Saint NIck Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 The other day I started a topic of Hold Your Fire; mentioning that I think Tai Shan is a beautiful song. Albeit very unpopular with many, many fans, and from what I've read even Geddy and Alex don't like it. So I guess when the time came for the Hold Your Fire tour and they put a setlist together, this song about 'China' didn't stand a chance. I've been in a big-time HYF groove lately, and as I listen to Lock & Key, it's not only so cool it made the setlist, it also made it onto the laserdisc; but why not the VHS copy, which I actually still have. I may be beating a dead horse, but do you think one day we'll see the whole show on a dvd and/or blu-ray.!? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 It's not on the Replay dvd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Bay Rush Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I don't see why Tai Shan is hated so much... Also, High Water gets nailed too, but I think that's a great song and this is coming from a guy who rates Hemispheres as the # 1 Rush album. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) I give a lot of credit to the band for Tai Shan .. Whether or not is missed the mark is up to the listener, but the fact that they did something unexpected and very different than what they were known for - I like that, and can appreciate the song even more ... A while back I started a thread about missteps, failures and risks in an artist's career - it could be any artist - but I think that there is sincerity in a lot of what could be considered failures -- when an artist goes out on the proverbial limb and does something unexpected or out of their comfort zone, it can be taken as them wanting to show a side of themselves and their own take on whatever they are writing about -- it's not safe, it's not what everyone else is doing, but it is a risk ... I like that - whether or not it is commercially successful or successful according to the fanbase or critics, that really doesn;t matter to me .. I can see how Geddy and Alex don;t like Tai Shan, but they should at least be proud of the fact that they did it and took that risk .. Edited September 19, 2018 by Lucas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil1972 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 It's not on the Replay dvd? No the DVD is the same as the VHS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taurus Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PagePrime MoverMission Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunter Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnoble Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Turn The Page would've made for a better more apt last song, especially since the band was about to leave their keyboard phase after HYF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasbo Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I really love ASOH and I played it to death when it came out but I did feel it was all getting a bit poppy ,hence my dislike for Lock and Key,not to mention the fashions and hairdos.Being a musician I was also intrigued by how all this big sound was made ,myself coming from the old school of thought that backing tapes were no go.As for Tai Shan being included in the live set I don’t think it would have gone down to well.It could have been a Yes song in the vein of Wonderous Stories and would have worked well in their live set but not Rush. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 nostop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I'd rather see the full Exit Stage Left show... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil1972 Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I'd rather see the full Exit Stage Left show... Me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Dad Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PageMissionHigh Water Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it Fixed it for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytserush Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 The other day I started a topic of Hold Your Fire; mentioning that I think Tai Shan is a beautiful song. Albeit very unpopular with many, many fans, and from what I've read even Geddy and Alex don't like it. So I guess when the time came for the Hold Your Fire tour and they put a setlist together, this song about 'China' didn't stand a chance. I've been in a big-time HYF groove lately, and as I listen to Lock & Key, it's not only so cool it made the setlist, it also made it onto the laserdisc; but why not the VHS copy, which I actually still have. I may be beating a dead horse, but do you think one day we'll see the whole show on a dvd and/or blu-ray.!? Isn't Lock and Key on one of the bonus R40 discs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytserush Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I'd rather see the full Exit Stage Left show... With any luck and all we might get a few extra songs, but I highly doubt any of that footage if it can be found is in any watchable shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PagePrime MoverMission Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows. Bones would’ve looked like this: 1. Dreamline2. Bravado3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)4. Where’s My Thing?5. Heresy6. Ghost of a Chance Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugen Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 The reason why Show of Hands is my favorite Rush live release, it's because HYF is the last good Rush album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil1972 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PagePrime MoverMission Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows. Bones would’ve looked like this: 1. Dreamline2. Bravado3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)4. Where’s My Thing?5. Heresy6. Ghost of a Chance Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did. If we use the 8 track LP template for post-PoW albums mine would look like this: Hold Your Fire: Force TenTime Stand StillOpen SecretsLock and Key Turn the PageMissionSecond NaturePrime Mover Presto: Show Don't TellChain LightningThe PassScars SuperconductorWar PaintPrestoAvailable Light Roll the Bones: DreamlineBravadoRoll the Bones (sans the rap)Where's My Thing? The Big WheelFace UpGhost of a ChanceNeurotica Counterparts: AnimateBetween Sun and MoonStick it OutCut to the Chase Cold FireDouble AgentLeave That Thing AloneEveryday Glory Test for Echo: Test for EchoDrivenHalf the WorldVirtuality LimboTime and MotionResistCarve Away the Stone Vapor Trails: One Little VictoryCeiling UnlimitedHow It IsVapor Trail Secret TouchEarthshineNocturneSweet Miracle Snakes and Arrows: Far CryWorkin' Them AngelsThe Way the Wind BlowsSpindrift The Main Monkey BusinessThe Larger BowlHopeWe Hold On Clockwork Angels: I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PagePrime MoverMission Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows. Bones would’ve looked like this: 1. Dreamline2. Bravado3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)4. Where’s My Thing?5. Heresy6. Ghost of a Chance Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did. Clockwork Angels: I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album. Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil1972 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PagePrime MoverMission Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows. Bones would’ve looked like this: 1. Dreamline2. Bravado3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)4. Where’s My Thing?5. Heresy6. Ghost of a Chance Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did. Clockwork Angels: I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album. Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! I can't do it!... I really only dislike Wish Them Well and Halo Effect. Someone else will have to do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PagePrime MoverMission Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows. Bones would’ve looked like this: 1. Dreamline2. Bravado3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)4. Where’s My Thing?5. Heresy6. Ghost of a Chance Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did. Clockwork Angels: I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album. Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! I can't do it!... I really only dislike Wish Them Well and Halo Effect. Someone else will have to do it. I’ll do it then! And those two would be first on my list! After that it’d be BU2B2. I don’t need those less than 2 minutes of filler and storyline. From there I can do away with 7 Cities of Gold and The Wreckers. That’d leave me with 7 satisfying tracks [3 of which are great (the ones I already mentioned)]. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil1972 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PagePrime MoverMission Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows. Bones would’ve looked like this: 1. Dreamline2. Bravado3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)4. Where’s My Thing?5. Heresy6. Ghost of a Chance Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did. Clockwork Angels: I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album. Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! I can't do it!... I really only dislike Wish Them Well and Halo Effect. Someone else will have to do it. I’ll do it then! And those two would be first on my list! After that it’d be BU2B2. I don’t need those less than 2 minutes of filler and storyline. From there I can do away with 7 Cities of Gold and The Wreckers. That’d leave me with 7 satisfying tracks [3 of which are great (the ones I already mentioned)]. I would hate to see 7 Cities go but I think I could live with that version of the album. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PagePrime MoverMission Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows. Bones would’ve looked like this: 1. Dreamline2. Bravado3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)4. Where’s My Thing?5. Heresy6. Ghost of a Chance Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did. Clockwork Angels: I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album. Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! I can't do it!... I really only dislike Wish Them Well and Halo Effect. Someone else will have to do it. I’ll do it then! And those two would be first on my list! After that it’d be BU2B2. I don’t need those less than 2 minutes of filler and storyline. From there I can do away with 7 Cities of Gold and The Wreckers. That’d leave me with 7 satisfying tracks [3 of which are great (the ones I already mentioned)]. I would hate to see 7 Cities go but I think I could live with that version of the album. Do you mean my version of the album here? : 1. Caravan2. BU2B3. Clockwork Angels4. The Anarchist5. Carnies6. Headlong Flight7. The Garden I’d change the order and actually I can do without The Garden but I’m in a good mood and feeling generous today 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketom Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PagePrime MoverMission Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like itYou're right, they could have released the other 2 songs as B sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil1972 Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 I think they could have dropped High Water and Tai Shan, made HYF an 8 song album like PoW and it would have made it a better record. The format change from vinyl to cd made most artists add more material to albums - but often to the detriment of the listening experience. HYF works better imo, as a 40 minute record Here's an improved HYF Side 1Force 10Time Stand StillOpen SecretsSecond Nature Side 2Lock and KeyTurn the PagePrime MoverMission Addition by subtraction - try it you'll like it Using that math method, (for me) Snakes & Arrows would’ve been an EP consisting of the instrumentals & The Way the Wind Blows. Bones would’ve looked like this: 1. Dreamline2. Bravado3. Roll the Bones (edited without rap)4. Where’s My Thing?5. Heresy6. Ghost of a Chance Still, I wouldn’t have had it this way as all of the other songs (which I don’t really like) were necessary in their overall development. Without them we likely wouldn’t have had some of the later gems that we did. Clockwork Angels: I really don't see how this could be reduced to a single LP without compromising the storyline, so it can be a double album. Compromise the storyline then! For as great as Headlong Flight, The Anarchist, and Clockwork Angels are, some of those other songs just have to go! I can't do it!... I really only dislike Wish Them Well and Halo Effect. Someone else will have to do it. I’ll do it then! And those two would be first on my list! After that it’d be BU2B2. I don’t need those less than 2 minutes of filler and storyline. From there I can do away with 7 Cities of Gold and The Wreckers. That’d leave me with 7 satisfying tracks [3 of which are great (the ones I already mentioned)]. I would hate to see 7 Cities go but I think I could live with that version of the album. Do you mean my version of the album here? : 1. Caravan2. BU2B3. Clockwork Angels4. The Anarchist5. Carnies6. Headlong Flight7. The Garden I’d change the order and actually I can do without The Garden but I’m in a good mood and feeling generous today Impressive. That works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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