Earthshine_sf Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 This is something I wondered about for a long time: In many live songs, Alex or Geddy trigger a synth sequencer by pressing (and holding, I believe) a specific Taurus pedal. There are many examples, but check out these two where Alex is triggering the sequence: Jacob's Ladder @ 2:47 (https://youtu.be/dzcA8_EkYQ0?t=167), Spirit of Radio chorus @ 2:28 (https://youtu.be/1jxfDuiDtzU?t=148). In the Spirit chorus , Geddy is also playing a synth line manually with his feet :) These sequences are always completely locked in to the timing and tempo of the live song. The Spirit chorus in particular would be train wreck if it wasn't dead-on synched. How is this done? I know Neil is a machine, but I doubt he starts and maintains every live song at the exact same tempo that was programmed into the sequencer! Could the sequencer be somehow "listening" to, say, the bass drum, and synching to that? I doubt Neil is listening to a click track to any songs other than Red Sector A...it wouldn't make sense for him to suddenly "fix" the tempo of a song when a sequence kicks in.... Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pound of Obscure Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Its all ball bearings now days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMCXII Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (and holding, I believe) Why would you make this assumption? My daughter has this goofy little app on her phone that makes different sounds, farting sounds etc. She presses a button once and the sound plays out.. I doubt she possesses technology that Rush can't get their hands on.. Neil hits a pad and the sound plays out. He hits a lot of things and times them all pretty good like any decent drummer. I don't see the mystery here unless I'm missing something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthshine_sf Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 I can't find a good video clip at the moment, but Geddy and Alex appear to hold down on the Taurus pedals until the sequence is finished...I assume this is done so that they can "let go" if things go south, and immediately stop the sequence. (You are right about Neil - he doesn't have to hold anything to keep a sample playing, but his setup seems different than Alex and Geddy). The mystery to me is how a long sequence stays in sync with the band. For example, if they are playing Spirit of Radio a bit fast one night, the "invisible airways" synth sequence would be completely out of sync with the band after a couple of measures. There must be something that they do to keep things synched up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I believe the answer has to be....click track. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 It's been a lot of years since I read this, but either Alex or Geddy said Neil has an excellent sense of tempo and can usually get the band close enough to the sampled tempo that most folks can't tell if it ain't spot on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthshine_sf Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 JARG, I think you are right. I just found this interview with Jack Secret. It sounds like Neil is so good that he starts every song at just about the exact correct tempo, and is able to tweak things in real time if necessary, once a sample or sequence starts. Amazing.... http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19970700eq.htm In past years, we used sequencers for the sequenced parts in songs like "New World Man" or "Spirit of Radio". When we started using the Roland S770 samplers, we discovered that we could record and loop sequences and trigger them in real time. Or - if it was a sequence that required a changing passage - there was enough memory in the S770 to record the entire passage. All of the sequences then became samples. Right now there are no sequences being played, just real-time triggering done in two ways: either as one-shot (you hit a key once and the sample plays through its length), or you have to hold down a key (or keys) in order to play the sample. Using the second MIDI system (which is basically a sample playback system), the band uses samples to augment their performances. These samples are triggered by the band members in real time. It's not like there is a sequencer going with a click, events happen and the band has to follow them. Take, for example, a synth part that needs to come in at the chorus of a song: the band is responsible for making that sample happen at the correct time. It's a matter of learning the part like any other musical part in a song - something that has to be done with either the hands or feet.While you might think this sounds pretty easy, remember that if the sample is played late or early, it sounds (for its duration) out of time with the band. Some of these samples last for entire sections of a song, and if they come in at the wrong time, it could be a train wreck. So it really is critical for the band to trigger those samples exactly when they're supposed to start. If a part is played half a beat late or early, you will hear it. If it is right on, then it will musically fit into what the band is doing. All of the samples that we use are taken from parts the band has played on the multitrack studio masters. The samples are in time relative to the recording so it's Neil's job to make sure that the songs are played at the correct tempo - and he does an amazing job at that using only his musical abilities. When playing live, they are not going to be playing a song faster or slower than what you heard on the album. Songs have to he played pretty much exact to the tempo of the record because the samples themselves are not time-expanded or time-compressed to meet any criteria. If there is any shifting that needs to be done, having done it for so long, they can pretty well handle it (they do that very well, and Neil is amazing when it comes to locking in). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Earthshine, thanks for posting that article. It was very interesting. Very talented men in so many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsonmistymemory Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 They use a tachyon beam pluse emitting diode, triggered by a neutrino wand that radiates more heat than light. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 They use a tachyon beam pluse emitting diode, triggered by a neutrino wand that radiates more heat than light.Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Analog Cub Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 It's been a lot of years since I read this, but either Alex or Geddy said Neil has an excellent sense of tempo and can usually get the band close enough to the sampled tempo that most folks can't tell if it ain't spot on. Who'dathunkit, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Scroll to approx. 1:05:48 .... good one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5L3jy9vLPI Edited January 12, 2016 by Lucas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Here's a nice shot of Alex triggering a quick sample in Force 10 http://youtu.be/TBKCg25RBpQ?t=3m34s Edited January 12, 2016 by JARG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Dad Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 If he's doing that wtf is Geddy doing? #showboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 It's interesting especially when you think about songs that are not started by Neil like earthshine, fly by night, freewill, etc. I wonder how often he has to purposefully play slower than th song starts to get things back in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 It's interesting especially when you think about songs that are not started by Neil like earthshine, fly by night, freewill, etc. I wonder how often he has to purposefully play slower than th song starts to get things back in line. He probably doesn't even worry about it for songs that don't use samples/sequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 If he's doing that wtf is Geddy doing? #showboathttp://i.ytimg.com/vi/sE2jy23iG2M/0.jpg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasbo Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I will have a shot at this.I have Boss looper, a device that records from my guitar or just about anything else either preset earlier or on the fly.It's a kind of a sampling unit.It has a click track with a pulsating light built in that helps you keep time.Now in all of their fangdangled gadgetry that they have there might be something similar to this.Failing this they are good time keepers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Here's a nice shot of Alex triggering a quick sample in Force 10 http://youtu.be/TBKCg25RBpQ?t=3m34s How do you embed that video so that it plays at the exact point you want it to? Do you add that little bit of code (t=3m34s) at the end? And can you only do that with links? Edited January 12, 2016 by toymaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Its all ball bearings now days. :clap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Here's a nice shot of Alex triggering a quick sample in Force 10 http://youtu.be/TBKCg25RBpQ?t=3m34sIf you can tap your foot to a rhythm, you can trigger a sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Here's a nice shot of Alex triggering a quick sample in Force 10 http://youtu.be/TBKCg25RBpQ?t=3m34s How do you embed that video so that it plays at the exact point you want it to? Do you add that little bit of code (t=3m34s) at the end? And can you only do that with links? As far as I know you can only do it with youtube vids. So on youtube, when you're watching a video, is a link called Share, and when you click it, it gives you the link code. Just below the link code text field is a checkbox called Start At. When you check that checkbox, the time index is added to the link code, then it's just a matter of copying that code and pasting it here (you need to remember to remove the "s" from https//). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Here's a nice shot of Alex triggering a quick sample in Force 10 http://youtu.be/TBKCg25RBpQ?t=3m34s How do you embed that video so that it plays at the exact point you want it to? Do you add that little bit of code (t=3m34s) at the end? And can you only do that with links? As far as I know you can only do it with youtube vids. So on youtube, when you're watching a video, is a link called Share, and when you click it, it gives you the link code. Just below the link code text field is a checkbox called Start At. When you check that checkbox, the time index is added to the link code, then it's just a matter of copying that code and pasting it here (you need to remember to remove the "s" from https//).Right click on a YouTube video and one of the options is "copy url at current time". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Bay Rush Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I don't know HOW they keep track of all this sequencer stuff live... they must have to REALLY pay attention. But - what really got me into Rush in the 70s, was how they made that big FAT sound all live - without any sequencers. Especially, Geddy... what he did LIVE was astonishing and only at the age of 25. Crazy talent. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhawk2112 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 They use a tachyon beam pluse emitting diode, triggered by a neutrino wand that radiates more heat than light. I was told there would be no math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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