What decade does Permanent Waves really belong in?

[bathory]

and keep in mind, savage, I said it's an 80s album! but I can understand another person's opinion.

[Narps]

f**k it, I'll say it's subjective

 

things like "it feeeels 70s" and "it feeeeels 80s" are up to the listener

 

to me, its like a mix of both. they're not tryin to sound like zep and yes as much anymore, but the influence is still there. but they've discovered talking heads, the police, a little beyond the normal 70s dad rock stuff.

 

I'm still goin with 80s

 

at least we can all agree that its a good album

Disagree but like your argument anyway. It sure felt like the 70's still when I grabbed it from the bin on Jan 1. I should have checked the calender closer. A feeling just like you said... :)

 

yeah, I'd imagine jan 1 1980 still felt like the 70s haha. I just think that TSOR was their way of saying out with the old (sorta) and in with the new! I'm not friends with the guys in the band or anything, but I took it as a statement and felt like the jan 1 release date was intentional. sorta like, this is rush for the 1980s and while all the bands we tour with fade into obscurity or turn into nostalgia acts, that aint gonna f*ckin happen to us! if that makes sense.

 

now we can debate whether or not presto's 80s or 90s! it was pretty close to 1990...I think we could get 9 or 10 pages out of that topic

We can do that. At least I know the album now unlike when I arrived at the forum and had never heard it once. I actually like it too....

 

it's a good record, yeah. the production's got no nuts but there are some real standouts on it. I listened to it from start to finish a few months back (which I hadn't done since 9th or 10th grade) and was surprised to enjoy every song for the first time. I wish they'd play more from it live because the songs sound waaaay more rock n roll live. plus, geddy can sing anything on it.

It would be like what ATWAS did for Lakeside Park and In The End. Balls.....

 

I actually like in the end on FBN and ATWAS about equally, but I definitely agree on lakeside park (which I still loved on COS but ATWAS turns it up to 11)

You have to understand I heard all of those songs first live and many times over before the studio versions. It still effects me when I hear the studio stuff....

[laughedatbytime]

Presto is '80s chronologically but '90s physiologically.

 

I don't understand why people think specific dates are arbitrary.

 

 

Do you know what's arbitrary? Saying something "feels" like the 70's or 80's or 90's. What the hell does that even mean?

 

Dates define specific periods when we are referring to 80's, 90's etc. Nothing else.

 

There is blend over of every musical style between decades. This entire discussion is stupid.

There was still disco in the 80's.

 

For such a stupid discussion, you've made more posts in it than anyone else.

 

I'm trying to erode the stupidity...

 

Now Presto is a 90's album?

 

Rush's stylistic shifts doesn't dictate actual calendar dates.

Presto is a 50s album.

 

The atomic number for tin is 50.

 

QED

[savagegrace26]

and keep in mind, savage, I said it's an 80s album! but I can understand another person's opinion.

 

This isn't about opinion.

 

It's cold hard brutal death-like facts.

[bathory]

f**k it, I'll say it's subjective

 

things like "it feeeels 70s" and "it feeeeels 80s" are up to the listener

 

to me, its like a mix of both. they're not tryin to sound like zep and yes as much anymore, but the influence is still there. but they've discovered talking heads, the police, a little beyond the normal 70s dad rock stuff.

 

I'm still goin with 80s

 

at least we can all agree that its a good album

Disagree but like your argument anyway. It sure felt like the 70's still when I grabbed it from the bin on Jan 1. I should have checked the calender closer. A feeling just like you said... :)

 

yeah, I'd imagine jan 1 1980 still felt like the 70s haha. I just think that TSOR was their way of saying out with the old (sorta) and in with the new! I'm not friends with the guys in the band or anything, but I took it as a statement and felt like the jan 1 release date was intentional. sorta like, this is rush for the 1980s and while all the bands we tour with fade into obscurity or turn into nostalgia acts, that aint gonna f*ckin happen to us! if that makes sense.

 

now we can debate whether or not presto's 80s or 90s! it was pretty close to 1990...I think we could get 9 or 10 pages out of that topic

We can do that. At least I know the album now unlike when I arrived at the forum and had never heard it once. I actually like it too....

 

it's a good record, yeah. the production's got no nuts but there are some real standouts on it. I listened to it from start to finish a few months back (which I hadn't done since 9th or 10th grade) and was surprised to enjoy every song for the first time. I wish they'd play more from it live because the songs sound waaaay more rock n roll live. plus, geddy can sing anything on it.

It would be like what ATWAS did for Lakeside Park and In The End. Balls.....

 

I actually like in the end on FBN and ATWAS about equally, but I definitely agree on lakeside park (which I still loved on COS but ATWAS turns it up to 11)

You have to understand I heard all of those songs first live and many times over before the studio versions. It still effects me when I hear the studio stuff....

 

true! I'm the same way in some cases. I'm like that about UFO's rock bottom and priest's exciter. studio just doesnt cut it when you can pull out strangers or unleashed in the east

[savagegrace26]

So what does each decade "feel" like to you?

 

Describe:

50's

60's

70's

80's

90's

00's

10's

 

Is there any difference at all between the 00's and 10's? Feels like one long block to me..

 

Should this be a new thread?

[Narps]

Presto is '80s chronologically but '90s physiologically.

 

I don't understand why people think specific dates are arbitrary.

 

 

Do you know what's arbitrary? Saying something "feels" like the 70's or 80's or 90's. What the hell does that even mean?

 

Dates define specific periods when we are referring to 80's, 90's etc. Nothing else.

 

There is blend over of every musical style between decades. This entire discussion is stupid.

There was still disco in the 80's.

 

For such a stupid discussion, you've made more posts in it than anyone else.

 

I'm trying to erode the stupidity...

 

Now Presto is a 90's album?

 

Rush's stylistic shifts doesn't dictate actual calendar dates.

Presto is a 50s album.

 

The atomic number for tin is 50.

 

QED

:syrinx: A drive by.....

[savagegrace26]

Is it 2014? It "feels like" 1998 to me...

[troutman]

The somewhat brighter production and shorter songs may make it seem like 80s Rush, but it doesn't have the cheeseball 80s synth sound. It feels 70sish to me, but I also think it's kind of a threshold thing - definitely looking back and looking forward.

 

i think it is half and half. Some of the songs seem to not belong on that particular album. Jacob's Ladder should have been swapped with Closer To The Heart. It fits more on AFTK than CTTH does.

 

 

 

 

No can do. :tsk: :P

[Lorraine]

As I was eating my soup, I was thinking about Permanent Waves and this discussion.

 

It doesn't belong in the seventies. Although it has a few seventies' sounding songs, it is an album that is leading in another musical direction for Rush. The non-seventies sounding songs (Natural Science, TSOR etc.) bear no musical resemblance to anything they did prior to Permanent Waves.

 

I would, therefore, consider the album a lead-in to their eighties music. That's probably why they waited and released it on January 1, 1980.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Lorraine

[savagegrace26]

As I was eating my soup, I was thinking about Permanent Waves and this discussion.

 

It doesn't belong in the seventies. Although it has a few seventies' sounding songs, it is an album that is leading in another musical direction for Rush. The non-seventies sounding songs (Natural Science, TSOR etc.) bear no musical resemblance to anything they did prior to Permanent Waves.

 

I would, therefore, consider the album a lead-in to their eighties music. That's probably why they waited and released it on January 1, 1980.

 

That's very nice. But it's an 80's album whether you think it is or not :)

 

And yes, they most likely released it on that date as some kind of statement, but no one (including the band) could have predicted what musical directions they would venture into in the 80's.

[GeddysMullet]

It's perfect exactly where it is, gracefully straddling the decades and ever the subject of useless debate among fans!

[Rutlefan]

Why this presumption that to be a "70s" album it has to sound like Led Zeppelin or King Crimson? The late '70s had a lot of varied and "new" sounds that had nothing to do with prog or blues rock. When P Waves came out, it didn't sound like Rush had lept to a new decade, they were simply evolving like most other bands. It's a departure from Hemispheres but so what, almost anything would be. It's still very AOR and felt like what had been going on elsewhere in the post-disco era. The first couple years of the '80s felt a lot like the last couple years of the '70s actually. Rush didn't sound "different" to me until Signals. That to me was their first '80s album.

 

As far as being hung up on Jan 1, 1980, as if at the time anyone cared or thought it significant, technically, 1980 was still part of the 197th decade AD; the 180th decade didn't begin until Jan 1, 1981. But who cares, doesn't mean anything, just like Jan 1, 1980 doesn't mean anything. I had a new zit on Jan 1, 1980. I don't remember thinking it might be different because it was an "80s" zit. It looked the same as the Dec 28, 1979 zit really.

[EagleMoon]

I'm not sure I understand the question. If it was created in the 70s, why wouldn't that make it a product of that decade?

 

http://www.therushfo...n/#entry3299129

 

Yes and...? It doesn't really matter when the public heard it. What matters is when it was created. It's their music not ours. If an artist paints a painting in December of one year but doesn't put it up in a gallery until January of the next year that doesn't change the fact that it was created in the previous year.

 

Eh, you have a good response there... :/

 

I don't know.

 

Movies and music are different to me. It's dependent on when they are publicly released because they are being produced mainly for public consumption.

 

Paintings are more personal...

 

Eh. You have a good point :)

 

The real question is when is the work conisdered "finished"? Usually it's not until actual release.

 

I really like your response by the way :) :) :)

 

Thanks. :-) I guess after being in the business for a lot of years I am aware of what belongs to the artist and what belongs to the public. Rushs music for example is their own property even though their distribution rights have been given to the record companies. So when they created it would have to be when it became a product. It was influenced by what came before, which would make it a product of the 70s. The 80s hadn't happened yet, so it can't be a product of that decade.

:goodone: Deep....

 

Read my post above. For a public artist the release date and marketing is just as much a creative factor as the writing and recording. They are releasing a "product". Sorry, I disagree with you.

 

Of course you do. As if that is a surprise.

[Rutlefan]

Seriously though, without being snide, what was going on musically around the transition from the '70s to the '80s doesn't really lend itself to a clear demarcation at 1979/1980. To me, 1981 has more to do with 1979 than it does with 1983 (broadly speaking, not just considering Rush). But if I had to say, PW and MP are AOR albums, making them "70s" albums. "80s" music was generally built around singles and videos.

[Geddy's Soul Patch]

It was recorded 100% in the 70s so that is the correct answer. It's heart is in nu wave though so 77-82 is it's home time period.

 

Recorded? That's not the only factor for producing for an album. A song or album is not finished when it's recorded. There is also mixing, mastering, package/art design, marketing, release, etc.

 

Recording is only one part of the process.

Literally everything except for the release happened in the seventies

[bluefox4000]

it was heard.......by the public......in 1980. To me.....80's record.

 

Mick

[savagegrace26]

It was recorded 100% in the 70s so that is the correct answer. It's heart is in nu wave though so 77-82 is it's home time period.

 

Recorded? That's not the only factor for producing for an album. A song or album is not finished when it's recorded. There is also mixing, mastering, package/art design, marketing, release, etc.

 

Recording is only one part of the process.

Literally everything except for the release happened in the seventies

 

Everything except for people listening to it....that's a pretty astronomical factor right there...

 

If an album exists and no one hears it....then does it exist?

 

No one listened to the record in the 70's....

Edited October 2, 2014 by savagegrace26

[bluefox4000]

It was recorded 100% in the 70s so that is the correct answer. It's heart is in nu wave though so 77-82 is it's home time period.

 

Recorded? That's not the only factor for producing for an album. A song or album is not finished when it's recorded. There is also mixing, mastering, package/art design, marketing, release, etc.

 

Recording is only one part of the process.

Literally everything except for the release happened in the seventies

 

Everything except for people listening to it....that's a pretty astronomical factor right there...

 

If an album exists and no one hears it....then does it exist?

 

No one listened to the record in the 70's....

 

Right if people heard it in release year of 1980......sorry it's to me an 80's album.

 

Mick

Edited October 2, 2014 by bluefox4000

[savagegrace26]

So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's...

 

The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now...

 

How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please...

[Geddy's Soul Patch]

So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's...

 

The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now...

 

How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please...

That's not what is being asked. The art was created by the artists in the 1970s. If nobody ever heard if except for Alex, Geddy, Neil, and Terry Brown, It would still be an album of the 1970s. When the public heard it dictates nothing

[Narps]

So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's...

 

The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now...

 

How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please...

That's not what is being asked. The art was created by the artists in the 1970s. If nobody ever heard if except for Alex, Geddy, Neil, and Terry Brown, It would still be an album of the 1970s. When the public heard it dictates nothing

Good luck GSP. I give up.... :D

[toymaker]

Did they begin loading boxes of the album onto trucks to be shipped to retail stores at 11:59:59 on Dec. 31, 1979, or did they start at 12:01 on Jan. 1, 1980?

 

Why do I feel like I'm growing old really fast reading this debate?

[troutman]

:givebeer: :givebeer: :givebeer: :givebeer: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

[savagegrace26]

So some people are claiming it's a 70's album yet no one ever enjoyed it in the 70's...

 

The absurdity of this is really starting to hit me now...

 

How many have great memories of listening to and loving Permanent Waves in the 1970's? A show of hands please...

That's not what is being asked. The art was created by the artists in the 1970s. If nobody ever heard if except for Alex, Geddy, Neil, and Terry Brown, It would still be an album of the 1970s. When the public heard it dictates nothing

 

When the public actually hears it dictates everything. When the album is ready to be sold to consumers dictates everything. When it is offically released dictates everything. The album as a complete entity was not officially available until January 1, 1980. There was no album available until this date. Once the release actually happens then there is an official Permanent Waves album.

 

What if they just suddenly decided never to release it then and destroyed every known copy before it reached the market? There would be no album whatsoever.

 

Before January 1, 1980 it was a potential album prototype. It didn't become an officially available album until January 1, 1980 when people could actually have it in their hands.

 

 

By your reasoning we have to reclassify Moving Pictures as a 1980 album because it was recorded October - November 1980 even though it was released on February 12, 1981. Where do you draw the line?

Edited October 2, 2014 by savagegrace26