What decade does Permanent Waves really belong in?

[Geddy's Soul Patch]

Read some of my previous posts as I've stated that recording is just one part of the creative process...everything up to and including the release is part of the creative process of an album or movie.

None of the creative process was done in the 80s. Making the album available for sale has nothing to do with the creative process

[savagegrace26]

Read some of my previous posts as I've stated that recording is just one part of the creative process...everything up to and including the release is part of the creative process of an album or movie.

None of the creative process was done in the 80s. Making the album available for sale has nothing to do with the creative process

 

I completely disagree...marketing , promoting, releasing are all part of the creative process when public enertainers are dealing with a product intended for public consumption. Do you not think the members of the band themselves have any influence on how these steps turn out? Of course they do. Even if they don't have complete control over it or even if it's indirectly, there are still plans and strategies and ideas that they want to convey. It was no accident that it was released on January 1, 1980 and that decision is in itself part of the creative process.

 

The creative process isn't just limited to musical decisions. Everything involved in producing and releasing a public creative work is part of the creative process.

Edited October 2, 2014 by savagegrace26

[savagegrace26]

And the release of the product is the culmination of that process.

[savagegrace26]

Why do you think there's usually a big deal when a big movie has it's premiere screening with red carpet events and the press and all of that and the principal creators are usually there.

 

Because that is the moment the entire process has been building toward from the beginning: the release of the artistic entertainment "product" and entertainment artists are well aware of that culminating moment.

Edited October 2, 2014 by savagegrace26

[YYZumbi]

This is exactly why I said that their is no objectivity regarding long-time Rush fans.

 

It doesn't matter if Permanent Waves "feels" like a 1970's album.

 

It is a fact that it was officially released on January 1, 1980.

 

You can't debate this fact.

 

It is one of, if not the greatest, record released in 1980. Therefore it is a 1980's album.

 

For the first time in history, I agree with you!

[LedRush]

Read some of my previous posts as I've stated that recording is just one part of the creative process...everything up to and including the release is part of the creative process of an album or movie.

None of the creative process was done in the 80s. Making the album available for sale has nothing to do with the creative process

 

It was no accident that it was released on January 1, 1980.

 

 

Right. It was a Tuesday, and albums are released on Tuesdays (and a Christmas release date doesn't make much sense). Very creative.

[savagegrace26]

Read some of my previous posts as I've stated that recording is just one part of the creative process...everything up to and including the release is part of the creative process of an album or movie.

None of the creative process was done in the 80s. Making the album available for sale has nothing to do with the creative process

 

It was no accident that it was released on January 1, 1980.

 

 

Right. It was a Tuesday, and albums are released on Tuesdays (and a Christmas release date doesn't make much sense). Very creative.

 

Are you sure that's how it worked in 1980?

 

A Farewell to Kings was released on a Thursday

Hemispheres was released on a Sunday

Moving Pictures was released on a Thursday

Exit Stage Left was released on a Thursday

Signals was released on a Thursday

 

Very creative with your research....

[LedRush]

Read some of my previous posts as I've stated that recording is just one part of the creative process...everything up to and including the release is part of the creative process of an album or movie.

None of the creative process was done in the 80s. Making the album available for sale has nothing to do with the creative process

 

It was no accident that it was released on January 1, 1980.

 

 

Right. It was a Tuesday, and albums are released on Tuesdays (and a Christmas release date doesn't make much sense). Very creative.

 

Are you sure that's how it worked in 1980?

 

A Farewell to Kings was released on a Thursday

Hemispheres was released on a Sunday

Moving Pictures was released on a Thursday

Exit Stage Left was released on a Thursday

Signals was released on a Thursday

 

Very creative with your research....

 

So since 1978, no studio releases on anything but a Tuesday or Thursday, with all but 2 released on a Tuesday. The decision on a release date is very creative, indeed.

[savagegrace26]

Read some of my previous posts as I've stated that recording is just one part of the creative process...everything up to and including the release is part of the creative process of an album or movie.

None of the creative process was done in the 80s. Making the album available for sale has nothing to do with the creative process

 

It was no accident that it was released on January 1, 1980.

 

 

Right. It was a Tuesday, and albums are released on Tuesdays (and a Christmas release date doesn't make much sense). Very creative.

 

Are you sure that's how it worked in 1980?

 

A Farewell to Kings was released on a Thursday

Hemispheres was released on a Sunday

Moving Pictures was released on a Thursday

Exit Stage Left was released on a Thursday

Signals was released on a Thursday

 

Very creative with your research....

 

So since 1978, no studio releases on anything but a Tuesday or Thursday, with all but 2 released on a Tuesday. The decision on a release date is very creative, indeed.

 

What the hell are you talking about? I never said picking a specific a day is necessarily "creative".

[Ged Lent's sis]

The problem here is that you are trying to make what is a discussion of perspective and subjective opinion (the motivation of which is to entertain and amuse) into a cold-hard fact statement devoid of differentiation. Fine: released in '80, therefore the eighties.

 

Clearly, the very positing of the original question is based upon something more than release classification. It is not substantially different from the question in the other thread: "Do you think of Permanent Waves as a 70s album or an 80s album?" But given that you mock the idea of saying it "feels like" a decade why bother discussion it?

 

Why bother with the following if you think the answer to that question is a simple fact?

It was recorded 100% in the 70s so that is the correct answer. It's heart is in nu wave though so 77-82 is it's home time period.

 

Recorded? That's not the only factor for producing for an album. A song or album is not finished when it's recorded. There is also mixing, mastering, package/art design, marketing, release, etc.

 

Recording is only one part of the process.

 

Yes, and every other part of that process other than the day you could walk into the store and buy it was done in the seventies, which likely included when a lot of the box-cutters were broken out.

 

The question is specifically what decade does permanent waves really belong in? Not which decades style of music it most stylistically relates to...

"What decade it belongs in" does not equal "what was the release date?" You can argue that point all you want, it doesn't change the FACT that the question seeks multiple interpretations, which include much of what has been said here on this thread, including personal attributions of style. If the style "feels like the seventies" there's good reason for that: it was inspired and created and even partially worked out on the road entirely therein.

 

Read some of my previous posts as I've stated that recording is just one part of the creative process...everything up to and including the release is part of the creative process of an album or movie.

 

In short, there is no right answer to this question, but to restate what I said last in the other aforementioned thread: it's a seventies album released for an eighties audience -or- an eighties album that documents the seventies, so it "belongs" in both decades.

 

One may find this thread "stupid" - but the whole point is for it to be amusing, even if occasionally self-effacing:

 

1. Time Fools

When the effing tribe debates

A long (part cocky) bore, fine!

We'll weave a tale of time-based fools

Spinnin' short-lived fallacy.

Each micromanaged pennant

A complete insanity.

 

A simple kind fear

To reject those not our own.

With the crazy little features

Washing out the decade's seas.

Living like the fools,

They soon forget a seas a sea...

[Ancient Ways]

It was recorded 100% in the 70s so that is the correct answer. It's heart is in nu wave though so 77-82 is it's home time period.

 

Recorded? That's not the only factor for producing for an album. A song or album is not finished when it's recorded. There is also mixing, mastering, package/art design, marketing, release, etc.

 

Recording is only one part of the process.

 

It was recorded, mixed, mastered, had the art design completed in the 70s. It was only released in the 80s. Surely you knew this already? Marketing adds nothing to the music so I ignored that.

[Rutlefan]

Wow, a lot happened since I went to bed. Then again, not really :sarcastic: .

 

To me the question might simply be put this way: does PW belong more to the likes of News of the World and In Through the Out Door, or does it belong more to the likes of Meat is Murder and Head on the Door? To me it sounds more like the former, making it a '70s album. That it used some synths doesn't mean anything as Rush had been using synths for years. Also, because an album has some reggae in it doesn't make it "80s", unless you want to say that D'yer Ma'ker makes 1973's Houses of the Holy an '80s album.

[GeddysMullet]

I think the arguments are compelling on both sides

 

And that you people must really be bored!

[LedRush]

Read some of my previous posts as I've stated that recording is just one part of the creative process...everything up to and including the release is part of the creative process of an album or movie.

None of the creative process was done in the 80s. Making the album available for sale has nothing to do with the creative process

 

It was no accident that it was released on January 1, 1980.

 

 

Right. It was a Tuesday, and albums are released on Tuesdays (and a Christmas release date doesn't make much sense). Very creative.

 

Are you sure that's how it worked in 1980?

 

A Farewell to Kings was released on a Thursday

Hemispheres was released on a Sunday

Moving Pictures was released on a Thursday

Exit Stage Left was released on a Thursday

Signals was released on a Thursday

 

Very creative with your research....

 

So since 1978, no studio releases on anything but a Tuesday or Thursday, with all but 2 released on a Tuesday. The decision on a release date is very creative, indeed.

 

What the hell are you talking about? I never said picking a specific a day is necessarily "creative".

 

http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/89732-what-decade-does-permanent-waves-really-belong-in/page__st__40#entry3299227

[bluefox4000]

 

;) :D

 

Mick

[savagegrace26]

Read some of my previous posts as I've stated that recording is just one part of the creative process...everything up to and including the release is part of the creative process of an album or movie.

None of the creative process was done in the 80s. Making the album available for sale has nothing to do with the creative process

 

It was no accident that it was released on January 1, 1980.

 

 

Right. It was a Tuesday, and albums are released on Tuesdays (and a Christmas release date doesn't make much sense). Very creative.

 

Are you sure that's how it worked in 1980?

 

A Farewell to Kings was released on a Thursday

Hemispheres was released on a Sunday

Moving Pictures was released on a Thursday

Exit Stage Left was released on a Thursday

Signals was released on a Thursday

 

Very creative with your research....

 

So since 1978, no studio releases on anything but a Tuesday or Thursday, with all but 2 released on a Tuesday. The decision on a release date is very creative, indeed.

 

What the hell are you talking about? I never said picking a specific a day is necessarily "creative".

 

http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/89732-what-decade-does-permanent-waves-really-belong-in/page__st__40#entry3299227

 

How do you envision "creativity"?

 

You're taking that word to a different level. Not every decision requires great "creativity" but everything involved with producing an album is definitely part of the process. Releasing the album is the end of that process.

[JARG]

Has it been decided yet?

[Lorraine]

Has it been decided yet?

 

I don't think so. Popcorn?

[toymaker]

I'm waiting patiently for a good explanation of why "releasing" art is "part of the creative process."

 

Actually, I'm not really wating. Or patient. Curious, perhaps.

[savagegrace26]

I'm waiting patiently for a good explanation of why "releasing" art is "part of the creative process."

 

Actually, I'm not really wating. Or patient. Curious, perhaps.

 

It's the culmination of the process. I've already explained it in a couple posts. Go look for it.

 

 

[nicky6]

in alot of ways, 1980 was still considered the late 70's, i dont think the 80's truley found themsleves until late 81 / 1982. with mtv, styles . clothes. ect...

[savagegrace26]

I'm waiting patiently for a good explanation of why "releasing" art is "part of the creative process."

 

Actually, I'm not really wating. Or patient. Curious, perhaps.

 

It's the culmination of the process. I've already explained it in a couple posts. Go look for it.

 

Here:

 

I know this and I've stated it several times in thus thread and Ive specified how the marketing is a big part of the process of the entire release process. I work in the film industry. I'm well aware of the steps and procedures that are necessary to release something to the public. And the "official release" of any entertainment product is pretty much the defining moment for the creator and the consumer. Do you not think that an initial public screening of a film would be a defining moment for the creators as releasing something to the public is pretty much the climax of months or even years of hard work and dedication.

[toymaker]

I'm waiting patiently for a good explanation of why "releasing" art is "part of the creative process."

 

Actually, I'm not really wating. Or patient. Curious, perhaps.

 

It's the culmination of the process. I've already explained it in a couple posts. Go look for it.

 

Here:

 

I know this and I've stated it several times in thus thread and Ive specified how the marketing is a big part of the process of the entire release process. I work in the film industry. I'm well aware of the steps and procedures that are necessary to release something to the public. And the "official release" of any entertainment product is pretty much the defining moment for the creator and the consumer. Do you not think that an initial public screening of a film would be a defining moment for the creators as releasing something to the public is pretty much the climax of months or even years of hard work and dedication.

 

I blame myself. It's not you; it's my own ability to understand. I'm still not seeing it. The album is written, recorded, mixed, mastered, pressed, and packaged in a delightful cover sleeve. The band can sit back for a few weeks and recharge. The album is promoted and released to record stores, and band and management hope that it will sell well, recoup their expenses, make legions of fans happy and make some new converts. To me, any creative energy involved at that stage is, perhaps, designing promotional posters, doing some interviews and selecting hopeful singles. I think it's a fundamentally different kind of creative energy. However, I don't work in the industry, so it's tough for an outsider like me to understand what folks like you consider to be part of the creative process. You also talk about a culmination or climax. Those words are definitely associated with a creative process (nudge nudge), but to me, that culmination would occur when the band sits on a couch in a mastering studio and listens to their masterpiece played back in its entirety, or when the band finally sees what the album cover is going to look like. These things would already have occurred before the album's release. But, as I said, I have a different perspective, as others do. Potato potahto.

[Rutlefan]

in alot of ways, 1980 was still considered the late 70's, i dont think the 80's truley found themsleves until late 81 / 1982. with mtv, styles . clothes. ect...

 

My experience exactly. I think for me the '80s (musically speaking) started when in 1982 I saw the fairly new MTV started showing videos like Hungry Like the Wolf and (Ultravox's) Vienna. I knew then that a new era was underway. Until then, the first couple years of the '80s seemed little different from the last couple years of the '70s. The Police, Talking Heads, The Clash, The B-52s, etc. all started in the late '70s. 1980/81 didn't feel like anything new compared to what had been going on for a few years. 1982 and on did though.

 

And of course this is consistent with Rush releasing Signals in '82. I think '79-'81 is a music period fairly distinct from what came before it and what came after, just like PeW and MP kind of stand alone together stylistically. Of course, broadly speaking there's a lot of overlap as most music is evolution; it's rare that some bombshell album like Sgt Peppers, Nevermind the Bullocks, or Nevemind, basically redirects the industry. Of course even these had their precursors: Pet Sounds, The Stooges, Pixies, just like PeW looks back while looking forward.

[savagegrace26]

I'm waiting patiently for a good explanation of why "releasing" art is "part of the creative process."

 

Actually, I'm not really wating. Or patient. Curious, perhaps.

 

It's the culmination of the process. I've already explained it in a couple posts. Go look for it.

 

Here:

 

I know this and I've stated it several times in thus thread and Ive specified how the marketing is a big part of the process of the entire release process. I work in the film industry. I'm well aware of the steps and procedures that are necessary to release something to the public. And the "official release" of any entertainment product is pretty much the defining moment for the creator and the consumer. Do you not think that an initial public screening of a film would be a defining moment for the creators as releasing something to the public is pretty much the climax of months or even years of hard work and dedication.

 

I blame myself. It's not you; it's my own ability to understand. I'm still not seeing it. The album is written, recorded, mixed, mastered, pressed, and packaged in a delightful cover sleeve. The band can sit back for a few weeks and recharge. The album is promoted and released to record stores, and band and management hope that it will sell well, recoup their expenses, make legions of fans happy and make some new converts. To me, any creative energy involved at that stage is, perhaps, designing promotional posters, doing some interviews and selecting hopeful singles. I think it's a fundamentally different kind of creative energy. However, I don't work in the industry, so it's tough for an outsider like me to understand what folks like you consider to be part of the creative process. You also talk about a culmination or climax. Those words are definitely associated with a creative process (nudge nudge), but to me, that culmination would occur when the band sits on a couch in a mastering studio and listens to their masterpiece played back in its entirety, or when the band finally sees what the album cover is going to look like. These things would already have occurred before the album's release. But, as I said, I have a different perspective, as others do. Potato potahto.

 

I'll respond more in depth later but one can also argue that the "culmination" is when the band actually performs the songs from the album live on stage (and no this doesn't mean the prerelease versions). Entertainment artists (which Rush are) don't create art in a vacuum, they are creating it for people to listen to or watch and experience and respond to.