Rush Clocky - mastering/mixing/production

[GUP1771]

After playing the CD more frequently in the car, which I typically blast music while driving, it is a bit rough on the ears. The Taurus pedals aren't friendly to my speakers at all, and even messing with the EQ in the car, I still can't get a decent sound. (I've never been very good at that stuff.) Kind of annoying considering the singles of Caravan and BU2B didn't have this type of problem. I still think the music sounds amazing in other formats that I use, but in the car, it's pretty bad. I'm not expected headphone quality, but at least something that is listenable.

 

So previous statements I've made that the mastering is okay, I was wrong. It's more so bad than okay.

 

Everything besides VT and CA sounds great in my car.

[MarKo]

QUOTE (GUP1771 @ Jul 20 2012, 10:53 PM)

After playing the CD more frequently in the car, which I typically blast music while driving, it is a bit rough on the ears. The Taurus pedals aren't friendly to my speakers at all, and even messing with the EQ in the car, I still can't get a decent sound. (I've never been very good at that stuff.) Kind of annoying considering the singles of Caravan and BU2B didn't have this type of problem. I still think the music sounds amazing in other formats that I use, but in the car, it's pretty bad. I'm not expected headphone quality, but at least something that is listenable. So previous statements I've made that the mastering is okay, I was wrong. It's more so bad than okay. Everything besides VT and CA sounds great in my car.

Yep.....agree....

Maybe car speakers are not what they used to be but in general this

album really really blows the speakers out of shape....

 

That's where I listen to most of my music........ so it's frustrating.

 

No matter what some people say, it's a fact, it needs sorting

 

 

[Mystic Rythm]

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 12 2012, 10:07 PM)

QUOTE (Mystic Rythm @ Jul 12 2012, 09:58 PM) Too many songs in the last 3 albums where I find myself straining to hear Geddy.  He seems to be buried in the music to much.  so basically you're saying you want a more stripped down sound? i think that's what alex said they were aiming for with this album. That's exactly what I'm saying, or better yet,for me it's not as stripped down as I was expecting. Mixing probably did have allot to do with it. I do like the album and like all Rush songs they will grow on me.

[They Bow Defeated]

QUOTE (MarKo @ Jul 21 2012, 04:30 PM)

QUOTE (GUP1771 @ Jul 20 2012, 10:53 PM) After playing the CD more frequently in the car, which I typically blast music while driving, it is a bit rough on the ears. The Taurus pedals aren't friendly to my speakers at all, and even messing with the EQ in the car, I still can't get a decent sound. (I've never been very good at that stuff.) Kind of annoying considering the singles of Caravan and BU2B didn't have this type of problem. I still think the music sounds amazing in other formats that I use, but in the car, it's pretty bad. I'm not expected headphone quality, but at least something that is listenable. So previous statements I've made that the mastering is okay, I was wrong. It's more so bad than okay. Everything besides VT and CA sounds great in my car. Yep.....agree.... Maybe car speakers are not what they used to be but in general this album really really blows the speakers out of shape....   That's where I listen to most of my music........ so it's frustrating.   No matter what some people say, it's a fact, it needs sorting Yeah, I have the same problem. It sounds best for me on my $20 Sony sound-isolating earbuds, pretty good on my $99 Sennheiser headphones, and worst on my $800 car stereo. Go figure!   The more I listen, the more I think the main problem is just over compression. To me, everything sounds squeezed together into a very narrow dynamic range and there's not enough volume separation between sections of songs: for example, the verses and choruses of Halo Effect, which should have more of a contrast.   I also think certain songs are much worse than others, mix-wise. The title track has by far the worst mix, just muddy as hell, which sucks because it's probably my favorite tune. Headlong Flight, on the other hand, sounds fantastic.   Very strange...

[Priest of Syrinx]

Yeah, I agree that the mix is over-compressed, too much instrumentation fighting for the same sonic stage, the instruments don't enough room to breathe. The vinyl remedies this a little bit.

 

Headlong Flight rocks!

[Ged Lent's sis]

QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jul 18 2012, 06:22 PM)

Steven Wilson should remaster Vapor Trails and then work on every future Rush album. If only there were some way to force him..

I picture Malcolm McDowell's most famous scene in film, but instead SW's ears being propped open with toothpicks.

 

The album could be called Clockwork Orange Angels

[Ged Lent's sis]

QUOTE (pedro2112 @ Jul 15 2012, 10:53 PM)

QUOTE (Ged Lent's sis @ Jul 15 2012, 05:51 PM) The only producer with a perfect record with RUSH is, well, I think we know the answer to that question The sucky sounding Signals says, "Hello." I hear you. It would qualify as the muddiest Terry Brown production. But still, there is separation there. And it doesn't hurt my brain.

[ytserush]

QUOTE (Priest of Syrinx @ Jul 25 2012, 08:13 PM)

Yeah, I agree that the mix is over-compressed, too much instrumentation fighting for the same sonic stage, the instruments don't enough room to breathe. The vinyl remedies this a little bit. Headlong Flight rocks!

Bingo!

 

And yet it still kicks my ass!

[av450]

QUOTE (ytserush @ Sep 7 2012, 05:03 PM)

QUOTE (Priest of Syrinx @ Jul 25 2012, 08:13 PM) Yeah, I agree that the mix is over-compressed, too much instrumentation fighting for the same sonic stage, the instruments don't enough room to breathe.  The vinyl remedies this a little bit. Headlong Flight rocks! Bingo!   And yet it still kicks my ass! bump of peace

[tommyali]

QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jul 19 2012, 11:02 AM)

The so-called audiophile experts on this site don't know the difference between analogy and digital.

Analogy? Really?

Analog and analogy have nothing to do with one another.

[cmaj7flat5]

I hate to be part of the negativity, but the first thing I thought when I listened to the first two tracks on CA was "Why don't I like them as much as I did before?" Then I went back to my "Caravan single" mp3s and lo and behold, there it was. CA was mastered with much more of a "v-curve" in the EQ than the single, and for me a lot of the punch and definition were taken out of Caravan and BU2B. I'm aware that this was done in the spirit of "mastering for iTunes" and to make sure that the tracks sound good on people's laptops and iPhones and everything, but c'mon - do Rush fans really listen to their albums through their laptop speakers?

 

[Grover]

QUOTE (MarKo @ Jul 13 2012, 03:09 AM)

QUOTE (jnoble @ Jul 13 2012, 03:06 AM) And the messed up part of all of this is that Ged and Alex both specifically said that the last couple of albums had too many layers and overdubs and CA was going to get away from that. Way to follow through, guys Agree 100%   Alex seemed really determined to pare back his sound in those interviews.   I think we have to look at the "professionals" who Rush pay to craft the sound of the album. They've done a poor job..... Simple as.   Music and sound are analog at source and the human ear hears in analog. The increasing tendency to push natural waveforms through digital processing..... Filling the sound spectrum artificially....cutting and pasting etc....is what's creating this mess..... Along with the iPod generation.   Back to magnetic tape and vinyl.....!!!... That's what I say.   Can't wait for the live versions of these songs Got nothing to do with sound and ears being analog. All energy is quantized and the way our ears and brain process sound is not continuos (eyes too). I find CDs to have excellent capabilities but they are not being utilized properly. 96khz and 24 bit is better... but 44.1khz and 16 bit is quite good and better than all the types of distortion that you get in analog (hiss, rumble, wow, flutter, dust, scratches, tape saturation). I still have a good turntable, and I recall the ritual of cleaning the record, using a static gun, cleaning the stylus, and tinkering to try and get a bit more from the sound... but I prefer digital if it is done right. With digital, you get none of these, but harsh waveform clipping if you exceed the loudest allowable signal on a track.   Digital has made it easy to add tracks and to cut and paste various takes together. Easy to do, hard to do well.   For a band that hardly gets radio play, it is insane to play the loudness war game. The dynamic range possible on a CD is huge, compared to what is being used. Stop with the compression!

[Tony R]

QUOTE (ThinkingBig @ Jul 19 2012, 01:37 PM)

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Jul 12 2012, 09:57 PM) Has it ever occurred to anyone that it might not be the fault of the producer or engineer for whatever you feel is wrong with this record? Nothing is wrong with this record.   The so-called audiophile experts on this site don't know the difference between analogy and digital. They think vinyl is mastered like a CD.   Some people just need to feel important so they run their mouths and other who don't know any better buy into it.   THIS.   RECORD.     ROCKS.     Period. Nail missed, thumb sore.   If you prefer your tenderloin of beef smothered in ketchup good for you, but some of us have more refined tastes.

[Pound of Obscure]

QUOTE (tommyali @ Sep 10 2012, 10:22 PM)

QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Jul 19 2012, 11:02 AM) The so-called audiophile experts on this site don't know the difference between analogy and digital. Analogy? Really? Analog and analogy have nothing to do with one another. That's not my quote by the way.

[The Cat 3]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Sep 15 2012, 12:26 PM)

QUOTE (ThinkingBig @ Jul 19 2012, 01:37 PM) QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Jul 12 2012, 09:57 PM) Has it ever occurred to anyone that it might not be the fault of the producer or engineer for whatever you feel is wrong with this record? Nothing is wrong with this record.   The so-called audiophile experts on this site don't know the difference between analogy and digital. They think vinyl is mastered like a CD.   Some people just need to feel important so they run their mouths and other who don't know any better buy into it.   THIS.   RECORD.     ROCKS.     Period. Nail missed, thumb sore.   If you prefer your tenderloin of beef smothered in ketchup good for you, but some of us have more refined tastes. Yeah, what he said!

[softfilter]

QUOTE (ReGorLaTroy @ Sep 15 2012, 02:49 PM)

QUOTE (Tony R @ Sep 15 2012, 12:26 PM) QUOTE (ThinkingBig @ Jul 19 2012, 01:37 PM) QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Jul 12 2012, 09:57 PM) Has it ever occurred to anyone that it might not be the fault of the producer or engineer for whatever you feel is wrong with this record? Nothing is wrong with this record.   The so-called audiophile experts on this site don't know the difference between analogy and digital. They think vinyl is mastered like a CD.   Some people just need to feel important so they run their mouths and other who don't know any better buy into it.   THIS.   RECORD.     ROCKS.     Period. Nail missed, thumb sore.   If you prefer your tenderloin of beef smothered in ketchup good for you, but some of us have more refined tastes. Yeah, what he said! Do you have any Grey Poupon?

[Astroboy2112]

If by more refined tastes you mean outdated tastes then I agree. It's hard to make sense of the sound of a contemporary record if you only listen to 70's and 80's records just like it can be hard for a 17 year old who only listens to Linkin Park, Slipknot, Avenged Sevenfold, etc to listen and make sense of a 80's record.

[Mushfan]

QUOTE (Tombstone Mountain @ Jul 13 2012, 10:38 AM)

QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 13 2012, 10:32 AM) QUOTE (Tombstone Mountain @ Jul 13 2012, 10:47 AM) QUOTE (Lerxster @ Jul 13 2012, 09:45 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jul 13 2012, 09:34 AM) QUOTE (Tombstone Mountain @ Jul 13 2012, 09:33 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jul 13 2012, 09:30 AM) QUOTE (Tombstone Mountain @ Jul 13 2012, 09:27 AM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 13 2012, 09:26 AM) QUOTE (Tombstone Mountain @ Jul 13 2012, 10:02 AM) I hope the band produces every album from here to eternity with Nick--he got the best out of them!!! What did collins bring to the albums he produced? what quality does he bring out of Rush that makes his productions superior to Nicks? It is almost universally agreed that CA is the bands best release since the early 80's...why is that? Nick had A LOT to do with it. Just ask the boys. Anyway...someone tell me about Collins and his upside please He brought Caveman to Rush. OK, but what did Collins do for the band??? Caveman isone thing. what does Collins do that is so special??? He helped creat really crisp and dynamic sounding albums, Rush's best sounding albums IMO. CA is a muddy mess. The drums sound completely dead in it. Rush deserves better than this. Nick is a hack producer who only gets hired by garbage mainstream rock bands.   Why do some of the more creative and revered bands out there not work with stock producers like him? Hmmm I wonder... sorry sir, you are in the wee minority on this. everyone else in the world is wrong and your right? Best album since the early 80's is THE consensus.   Anyway...have a nice day dude!       Utterly Flawless     Um, have you read the threads on this board about the sound of this album? Yeah pretty sure Im not alone. You're too busy with your joke review threads to even realize how many people dont love the mix of this album. I have, and most folks don't have a beef with it. A lot wish it sounded better, sure, but it's not a major issue with most regular posters here. thank you lerxter. it is a minority of people who have a problem with sound. I think the CD sounds awesome in a car, a boom box, or a $3000 stereo! I think you are very lucky to be able to either A.) ignore the poor mix B.) not know the difference.   It doesn't stand out to me. Now, admittedly I am no audiophile though I have a deep respect for the quality of sound in music and film. I just don't get it. People in my office who listen to this music with me don't understand the hubbub as well.   Give me an example of where this music falls short in your ears please. In laymans terms if you don't mind.       Example: The title track...listen to how Peart's snare disappears during the first chorus. It gets totally buried and then slowly comes back up front.   There's no way this should have been left like this. It tells me that the person mixing it (and the band) didn't pay full attention when listening to every song before it was sent off to mastering. I heard that Nick was mixing another album during this time also..which could explain the mistakes.   Still an awesome album though!!!

[ohboyiusedtolovekiss]

folks, I just joined up and I'm sure this has been covered, but what I hear from you guys that take offense to anyone complaining about the overly compressed noise that this cd is, seem to suggest that we don't love Rush.

Gimme a colossal break.

If Moving pictures had been released during the 'loudness war' it would've had all the emotion ripped out of it just like this cd...

.I LIKE space between the instruments. I have my OWN volume knob,thaankya very much!

This is a perfect example of why cd sales are in the toilet. They sound like crap! I love Rush. I pre-ordered this damn cd soon as I could. To have a cd that sounds like this is just such a letdown, I have TRIED several times to get thru this disc without getting listening fatigue from the...total lack of dynamic range, or the drums that are buried under it all,the guitars that are not allowed to breath...ugh. Even worse, I CAN hear that what they did IS fantastic, why do we get a release that has the sound quality of a worn out cassette? AH,yes, the loudness thing. Gag.

Looking avidly forward to a re-issue of this disc, or the live dvd to come out of this tour...but if Raskolimits (whatever the heck his hack name is) is on the credits, i'll pass: fool me once...

To hear what an album SHOULD sound like in this day and age, please listen to Alice Cooper Wecome 2 my nightmare. Perhaps Bob ezrin could give lessons to the WHOLE INDUSTRY on how to produce a sound that is listenable, enjoyable, has clarity,depth, crispness,...I could go on,but you get the point.

ps: Rush rules. Todays' hot-level compression mastering does not, and I RESENT LOUDLY (heh) having to accept,as some of you do, a bootleg- quality recording of my fave bands new music.

[thirteen]

I been listening to Snakes and Arrows a lot recently. Say what you want about the songs, but I love the production.

Although I like CA songs more the S&A, I think S&A sounds so much better.

[tas7]

 

QUOTE (pedro2112 @ Jul 15 2012, 10:53 PM)

QUOTE (Ged Lent's sis @ Jul 15 2012, 05:51 PM) The only producer with a perfect record with RUSH is, well, I think we know the answer to that question

 

The sucky sounding Signals says, "Hello."

 

Overall, I still think Terry Brown produced the best-sounding albums. Terry Brown's albums sound more "analog," even Signals. Peter Collins' albums sound more "digital" and are more inconsistent: PoW and CP are exceptional, but HYF is pretty thin/digital and TFE is muddy and loud.

 

Has anyone else noticed that Clockwork Angels, the track, seems to have the most issues with the mix? I can EQ all the other songs to get a pretty decent sound, but with CA I still struggle to get it dialed in. The heavy guitar tracks all seem to be either too muddy or too thin/brittle. And the Neil's toms don't have much definition during the chorus. It's not quite as bad on the vinyl, but still not good.

 

I agree, there's that rhythm bit at the beginning where Neil is playing toms plus Alex's guitar is way too dense sound wise.I unintentionally listened to Clockwork Angels after Permanent Waves,and found CA started to give me a headache. It's just way too dense.Then I went back and listened to those Terry Brown Rush albums where the rhythm guitars,usually two or three are perfectly balanced.

This might sound crazy but on the 70's and 80's albums there was definitely more dynamic range allowing for light and shade but these last few albums, the quiet bits start loud and the loud bits get louder to the point it all loses definition.

Oddly enough reading a book on Jimmy Page and he talks about this alot in terms of his producing Zeppelin albums.He talks about losing the natural acoustics of instruments if you go for close miking and volume.