ4k50

One of the great outros.

[goose]

And yes, political discussion doesn't belong in this thread. The sad thing is that scientific fact is considered a political belief in this day and age.

Data are impartial. Interpretations of data and the inference of causation around those interpretations are not.

 

And that's precisely why I just laugh whenever someone accuses me of not being "fair-minded". My job is to collect the data, I don't do the interpretation. I just make sure the scientists who ARE doing the interpreting have the best possible material to work with. I take a lot of pride in making sure we produce the highest quality data possible.

 

If anyone thinks I go in to work every day thinking, "How can I mess with the instruments to make them produce data that reflects my personal biases?" they're seriously delusional about how climate science is done. It would be mind-bogglingly difficult to do that without someone noticing. And at the end of the day, our observatory is only one in a network of dozens. It would take a conspiracy of thousands of people working as a cohesive unit to meaningfully tamper with this kind of data.

 

[tangy]

And another note about those scientists doing the interpreting: They consider the two questions "Is the climate changing?" and "Are humans causing it?" to be answered conclusively and no longer worth discussing. As far as the mainstream (i.e., non-crackpot) scientific community is concerned, those questions were answered to everyone's satisfaction by the late 1970s.

 

The questions being asked today are along the lines of, "How does anthropogenic emission of aerosols affect the global heat balance through their role as cloud condensation nuclei?" They're far narrower in focus, because they're aimed specifically at improving the performance of predictive climate models.

 

No serious scientist is still wasting their time trying to answer, "Are humans causing climate change?" unless they're on the payroll of an oil company or a political organization with a vested interest in a negative answer.

 

Indeed.

 

Debating about climate change is as silly as it gets and to deny it is to be pro pollution. How can allowing rampant pollution be good for anyone regardless of their political leanings. Does anyone really wish for a lower quality of air?

 

Treat the earth like a toilet and we will be flushed.......

[goose]

And another note about those scientists doing the interpreting: They consider the two questions "Is the climate changing?" and "Are humans causing it?" to be answered conclusively and no longer worth discussing. As far as the mainstream (i.e., non-crackpot) scientific community is concerned, those questions were answered to everyone's satisfaction by the late 1970s.

 

The questions being asked today are along the lines of, "How does anthropogenic emission of aerosols affect the global heat balance through their role as cloud condensation nuclei?" They're far narrower in focus, because they're aimed specifically at improving the performance of predictive climate models.

 

No serious scientist is still wasting their time trying to answer, "Are humans causing climate change?" unless they're on the payroll of an oil company or a political organization with a vested interest in a negative answer.

 

Indeed.

 

Debating about climate change is as silly as it gets and to deny it is to be pro pollution. How can allowing rampant pollution be good for anyone regardless of their political leanings. Does anyone really wish for a lower quality of air?

 

No. But I think there's merit in discussing how best to reduce pollution with consideration to global economics and poverty. Equally I think there's merit in discussing what the actual impact of man's CO2 output is. I'll save the details for SOCN.

[Derek19]

I wasn't going to say this. I haven't liked politics. I don't like discussing, and talking about them. I'm not going in S.O.C.N. to start getting involved with them, and it. Edited July 1, 2020 by Derek19

[Lorraine]

"Quite right, you're bloody well right!"

 

Love,

 

Supertramp

I've been on a Supertramp binge lately. Can't get enough of that jangly stuff!

 

Hahaha! I am putting in "Crime Of The Century" and "Breakfast In America" tonight!

 

The picture and sound quality of this live clip from 1979 is really impressive. Great song, too. The guitar solo at the end is one of my favorites.

 

http://youtu.be/uHM88mZ4k50

One of the great outros.

 

Oh, yes, indeed.

[RUSHHEAD666]

"Quite right, you're bloody well right!"

 

Love,

 

Supertramp

I've been on a Supertramp binge lately. Can't get enough of that jangly stuff!

 

Hahaha! I am putting in "Crime Of The Century" and "Breakfast In America" tonight!

 

The picture and sound quality of this live clip from 1979 is really impressive. Great song, too. The guitar solo at the end is one of my favorites.

 

http://youtu.be/uHM88mZ4k50

 

Incredible! Never seen this clip! The guitar solo is killer. I love that "wah wah" and that tone!

[Fordgalaxy]

And another note about those scientists doing the interpreting: They consider the two questions "Is the climate changing?" and "Are humans causing it?" to be answered conclusively and no longer worth discussing. As far as the mainstream (i.e., non-crackpot) scientific community is concerned, those questions were answered to everyone's satisfaction by the late 1970s.

 

The questions being asked today are along the lines of, "How does anthropogenic emission of aerosols affect the global heat balance through their role as cloud condensation nuclei?" They're far narrower in focus, because they're aimed specifically at improving the performance of predictive climate models.

 

No serious scientist is still wasting their time trying to answer, "Are humans causing climate change?" unless they're on the payroll of an oil company or a political organization with a vested interest in a negative answer.

 

I think the people who refuse to accept the science, "skeptics" as they like to call themselves, would possibly be more likely to believe what they're being told if there wasn't so much of the hyperbole like, "the Earth will be underwater in 12 years", or hypocrites like Al Gore making money off of climate change, or governments imposing carbon offsets or other taxes while claiming they're trying to help the environment. Unfortunately, the media will continue to do what they do and talk about the hyperbole as if it's factual, the Capitalistic system that so many of the skeptics adore is what allows people to make money off the global warming of doom™, and governments will never stop looking for new ways to take more of our income.

 

 

TL;dr, Non-believers aren't going anywhere and governments will keep doing what they do while the Earth gets warmer.