Ayn Rand

[The Snow Dog]

Yeah I was thinking about getting that because I am not sure what epistomology really is, I only know some facts about it but I was thinking about getting a book on all of objectivism.

[Weakly Criminal]

I remember reading AS, FH and Anthem, but I read any of the others I don't remember them. It's been over a decade now and about time for some revisiting of them I think.

 

Here's a bit that impressed me greatly at the time and which seems more timely than ever.

 

"The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws."

-Ayn Rand

 

[GeddyRulz]

I read Anthem as a teenager, and liked it. Like Orwell's 1984, it tells a fictional story set in a totalitarian world, with characters who rebel against society. I think it was that aspect of Rand that Neil Peart responded to; her belief that the individual is more important than any collective. (See the "starman" logo!)

 

But I don't believe Neil buys into Rand's philosophy hook, line, and sinker. He's read her, he's responded to her in a few of his songs, and that's it. Since writing "2112" in 1976, Neil has distanced himself somewhat from Randian philosophies, saying, "The extent of my influence by the writings of Ayn Rand should not be overestimated. I am no one's disciple."

 

Please don't overestimate Rand's influence on Neil Peart and Rush. In writing "2112" (another story of a totalitarian society), Neil wasn't instructing us to all run out and become Objectivist Libertarians. By all means read the books if you like, and if you lean towards Libertarianism, fine, but I don't think Peart wants credit for creating a handful of Randites. Always think for yourself.

 

In response to an earlier (possibly hypothetical) question, Ayn Rand would've despised Rush. Not only because Rush creates their art collectively, but also because Rand wrote an article or two which were very critical of the Woodstock generation and the rock music culture, from which Rush was born.

Edited July 17, 2006 by GeddyRulz

[third hand grace]

On the same note, I THINK I read somewhere that Neil wasn't too into the hippie thing either. That is why I think the tye-dyed rush shirts are very interesting. I love the feeback one, with the man in the peace sign, but I don't really see rush a s a Psychedelic band. I'm a dead/ allman bro fan too.

[Rolinda Bonz]

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jul 17 2006, 12:45 PM)

Ayn Rand would've despised Rush.

I agree with most of your post, but not this. Rand celebrated the synergistic relationships among the forthright businessmen in Atlas, and I think she would have been proud of the men of Rush. Each of the band members stands on his own integrity and talents. Collaborative not collective.

[feelingwithyourskin]

i always thought that hemispheres was neil's reconciliation of the differences he had with objectivism, and rand's works in general. the key balance between heart and mind seemed to point out where he broke philosophy with the objectivist ideal.

[The Snow Dog]

no, nietchze made a non-fiction book on the apollonian and dionysiun theory. I think the title is "The Birth of Tradgedy" but I am not sure. If you look at the wikipedia for the hemispheres album in one of the notes it says what book it is.

[deadwing2112]

I've only read Anthem. Good read though.

[Cygnalschick]

Just finished The Fountainhead today. It has to be one of the best books I've ever read. I can't think of a dull moment in the book where I lost interest. I love the world that Ayn Rand created in the book, and her descriptions of the characters and their ideas are so beautifully put. Now I think I'm ready for Atlas Shrugged. This woman = genius!

[goose]

QUOTE (Sweetmiracle @ Sep 16 2004, 06:23 PM)

Atlas Shrugged is my favorite. It's about what happens when all the bright, talented, motivated people go on strike.....

This has apparently already happened in Hollywood...

[The_Enemy_Within]

I just started The Fountainhead.. I am on page 4! Yippee! Anyway, two of my teachers noticed my book today.. They were like, "Great book!"

[Cygnalschick]

QUOTE (The_Enemy_Within @ Sep 11 2006, 09:04 PM)

I just started The Fountainhead.. I am on page 4! Yippee! Anyway, two of my teachers noticed my book today.. They were like, "Great book!"

Good for you! Let us know how progress is coming.

[mfratt]

First post here, but anyway:

 

You could call me an Ayn Rand nut, even though I have not read all of her books. Actually, its Ayn Rand who got me into Rush. Up until a few years ago, I only knew a few Rush songs (the more popular ones, Freewill, Tom Sawyer, etc). One day, I decided to download the discography and give them a chance. Scrolling through the list, i stared at this one song with an awkward title and a quite long play time. That song was 2112. I put on my headphones, and gave it a listen. Being new to Rush at the time, I had NO idea what Geddy was saying outside of "Discovery." So, I listened again with the lyrics in front of me. Then it hit me: ANTHEM! I had read Anthem the previous year and loved it, and had just realized the parallels between 2112 and Rand's novella.

Curious, I dug through their songs, listening to more and more of them. I came to realize that not only are the lyrics in themselves amazing, but the music is phenomenal too. Within a few months, Rush had shot to the top of my "favorite bands" list, surpassing both Guns n' Roses and Led Zeppelin.

Well, in kind, Rush got me back into Ayn Rand, and I eventually got around to picking up The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. I have been working on Atlas Shrugged for awhile (kind of taking it slow), and I copped out on the Fountainhead and watched the movie (but I do plan on reading the book after I finish AS).

[Kudzu]

I'd just like to reiterate how much I enjoyed Atlas Shrugged when I read it.

[Left_Hemisphere]

I have read most of Rand's works, fiction and nonfiction, and I must say, that she almost ruined my life. While she does espouse some very good values, such as individualism and freedom, I do believe that she goes overboard. She applies rationalism to subjects that were never rational in the first place. In all her writings she never once made the distinction between the rational, the irrational and the nonrational, which would have saved me a lot of pain. Her philosophy operates almost like a cult. If you would like to learn more about the cultic aspects of Objectivism, look up "The Most Unlikely Cult in the World" by Michael Shermer or "The Sociology of the Ayn Rand Cult" by Murray Rothbard (available here http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard23.html)

[GeddyRulz]

I think she goes overboard with most of her beliefs; she's a little hyper for them, but I suppose I'd be the same if I came from communist Russia and anticipated a complete Totalitarian takeover. Her ideas about keeping personal freedoms and maintaining personal and artistic integrity are great, though... and Geddy says it was these ideas that resonated with Rush, not her extremist politics. (Remember that the Rand-influenced "2112" was a personal and artistic rebuff of the record label's cry for something more commercial.)

 

I also think Rush fans have got the wrong idea about her influence on Peart and the band. Neil: "The extent of my influence by the writings of Ayn Rand should not be overestimated. I am no one's disciple." It's more than a little distasteful to me to see so many Rush fans adopting Rand's philosophies because of their love for the band; Neil never intended to turn his audience into a bunch of Rand followers.

 

Keep in mind, too, that Peart wrote "2112" when he was about 23 years old. He was young and naive; I'm sure his beliefs have changed somewhat since then, as has any admiration he ever had for Rand.

Edited February 21, 2007 by GeddyRulz

[H. P. L.]

Good posting, GeddyRulz!!! I totally agree.

[deadwing2112]

QUOTE (H. P. L. @ Feb 21 2007, 09:10 AM)

Good posting, GeddyRulz!!! I totally agree.

[jebren72]

I think Rand had a huge influence on Rush, and probably still does to a certain degree. It's because of Neil using the plot of Anthem in 2112 and crediting Rand as a genius that the mainstream media really hated them for quite awhile. It wasn't until the 90's that alot of media outlets even began to let up on them. Sometimes it's still there in reviews.

Rand is considered the antichrist to most conservatives and liberals. I don't think anyone in Rush follows her but I do think they probably would agree with most of what she said. I don't religiously follow every one of Rands words but she certainly had a huge positive influence on my life. The same can probably be said about them(or at least Neil).

Another thing is that I remember reading somewhere that there were some charges of plagiarism towards Neil for stealing the storyline of Anthem so there may be some hard feelings about that, besides the fact that obviously Neil is not going to be anyones follower. I have no idea if Rand ever heard about 2112 but I seriously doubt she would have approved of it. Especially if they didn't get permission beforehand.

I love Rands books. Atlas is a little longwinded, but the others are solid gold.

[The Snow Dog]

I read Anthem tons of times mostly because I am afraid of reading Fountainhead and not finishing with my english teacher always asking me if I finished it yet.

[Dread Pirate Robert]

Like several other people in this thread, I first encountered Ayn Rand when very young, starting with Anthem. It was in high school, and at that time I thought it was the greatest, most brilliant book I had ever read. I read the Fountainhead soon after that, and some other of Rand's works like Objectivist Epistemology.

 

For people who have never been exposed to such ideas, or never seriously considered them, Rand's works can be a tremendous eye opening/thought producing experience. However, Rand's chief value lies in being a STARTING point for libertarian type thinking. Most "Randians" later progress beyond her, eventually recognizing that she was actually quite a flawed thinker in many ways. Murray Rothbard's book "It usually begins with Ayn Rand" is both amusing and informative in this regard, written from the perspective of a one time "disciple" of Ms. Rand, with illuminating first hand accounts of personal meetings with her in her authoritarian circle of devoted (and quite fanatic) followers.

 

As for the people who never progress beyond Rand and describe themselves as "Objectivists", I agree with some of the comments in this thread that they are practically a religious cult, centered around worship of the Messiah Ayn Rand and her Holy Words.

[Lady April]

There is so much shit about Ayn Rand in the media concerning her writings over the years and being a Rush fan that the controversy over it has done gone and made me buy Anthem at a used book store just to see what the stink is all about.

wish me luck??

[Kudzu]

QUOTE (Dread Pirate Robert @ Mar 5 2007, 02:50 PM)

Like several other people in this thread, I first encountered Ayn Rand when very young, starting with Anthem. It was in high school, and at that time I thought it was the greatest, most brilliant book I had ever read. I read the Fountainhead soon after that, and some other of Rand's works like Objectivist Epistemology. For people who have never been exposed to such ideas, or never seriously considered them, Rand's works can be a tremendous eye opening/thought producing experience. However, Rand's chief value lies in being a STARTING point for libertarian type thinking. Most "Randians" later progress beyond her, eventually recognizing that she was actually quite a flawed thinker in many ways. Murray Rothbard's book "It usually begins with Ayn Rand" is both amusing and informative in this regard, written from the perspective of a one time "disciple" of Ms. Rand, with illuminating first hand accounts of personal meetings with her in her authoritarian circle of devoted (and quite fanatic) followers. As for the people who never progress beyond Rand and describe themselves as "Objectivists", I agree with some of the comments in this thread that they are practically a religious cult, centered around worship of the Messiah Ayn Rand and her Holy Words.

100% agreed.

 

I think that the moral thing to do is be kind, but don't foster dependency - especially one-sided dependency. Put yourself first. Own yourself. But don't just tell everybody else to go f**k themselves just because you don't need them.

 

There's a right way and a wrong way to be "selfish" or "prideful" or "egotistical". Rand outlines the right way pretty well, even if she takes a couple of very thick books to get the point all the way across, but to figure out the wrong way, you can either read God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater and Mother Night by Mr. Kurt Vonnegut or go outside and try being an asshole to somebody Howard Roark-style.

 

I guess the reason I like Atlas Shrugged more than The Fountainhead is because it strikes me as a little more realistic in that it isn't quite as absolutist. In The Fountainhead, Ellsworth Toohey is the epitome of evil and would be considered a psychotic sociopath in the real world; in Atlas Shrugged, the greedy corporate businessmen act like greedy corporate businessmen and the slimy corrupt politicians act like slimy corrupt politicians. It takes the liberty of giving them a bit more of a socialist slant than we typically see over here in the U.S. of A., and the semi-famous plot twist with the disappearing "good guys" is a tad fantastic, but the characters are a lot more human.

[treeduck]

I never really got interested in Ayn Rand. Just because Neil adapted some of her ideas for his lyrics never struck me as a reason to suddenly become an Ayn Rand fan or even an Ayn Rand enthusiast. It would be similar to me suddenly buying a game of Snakes and Arrows and proclaiming it my new favourite game, just because it now has a Rush connection...

[Kudzu]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Apr 22 2007, 01:58 PM)

I never really got interested in Ayn Rand. Just because Neil adapted some of her ideas for his lyrics never struck me as a reason to suddenly become an Ayn Rand fan or even an Ayn Rand enthusiast. It would be similar to me suddenly buying a game of Snakes and Arrows and proclaiming it my new favourite game, just because it now has a Rush connection...

Rush or no Rush, Anthem is a must-read.