What was the fix for Presto on DVD/CD

[jonboy71]

I've read there was some trouble on Presto which had to be fixed for the DVD/CD. What specifically was it?

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

There was a bit of a trainwreck on the performance. Neil missed a cue or something. So they borrowed a piece of music from an earlier part of the song and inserted it over the trainwreck. In the finished edit, you'd never know there was anything done unless you were at that show and remember the miscue.

[Sir Lerxst]

I believe that Geddy pressed the wrong trigger, triggering the wrong synth part and by the time the correct synth was triggered, it was out of time, during the guitar solo.

 

In the finished edit, you have to listen very carefully to notice where the tracks have been spliced together.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2011 by Sir Lerxst

[Brava Doh!]

QUOTE (Sir Lerxst @ Nov 3 2011, 03:03 PM)

I believe that Geddy pressed the wrong trigger, triggering the wrong synth part and by the time the correct synth was triggered, it was out of time, during the guitar solo. In the finished edit, you have to listen very carefully to notice where the tracks have been spliced together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOQQhst_qg4&t=3m40s

I don't think it was a trigger, Neil just got behind a beat or two during the solo.

 

The fix is nicely done.

[Sir Lerxst]

QUOTE (Brava Doh! @ Nov 4 2011, 11:20 AM)

QUOTE (Sir Lerxst @ Nov 3 2011, 03:03 PM) I believe that Geddy pressed the wrong trigger, triggering the wrong synth part and by the time the correct synth was triggered, it was out of time, during the guitar solo. In the finished edit, you have to listen very carefully to notice where the tracks have been spliced together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOQQhst_qg4&t=3m40s I don't think it was a trigger, Neil just got behind a beat or two during the solo.   The fix is nicely done. I thought that too, but the more I listen to it, the more that it sounds as if the synth is not in time, which, in turn as it is being pumped into Neils IEMs pretty loud threw him out. Also the synth is still playing when Geddy should be singing "Don't ask me".   Regardless, the fix is pretty well done I admit.

[Nate1647]

You can actually hear geddy hit the wrong pedal first, the first chord of the chorus comes out, then he taps the correct one and it is apparently on the same mute group as the chorus samples, because it cancels it out and plays the correct sample, yet a half measure late, Neil adapts, Alex doesn't, Geddy is lost. Simple as that.

[jonboy71]

QUOTE (Nate1647 @ Nov 4 2011, 11:56 AM)

You can actually hear geddy hit the wrong pedal first, the first chord of the chorus comes out, then he taps the correct one and it is apparently on the same mute group as the chorus samples, because it cancels it out and plays the correct sample, yet a half measure late, Neil adapts, Alex doesn't, Geddy is lost. Simple as that.

Would like to know exactly how they fixed this in the officially released version. Overdubs or did they do a lift and lay so to speak?

[druid13]

blap -a blap a blap a blap.....woo. That was rough man.

 

Actually Neil Should have just gone ahead wiht the fill when it should happen...Alex's solo leads iright nto it and maybe Geddy would have caught up with what was happening....the delay really hacked it up.

Edited November 4, 2011 by druid13

[Sir Lerxst]

QUOTE (jonboy71 @ Nov 4 2011, 07:02 PM)

Would like to know exactly how they fixed this in the officially released version. Overdubs or did they do a lift and lay so to speak?

Speaking as a trainee mix engineer myself (and this is my theory, I don't know what Rich Chycki did;

 

Generally, from what I can hear, the correct parts were played, just at the wrong times. It sounds however that Alex is the person who stayed in time the best, so I'd use him as the reference.

 

I'd first sync up the drums to the guitar. This should be fairly simple as Neil is pretty tight. The final fill during the solo section is played one bar too late, so cut and paste it into the correct place one bar previous, then create a copy of the first bar after the solo section (on the youtube video, starting with the crash hit during "Im just improvising") and place it directly after the solo. On the finished release you will hear that it sounds like Neil hits the crash cymbal on two consecutive bars at this point - this is where the edited drums rejoin the original take.

 

As it seems Geddy got completely lost, I would just copy the bass riff from another time in the song he plays the same riff (I believe it is the same as the verse riff). I would also copy the vocal line "Don't Ask Me" from another time in the song he sings it.

 

Finally, I would 'slip' the synth part so that it is, in effect triggered at the correct time, and also cut off the incorrect triggering of the chorus synth.

 

 

All of this sounds fairly straightforward in theory, but in reality, it is really really difficult to do this without popping or cracking occuring.

 

It sounded pretty good on the VH1 edit.

[Nate1647]

That's literally exactly how they fixed it lol

[Sir Lerxst]

Well, he did ask.

[USB Connector]

I thought that was quite informative. Thanks for posting Sir Lerxst.

[hughes&kettner]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 3 2011, 02:47 PM)

There was a bit of a trainwreck on the performance. Neil missed a cue or something. So they borrowed a piece of music from an earlier part of the song and inserted it over the trainwreck. In the finished edit, you'd never know there was anything done unless you were at that show and remember the miscue.

or perhaps you see it on youtube...

 

[ytserush]

Can't really notice this unless you are paying very close attention (and have seen the raw performance on You Tube.)

 

 

 

Geddy apologizes in writing on the liner notes of the DVD:

 

 

"During the guitar solo of the song Presto there was an unscheduled "brain fart" on my part and so for the sake of continuity (and to save my own face) rather than leave the song out of the show we chose to repair it with a few seconds of my live performance from another show" Geddy

[Nate1647]

QUOTE (Sir Lerxst @ Nov 5 2011, 11:49 AM)

Well, he did ask.

Yea I know, I was complimenting you, cause you nailed it on the head.

 

 

Cool to hear about the note from Geddy too

[Invisible To Telescopic Eye]

I gotta say this thread perfectly exemplifies the mania of fans!!!

 

Here we have a live performance with only the slightest error for a few brief seconds which would have gone right over the heads of all but the most highly educated in discography but to us it is referred to as a trainwreck.

 

Once the trainwreck is identified it's dissected, analyzed, diagnosed, and remedied.

 

Bravo fans, we are the greatest fans in the world!!!

 

 

BTW I agree with Sir Lerxst. Alex seems to not unfazed, Neil seems to be just slightly off and Geddy (as he admits to) is lost. You can actually see him trigger a pedal and then retrigger a different one which I would guess threw Neil off.

[TheBluePhoenix]

[metaldad]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 3 2011, 02:47 PM)

Neil missed a cue or something.

Showing that yet agian, that he Sucks and can't play Jazz

[theredtamasrule]

Really not too bad of a trainwreck. If you didn't have the tune memorized you'd probably never notice, especially during the concert itself. Sucks for the boys that it happened during the dvd recording.

[jonboy71]

QUOTE (Sir Lerxst @ Nov 4 2011, 03:32 PM)

QUOTE (jonboy71 @ Nov 4 2011, 07:02 PM) Would like to know exactly how they fixed this in the officially released version.  Overdubs or did they do a lift and lay so to speak? Speaking as a trainee mix engineer myself (and this is my theory, I don't know what Rich Chycki did;   Generally, from what I can hear, the correct parts were played, just at the wrong times. It sounds however that Alex is the person who stayed in time the best, so I'd use him as the reference.   I'd first sync up the drums to the guitar. This should be fairly simple as Neil is pretty tight. The final fill during the solo section is played one bar too late, so cut and paste it into the correct place one bar previous, then create a copy of the first bar after the solo section (on the youtube video, starting with the crash hit during "Im just improvising") and place it directly after the solo. On the finished release you will hear that it sounds like Neil hits the crash cymbal on two consecutive bars at this point - this is where the edited drums rejoin the original take.   As it seems Geddy got completely lost, I would just copy the bass riff from another time in the song he plays the same riff (I believe it is the same as the verse riff). I would also copy the vocal line "Don't Ask Me" from another time in the song he sings it.   Finally, I would 'slip' the synth part so that it is, in effect triggered at the correct time, and also cut off the incorrect triggering of the chorus synth.     All of this sounds fairly straightforward in theory, but in reality, it is really really difficult to do this without popping or cracking occuring.   It sounded pretty good on the VH1 edit. Great response actually! Very cool that Geddy told us how the fixed it as well. I'm glad they didn't leave the song out. This song was a highlight of the show for me!

[Nate1647]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Nov 7 2011, 10:30 AM)

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Nov 3 2011, 02:47 PM) Neil missed a cue or something. Showing that yet agian, that he Sucks and can't play Jazz Neil didn't miss a beat. He went with what he heard in his monitor...which is what he's supposed to do. Geddy messed up, he even says so on the notes on the DVD.

[garyg7133]

Honestly, I would have LOVED for them to leave it in as is. Think about it, over the years a lot of us have seen RUSH countless times. Most of the time we get near-perfect performances. This tour seemed to have a lot of issues whether technical (still no guitar) or human (have you heard Alex botch the opening riff on freewill in Allentown?). I think it would have just been neat to leave it alone and say "hey, this is a live performance and sometimes it happens".

[32Ford]

QUOTE (garyg7133 @ Nov 9 2011, 08:58 AM)

Honestly, I would have LOVED for them to leave it in as is. Think about it, over the years a lot of us have seen RUSH countless times. Most of the time we get near-perfect performances. This tour seemed to have a lot of issues whether technical (still no guitar) or human (have you heard Alex botch the opening riff on freewill in Allentown?). I think it would have just been neat to leave it alone and say "hey, this is a live performance and sometimes it happens".

I do remember that in Allentown. But nothing can top the Subdivions clunker at Radio City in 2004 with Geddy.

[Itty12]

The edit is quite noticeable. It bugs me now that you people pointed it out to me

[garyg7133]

The radio city botch job is great too, I think the all-time best though was TSOR . I forget where it took place but NP was off in la-la land and kept the beat going during the 2 pauses in the beginning of the song. Priceless.