What is your opinion of Vapor Trails?

[Unattractive Truth]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 27 2012, 03:47 AM)

QUOTE (Snowman @ Feb 27 2012, 02:07 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 27 2012, 01:37 AM) QUOTE (goose @ Feb 26 2012, 10:38 PM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Feb 27 2012, 12:34 AM) I wonder how many like it just because it's Rush? That is part of the equation for sure, but not "just because...". I think it's a VERY fair question. Some people will absolutely refuse to dislike a Rush album, or they will listen to it many, many times until they grow to appreciate it, and hence "like" it.   Even I listened to it a LOT more times than I would have if it were anything other than a Rush album. If it was any other band, I never would have gotten past listen 1, and maybe not even that far. But, because it's Rush, and because I don't ever want to dislike anything Rush, I persevered, trying desperately to fall in love with the album, especially after 6 years of waiting. For me, it was all for nothing, but for others they grew to like it or appreciate it, or at least tolerate it. Hell, some even love it, and they did on the first listen.   When I first came on TRF, which was only maybe 3 years after VT came out, I assumed it would be a given that everyone thought VT was the heartbreaking, embarrassing, disastrous clusterf*ck of an album that I did, and I was deeply, deeply shocked to find so many people liked it or loved it. It still blows my mind. I seriously do not get it. Sometimes it really makes me question people's sanity or think that it's fanboyism run rampant. I do accept that lots of Rush fans, many of who are good friends of mine sincerely do like it or love it, however, so I know they're not really crazy, but sometimes it does makes me wonder. There are Rush albums I don't like that I can understand why people like, but not this one.   http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/rushgoober5/zoolander-mugatu-crazy-pills.jpg   Maybe it is time to revisit the album? Since you hate it that much I guess you havent given it a listen for years upon years.   I had also many issues with VT. After it was released I listened to it maybe 20-30 times, and I couldnt crack it. Then, I think I liked it because it was Rush.   In the last years I have almost not listened to it all. Maybe once every second year.   Half a year ago I picked it out again and found that the songs have aged well. There is so much gold in the songs that is buried under that bad production! Alas, such has been suggested to me many times on TRF, and in the past I took up people's challenge several times. I listened to it again... and again... and again... At some point I had to ask myself why I was torturing myself, and I stopped trying.   Seriously, take an album that you've heard once or twice that you really didn't like by some group other than Rush. Now, go listen to that album 15 times and try to get to like it. Sounds crazy, right? That's what people do. Hell, that's what I did. That's what people want me to do. Why? How many times do you have to beat your head against a wall to know that it hurts? I'm glad that you eventually got to like it, but I'm just not enough of a masochist to keep at it. There's too much great music out there that I don't have to work so hard at, ya know? If it helps, I don't care what other people like/dislike. Why should I? We all have our own subjective tastes. If you don't like VT, more power to you.   As for liking everything Rush does just because it's Rush or we've got "fanboyism running rampant", well, I think that's silly.   There are several albums I don't particularly like. Again, so what?   I'd rather listen to VT than CoS any day. So how's that?   *Braces for Impact*

[Pound of Obscure]

Indifferent. Three or four good songs on it destroyed by noise. The rest of the songs are quite forgetable. I've tried not to be too hard on the songs just due to poor sound quality but most of them, I'm afraid, just aren't so good.

[They Bow Defeated]

Like it. Listening on good Sony earbuds the other night, the production isn't quite as bad as I remembered. It certainly sounds much better at lower volume on earbuds than at louder volume on big speakers.

 

If you strip away most of the vocal and "noise" guitar overdubs, there are some great melodies and lyrics at the core of VT. The only weak track for me is Freeze, where it sounds like they're trying too hard with the odd time signatures.

 

For me, it's overall probably a better Rush album than, say, Roll the Bones which has better production value but some really poor songwriting (Face Up, You Bet Your Life ).

 

 

So... it looks like the hater spin in this thread will be that those who like VT are just fanbois who only like it because it's Rush.

Edited February 27, 2012 by They Bow Defeated

[Gilbertk]

I honestly always forget about it and rarely ever throw it on. I enjoy it when I do listen to it, but nothing stands out.

[Lerxster]

[Rick N. Backer]

I don't love VT, but I do love S&A and I think VT signalled (no pun intended) a transition to a more "harder edged" sound that ultimately led to S&A.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

So my apologies for the other VT poll in which I assumed the people who voted in the "I don't like the sound quality" actually like VT. That thinking meant that 85% like or love VT. This poll clearly shows that the real number is %75 like or love VT. I can admit when I am wrong!

 

Here is the 75% from this poll at this post:

 

Like it [ 23 ] [35.94%]

Love it [ 23 ] [35.94%]

 

I would have thrown the "indifferent" category in to say that hey, they don't "hate" it, but I don't want to mess up this very scientific poll!

 

My whole reason for posting the first poll on VT was not to convince rushgoober or anyone, but to find out "why" they don't like it.

 

Edited to add a bunch of stuff

Edited February 27, 2012 by Presto-a RUSH fan!

[TheAccountant]

[An Enemy Without]

So at this point about 38% love it. For a Rush album, that is a very low number. The number of people who actually enjoy listening to it sits at around 72%. Once again, a very low-ranked album among (and this is important) Rush fans. Of a population where 100% Rush fans, only 72% actually enjoy listening to Vapor Trails. That is a C minus.

 

Now subtract the number of people who like it "because it's Rush" or "because it signifies when Neil came back" or "because I'm a fanboy" () and the rating drops even lower, maybe into D territory.

[Tommy Sawyer]

QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Feb 27 2012, 08:15 PM)

So at this point about 38% love it. For a Rush album, that is a very low number. The number of people who actually enjoy listening to it sits at around 72%. Once again, a very low-ranked album among (and this is important) Rush fans. Of a population where 100% Rush fans, only 72% actually enjoy listening to Vapor Trails. That is a C minus. Now subtract the number of people who like it "because it's Rush" or "because it signifies when Neil came back" or "because I'm a fanboy" () and the rating drops even lower, maybe into D territory.

Why are you giving letter grades to an album?

 

I can rate an album 8/10 but that doesn't mean I'd give it a C.

[TheAccountant]

QUOTE (Unattractive Truth @ Feb 27 2012, 10:49 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 27 2012, 03:47 AM) QUOTE (Snowman @ Feb 27 2012, 02:07 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 27 2012, 01:37 AM) QUOTE (goose @ Feb 26 2012, 10:38 PM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Feb 27 2012, 12:34 AM) I wonder how many like it just because it's Rush? That is part of the equation for sure, but not "just because...". I think it's a VERY fair question. Some people will absolutely refuse to dislike a Rush album, or they will listen to it many, many times until they grow to appreciate it, and hence "like" it.   Even I listened to it a LOT more times than I would have if it were anything other than a Rush album. If it was any other band, I never would have gotten past listen 1, and maybe not even that far. But, because it's Rush, and because I don't ever want to dislike anything Rush, I persevered, trying desperately to fall in love with the album, especially after 6 years of waiting. For me, it was all for nothing, but for others they grew to like it or appreciate it, or at least tolerate it. Hell, some even love it, and they did on the first listen.   When I first came on TRF, which was only maybe 3 years after VT came out, I assumed it would be a given that everyone thought VT was the heartbreaking, embarrassing, disastrous clusterf*ck of an album that I did, and I was deeply, deeply shocked to find so many people liked it or loved it. It still blows my mind. I seriously do not get it. Sometimes it really makes me question people's sanity or think that it's fanboyism run rampant. I do accept that lots of Rush fans, many of who are good friends of mine sincerely do like it or love it, however, so I know they're not really crazy, but sometimes it does makes me wonder. There are Rush albums I don't like that I can understand why people like, but not this one.   http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/rushgoober5/zoolander-mugatu-crazy-pills.jpg   Maybe it is time to revisit the album? Since you hate it that much I guess you havent given it a listen for years upon years.   I had also many issues with VT. After it was released I listened to it maybe 20-30 times, and I couldnt crack it. Then, I think I liked it because it was Rush.   In the last years I have almost not listened to it all. Maybe once every second year.   Half a year ago I picked it out again and found that the songs have aged well. There is so much gold in the songs that is buried under that bad production! Alas, such has been suggested to me many times on TRF, and in the past I took up people's challenge several times. I listened to it again... and again... and again... At some point I had to ask myself why I was torturing myself, and I stopped trying.   Seriously, take an album that you've heard once or twice that you really didn't like by some group other than Rush. Now, go listen to that album 15 times and try to get to like it. Sounds crazy, right? That's what people do. Hell, that's what I did. That's what people want me to do. Why? How many times do you have to beat your head against a wall to know that it hurts? I'm glad that you eventually got to like it, but I'm just not enough of a masochist to keep at it. There's too much great music out there that I don't have to work so hard at, ya know? If it helps, I don't care what other people like/dislike. Why should I? We all have our own subjective tastes. If you don't like VT, more power to you.   As for liking everything Rush does just because it's Rush or we've got "fanboyism running rampant", well, I think that's silly.   There are several albums I don't particularly like. Again, so what?   I'd rather listen to VT than CoS any day. So how's that?   *Braces for Impact*         Right on!!! Good post!!   I agree with much of what you said. Assuming that you are not kidding about CoS I sort of agree with you on that one. I like it more than VT but their are 2 (long) songs on it that I don't care for at all. The rest of the album is good but those 2 songs really damage that album.   By the way, it may sound like a don't like Rush. Just the opposite. Other than the 2 long songs off CoS, most of VT, and a song here and there (mostly from ST, Counterparts and RTB) I love their work.   Put another way, I like ST, love FBN, like a few songs off CoS, love 2112 through Presto, like some songs off RTB, like the majority of Counterparts, T4E and S & A. Thats liking / loving a huge body of their work. No other group has that level of consistently good / great music. At least not to my ears.

[TheAccountant]

[Tommy Sawyer]

Listening to VT again right now.

 

On How It Is.

 

Only song so far that I actively dislike is Peaceable Kingdom.

[ILSnwdog]

Like almost every Rush album...I love it.

[They Bow Defeated]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Feb 27 2012, 08:44 PM)

Listening to VT again right now. On How It Is. Only song so far that I actively dislike is Peaceable Kingdom.

Peaceable Kingdom is a great example of how all the excessive vocal overdubs can swamp the songs on VT. The super high harmonies in the verse just do NOT work. But the chorus sounds great, when the harmonies cut out and it's a single vocal line. Maybe this was the intention, building tension in the verse and then releasing it in the chorus.

 

Listening again the other night, I really do think the excessive vocal overdubs may have been the biggest mistake on VT.

Edited February 28, 2012 by They Bow Defeated

[USB Connector]

If they didn't mess up the production/damage the audio, it would have been one of their best albums. I think it's a great album.

[goose]

QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Feb 27 2012, 08:59 PM)

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Feb 27 2012, 08:44 PM) Listening to VT again right now. On How It Is. Only song so far that I actively dislike is Peaceable Kingdom. Peaceable Kingdom is a great example of how all the excessive vocal overdubs can swamp the songs on VT. The super high harmonies in the verse just do NOT work. But the chorus sounds great, when the harmonies cut out and it's a single vocal line. Maybe this was the intention, building tension in the verse and then releasing it in the chorus.   Listening again the other night, I really do think the excessive vocal overdubs may have been the biggest mistake on VT. Yeah...cut out ket boards but go obsessive on vocal layering. Not a great move...and a bit annoying. If you want to strip it down, then do. Much of VT has a punk-ish angst, and the layering detracts a bit. Still dig it in spite, though.

[troutman]

[An Enemy Without]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Feb 27 2012, 07:30 PM)

QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Feb 27 2012, 08:15 PM) So at this point about 38% love it. For a Rush album, that is a very low number. The number of people who actually enjoy listening to it sits at around 72%. Once again, a very low-ranked album among (and this is important) Rush fans. Of a population where 100% Rush fans, only 72% actually enjoy listening to Vapor Trails. That is a C minus. Now subtract the number of people who like it "because it's Rush" or "because it signifies when Neil came back" or "because I'm a fanboy" () and the rating drops even lower, maybe into D territory. Why are you giving letter grades to an album?   I can rate an album 8/10 but that doesn't mean I'd give it a C. Of course you wouldn't give it a C; that's a B minus.

[Silas Lang]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 27 2012, 01:37 AM)

When I first came on TRF, which was only maybe 3 years after VT came out, I assumed it would be a given that everyone thought VT was the heartbreaking, embarrassing, disastrous clusterf*ck of an album that I did, and I was deeply, deeply shocked to find so many people liked it or loved it.  It still blows my mind.  I seriously do not get it.

Similarly, it blows my mind that a Rush fan can thoroughly disparage and tear apart such a strong and unique piece of work in the manner in which you do, Goober. How anyone who loves the band and knows the circumstances leading up to it can listen to the song 'Vapor Trail' (using just one example) and not feel some emotional pull or connection towards it I simply can't understand (leaving out that just musically I think it's great song).

 

Every song is very good or great to me...another 'love it' vote here.

[goose]

[Silas Lang]

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Feb 27 2012, 06:15 PM)

So at this point about 38% love it. For a Rush album, that is a very low number. The number of people who actually enjoy listening to it sits at around 72%. Once again, a very low-ranked album among (and this is important) Rush fans. Of a population where 100% Rush fans, only 72% actually enjoy listening to Vapor Trails. That is a C minus. Now subtract the number of people who like it "because it's Rush" or "because it signifies when Neil came back" or "because I'm a fanboy" () and the rating drops even lower, maybe into D territory.

This is the interpretation that makes the most sense to me. Of course the people who love it will lump like and love together to get a higher percentage number.

 

For a hardcore Rush fan (which is what this website consists of) to only "like" a Rush album is not high praise IMHO. And often those people had to work very hard to get to like it.

 

Anyway, people will see things the way they want to, myself included.

 

"Still a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest." ~ Simon & Garfunkel

[goose]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 28 2012, 12:56 AM)

QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Feb 27 2012, 06:15 PM) So at this point about 38% love it. For a Rush album, that is a very low number. The number of people who actually enjoy listening to it sits at around 72%. Once again, a very low-ranked album among (and this is important) Rush fans. Of a population where 100% Rush fans, only 72% actually enjoy listening to Vapor Trails. That is a C minus. Now subtract the number of people who like it "because it's Rush" or "because it signifies when Neil came back" or "because I'm a fanboy" () and the rating drops even lower, maybe into D territory. This is the interpretation that makes the most sense to me. Of course the people who love it will lump like and love together to get a higher percentage number.   For a hardcore Rush fan (which is what this website consists of) to only "like" a Rush album is not high praise IMHO. And often those people had to work very hard to get to like it.   Anyway, people will see things the way they want to, myself included.   "Still a man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest." ~ Simon & Garfunkel Lie! L-lie, I say!   VT rocks!

[rushgoober]

Edited February 28, 2012 by rushgoober