Amazing new crop circle

[HomesickAlien]

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Aug 28 2012, 06:10 PM)

What I don't get? Science Person: "Prove this supernatural thing!" Believer "See - I proved it!" Science Person "See it was science after all!" So, my point is that for a science person there can NEVER be supernatural anything because once it's proven, it falls under their realm of "Science". *YAWN*

Once a phenomenon can be explained using scientific methodology, it's no longer a mystery, and people don't need to prattle on about supernatural causes.

 

Of course, this rarely stops people from clinging to their old beliefs.

 

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Aug 28 2012, 06:10 PM)

So, my point is that for a science person there can NEVER be supernatural anything because once it's proven, it falls under their realm of "Science". *YAWN*

Umm....it's not just about "science people".

 

If some object or event is thought to be of "supernatural" origin, and then further investigation reveals it to be caused by natural processes, then what's so bad about that? The mystery has been solved! Everyone can see it for what it really is....and not what some people invented in their minds.

 

Believing in magic or the "supernatural" is not logical. Many people do believe in it, but then, not everyone is perfectly logical. We're not Vulcans. We're flawed, emotional, illogical human beings. People believe what they want to believe, even though they have no factual evidence to support those beliefs. They can stubbornly preach those beliefs all day long, but ultimately, they have nothing to support them. It's just nonsensical rhetoric.....

[treeduck]

I think rushgoober is an alien...

 

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Aug 29 2012, 03:32 AM)

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Aug 28 2012, 06:10 PM) So, my point is that for a science person there can NEVER be supernatural anything because once it's proven, it falls under their realm of "Science". *YAWN* Umm....it's not just about "science people".   If some object or event is thought to be of "supernatural" origin, and then further investigation reveals it to be caused by natural processes, then what's so bad about that? The mystery has been solved! Everyone can see it for what it really is....and not what some people invented in their minds. Often it's FAR from that simple. Take crop circles, or UFO's. Many crop circles and UFO sightings have been proven to be faked, but many have not. No mystery is solved, at least not the greater mystery. The fact that some are conclusively faked gives the disbelievers the ability to make a huge jump and assume they're all faked. The fact that some are still a mystery gives the believers the ability to continue believing some are real. And then if you factor in the belief that someone or some group is involved in a cover-up to keep the public unaware of the truth, then it really gets dicey. Of course then you get called a conspiracy nut or whatever for believing in any kind of conspiracy, but I think most people would agree that governments and institutions of power have been known to cover things up from time to time, to say the least. In the end, we're left with no mystery truly being solved, at least not in anything approaching something conclusive that everyone will agree on.   QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Aug 29 2012, 03:32 AM) Believing in magic or the "supernatural" is not logical.  Many people do believe in it, but then, not everyone is perfectly logical.  We're not Vulcans.  We're flawed, emotional, illogical human beings.  People believe what they want to believe, even though they have no factual evidence to support those beliefs.  They can stubbornly preach those beliefs all day long, but ultimately, they have nothing to support them.  It's just nonsensical rhetoric.....    It's illogical to you, but to someone who does believe in the supernatural it's perfectly logical. There are many things that would have seemed supernatural and magic in the past - that the earth was round, that the earth revolved around the sun, that people could fly through the air in man-made machines, etc. It only seemed magical or supernatural or fantasy because it had yet to be done or proven to be true, and in fact it wasn't really supernatural at all. Now it's just science, or technology.   And then there's the HUGE issue of "personal experience" that you just can't overcome or logic out of existence.   What if I tell you, as an example, that I have 10 fingers and I insist that it's true. You wouldn't know for sure because you haven't met me or seen a picture of my hands, but chances are you'd believe me because why would I have any reason to lie about something like that.   Now what if I told you that I've seen a UFO or something that I knew without a shadow of a doubt was supernatural, meaning not of the natural world or something that could be explained by natural law. Would you still believe me, or would you then assume I was crazy or hallucinating or dreaming when I thought I was awake, or mistaken, or that I was just plain lying?   Regardless, it wouldn't matter to me. I would know it was true just as well as I would know I have ten fingers because I've seen it in a way that is as conclusive to me in my experience as my fingers are real. I can't prove it to you like I can my fingers, but it's still absolutely real to me. I don't believe in what I experience because I'm a "flawed, emotional, illogical human being, " or believe it because I want to believe it. I believe in what I saw and felt.   What if you told me that you had climbed Mt. Everest and I didn't believe you. Let's say you lost all the photos in a fire and everyone you traveled with was dead. You would have nothing to support you in terms of scientific verifiable evidence, but you know you were there. It wouldn't matter to you at all what I would say, right? You would know what you experienced was real because you were there. Similarly, I know my own experience. It's not about "stubbornly preaching my beliefs all day long," it's about me and the truth of MY experience. The fact that you don't believe what I do doesn't change my reality because it's my personal experience. And what better to go on in terms of beliefs than personal experience?   As you said, I have no "factual evidence to support" the existence of the supernatural (which honestly to me just seems "natural"), but it's certainly not "nonsensical rhetoric" to me because I know what I've experienced just as well as you know what you've experienced, as well as anyone can know that.   Furthermore, I would suggest that even if I did produce some kind of evidence, such as a video, you would assume it was faked or that it was something else that was more logical to you. If your philosophy or belief structure isn't wide enough encompass the possibility of such a thing existing, you'll find some way to discount it no matter what I show you or who I am if you can't believe it can be so, unless it was you personally that saw it. If I was someone close to you that you absolutely trusted, you might go as far as saying, "I believe that you believe," which still is short of believing.   I've even heard skeptics go as far as saying that if they saw something they can't explain, they'd assume that THEY were dreaming or hallucinating or were going crazy or maybe had some kind of physiological event that caused them to think they saw something they didn't, or that somehow they were just mistaken because surely that thing they saw couldn't exist. Breaking through the barrier of your current belief structure to allow something else to enter in to the point where your belief structure expands is no small feat. If you're very closed to certain things existing, you've created a powerful wall that can be almost impossible to break through.   Now, I'm not saying I've seen an alien ship create a crop circle, so I won't assume that's what is causing them, but based on my experience with the existence of the supernatural, or what a disbeliever would call the supernatural, it's a much more plausible explanation to me than the insane amount of work it would take humans to construct all the thousands of crop circles in existence over the last few decades, and for what purpose, as an elaborate conspiratorial joke upon humanity? And honestly, I don't care that much about crop circles. It's not like I think about them in my day to day life, it's more the principle that there are supernatural things going on in the world that skeptical people want to explain away wholesale.   And there is plenty of evidence to suggest that flattened stalks were changed at the cellular level, that compasses and machinery don't work properly in crop circles, etc. You'll of course assume all those statements and research and even videos were falsified because it can't exist and/or makes no logical sense to you, but that's because you won't expand even 1 degree into being open to something supernatural existing because then the whole structure of your belief system could be in danger and that would be unacceptable. Besides, we're just all crazy anyway, so why on earth would you consider such nonsense, right?   You will of course disagree, but the word "logical," to me, is highly subjective.

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 29 2012, 02:21 PM)

Besides, we're just all crazy anyway, so why on earth would you consider such nonsense, right?

Right! That's pretty much it!

 

Nonsense, by the very definition of the word, begs to be ignored.

 

 

nonsense (noun)

1 a: words or language having no meaning or conveying no intelligible ideas.

1 b: language, conduct, or an idea that is absurd or contrary to good sense; an instance of absurd action

 

2 a: things of no importance or value.

2 b: affected or impudent conduct. "He took no nonsense from subordinates."

[rushgoober]

Edited August 29, 2012 by rushgoober

[RushCanuck]

Rushgoober... I enjoyed all your replies to this thread. I am in agreement with your views on this issue... There are many crop circle hoaxes, but not all crop circles are man made. That is my opinion. Thanks for your efforts.

[rushgoober]

[thesweetscience]

[default236]

QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Aug 27 2012, 06:38 PM)

You have to ask yourself which is more likely: 1. Large groups of humans designing and mapping out these crop circles, and then going out and executing them at night, maybe taking several hours. 2. Alien beings travelling incomprehensible distances to Earth (or coming through wormholes, stargates, etc.), only to create these enigmatic crop circles rather than contacting humans directly. http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/848/ancient-aliens.jpg

Beat me too it!

[ReRushed]

What am I missing? Using, or trying to use, logic and rational thinking is open-minded. If evidence previously unavailable pops up, well, guess what, I change my mind!

I'm not basing any opinion on "possibilities" and pseudo-science.

 

500 years ago it was Satan or spirits, today it's aliens or aura.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 29 2012, 04:34 PM)

What am I missing? Using, or trying to use, logic and rational thinking is open-minded. If evidence previously unavailable pops up, well, guess what, I change my mind! I'm not basing any opinion on "possibilities" and pseudo-science. 500 years ago it was Satan or spirits, today it's aliens or aura.

Is anybody there?

 

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 29 2012, 02:34 PM)

What am I missing? Using, or trying to use, logic and rational thinking is open-minded. If evidence previously unavailable pops up, well, guess what, I change my mind! I'm not basing any opinion on "possibilities" and pseudo-science. 500 years ago it was Satan or spirits, today it's aliens or aura.

[Mr. Not]

[Mr. Not]

http://i.imgur.com/1oRWd.png

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Aug 28 2012, 04:10 PM)

What I don't get? Science Person: "Prove this supernatural thing!" Believer "See - I proved it!" Science Person "See it was science after all!" So, my point is that for a science person there can NEVER be supernatural anything because once it's proven, it falls under their realm of "Science". *YAWN*

Science persons are typically called scientists.

[Stormtron]

http://i.imgur.com/CflqE.jpg

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Aug 29 2012, 05:35 PM)

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 29 2012, 04:34 PM) What am I missing? Using, or trying to use, logic and rational thinking is open-minded. If evidence previously unavailable pops up, well, guess what, I change my mind! I'm not basing any opinion on "possibilities" and pseudo-science. 500 years ago it was Satan or spirits, today it's aliens or aura. Is anybody there?   Batman

[My_Shrimp_Cot]

QUOTE (Mr. IsNot @ Aug 29 2012, 04:47 PM)

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Aug 28 2012, 04:10 PM) What I don't get? Science Person: "Prove this supernatural thing!" Believer "See - I proved it!" Science Person "See it was science after all!" So, my point is that for a science person there can NEVER be supernatural anything because once it's proven, it falls under their realm of "Science". *YAWN* Science persons are typically called scientists.   A "Science person" is someone who believes in science.   I go to church, it doesn't make me a reverend or a priest.

[snowdogged]

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Aug 29 2012, 06:21 PM)

QUOTE (Mr. IsNot @ Aug 29 2012, 04:47 PM) QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Aug 28 2012, 04:10 PM) What I don't get? Science Person: "Prove this supernatural thing!" Believer "See - I proved it!" Science Person "See it was science after all!" So, my point is that for a science person there can NEVER be supernatural anything because once it's proven, it falls under their realm of "Science". *YAWN* Science persons are typically called scientists.   A "Science person" is someone who believes in science.   I go to church, it doesn't make me a reverend or a priest. Are you saying that you do not believe in science?

[Ancient Ways]

QUOTE (presto123 @ Aug 28 2012, 12:51 AM)

Nobody has yet to respond how the plants are changed at a cellular level in many crop circles and how soil samples are different inside the circle. There is no way to hoax that. Plus there is such a preciseness and scale to many of these that I find hoaxing hard to believe. Not saying it is other wordly visitors either but there is an eeriness to these. http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2002...rd-science.html

read it. mumbo jumbo. the plants "decided to change at the cellular level" is ridiculous.

 

Edit: it doesn't have to be a hoax. Some are pranks and some are art installations, etc...

Edited August 29, 2012 by Ancient Ways

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Aug 29 2012, 04:42 PM)

QUOTE (presto123 @ Aug 28 2012, 12:51 AM) Nobody has yet to respond how the plants are changed at a cellular level in many crop circles and how soil samples are different inside the circle. There is no way to hoax that. Plus there is such a preciseness and scale to many of these that I find hoaxing hard to believe. Not saying it is other wordly visitors either but there is an eeriness to these. http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2002...rd-science.html read it. mumbo jumbo. the plants "decided to change at the cellular level" is ridiculous.   Edit: it doesn't have to be a hoax. Some are pranks and some are art installations, etc... As I've stated many times, there is no winning with people who don't want to believe in anything supernatural or unexplainable. They cry prove it, and even when you try to with people who've studied the phenomena scientifically, if it doesn't fit in with their beliefs, it's pseudo-science or mumbo jumbo.

[Ancient Ways]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 29 2012, 07:46 PM)

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Aug 29 2012, 04:42 PM) QUOTE (presto123 @ Aug 28 2012, 12:51 AM) Nobody has yet to respond how the plants are changed at a cellular level in many crop circles and how soil samples are different inside the circle. There is no way to hoax that. Plus there is such a preciseness and scale to many of these that I find hoaxing hard to believe. Not saying it is other wordly visitors either but there is an eeriness to these. http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2002...rd-science.html read it. mumbo jumbo. the plants "decided to change at the cellular level" is ridiculous.   Edit: it doesn't have to be a hoax. Some are pranks and some are art installations, etc... As I've stated many times, there is no winning with people who don't want to believe in anything supernatural or unexplainable. They cry prove it, and even when you try to with people who've studied the phenomena scientifically, if it doesn't fit in with their beliefs, it's pseudo-science or mumbo jumbo. the guy is an electrical engineer.   What amazes me about the people that "need" it to be supernatural is the idea that they can't see how much cooler it is that regular people like us came up with these ideas and were able to execute them on such a large scale. I find this to be fascinating. I, for one, am not ruling out any option just pointing out my opinion of the most likely cause. I don;t understand the defensiveness of some on this subject.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 29 2012, 04:46 PM)

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Aug 29 2012, 04:42 PM) QUOTE (presto123 @ Aug 28 2012, 12:51 AM) Nobody has yet to respond how the plants are changed at a cellular level in many crop circles and how soil samples are different inside the circle. There is no way to hoax that. Plus there is such a preciseness and scale to many of these that I find hoaxing hard to believe. Not saying it is other wordly visitors either but there is an eeriness to these. http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2002...rd-science.html read it. mumbo jumbo. the plants "decided to change at the cellular level" is ridiculous.   Edit: it doesn't have to be a hoax. Some are pranks and some are art installations, etc... As I've stated many times, there is no winning with people who don't want to believe in anything supernatural or unexplainable. They cry prove it, and even when you try to with people who've studied the phenomena scientifically, if it doesn't fit in with their beliefs, it's pseudo-science or mumbo jumbo. Which is why I've been wondering why you're repeating yourself relentlessly.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Aug 29 2012, 04:51 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 29 2012, 07:46 PM) QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Aug 29 2012, 04:42 PM) QUOTE (presto123 @ Aug 28 2012, 12:51 AM) Nobody has yet to respond how the plants are changed at a cellular level in many crop circles and how soil samples are different inside the circle. There is no way to hoax that. Plus there is such a preciseness and scale to many of these that I find hoaxing hard to believe. Not saying it is other wordly visitors either but there is an eeriness to these. http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2002...rd-science.html read it. mumbo jumbo. the plants "decided to change at the cellular level" is ridiculous.   Edit: it doesn't have to be a hoax. Some are pranks and some are art installations, etc... As I've stated many times, there is no winning with people who don't want to believe in anything supernatural or unexplainable. They cry prove it, and even when you try to with people who've studied the phenomena scientifically, if it doesn't fit in with their beliefs, it's pseudo-science or mumbo jumbo. the guy is an electrical engineer.   What amazes me about the people that "need" it to be supernatural is the idea that they can't see how much cooler it is that regular people like us came up with these ideas and were able to execute them on such a large scale. I find this to be fascinating. I, for one, am not ruling out any option just pointing out my opinion of the most likely cause. I don;t understand the defensiveness of some on this subject.