What would Grace Under Pressure have sounded like if Terry Brown produced it?

[HemiBeers]

Sometimes conflict can be a good thing in artistic creation, and sometimes it can kill it . .

 

You name a great band or great album and in there somewhere is tension and conflict that has been worked into magic .. And if "tension" or "conflict" are not the right words in certain situations, then I believe a good, healthy meeting of the minds and input from outside sources can be very helpful ..

 

IMHO, this is not evident on Grace Under Pressure, and for me, the entire album suffers from what I feel plagues Rush from that point on: where the sound of every song is so similar that it takes away from the feeling of being complete ..

 

And this is where I think Terry Brown could have made Grace a better album ..

 

You look back at the classic Rush: you had songs on 2112 like A Passage To Bangkok and Tears and Something For Nothing and they all sounded completely different - the approach and intent was so varied, and this a huge part of why Rush was so great ...

 

While Grace has some excellent songs, to my ear, you could take a section of any one of those songs, alter the tempo accordingly, and stick it in another song and it would fit - - the album was a wash one sound, one intention ..

 

A great producer will also do a lot more than simply get an album to sound good - if you look at what Bob Ezrin did with KISS and Destroyer, he helped take an underground DIY bar band and added tubular bells, calliope, orchestration and choirs, narration, kids blurting out lines over the music - he literally helped create a monster of an album ...

 

I feel Grace suffered from the opposite

This exactly. I always felt GUP sounded like they locked into a sound and never changed it on any of the songs. The chord progressions on GUP were very uninspired and not the typically creative Rush. One of the reasons I love Rush is the surprises they have in their songs that make it unpredictable and a challenging learning experience for me as a player. They missed that on GUP. While that's more on the material rather than the production, the production has the oversight to make them realize that they are being redundant and not pushing themselves. I can tell that GUP was the point where Alex was being pushed into the background. GUP was sort of meh album to me and not one I revisit often.

 

One example of this is AfterImage. While the lyrics are good, the performance is good, the musical structure of the song is very mundane.

Edited August 28, 2016 by HemiBeers

[ytserush]

Geddy on Signals, July 1984:

 

"We didn't get what we were looking for on Signals," he says. "It was a very schizoid record. By the time we finished, we realized, 'We're a little lost, we're losing perspective on ourselves.'"

 

Here's the article, released in conjunction with the making Of Grace Under Pressure - and IMHO, it is loaded with an interesting combination of justification, denial and contradiction

 

http://www.cygnus-x1...ian-07.1984.php

 

I hear this musical confusion with every play of the album.

 

It's a confused mess.

 

Even Roll The Bones sounds better to me...at least with that album you can tell they knew what they wanted.

 

Signals is just so messy to my ears.

 

Now, The Weapon, Losing It and Countdown are masterpieces. I really love these three songs.

 

Subdivisions is nice. Alalog Kid has a beautiful chorus.

 

It just feels so messed up. Even worse...Alex sounds great but you can hardly tell coz he's lost in the mix.

 

And that album cover...never judge a book by its cover but wow...ugly.

 

It's just so odd as Moving Pictures and Grace Under Pressure are two of my favourite albums by any bad ever and yet...smack bang in the middle is this odd little mess that sounds like a bad evolution of Vital Signs, itself a great song.

 

Apologies for not being more clear, but I meant the comments coming from the band and their camp in that article were an interesting combination of justification, denial and contradiction ( not the albums themselves )

 

Geddy especially seems to be stumbling over how to approach the decision to change/grow/regress whatever you want to call it ..

 

And Neil starts to reveal the inner dick, speaking in condescending tones directed at the fans:

 

Citing it as "period of experimentation, certainly worth it," he took the public's opinion with a grain of salt. "From 2112, we were greeted with all kinds of negative reaction from the back benches," he says. "We found that too with Permanent Waves, when we started stretching out texturally and putting in keyboards for the first time. Every time you change, you're greeted by the reactionaries. Part of that is 'the business,' but also - unfortunately - part of that is your fans. You have to recognize that some are as conservative as any old banker when it comes down to what they'll approve of and what they won't."

 

Someone's ego was bruised.

 

Doesn't make him wrong though.

 

Depends on the point of view. It's his defensive tone that sounds like his ego was hurt.

 

It also doesn't mean you were wrong.

[ytserush]

Sometimes conflict can be a good thing in artistic creation, and sometimes it can kill it . .

 

You name a great band or great album and in there somewhere is tension and conflict that has been worked into magic .. And if "tension" or "conflict" are not the right words in certain situations, then I believe a good, healthy meeting of the minds and input from outside sources can be very helpful ..

 

IMHO, this is not evident on Grace Under Pressure, and for me, the entire album suffers from what I feel plagues Rush from that point on: where the sound of every song is so similar that it takes away from the feeling of being complete ..

 

And this is where I think Terry Brown could have made Grace a better album ..

 

You look back at the classic Rush: you had songs on 2112 like A Passage To Bangkok and Tears and Something For Nothing and they all sounded completely different - the approach and intent was so varied, and this a huge part of why Rush was so great ...

 

While Grace has some excellent songs, to my ear, you could take a section of any one of those songs, alter the tempo accordingly, and stick it in another song and it would fit - - the album was a wash one sound, one intention ..

 

A great producer will also do a lot more than simply get an album to sound good - if you look at what Bob Ezrin did with KISS and Destroyer, he helped take an underground DIY bar band and added tubular bells, calliope, orchestration and choirs, narration, kids blurting out lines over the music - he literally helped create a monster of an album ...

 

I feel Grace suffered from the opposite

This exactly. I always felt GUP sounded like they locked into a sound and never changed it on any of the songs. The chord progressions on GUP were very uninspired and not the typically creative Rush. One of the reasons I love Rush is the surprises they have in their songs that make it unpredictable and a challenging learning experience for me as a player. They missed that on GUP. While that's more on the material rather than the production, the production has the oversight to make them realize that they are being redundant and not pushing themselves. I can tell that GUP was the point where Alex was being pushed into the background. GUP was sort of meh album to me and not one I revisit often.

 

One example of this is AfterImage. While the lyrics are good, the performance is good, the musical structure of the song is very mundane.

 

I kind of get that, but for me that's not even close to a deal breaker for me not to love the album.

 

I still enjoy it musically and also lyrically, artistically and thematically too.

[TexMike]

GUP is the best Rush album NOT produced by TB. I think it's fine as is.

 

The only album that I think would be substantially improved by a TB re-do is CA (and I wish it would happen).

[EagleMoon]

Geddy on Signals, July 1984:

 

"We didn't get what we were looking for on Signals," he says. "It was a very schizoid record. By the time we finished, we realized, 'We're a little lost, we're losing perspective on ourselves.'"

 

Here's the article, released in conjunction with the making Of Grace Under Pressure - and IMHO, it is loaded with an interesting combination of justification, denial and contradiction

 

http://www.cygnus-x1...ian-07.1984.php

 

I hear this musical confusion with every play of the album.

 

It's a confused mess.

 

Even Roll The Bones sounds better to me...at least with that album you can tell they knew what they wanted.

 

Signals is just so messy to my ears.

 

Now, The Weapon, Losing It and Countdown are masterpieces. I really love these three songs.

 

Subdivisions is nice. Alalog Kid has a beautiful chorus.

 

It just feels so messed up. Even worse...Alex sounds great but you can hardly tell coz he's lost in the mix.

 

And that album cover...never judge a book by its cover but wow...ugly.

 

It's just so odd as Moving Pictures and Grace Under Pressure are two of my favourite albums by any bad ever and yet...smack bang in the middle is this odd little mess that sounds like a bad evolution of Vital Signs, itself a great song.

 

Apologies for not being more clear, but I meant the comments coming from the band and their camp in that article were an interesting combination of justification, denial and contradiction ( not the albums themselves )

 

Geddy especially seems to be stumbling over how to approach the decision to change/grow/regress whatever you want to call it ..

 

And Neil starts to reveal the inner dick, speaking in condescending tones directed at the fans:

 

Citing it as "period of experimentation, certainly worth it," he took the public's opinion with a grain of salt. "From 2112, we were greeted with all kinds of negative reaction from the back benches," he says. "We found that too with Permanent Waves, when we started stretching out texturally and putting in keyboards for the first time. Every time you change, you're greeted by the reactionaries. Part of that is 'the business,' but also - unfortunately - part of that is your fans. You have to recognize that some are as conservative as any old banker when it comes down to what they'll approve of and what they won't."

 

Someone's ego was bruised.

 

Doesn't make him wrong though.

 

Depends on the point of view. It's his defensive tone that sounds like his ego was hurt.

 

It also doesn't mean you were wrong.

 

Okay whatever. If you're not going to add to the conversation in an intelligent way then never mind.

[78jazz]

It's pretty cool for Geddy to say he was jamming to Three of a Perfect Pair!

[Anthemic]

i don't think the production is the problem with gup, i think the songs just aren't very strong.

 

i love the choruses to distant early warning but those verses especially the 'red alert red alert' crap really ruin the song for me.

[bluefox4000]

i don't think the production is the problem with gup, i think the songs just aren't very strong.

 

i love the choruses to distant early warning but those verses especially the 'red alert red alert' crap really ruin the song for me.

 

completly agree. i think Grace has some of the weakest and/or stupidest lyrics Neil ever wrote in the 80's.

 

then the 90's came, lol

 

Mick

Edited August 29, 2016 by bluefox4000

[Segue Myles]

i don't think the production is the problem with gup, i think the songs just aren't very strong.

 

i love the choruses to distant early warning but those verses especially the 'red alert red alert' crap really ruin the song for me.

 

completly agree. i think Grace has some of the weakest and/or stupidest lyrics Neil ever wrote in the 80's.

 

then the 90's came, lol

 

Mick

 

Still a better love story than Twilight.

[EagleMoon]

i don't think the production is the problem with gup, i think the songs just aren't very strong.

 

i love the choruses to distant early warning but those verses especially the 'red alert red alert' crap really ruin the song for me.

 

completly agree. i think Grace has some of the weakest and/or stupidest lyrics Neil ever wrote in the 80's.

 

then the 90's came, lol

 

Mick

 

Still a better love story than Twilight.

 

[Wil1972]

I think the closest we can come to knowing what a Terry Brown GuP album would sound like would be the tour video for GuP. Did Broon not mix the sound for that release? I have always waffled on that album, and feel the songs lack any life at all on the album, but the ones I have heard live come across much better, especially the ones on that concert video. Edited August 29, 2016 by Wil1972

[toymaker]

I think the closest we can come to knowing what a Terry Brown GuP album would sound like would be the tour video for GuP. Did Broon not mix the sound for that release? I have always waffled on that album, and feel the songs lack any life at all on the album, but the ones I have heard live come across much better, especially the ones on that concert video.

 

That concert video definitely has some zip and spark and verve and sizzle.

[ReRushed]

I listened to Grace Under Pressure on my googlephonic stereo with a moon rock needle. It sounds like shit.

[ytserush]

Geddy on Signals, July 1984:

 

"We didn't get what we were looking for on Signals," he says. "It was a very schizoid record. By the time we finished, we realized, 'We're a little lost, we're losing perspective on ourselves.'"

 

Here's the article, released in conjunction with the making Of Grace Under Pressure - and IMHO, it is loaded with an interesting combination of justification, denial and contradiction

 

http://www.cygnus-x1...ian-07.1984.php

 

I hear this musical confusion with every play of the album.

 

It's a confused mess.

 

Even Roll The Bones sounds better to me...at least with that album you can tell they knew what they wanted.

 

Signals is just so messy to my ears.

 

Now, The Weapon, Losing It and Countdown are masterpieces. I really love these three songs.

 

Subdivisions is nice. Alalog Kid has a beautiful chorus.

 

It just feels so messed up. Even worse...Alex sounds great but you can hardly tell coz he's lost in the mix.

 

And that album cover...never judge a book by its cover but wow...ugly.

 

It's just so odd as Moving Pictures and Grace Under Pressure are two of my favourite albums by any bad ever and yet...smack bang in the middle is this odd little mess that sounds like a bad evolution of Vital Signs, itself a great song.

 

Apologies for not being more clear, but I meant the comments coming from the band and their camp in that article were an interesting combination of justification, denial and contradiction ( not the albums themselves )

 

Geddy especially seems to be stumbling over how to approach the decision to change/grow/regress whatever you want to call it ..

 

And Neil starts to reveal the inner dick, speaking in condescending tones directed at the fans:

 

Citing it as "period of experimentation, certainly worth it," he took the public's opinion with a grain of salt. "From 2112, we were greeted with all kinds of negative reaction from the back benches," he says. "We found that too with Permanent Waves, when we started stretching out texturally and putting in keyboards for the first time. Every time you change, you're greeted by the reactionaries. Part of that is 'the business,' but also - unfortunately - part of that is your fans. You have to recognize that some are as conservative as any old banker when it comes down to what they'll approve of and what they won't."

 

Someone's ego was bruised.

 

Doesn't make him wrong though.

 

Depends on the point of view. It's his defensive tone that sounds like his ego was hurt.

 

It also doesn't mean you were wrong.

 

Okay whatever. If you're not going to add to the conversation in an intelligent way then never mind.

 

Um....Okey Dokey.

[ytserush]

i don't think the production is the problem with gup, i think the songs just aren't very strong.

 

i love the choruses to distant early warning but those verses especially the 'red alert red alert' crap really ruin the song for me.

 

completly agree. i think Grace has some of the weakest and/or stupidest lyrics Neil ever wrote in the 80's.

 

then the 90's came, lol

 

Mick

 

I can see how "I see red...Hurts my head" would sound pretty stupid without the context of what Neil was trying to do.

 

"It's a style of writing I've sort of been working towards over the last couple of albums that's uh, kind of inspired by T.S. Eliot in an indirect way, but that style of pouring so much into it, so many images, and almost flooding the reader or the listener with ideas and images so that you don't seem to grasp anything out of it. but in the end you're left with something, and you're left with a feeling, or uh, just an impression of it."

--- Neil - Off The Record 1984.

 

 

 

This was clearly not your older brother's Rush.

[ReRushed]

I like "Red Lenses". Good stuff.

[ytserush]

I like "Red Lenses". Good stuff.

 

I think it's great, but I can understand why it wouldn't be liked.

[lifeson90]

lol GUP woulda been sh*t with TB. the guy didnt even want Digital Man recorded like it was. the band was way ahead of Broon by that time he had to go

[MusicHead]

p/g and Signals still rule the roost for me, with Moving Pictures, Power Windows, and Permanent Waves factoring in mightily. Rush started to lose me a bit around the Presto era. Still good stuff IMO, but not earthshaking like the albums I first mentioned.

[jnoble]

I think the closest we can come to knowing what a Terry Brown GuP album would sound like would be the tour video for GuP. Did Broon not mix the sound for that release? I have always waffled on that album, and feel the songs lack any life at all on the album, but the ones I have heard live come across much better, especially the ones on that concert video.

 

For one thing, If Geddy had recorded using the warm fat Rickenbacker instead of the thinner dinky-er Steinberger I think the end results would have been more favorable.

 

Also, I always thought the vocals on GUP were too dry and upfront. Maybe not drenched in as much '80s reverb as Power Windows and HYF would have later on to make it sound like he was singing in a garbage can but maybe a little more than it had.

Edited September 6, 2016 by jnoble

[New World Kid]

It seemed to me that Terry Brown was mixing more for warmth than punch with Signals.

 

Signals had this very homogenized sound. A lot of sounds mixing into each other. Everything kind of had this muffled quality to it. The best way I can describe it is that it's like I was listening to it outside on a really hot, humid day. When all the sounds sort of overlap into a single sound.

 

Grace Under Pressure, on the other hand, had punch. The bass drum would actually hit you. The synths were clear and sort of riding above it all. The bass guitar, when it was there, had very clear enunciation of each note. The only complaint would be that the guitar and keys, when occupying the same frequency, kind of blended too much. But everything else on P/G was CRISP.

 

I much much prefer Grace Under Pressure's sound to Signals. Not a statement on the song writing, just the mastering approach.

 

P/G was dynamic where Signals was not.