Amazing new crop circle

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 03:31 PM)

And that's always the impasse. We can't prove it's supernatural any more than we can prove it's natural. It all then boils down to what makes sense to you. If you're open to supernatural anything, it's really a FAR more logical option than the enormity of time and work it would take for a team of people to do these under virtually impossible circumstances.

There is no impasse at all. The "natural causes" have been proven. People have come forward and even shown how they've made the crop circles. All one needs to do is go investigate the crop circles, interview the community of people who live nearby and anyone else who may have had the opportunity and means to make them. That is how you prove something naturally.

 

It is mere opinion to claim that making such a complex crop circle would have to occur under "virtually impossible circumstances". Making these complex circles may be virtually impossible for people like you and me, but probably not for more ingenious people (who also have lots of free time on their hands ).

 

These are facts: People have made crop circles. People are still making crop circles. Many people are very good at math, geometry, art, engineering. It's perfectly logical, then, to conclude that the recent crop circles were most probably made by human beings.

 

Suggesting that a supernatural force did it, without providing any factual evidence, is simply an intellectual punt. It is illogic at a very basic level. Claiming that a supernatural force made the circles, and then saying, "You can't prove me wrong," is another punt. YOU make a claim, YOU have to back it up with facts.

[HomesickAlien]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 03:35 PM)

QUOTE (Mr. IsNot @ Aug 27 2012, 01:17 PM) It's legitimately concerning that people like goober reject research because of it being challenging an uninteresting (in their opinion) and instead just turn to an illogical and unrealistic assumption instead. "so open minded that the brain falls out" certainly applies here. If your research legitimately explained easily and rationally the creation of each crop circle, that's one thing, but it simply can't. You consider what I believe to be outlandish, and vice-versa. Again an impasse. I'm way too open minded, you're way too closed minded, no one budges an inch, the end. Just because some phenomena can't be scientifically explained at this point doesn't mean they won't at some future date. Rather than fill the gaps in our knowledge with supernatural thinking, perhaps it would be more advantageous to seek rational explanations for things we don't understand.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Aug 27 2012, 02:07 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 03:35 PM) QUOTE (Mr. IsNot @ Aug 27 2012, 01:17 PM) It's legitimately concerning that people like goober reject research because of it being challenging an uninteresting (in their opinion) and instead just turn to an illogical and unrealistic assumption instead. "so open minded that the brain falls out" certainly applies here. If your research legitimately explained easily and rationally the creation of each crop circle, that's one thing, but it simply can't. You consider what I believe to be outlandish, and vice-versa. Again an impasse. I'm way too open minded, you're way too closed minded, no one budges an inch, the end. Just because some phenomena can't be scientifically explained at this point doesn't mean they won't at some future date. Rather than fill the gaps in our knowledge with supernatural thinking, perhaps it would be more advantageous to seek rational explanations for things we don't understand.   Historically, with physical anthropology as a reference, Those who dared to research made outstanding discoveries. [ex] There was controversy between anthropologists and Bishop James Ussher since the the bones they dug up indicated the earth was older than 6,000 years.   I will admit that these crop circles are mysterious, but it's highly doubtful they're supernatural...

Edited August 27, 2012 by Mr. IsNot

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Aug 26 2012, 01:05 PM)

"If we ever travel thousands of light years to a distant planet lets just make patterns in their crops and leave." By. anonymous

Belated

[ILSnwdog]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Aug 27 2012, 04:06 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 03:31 PM) And that's always the impasse.  We can't prove it's supernatural any more than we can prove it's natural.  It all then boils down to what makes sense to you.  If you're open to supernatural anything, it's really a FAR more logical option than the enormity of time and work it would take for a team of people to do these under virtually impossible circumstances. There is no impasse at all. The "natural causes" have been proven. People have come forward and even shown how they've made the crop circles. All one needs to do is go investigate the crop circles, interview the community of people who live nearby and anyone else who may have had the opportunity and means to make them. That is how you prove something naturally.   It is mere opinion to claim that making such a complex crop circle would have to occur under "virtually impossible circumstances". Making these complex circles may be virtually impossible for people like you and me, but probably not for more ingenious people (who also have lots of free time on their hands ).   These are facts: People have made crop circles. People are still making crop circles. Many people are very good at math, geometry, art, engineering. It's perfectly logical, then, to conclude that the recent crop circles were most probably made by human beings.   Suggesting that a supernatural force did it, without providing any factual evidence, is simply an intellectual punt. It is illogic at a very basic level. Claiming that a supernatural force made the circles, and then saying, "You can't prove me wrong," is another punt. YOU make a claim, YOU have to back it up with facts.   Here is someone who makes crop circles.   http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/crop_circle_makers.jpg   Here is someone who does not make crop circles.   http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Marvinthemartain.jpg

[HomesickAlien]

[rushgoober]

I give. I've said what I can say. Obviously people who are closed minded to certain things have already made up their minds.

 

I'll leave you all with some pretty pictures, apparently made by an enormous group of people involved in a massive conspiracy of designers, engineers and artists over a course of decades with a lot of time and a lot of money to pay huge staffs who create virtually perfect mathematical designs in fields in the dead of night without leaving any evidence that they were there.

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropchilbolton01.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropchirton609.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropcleyhill710.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropcross908.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropc0908e.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop0406b.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop0308.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop0307a.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop0207.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop12cubes706.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/butterflycrop707.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/CanningsCross.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop8808.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop9407a.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop9708a.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop9708c.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop9907a.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop_mayancalendar2005.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropaltonbarnes709a.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropbeggarsknoll710.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crop1.gif

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropaltonbarnes709b.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropcannings608a.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropsilbury804.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropserpent607.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropridgeway608.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/croppewseywhitehorse810.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropjulia96.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/croplockeridge708.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/croplongbarrow809.jpg

Edited August 28, 2012 by rushgoober

[rushgoober]

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropnorthdown703.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropnorthdowns810.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropcubes807.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropdaneburyhill710.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropcube809.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropdevilsden99.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/crophampshire806.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropgallops702.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropfosbury710.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropetchilhampton.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropeye610.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropsmeathes709.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropspider02.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropstbernard807.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/croptrusloe7242a.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropwaylandsmithy708.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropwiltshire72006.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropwickhamgreen710.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropwhitesheethill610.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropwestwards708.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropwestkennett608.jpg

[My_Shrimp_Cot]

I think they are aliens favorite sports team logos.

[Ancient Ways]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Aug 26 2012, 11:19 PM)

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Aug 26 2012, 06:00 PM) There has been a lot of criticism of the Drake Equation. It makes far too many assumptions.   Indeed....the majority of the "equation" is pure speculation. It's not even close to an educated guess. It's interesting, it's entertaining, but it's a farce of a scientific equation.       N = R x f(p) x n(e) x f(l) x f(i) x f[c] x L   where:   N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible   R = the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy (knowable to some level of certainty) f(p) = the fraction of those stars that have planets (not known at this time) n(e) = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets (not known at this time) f(l)= the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point (not known at this time) f(i) = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life (not known at this time) f[c] = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space (not known at this time) L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space (not known at this time)     Sadly, we know next to nothing about the galaxy and how many star systems exist. We've only just started finding exoplanets. We don't even know what to look for.....we have only the life forms here on Earth as a guideline. What is out there could be beyond our comprehension, or it could be devoid of life. We just don't know......and that pisses me off!!! simple statistics is a far more important element here. The odds of all the things that need to happen for life to develop in the "evolutionary" world are daunting. That Drake equation does not account for any of this.

[rushgoober]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropbird609.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropbird709.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropbishop509.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropbishop6272.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropbox2003.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropc0508.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropc0607b.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropc0708a.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropc0708b.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropc0808a.jpg

 

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e85/rushgoober6/cropc0907a.jpg

 

[ReRushed]

I find in these instances that applying Occam's razor is the way to go...

[They Bow Defeated]

You have to ask yourself which is more likely:

 

1. Large groups of humans designing and mapping out these crop circles, and then going out and executing them at night, maybe taking several hours.

 

2. Alien beings travelling incomprehensible distances to Earth (or coming through wormholes, stargates, etc.), only to create these enigmatic crop circles rather than contacting humans directly.

 

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/848/ancient-aliens.jpg

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2012 by They Bow Defeated

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Aug 27 2012, 08:38 PM)

You have to ask yourself which is more likely: 1. Large groups of humans designing and mapping out these crop circles, and then going out and executing them at night, maybe taking several hours. 2. Alien beings travelling incomprehensible distances to Earth (or coming through wormholes, stargates, etc.), only to create these enigmatic crop circles rather than contacting humans directly. http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/848/ancient-aliens.jpg

Exactly!!!!

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 05:37 PM)

I find in these instances that applying Occam's razor is the way to go...

I absolutely agree, but come to the complete opposite conclusion that you do. It's much easier for me to assume that some kind of supernatural force did this than a grand conspiracy of orchestrated scientists, designers, artists and engineers with a tremendous amount of help spending countless man hours designing these things and then creating them at night with intense mathematical precision that can only be seen from the sky for no pay and often apparently never taking credit for what they've done without any sign that they were ever even there. The first one is much more succinct and a far simpler hypothesis, but of course it's only logical if your belief structure is wide enough to encompass that possibility. Anyway, again, I engage in pointless conversation, as no one who is closed to the possibility will ever acknowledge that it could exist, and will cite all kinds of scientific nonsense to try and prove what they've already decided has to be the only answer.

 

The same goes for Stonehenge, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, various pyramids and all kinds of other physical structures that can only be rationally explained by the most ridiculously elaborate set of circumstances that is FAR more complicated and makes far more assumptions than the simpler and much more succinct explanation of some kind of technology that would explain these things far more easily, but will never be considered because they are closed to the possibility that such things can exist. I've even heard the outlandish argument that they were created by technology that just no longer exists, even though the evidence of what was created does exist, but the method somehow vanished?

 

The sheer lengths skeptics and scientifically based people will go to in order to explain what is simply unexplainable without considering something supernatural is astounding. Of course to them I'm just being moronic because of their absolute refusal to consider even the vaguest possibility that could exist. That kind of closed-mindedness is simply that, however, and doesn't constitute any kind of special relationship with truth or reality, merely a narrow viewpoint and worldview.

[snowdogged]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 07:19 PM)

I give.  I've said what I can say.  Obviously people who are closed minded to certain things have already made up their minds. I'll leave you all with some pretty pictures, apparently made by an enormous group of people involved in a massive conspiracy of designers and artists with a lot of time and a lot of money to pay huge staffs who create virtually perfect mathematical designs in fields in the dead of night without leaving any evidence that they were there.

Wouldn't these supposed aliens have so much more free time on their hands with having to travel here and all? And how come they only do crop circles? Why don't they go out into the middle of the Antarctica and do some designs in the ice/snow or at the peak of Mount Everest? What are the aliens trying to tell us about our crops? Should we burn all the crops so the aliens will go away and leave us alone and finally put an end to this crop graffiti? If any aliens did ever come to our planet they surely wouldn't have stuck around with the bad rap that they get on this planet. The number one thing that people relate to aliens is anal probing and then crop circles. Aliens are almost always either evil, complete idiots or just or just too damn cute (Like E.T.) when they come to earth in the movies or on tv shows.

 

Just the fuel alone in order for these aliens to make these crop circles must cost a lot in whatever currency the aliens use (I wonder if they get any Airmiles when they buy fuel?).

Edited August 28, 2012 by snowdogged

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 08:55 PM)

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 05:37 PM) I find in these instances that applying Occam's razor is the way to go... I absolutely agree, but come to the complete opposite conclusion that you do. It's much easier for me to assume that some kind of supernatural force did this than a grand conspiracy of orchestrated scientists, designers, artists and engineers with a tremendous amount of help spending countless man hours designing these things and then creating them at night with intense mathematical precision that can only be seen from the sky for no pay and often apparently never taking credit for what they've done without any sign that they were ever even there. The first one is much more succinct and a far simpler hypothesis, but of course it's only logical if your belief structure is wide enough to encompass that possibility. Anyway, again, I engage in pointless conversation, as no one who is closed to the possibility will ever acknowledge that it could exist, and will cite all kinds of scientific nonsense to try and prove what they've already decided has to be the only answer.   The same goes for Stonehenge, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, various pyramids and all kinds of other physical structures that can only be rationally explained by the most ridiculously elaborate set of circumstances that is FAR more complicated and makes far more assumptions than the simpler and much more succinct explanation of some kind of technology that would explain these things far more easily, but will never be considered because they are closed to the possibility that such things can exist. I've even heard the outlandish argument that they were created by technology that just no longer exists, even though the evidence of what was created does exist, but the method somehow vanished?   The sheer lengths skeptics and scientifically based people will go to in order to explain what is simply unexplainable without considering something supernatural is astounding. Of course to them I'm just being moronic because of their absolute refusal to consider even the vaguest possibility that could exist. That kind of closed-mindedness is simply that, however, and doesn't constitute any kind of special relationship with truth or reality, merely a narrow viewpoint and worldview. Your argument is filled with assumptions and wishful thinking. And overly complicated!

[HomesickAlien]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 07:55 PM)

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 05:37 PM) I find in these instances that applying Occam's razor is the way to go... I absolutely agree, but come to the complete opposite conclusion that you do. It's much easier for me to assume that some kind of supernatural force did this than a grand conspiracy of orchestrated scientists, designers, artists and engineers with a tremendous amount of help spending countless man hours designing these things and then creating them at night with intense mathematical precision that can only be seen from the sky for no pay and often apparently never taking credit for what they've done without any sign that they were ever even there. The first one is much more succinct and a far simpler hypothesis, but of course it's only logical if your belief structure is wide enough to encompass that possibility. Anyway, again, I engage in pointless conversation, as no one who is closed to the possibility will ever acknowledge that it could exist, and will cite all kinds of scientific nonsense to try and prove what they've already decided has to be the only answer.   The same goes for Stonehenge, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, various pyramids and all kinds of other physical structures that can only be rationally explained by the most ridiculously elaborate set of circumstances that is FAR more complicated and makes far more assumptions than the simpler and much more succinct explanation of some kind of technology that would explain these things far more easily, but will never be considered because they are closed to the possibility that such things can exist. I've even heard the outlandish argument that they were created by technology that just no longer exists, even though the evidence of what was created does exist, but the method somehow vanished?   The sheer lengths skeptics and scientifically based people will go to in order to explain what is simply unexplainable without considering something supernatural is astounding. Of course to them I'm just being moronic because of their absolute refusal to consider even the vaguest possibility that could exist. That kind of closed-mindedness is simply that, however, and doesn't constitute any kind of special relationship with truth or reality, merely a narrow viewpoint and worldview. Someone's been reading too much Erich Von Daniken.

[ReRushed]

Apparently, aliens are incapable of translating or learning Earth-based languages.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 06:02 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 08:55 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 05:37 PM) I find in these instances that applying Occam's razor is the way to go... I absolutely agree, but come to the complete opposite conclusion that you do. It's much easier for me to assume that some kind of supernatural force did this than a grand conspiracy of orchestrated scientists, designers, artists and engineers with a tremendous amount of help spending countless man hours designing these things and then creating them at night with intense mathematical precision that can only be seen from the sky for no pay and often apparently never taking credit for what they've done without any sign that they were ever even there. The first one is much more succinct and a far simpler hypothesis, but of course it's only logical if your belief structure is wide enough to encompass that possibility. Anyway, again, I engage in pointless conversation, as no one who is closed to the possibility will ever acknowledge that it could exist, and will cite all kinds of scientific nonsense to try and prove what they've already decided has to be the only answer.   The same goes for Stonehenge, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, various pyramids and all kinds of other physical structures that can only be rationally explained by the most ridiculously elaborate set of circumstances that is FAR more complicated and makes far more assumptions than the simpler and much more succinct explanation of some kind of technology that would explain these things far more easily, but will never be considered because they are closed to the possibility that such things can exist. I've even heard the outlandish argument that they were created by technology that just no longer exists, even though the evidence of what was created does exist, but the method somehow vanished?   The sheer lengths skeptics and scientifically based people will go to in order to explain what is simply unexplainable without considering something supernatural is astounding. Of course to them I'm just being moronic because of their absolute refusal to consider even the vaguest possibility that could exist. That kind of closed-mindedness is simply that, however, and doesn't constitute any kind of special relationship with truth or reality, merely a narrow viewpoint and worldview. Your argument is filled with assumptions and wishful thinking. And overly complicated! If you say so. I can't live life that excludes the possibility of things magical and supernatural, especially when there is so much that doesn't make sense to me otherwise. And then I have my personal experience that there is so much more to life than what we can perceive only with our five senses and measure only with currently existing and accepted scientific methodology. Anything less than that seems very limiting to me, and honestly quite depressing. To me it's the equivalent of accepting less than 1% of reality and living life blindfolded. I can't do it.

Edited August 28, 2012 by rushgoober

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 09:09 PM)

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 06:02 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 08:55 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 05:37 PM) I find in these instances that applying Occam's razor is the way to go... I absolutely agree, but come to the complete opposite conclusion that you do. It's much easier for me to assume that some kind of supernatural force did this than a grand conspiracy of orchestrated scientists, designers, artists and engineers with a tremendous amount of help spending countless man hours designing these things and then creating them at night with intense mathematical precision that can only be seen from the sky for no pay and often apparently never taking credit for what they've done without any sign that they were ever even there. The first one is much more succinct and a far simpler hypothesis, but of course it's only logical if your belief structure is wide enough to encompass that possibility. Anyway, again, I engage in pointless conversation, as no one who is closed to the possibility will ever acknowledge that it could exist, and will cite all kinds of scientific nonsense to try and prove what they've already decided has to be the only answer.   The same goes for Stonehenge, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, various pyramids and all kinds of other physical structures that can only be rationally explained by the most ridiculously elaborate set of circumstances that is FAR more complicated and makes far more assumptions than the simpler and much more succinct explanation of some kind of technology that would explain these things far more easily, but will never be considered because they are closed to the possibility that such things can exist. I've even heard the outlandish argument that they were created by technology that just no longer exists, even though the evidence of what was created does exist, but the method somehow vanished?   The sheer lengths skeptics and scientifically based people will go to in order to explain what is simply unexplainable without considering something supernatural is astounding. Of course to them I'm just being moronic because of their absolute refusal to consider even the vaguest possibility that could exist. That kind of closed-mindedness is simply that, however, and doesn't constitute any kind of special relationship with truth or reality, merely a narrow viewpoint and worldview. Your argument is filled with assumptions and wishful thinking. And overly complicated! If you say so. I can't live life that excludes the possibility of things magical and supernatural, especially when there is so much that doesn't make sense to me otherwise. And then I have my personal experience that there is so much more to life than what we can perceive only with our five senses and measure only with currently existing and accepted scientific methodology. Anything less than that seems very limiting to me, and honestly quite depressing. To me it's the equivalent of accepting less than 1% of reality and living life blindfolded. I can't do it. You just basically defined wishful thinking. I'll stick with actual evidence and scientific and logical testing of evidence. Also, as science advances it grows and includes any new evidence, logically I might add.   Also, why do crop circles usually appear May through August? Hmm....

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 06:20 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 09:09 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 06:02 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 08:55 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 05:37 PM) I find in these instances that applying Occam's razor is the way to go... I absolutely agree, but come to the complete opposite conclusion that you do. It's much easier for me to assume that some kind of supernatural force did this than a grand conspiracy of orchestrated scientists, designers, artists and engineers with a tremendous amount of help spending countless man hours designing these things and then creating them at night with intense mathematical precision that can only be seen from the sky for no pay and often apparently never taking credit for what they've done without any sign that they were ever even there. The first one is much more succinct and a far simpler hypothesis, but of course it's only logical if your belief structure is wide enough to encompass that possibility. Anyway, again, I engage in pointless conversation, as no one who is closed to the possibility will ever acknowledge that it could exist, and will cite all kinds of scientific nonsense to try and prove what they've already decided has to be the only answer.   The same goes for Stonehenge, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, various pyramids and all kinds of other physical structures that can only be rationally explained by the most ridiculously elaborate set of circumstances that is FAR more complicated and makes far more assumptions than the simpler and much more succinct explanation of some kind of technology that would explain these things far more easily, but will never be considered because they are closed to the possibility that such things can exist. I've even heard the outlandish argument that they were created by technology that just no longer exists, even though the evidence of what was created does exist, but the method somehow vanished?   The sheer lengths skeptics and scientifically based people will go to in order to explain what is simply unexplainable without considering something supernatural is astounding. Of course to them I'm just being moronic because of their absolute refusal to consider even the vaguest possibility that could exist. That kind of closed-mindedness is simply that, however, and doesn't constitute any kind of special relationship with truth or reality, merely a narrow viewpoint and worldview. Your argument is filled with assumptions and wishful thinking. And overly complicated! If you say so. I can't live life that excludes the possibility of things magical and supernatural, especially when there is so much that doesn't make sense to me otherwise. And then I have my personal experience that there is so much more to life than what we can perceive only with our five senses and measure only with currently existing and accepted scientific methodology. Anything less than that seems very limiting to me, and honestly quite depressing. To me it's the equivalent of accepting less than 1% of reality and living life blindfolded. I can't do it. You just basically defined wishful thinking.   I guess I shouldn't realistically expect people to be able to conceive of things beyond their ability to do so. I sincerely hope one day that you and the others who are unable to do this are able to see more.

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 09:29 PM)

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 06:20 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 09:09 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 06:02 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 08:55 PM) QUOTE (ReRushed @ Aug 27 2012, 05:37 PM) I find in these instances that applying Occam's razor is the way to go... I absolutely agree, but come to the complete opposite conclusion that you do. It's much easier for me to assume that some kind of supernatural force did this than a grand conspiracy of orchestrated scientists, designers, artists and engineers with a tremendous amount of help spending countless man hours designing these things and then creating them at night with intense mathematical precision that can only be seen from the sky for no pay and often apparently never taking credit for what they've done without any sign that they were ever even there. The first one is much more succinct and a far simpler hypothesis, but of course it's only logical if your belief structure is wide enough to encompass that possibility. Anyway, again, I engage in pointless conversation, as no one who is closed to the possibility will ever acknowledge that it could exist, and will cite all kinds of scientific nonsense to try and prove what they've already decided has to be the only answer.   The same goes for Stonehenge, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, various pyramids and all kinds of other physical structures that can only be rationally explained by the most ridiculously elaborate set of circumstances that is FAR more complicated and makes far more assumptions than the simpler and much more succinct explanation of some kind of technology that would explain these things far more easily, but will never be considered because they are closed to the possibility that such things can exist. I've even heard the outlandish argument that they were created by technology that just no longer exists, even though the evidence of what was created does exist, but the method somehow vanished?   The sheer lengths skeptics and scientifically based people will go to in order to explain what is simply unexplainable without considering something supernatural is astounding. Of course to them I'm just being moronic because of their absolute refusal to consider even the vaguest possibility that could exist. That kind of closed-mindedness is simply that, however, and doesn't constitute any kind of special relationship with truth or reality, merely a narrow viewpoint and worldview. Your argument is filled with assumptions and wishful thinking. And overly complicated! If you say so. I can't live life that excludes the possibility of things magical and supernatural, especially when there is so much that doesn't make sense to me otherwise. And then I have my personal experience that there is so much more to life than what we can perceive only with our five senses and measure only with currently existing and accepted scientific methodology. Anything less than that seems very limiting to me, and honestly quite depressing. To me it's the equivalent of accepting less than 1% of reality and living life blindfolded. I can't do it. You just basically defined wishful thinking.   I guess I shouldn't realistically expect people to be able to conceive of things beyond their ability to do so. I sincerely hope one day that you and the others who are unable to do this are able to see more. I guess it's my aura! Try unrealistically expecting things from people like me!

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 07:55 PM)

The sheer lengths skeptics and scientifically based people will go to in order to explain what is simply unexplainable without considering something supernatural is astounding. Of course to them I'm just being moronic because of their absolute refusal to consider even the vaguest possibility that could exist. That kind of closed-mindedness is simply that, however, and doesn't constitute any kind of special relationship with truth or reality, merely a narrow viewpoint and worldview.

Fascinating.....

 

Someone can't provide any evidence of the existence of the "supernatural"....whatever that is. He can't define it, explain it, or describe it. He can't show anyone what it is or where it is. He says that he cannot live without his belief in the supernatural....

 

....and yet, everyone else is "close-minded".

Everyone else "refuses to consider" it.

Everyone else has a "narrow worldview".

Everyone else is "unable to conceive of it".

 

It's always everyone else's error.

It's always everyone else who is in the wrong.

It's always everyone else who won't listen.

 

 

It's quite simple. Either provide real, factual proof that some "supernatural force" created these crop circles, or stop wasting your and everyone else's time.

 

[snowdogged]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Aug 27 2012, 08:54 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 27 2012, 07:55 PM) The sheer lengths skeptics and scientifically based people will go to in order to explain what is simply unexplainable without considering something supernatural is astounding.  Of course to them I'm just being moronic because of their absolute refusal to consider even the vaguest possibility that could exist.  That kind of closed-mindedness is simply that, however, and doesn't constitute any kind of special relationship with truth or reality, merely a narrow viewpoint and worldview. Fascinating.....   Someone can't provide any evidence of the existence of the "supernatural"....whatever that is. He can't define it, explain it, or describe it. He can't show anyone what it is or where it is. He says that he cannot live without his belief in the supernatural....   ....and yet, everyone else is "close-minded". Everyone else "refuses to consider" it. Everyone else has a "narrow worldview". Everyone else is "unable to conceive of it".   It's always everyone else's error. It's always everyone else who is in the wrong. It's always everyone else who won't listen.     It's quite simple. Either provide real, factual proof that some "supernatural force" created these crop circles, or stop wasting your and everyone else's time.   That's what everyone else says.