Don't Like It

[eshine]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 10 2012, 05:45 PM)

QUOTE (third hand grace @ Jun 10 2012, 03:39 PM) I love Rush, been my favorite band since I was NINE years old in 1981. 43 concerts under my belt well...just gonna say it... I do not understand why Geddy does so much with his (old) voice! Im REALLY struggling with the vocals on this one (CA). I've listened to every song about 7x. I just keep finding spots where I cringe. I'm no singer/musician, but to me it just seems like he's trying to do "too much" for lack of technical words. musically I like it, and conceptually I LOVE the idea. I need to step away for a few days... His vocal abilities are extremely diminished. He's been abusing it for decades through touring and smoking, which he quit but the damage is done.   He's doing the best he can, and something is better than nothing at all, isnt it? I think he sounds dreadful on some of these songs, especially when he tries to sing low and from the heart. He sounds like an old man in those moments, but sometimes he sounds decent too, for his age of course. He's never going to sound like he used to again and he's not going to stop singing the way apparently he likes to sing. He sounds bad when trying to sing form the heart?? as opposed to what, when he fakes it? What does that even mean??   Do you guys even listen to music or is it all about exact technical proficiency for you? This isn't the "Vocal Institute of Technology"   What a shame that you feel the need to filter his singing through his younger self. Any "musician" worth his salt should know better.   And cmon - he quit smoking 30 years ago... and he wasn't smoking crack. It has had zero effect on current voice.

[Tarkus406]

QUOTE (eshine @ Jun 10 2012, 11:27 PM)

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 10 2012, 05:45 PM) QUOTE (third hand grace @ Jun 10 2012, 03:39 PM) I love Rush, been my favorite band since I was NINE years old in 1981. 43 concerts under my belt well...just gonna say it... I do not understand why Geddy does so much with his (old) voice! Im REALLY struggling with the vocals on this one (CA). I've listened to every song about 7x. I just keep finding spots where I cringe. I'm no singer/musician, but to me it just seems like he's trying to do "too much" for lack of technical words. musically I like it, and conceptually I LOVE the idea. I need to step away for a few days... His vocal abilities are extremely diminished. He's been abusing it for decades through touring and smoking, which he quit but the damage is done.   He's doing the best he can, and something is better than nothing at all, isnt it? I think he sounds dreadful on some of these songs, especially when he tries to sing low and from the heart. He sounds like an old man in those moments, but sometimes he sounds decent too, for his age of course. He's never going to sound like he used to again and he's not going to stop singing the way apparently he likes to sing. He sounds bad when trying to sing form the heart?? as opposed to what, when he fakes it? What does that even mean??   Do you guys even listen to music or is it all about exact technical proficiency for you? This isn't the "Vocal Institute of Technology"   What a shame that you feel the need to filter his singing through his younger self. Any "musician" worth his salt should know better.   And cmon - he quit smoking 30 years ago... and he wasn't smoking crack. It has had zero effect on current voice. Welcome to Trenken's University of Vocal Science. Everybody fails. Get out.

[Majestyk]

Your opinion sucks...What can I say, I had to state something different than the others here.

[goose]

QUOTE (third hand grace @ Jun 10 2012, 03:39 PM)

I love Rush, been my favorite band since I was NINE years old in 1981. 43 concerts under my belt well...just gonna say it... I do not understand why Geddy does so much with his (old) voice! Im REALLY struggling with the vocals on this one (CA). I've listened to every song about 7x. I just keep finding spots where I cringe. I'm no singer/musician, but to me it just seems like he's trying to do "too much" for lack of technical words. musically I like it, and conceptually I LOVE the idea. I need to step away for a few days...

You are not alone. I like everything about the album except the vocals. There isn't a song on the album that I don't love musically, and disdain in terms of vocals. Why he chooses to sing this way these days is beyond me.

 

I've been listening to Roll the Bones lately, an album where the older Geddy shines. He can sing that way still, but chooses not to. As a result, to my ears there isn't a singable melody among the entirety of CA.

 

[goose]

QUOTE (eshine @ Jun 10 2012, 11:27 PM)

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 10 2012, 05:45 PM) QUOTE (third hand grace @ Jun 10 2012, 03:39 PM) I love Rush, been my favorite band since I was NINE years old in 1981. 43 concerts under my belt well...just gonna say it... I do not understand why Geddy does so much with his (old) voice! Im REALLY struggling with the vocals on this one (CA). I've listened to every song about 7x. I just keep finding spots where I cringe. I'm no singer/musician, but to me it just seems like he's trying to do "too much" for lack of technical words. musically I like it, and conceptually I LOVE the idea. I need to step away for a few days... His vocal abilities are extremely diminished. He's been abusing it for decades through touring and smoking, which he quit but the damage is done.   He's doing the best he can, and something is better than nothing at all, isnt it? I think he sounds dreadful on some of these songs, especially when he tries to sing low and from the heart. He sounds like an old man in those moments, but sometimes he sounds decent too, for his age of course. He's never going to sound like he used to again and he's not going to stop singing the way apparently he likes to sing. He sounds bad when trying to sing form the heart?? as opposed to what, when he fakes it? What does that even mean??   Do you guys even listen to music or is it all about exact technical proficiency for you? It's about melody, which Geddy achieved on S&A songs like "Working Them Angels", and missed on tracks like "Spindrift". From what I hear, CA is too much along the lines of the "Spindrift" wailing as opposed to finding a passionate melody within his current range. Just how I hear it.

[Hakky2112]

I think the vocals (let alone everything else) on CA are just unreal.

 

This album is insta-classic in my books.

 

 

[Mr. Henry Gale]

http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/png/sad-i-know-that-feel-bro.png

 

I felt that way about Snakes & Arrows. Hope you like something else they put out later down the line (if there is more albums).

[eshine]

QUOTE (goose @ Jun 11 2012, 12:10 AM)

QUOTE (third hand grace @ Jun 10 2012, 03:39 PM) I love Rush, been my favorite band since I was NINE years old in 1981. 43 concerts under my belt well...just gonna say it... I do not understand why Geddy does so much with his (old) voice! Im REALLY struggling with the vocals on this one (CA). I've listened to every song about 7x. I just keep finding spots where I cringe. I'm no singer/musician, but to me it just seems like he's trying to do "too much" for lack of technical words. musically I like it, and conceptually I LOVE the idea. I need to step away for a few days... You are not alone. I like everything about the album except the vocals. There isn't a song on the album that I don't love musically, and disdain in terms of vocals. Why he chooses to sing this way these days is beyond me.   I've been listening to Roll the Bones lately, an album where the older Geddy shines. He can sing that way still, but chooses not to. As a result, to my ears there isn't a singable melody among the entirety of CA.   On RTB he played it safe. Servicable, but forgettable vocals.   Over the last decade he has decide to throw caution to the wind and push his voice. The results haven't always been spot on, but are far more interesting.   I love his voice on Spindrift. There is an ache to it. It works and is perfectly suited to the music.   And can you imagine Earthshine being given a RTB type vocal?   Screw that.   Have not heard the whole new album (can you believe it? lol) so I can't fairly comment on all of the vocals - but I love what he does on Headlong Flight. Absolutely love his vocals.   He sounds like a kick ass 58 year old rock singer.

[Barchetta82]

Hey, much respect for your opinion - I just don't happen to share it. However I am sure that there are many Rush albums that we do agree about! I wish you all the best and hope you can get out to see them on tour this year even if the album isn't working for you!

 

[Lerxster]

QUOTE (earth2112shine @ Jun 10 2012, 01:57 PM)

I don't like this album!! Having been a fan since 2112, I never thought I'd say that but there it is. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is crap or indeed anything negative, all the usual musicianship and song crafting is there, it's just that I don't like the end result. Don't flame me or anything, I'm just saying how I feel about this one record ! Anyone agree, kind of doubt it like ? Sorry guys

If you're going to start a thread like this, you could at give at least one specific reason why you don't like the end result before you apologoze.

[GeddyRulz]

Yes, we all have our opinions. Some, I suppose, won't like it.

 

I haven't heard the whole album, but based on the clips I heard I already believe I'll like it more than Snakes and Arrows. (From just the CLIPS of S&A, I was immediately worried... as I should have been.)

 

I think I'll like Clockwork Angels just fine, maybe love it.

 

 

 

 

[Presto-digitation]

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 11 2012, 05:50 AM)

Yes, we all have our opinions. Some, I suppose, won't like it. I haven't heard the whole album, but based on the clips I heard I already believe I'll like it more than Snakes and Arrows. (From just the CLIPS of S&A, I was immediately worried... as I should have been.) I think I'll like Clockwork Angels just fine, maybe love it.

Looking forward to your reflections on it.

[vital signz]

QUOTE (goose @ Jun 11 2012, 01:15 AM)

QUOTE (eshine @ Jun 10 2012, 11:27 PM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 10 2012, 05:45 PM) QUOTE (third hand grace @ Jun 10 2012, 03:39 PM) I love Rush, been my favorite band since I was NINE years old in 1981. 43 concerts under my belt well...just gonna say it... I do not understand why Geddy does so much with his (old) voice! Im REALLY struggling with the vocals on this one (CA). I've listened to every song about 7x. I just keep finding spots where I cringe. I'm no singer/musician, but to me it just seems like he's trying to do "too much" for lack of technical words. musically I like it, and conceptually I LOVE the idea. I need to step away for a few days... His vocal abilities are extremely diminished. He's been abusing it for decades through touring and smoking, which he quit but the damage is done.   He's doing the best he can, and something is better than nothing at all, isnt it? I think he sounds dreadful on some of these songs, especially when he tries to sing low and from the heart. He sounds like an old man in those moments, but sometimes he sounds decent too, for his age of course. He's never going to sound like he used to again and he's not going to stop singing the way apparently he likes to sing. He sounds bad when trying to sing form the heart?? as opposed to what, when he fakes it? What does that even mean??   Do you guys even listen to music or is it all about exact technical proficiency for you? It's about melody, which Geddy achieved on S&A songs like "Working Them Angels", and missed on tracks like "Spindrift". From what I hear, CA is too much along the lines of the "Spindrift" wailing as opposed to finding a passionate melody within his current range. Just how I hear it. From taste they are all entitled to their opinions, but from a musicians perspective, even though sometimes they think they know what they are talking about, they may not be as on target as they think they are...I have heard Trenken on more than one occasion go on and on about how he knows musicianship. Well so do I and I can tell you that he isn't always right about everything he says. But I can respect how he and THG and Goose feel about the fact they don't LIKE his voice.   I have been a musician for 30 years and played professionally for 5 of those years before going into my career which is decidedly different. I still play and record regularly for my own joy and happiness. I only say that so Trenken will maybe give what I have to say some credence, so he just doesn't automatically come at me with   What is the truth is Geddy is still pitch perfect in the studio. His voice is not dreadful. Dreadful is missed pitch, horrible tone, horrible quality...His range is diminished as are the dynamic qualities of his voice (the ability to yodel say, for example....or like David Lee Roth's old ability to instantaneously go into those high pitched caterwauling moments of his in the days of old, which he cannot do at all now)...but his ability so sing on pitch in the studio is perfect. His vibrato is also quite good. William Hung singing Rush would be dreadful.   What these guys should be saying is that they do not LIKE his voice anymore. Not that he doesn't have it, or has lost it. They don't care for his tone, his register, his dynamic ability. It sure as heck isn't dreadful.   A great example is Johnny Cash. He had a smoothness as a young man, a gruffness as an old man, but he could still stay on pitch and sing with emotion.   The song Hurt by Trent Reznor, was performed far better by Mr Cash than by Reznor, as stated by Trent himself. Yet when you here it, there is nothing fancy there at all, no range to speak of, no smoothness or vocal acrobatics whatsoever. It is just emotive. He can barely get the words out, but it is from his heart. Dreadful? I think not. I happen to care more for Cash's voice later in life than younger days. I feel the same about Geddy. I much prefer his voice from Moving Pictures forward than in the earlier days.   So while Geddy's voice has changed, the ability is there in the studio. That is what we are talking about at this moment, right? Dreadful just isn't the right word. "I don't care for it" may be a better way to phrase it.   Now, live----that is another story. I sing and play guitar simultaneously and I can tell you that there is always lost ability to maintain pitch and tone while doing two things at the same time. The more complicated the playing the more ability is lost. That is just science. So expect Geddy to miss notes in concert. Different ones each night. As one ages, this will get worse from a neurological perspective. Expect more missed notes in concert in these later years. But give him acceptance I say, because I'll bet no one here on this forum can play the runs from this album and sing the songs, all while maintaining perfect pitch.   So I LIKE middle aged Geddy's voice. Others don't, that's ok. But it's not due to wrong choices or mistakes. The musicianship is there. The pitch is right and the tone is right. The emotion is right. But you may not find it pleasing YOURself. To Geddy, Alex and Neil, I am sure they love it just fine. To legions of fans its great and to scores its not the same and they don't care for it anymore. Goose states he doesn't understand why Geddy chooses to sing the way he does. But I can assure you its not a CHOICE of Geddy's. It is what it is. I sure would not call it dreadful like Trenken did, just as I wouldn't call Cash's version of Hurt dreadful. It is emotive and that's more important. Cash didn't choose to sing Hurt the way he did, it simply was the way it was.   And like Trenken said, "he's doing the best he can, and something is better than nothing"   I do think Trenken knows a lot about musicianship, I just think the way he is judging Geddy's voice is wrong.

[Rushman14]

QUOTE (vital signz @ Jun 11 2012, 05:01 AM)

I have heard Trenken on more than one occasion go on and on about how he knows musicianship. Well so do I and I can tell you that he isn't always right about everything he says.

I'm a bass player and also have 30 years of studio and live experience, and I can tell you Trenken is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is. Most of his posts are mean spirited and negative just for the sake of it, including this recent one "Jesus, Rush has the worst fans ever".

 

nuff said.

 

 

[ReflectedLight]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Jun 10 2012, 02:04 PM)

QUOTE (earth2112shine @ Jun 10 2012, 07:57 PM) I don't like this album!! Having been a  fan since 2112, I never thought I'd say that but there it is. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is crap or indeed negative, all the usual musicianship and song crafting is there, it's just that I don't like the end result. Don't flame me or anything, I'm just saying how I feel about this one record ! Anyone agree, kind of doubt it like ? Sorry guys  Why should we care? Why would you apologise?       And why start a new thread about it???

[Chicken hawk]

Like the samples..will love the Album !

 

 

Only Thums Up !

[Tick]

I hate the board when a new album comes out.

 

 

[EveryNerveAware]

The best thing is that there is a new album that you can express your opinion about.

 

New music from a great band that could have hung it up years ago makes it worth buying the album even if it isn't your cup of tea.

 

In my opinion, it is better than 95% of other new music being produced so I think they're doing a great job.

 

 

[EveryNerveAware]

QUOTE (Tick @ Jun 11 2012, 12:15 PM)

I hate the board when a new album comes out.

You hate it here anyway.

 

 

[jnoble]

I don't find it nearly as dull and negative as most of S&A, but unfortunatly it still has the SAME EXACT problems that's plagued them starting with TFE....heavy riffs awkwardly pasted together, no strong hooks or melodys that stick in your head after listening, songs with too many words, Geddy sounds like he's inventing the melody on the spot on most songs.

 

I like the concept, I like the story, I like the imagery, I like the little story notes in the booklet above the lyrics that tell us what's going on, I like the return to a more epic sound and concept, I like the album art cover with the deep crimson color. I just don't remember most of what I've heard outside of a part here and there and that's one of the worst things to say about a rock album....not having any of it stick with you after ejecting the CD and moving on with your day.

 

Sorry Rush, I love you guys, but your songwriting/composing skills just aren't there anymore. Heavy loud riffs and busy playing aren't enough to keep the casual fan coming back for future listens....not only that, but most of these songs don't even make much sense to want to listen to out of sequence of the story.

Edited June 13, 2012 by jnoble

[Gedneil Alpeart]

QUOTE (jnoble @ Jun 12 2012, 07:29 PM)

I don't find it nearly as dull and negative as most of S&A, but unfortunatly it still has the SAME EXACT problems that's plagued them starting with TFE....heavy riffs awkwardly pasted together, no strong hooks or melodys that stick in your head after listening, songs with too many words, Geddy sounds like he's inventing the melody on the spot on most songs. I like the concept, I like the story, I like the imagery, I like the little story notes in the booklet above the lyrics that tell us what's going on, I like the return to a more epic sound and concept, I like the album art cover with the deep crimson color. I just don't remember most of what I've heard outside of a part here and there and that's one of the worst things to say about a rock album....not having any of it stick with you after ejecting the CD and moving on with your day. Sorry Rush, I love you guys, but your songwriting/composing skills just aren't there anymore. Heavy loud riffs and busy playing aren't enough to keep the casual fan coming back for future listens....not only that, but most of these songs don't even make much sense to want to listen to out of sequence of the story.

I find these songs very melodic, easily remembered them after only one listen, and they evoked powerful feelings in me. To each their own.

[LeaveMyThingAlone]

QUOTE (jnoble @ Jun 12 2012, 07:29 PM)

I don't find it nearly as dull and negative as most of S&A, but unfortunatly it still has the SAME EXACT problems that's plagued them starting with TFE....heavy riffs awkwardly pasted together, no strong hooks or melodys that stick in your head after listening, songs with too many words, Geddy sounds like he's inventing the melody on the spot on most songs. I like the concept, I like the story, I like the imagery, I like the little story notes in the booklet above the lyrics that tell us what's going on, I like the return to a more epic sound and concept, I like the album art cover with the deep crimson color. I just don't remember most of what I've heard outside of a part here and there and that's one of the worst things to say about a rock album....not having any of it stick with you after ejecting the CD and moving on with your day. Sorry Rush, I love you guys, but your songwriting/composing skills just aren't there anymore. Heavy loud riffs and busy playing aren't enough to keep the casual fan coming back for future listens....not only that, but most of these songs don't even make much sense to want to listen to out of sequence of the story.

Wow, could not disagree more with the majority of what you said. There are more hooks on this album than I can remember on any Rush album. The Anarchist, Halo Effect, Wish them Well, the Wreckers all have hooks.

 

Alex is riffing like I haven't heard since Counterparts and the riffs do not sound awkward at all...

 

It is an album that takes some work, I'll say that. How many times have you listened to it?

[ReflectedLight]

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Jun 12 2012, 09:04 PM)

QUOTE (jnoble @ Jun 12 2012, 07:29 PM) I don't find it nearly as dull and negative as most of S&A, but unfortunatly it still has the SAME EXACT problems that's plagued them starting with TFE....heavy riffs awkwardly pasted together, no strong hooks or melodys that stick in your head after listening, songs with too many words, Geddy sounds like he's inventing the melody on the spot on most songs. I like the concept, I like the story, I like the imagery, I like the little story notes in the booklet above the lyrics that tell us what's going on, I like the return to a more epic sound and concept, I like the album art cover with the deep crimson color. I just don't remember most of what I've heard outside of a part here and there and that's one of the worst things to say about a rock album....not having any of it stick with you after ejecting the CD and moving on with your day.  Sorry Rush, I love you guys, but your songwriting/composing skills just aren't there anymore. Heavy loud riffs and busy playing aren't enough to keep the casual fan coming back for future listens....not only that, but most of these songs don't even make much sense to want to listen to out of sequence of the story.   Wish them Well, the Wreckers all have hooks.   they might have hooks but i find them un-rush like and very dull to where i can see geddy looking at the words neil came up with and struggling to find a good vocal melody for them.

[theredtamasrule]

[losingit2k]