Time for Alex & Geddy to "assume control"

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Mystic Slipperman @ Jan 27 2011, 12:51 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 26 2011, 05:22 PM) QUOTE (shaun3701 @ Jan 26 2011, 01:28 PM) QUOTE (GeddysMullet @ Jan 26 2011, 03:26 PM) QUOTE (shaun3701 @ Jan 26 2011, 04:18 PM) let me put it this way... Neil preaching about his lack of faith is just as bad if not worse than the fanatical Christians who scream at people telling them they're going to hell. He's on the other end of the spectrum, but he's doing the exact same thing. Both sides are annoying. This is a ridiculous statement. Fanatical Christians who scream about everyone going to Hell are judging others. Neil is expressing his personal feelings, without trying to control or dictate anyone else's values or behaviour.   There is a HUGE difference between telling someone "You are going to hell unless you believe what I believe!" and telling someone "Here is what I believe, take it or leave it." he's telling people "if you believe in God, you're a deluded moron". Pretty much the same thing. I pretty much get this feeling as well.   Really, Goobs? This surprises me, honestly.     Maybe this is better saved for a private convo but I would like to hear how you get this interpretation. Maybe at this point it is better for a private conversation, because if I delineated it out precisely why I get this feeling/impression (although I've talked about it in other threads awhile back when the song came out), all I'll get is all the people telling me I'm deluded or that my interpretation of the song is somehow invalid. What's crystal clear to me obviously isn't going to be to others.   Put simply: Songs like Faithless and BU2B, I find annoying, preachy and depressing, among other things. Obviously others disagree and some even find them uplifting and inspirational. What are ya gonna do? It doesn't stop me from loving any other Rush song, but it does mar (for me) the respective albums (or single) they're on, and I simply wish he'd get off this recent theme. Even songs like The Way The Wind Blows just seem too charged for me to really get into it.   Other times I think he's able to couch things in a way that are open enough to interpretation where things don't bother me, and where the themes are more universally accessible (like in Armor and Sword and Workin' Them Angels, for example). Lately he's been a lot more blatant about his specific and polarizing philosophical views on things, which vary dramatically from my own. That's fine, he's entitled to write about what he wants to, but it doesn't mean I'm going to like it or think it's brilliant just because he's Neil Peart or it's Rush.   To keep with the topic of this thread, I personally think some dramatic change at this point would be good, but as I pointed out before (which was curiously ignored), this all might be a completely moot point anyway. Rush seem to have precious little interest in producing studio material anymore anyway.

[JohnnyBlaze]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 27 2011, 08:20 PM)

QUOTE (Mystic Slipperman @ Jan 27 2011, 12:51 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 26 2011, 05:22 PM) QUOTE (shaun3701 @ Jan 26 2011, 01:28 PM) QUOTE (GeddysMullet @ Jan 26 2011, 03:26 PM) QUOTE (shaun3701 @ Jan 26 2011, 04:18 PM) let me put it this way... Neil preaching about his lack of faith is just as bad if not worse than the fanatical Christians who scream at people telling them they're going to hell. He's on the other end of the spectrum, but he's doing the exact same thing. Both sides are annoying. This is a ridiculous statement. Fanatical Christians who scream about everyone going to Hell are judging others. Neil is expressing his personal feelings, without trying to control or dictate anyone else's values or behaviour.   There is a HUGE difference between telling someone "You are going to hell unless you believe what I believe!" and telling someone "Here is what I believe, take it or leave it." he's telling people "if you believe in God, you're a deluded moron". Pretty much the same thing. I pretty much get this feeling as well.   Really, Goobs? This surprises me, honestly.     Maybe this is better saved for a private convo but I would like to hear how you get this interpretation. Maybe at this point it is better for a private conversation, because if I delineated it out precisely why I get this feeling/impression (although I've talked about it in other threads awhile back when the song came out), all I'll get is all the people telling me I'm deluded or that my interpretation of the song is somehow invalid. What's crystal clear to me obviously isn't going to be to others.   Put simply: Songs like Faithless and BU2B, I find annoying, preachy and depressing, among other things. Obviously others disagree and some even find them uplifting and inspirational. What are ya gonna do? It doesn't stop me from loving any other Rush song, but it does mar (for me) the respective albums (or single) they're on, and I simply wish he'd get off this recent theme. Even songs like The Way The Wind Blows just seem too charged for me to really get into it.   Other times I think he's able to couch things in a way that are open enough to interpretation where things don't bother me, and where the themes are more universally accessible (like in Armor and Sword and Workin' Them Angels, for example). Lately he's been a lot more blatant about his specific and polarizing philosophical views on things, which vary dramatically from my own. That's fine, he's entitled to write about what he wants to, but it doesn't mean I'm going to like it or think it's brilliant just because he's Neil Peart or it's Rush.   To keep with the topic of this thread, I personally think some dramatic change at this point would be good, but as I pointed out before (which was curiously ignored), this all might be a completely moot point anyway. Rush seem to have precious little interest in producing studio material anymore anyway. Holy Moses! What are you guys listening to? I don't even really like much of Peart's lyrics off S & A or the 2 new ones. But to say that it's the same or "pretty much the same" as a fanatical Christian screaming that I'm going to burn in hell is a HELL of a stretch of A LOT OF imagination.

[summer_sky]

QUOTE (analog guy @ Jan 27 2011, 02:12 AM)

I've always interpreted Neil as not necessarily anti-religion, but rather against the idea of exploiting religion, either for personal gain, political clout, or as a means to oppress. One must admit that this kind of thing is rampant in the world. Armor and Sword always comes to mind. Spirituality should be your shield, not your weapon. That's the way I've always interpreted it, anyway. I certainly liked the songs about suburban alienation and artistic integrity much better... those things speak to me the most, but I'm not gonna tell Neil what to write about.

yup

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (JohnnyBlaze @ Jan 27 2011, 04:52 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 27 2011, 08:20 PM) QUOTE (Mystic Slipperman @ Jan 27 2011, 12:51 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 26 2011, 05:22 PM) QUOTE (shaun3701 @ Jan 26 2011, 01:28 PM) QUOTE (GeddysMullet @ Jan 26 2011, 03:26 PM) QUOTE (shaun3701 @ Jan 26 2011, 04:18 PM) let me put it this way... Neil preaching about his lack of faith is just as bad if not worse than the fanatical Christians who scream at people telling them they're going to hell. He's on the other end of the spectrum, but he's doing the exact same thing. Both sides are annoying. This is a ridiculous statement. Fanatical Christians who scream about everyone going to Hell are judging others. Neil is expressing his personal feelings, without trying to control or dictate anyone else's values or behaviour.   There is a HUGE difference between telling someone "You are going to hell unless you believe what I believe!" and telling someone "Here is what I believe, take it or leave it." he's telling people "if you believe in God, you're a deluded moron". Pretty much the same thing. I pretty much get this feeling as well.   Really, Goobs? This surprises me, honestly.     Maybe this is better saved for a private convo but I would like to hear how you get this interpretation. Maybe at this point it is better for a private conversation, because if I delineated it out precisely why I get this feeling/impression (although I've talked about it in other threads awhile back when the song came out), all I'll get is all the people telling me I'm deluded or that my interpretation of the song is somehow invalid. What's crystal clear to me obviously isn't going to be to others.   Put simply: Songs like Faithless and BU2B, I find annoying, preachy and depressing, among other things. Obviously others disagree and some even find them uplifting and inspirational. What are ya gonna do? It doesn't stop me from loving any other Rush song, but it does mar (for me) the respective albums (or single) they're on, and I simply wish he'd get off this recent theme. Even songs like The Way The Wind Blows just seem too charged for me to really get into it.   Other times I think he's able to couch things in a way that are open enough to interpretation where things don't bother me, and where the themes are more universally accessible (like in Armor and Sword and Workin' Them Angels, for example). Lately he's been a lot more blatant about his specific and polarizing philosophical views on things, which vary dramatically from my own. That's fine, he's entitled to write about what he wants to, but it doesn't mean I'm going to like it or think it's brilliant just because he's Neil Peart or it's Rush.   To keep with the topic of this thread, I personally think some dramatic change at this point would be good, but as I pointed out before (which was curiously ignored), this all might be a completely moot point anyway. Rush seem to have precious little interest in producing studio material anymore anyway. Holy Moses! What are you guys listening to? I don't even really like much of Peart's lyrics off S & A or the 2 new ones. But to say that it's the same or "pretty much the same" as a fanatical Christian screaming that I'm going to burn in hell is a HELL of a stretch of A LOT OF imagination. when i said i got the same feeling btw, i was referring to the previous post where someone said "he's telling people "if you believe in God, you're a deluded moron". Pretty much the same thing," not all of what you just said, even though i would say he's been annoyingly preachy.

[ReflectedLight]

i'll give them the benefit of the doubt and wait to listen to the rest of the new album when it comes out, but damn we're not off to a good start.

[GeddysMullet]

I still don't understand how expressing personal beliefs automatically equates to calling people who believe in something different deluded morons.

 

I also don't understand why JUST TWO SONGS have gotten everyone into such a tizzy. Do you people realise that that's all it is? TWO songs? Rush writes TWO songs, three years apart, and suddenly their entire oeuvre is messages of hate and contempt, and vicious designs on the destruction of religious belief. At least, that's what one would think from reading some of these threads.

 

Perspective, anyone?

[slappa_da_bass]

QUOTE (GeddysMullet @ Jan 27 2011, 10:13 AM)

I also don't understand why JUST TWO SONGS have gotten everyone into such a tizzy. Do you people realise that that's all it is? TWO songs? Rush writes TWO songs, three years apart, and suddenly their entire oeuvre is messages of hate and contempt, and vicious designs on the destruction of religious belief.

Yes, that's exactly the outlook expressed by multiple religious fanatics in this thread. You'll get no perspective, only justification for hatred and childishness.

 

Oh well...

[Mara]

QUOTE (GeddysMullet @ Jan 27 2011, 11:13 AM)

I still don't understand how expressing personal beliefs automatically equates to calling people who believe in something different deluded morons. I also don't understand why JUST TWO SONGS have gotten everyone into such a tizzy. Do you people realise that that's all it is? TWO songs? Rush writes TWO songs, three years apart, and suddenly their entire oeuvre is messages of hate and contempt, and vicious designs on the destruction of religious belief. At least, that's what one would think from reading some of these threads. Perspective, anyone?

That was my point earlier. It's less than 1% of Rush's total output. Relax, everyone.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 27 2011, 06:20 AM)

What's crystal clear to me obviously isn't going to be to others.

I don't mean to disregard the rest of your post, but that's a key point right there, and it's one most people refuse to see. Which is why so many arguments about religion are just that -- arguments, and not discussions.

[masque]

for me this is real simple.....i love RUSH....but there are aspects of songs or lyrics that dont turn my crank.

 

when the day comes that the music no longer moves me or the lyrics become so reptitive or against my beliefs that it disturbs my ability to listen and enjoy their music I will move on.

 

i accept and try to be open minded about Neil's point of view on things....it does not mean I agree.....because I dont many times and sometimes I do......but I'm sure he wouldnt agree with all of my points of view but I am hopeful that he would be open minded enough to enjoy my art if he liked it.

 

but at the end of the day there is no way on this planet that one man writing lyrics to a freaking rock song is going to inlfuence or affect my beliefs concerning religion and the existence of God, politics or family matters......that's crazy....be confident and informed enough to make up your own mind.....then you wont be so offended or threatened when someone writes lyrics that oppose your point of view.

[jacklifeson]

I think for me, the content of what he is trying to say in the lyrics isnt as important as the melody of the vocals. What I find frustrating is that they sometimes shoehorn in awkward words that do not sound great in terms of a melody. For example, "pariah dogs and wandering mad men" sounds odd to me, not because of what he is trying to say but that its in a rock song.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jan 27 2011, 05:45 AM)

i'll give them the benefit of the doubt and wait to listen to the rest of the new album when it comes out, but damn we're not off to a good start.

mm...

 

While BU2B sucks, Caravan is one of the best songs they've written, undoubtly in the top 40 best songs of theirs.

[slappa_da_bass]

QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:18 PM)

While my opinion is that BU2B sucks, Caravan is one of the best songs they've written, undoubtly in the top 40 best songs of theirs.

Fixed for the mentally deficient.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:40 AM)

QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:18 PM) While my opinion is that BU2B sucks, Caravan is one of the best songs they've written, undoubtly in the top 40 best songs of theirs. Fixed for the mentally deficient. Right, because one always must confirm when something is their opinion even when it's blatantly obvious? This is the second sentence I'm making in this post.

[slappa_da_bass]

QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:43 PM)

QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:40 AM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:18 PM) While my opinion is that BU2B sucks, Caravan is one of the best songs they've written, undoubtly in the top 40 best songs of theirs. Fixed for the mentally deficient. Right, because one always must confirm when something is their opinion even when it's blatantly obvious? This is the second sentence I'm making in this post. I guess factual statements are so foreign to you, you don't need any kind of lexical distinction.

[Good,bad,andrush]

QUOTE (summer_sky @ Jan 27 2011, 07:34 AM)

QUOTE (analog guy @ Jan 27 2011, 02:12 AM) I've always interpreted Neil as not necessarily anti-religion, but rather against the idea of exploiting religion, either for personal gain, political clout, or as a means to oppress. One must admit that this kind of thing is rampant in the world. Armor and Sword always comes to mind. Spirituality should be your shield, not your weapon. That's the way I've always interpreted it, anyway. I certainly liked the songs about suburban alienation and artistic integrity much better... those things speak to me the most, but I'm not gonna tell Neil what to write about. yup Wonderful post of a wonderful post.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:45 AM)

QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:43 PM) QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:40 AM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:18 PM) While my opinion is that BU2B sucks, Caravan is one of the best songs they've written, undoubtly in the top 40 best songs of theirs. Fixed for the mentally deficient. Right, because one always must confirm when something is their opinion even when it's blatantly obvious? This is the second sentence I'm making in this post. I guess factual statements are so foreign to you, you don't need any kind of lexical distinction. All you do is insult people as soon as they prove you wrong. Leave me be (edited to say: and most others as well), narcissistic bastard.

[GeddysMullet]

QUOTE (Mara @ Jan 27 2011, 12:02 PM)

QUOTE (GeddysMullet @ Jan 27 2011, 11:13 AM) I still don't understand how expressing personal beliefs automatically equates to calling people who believe in something different deluded morons.  I also don't understand why JUST TWO SONGS have gotten everyone into such a tizzy.  Do you people realise that that's all it is?  TWO songs?  Rush writes TWO songs, three years apart, and suddenly their entire oeuvre is messages of hate and contempt, and vicious designs on the destruction of religious belief.  At least, that's what one would think from reading some of these threads. Perspective, anyone? That was my point earlier. It's less than 1% of Rush's total output. Relax, everyone. I read a couple of Neil's books in 2008 and I seem to remember that he discusses his negative feelings about religion quite a bit in his prose writing. I wonder if perhaps some of these threads result from people criticising Neil Peart the lyricist for Rush when their real beef is with Neil Peart the prose author who writes books and a blog that describe his personal thoughts and experiences.   Although you can say that the two are the same person, with the same beliefs, and be absolutely correct, let us not forget that Neil Peart the person and Rush the band are two separate entities. Two songs, three years apart, out of a total of 156 written over 36 years. Two songs, each of which discusses the lyricist's lack of formal religious belief, and neither of which contains any statement whatsoever that people who believe in God are deluded morons. That's hardly a sweeping agenda!

[slappa_da_bass]

QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 02:09 PM)

QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:45 AM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:43 PM) QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:40 AM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:18 PM) While my opinion is that BU2B sucks, Caravan is one of the best songs they've written, undoubtly in the top 40 best songs of theirs. Fixed for the mentally deficient. Right, because one always must confirm when something is their opinion even when it's blatantly obvious? This is the second sentence I'm making in this post. I guess factual statements are so foreign to you, you don't need any kind of lexical distinction. All you do is insult people as soon as they prove you wrong. Leave me be, narcissistic bastard. The irony is delicious.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 12:09 PM)

QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:45 AM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:43 PM) QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:40 AM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:18 PM) While my opinion is that BU2B sucks, Caravan is one of the best songs they've written, undoubtly in the top 40 best songs of theirs. Fixed for the mentally deficient. Right, because one always must confirm when something is their opinion even when it's blatantly obvious? This is the second sentence I'm making in this post. I guess factual statements are so foreign to you, you don't need any kind of lexical distinction. All you do is insult people as soon as they prove you wrong. Leave me be (edited to say: and most others as well), narcissistic bastard. Hate to say it, but   Of course to someone who always is right no matter what, it doesn't matter what you say to them, they'll just continue to laugh at you and know that they're right.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Mara @ Jan 27 2011, 09:02 AM)

QUOTE (GeddysMullet @ Jan 27 2011, 11:13 AM) I still don't understand how expressing personal beliefs automatically equates to calling people who believe in something different deluded morons.  I also don't understand why JUST TWO SONGS have gotten everyone into such a tizzy.  Do you people realise that that's all it is?  TWO songs?  Rush writes TWO songs, three years apart, and suddenly their entire oeuvre is messages of hate and contempt, and vicious designs on the destruction of religious belief.  At least, that's what one would think from reading some of these threads. Perspective, anyone? That was my point earlier. It's less than 1% of Rush's total output. Relax, everyone. As I've said MANY times by now, there was a song on their last album, and a song on their last single (as well as The Way The Wind Blows which is related). It's NOT two random songs spaced decades apart. So yes, it's 2 (or 3) songs out of 156, but it's become a prevalent recent theme of theirs. People don't seem to want to hear that, but there it is.

[slappa_da_bass]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 27 2011, 03:00 PM)

QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 12:09 PM) QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:45 AM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:43 PM) QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:40 AM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:18 PM) While my opinion is that BU2B sucks, Caravan is one of the best songs they've written, undoubtly in the top 40 best songs of theirs. Fixed for the mentally deficient. Right, because one always must confirm when something is their opinion even when it's blatantly obvious? This is the second sentence I'm making in this post. I guess factual statements are so foreign to you, you don't need any kind of lexical distinction. All you do is insult people as soon as they prove you wrong. Leave me be (edited to say: and most others as well), narcissistic bastard. Hate to say it, but   Of course to someone who always is right no matter what, it doesn't matter what you say to them, they'll just continue to laugh at you and know that they're right. It's literally hilarious that you are congratulating him just because he's saying something disparaging to me, no matter how ironic it is, how much of a logical fallacy it is, or how stupid it makes you look.     I this thread   Please, continue! I'm really serious, keep going

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Jan 27 2011, 09:12 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 27 2011, 06:20 AM) What's crystal clear to me obviously isn't going to be to others. I don't mean to disregard the rest of your post, but that's a key point right there, and it's one most people refuse to see. Which is why so many arguments about religion are just that -- arguments, and not discussions. I'm not saying that my views on religion or God or whatever are crystal clear to me and that others will disagree, merely that the MEANING of the song seems crystal clear to me, even though others are choosing to interpret it a different way.

[ReflectedLight]

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 03:03 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 27 2011, 03:00 PM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 12:09 PM) QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:45 AM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:43 PM) QUOTE (slappa_da_bass @ Jan 27 2011, 10:40 AM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jan 27 2011, 01:18 PM) While my opinion is that BU2B sucks, Caravan is one of the best songs they've written, undoubtly in the top 40 best songs of theirs. Fixed for the mentally deficient. Right, because one always must confirm when something is their opinion even when it's blatantly obvious? This is the second sentence I'm making in this post. I guess factual statements are so foreign to you, you don't need any kind of lexical distinction. All you do is insult people as soon as they prove you wrong. Leave me be (edited to say: and most others as well), narcissistic bastard. Hate to say it, but   Of course to someone who always is right no matter what, it doesn't matter what you say to them, they'll just continue to laugh at you and know that they're right. It's literally hilarious that you are congratulating him just because he's saying something disparaging to me, no matter how ironic it is, how much of a logical fallacy it is, or how stupid it makes you look.     I this thread   Please, continue! I'm really serious, keep going     You've made quite an impression here after only 211 posts! You've got a large following of loyal fans, and everybody seems to really like you!