The problem with Vapor Trails

[WCFIELDS]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 19 2011, 05:56 AM)

The album is best forgotten about as the ugly red-headed stepchild it is. I say delete it, try and remove it from their discography and hope people forget about it. It's great that the band came back after such tragedy, but they were clearly floundering with this album. Once they heard the album, the tapes should have been erased and they should have started from scratch.

For S&A.....this is right on. Couldn't have said it any better.....

[Ancient Ways]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 20 2011, 09:33 PM)

QUOTE (ACL @ Sep 20 2011, 05:02 PM) I know most have read this before, but here we go again The Problem with VT Great article, but it assumes that the problem is merely with the loudness/clipping. For me, that's only one of many problems with the album. No. An article that breaks down information in a technical manner that is not subjective cannot be compared to opinions about song quality.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Sep 20 2011, 07:05 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 20 2011, 09:33 PM) QUOTE (ACL @ Sep 20 2011, 05:02 PM) I know most have read this before, but here we go again The Problem with VT Great article, but it assumes that the problem is merely with the loudness/clipping. For me, that's only one of many problems with the album. No. An article that breaks down information in a technical manner that is not subjective cannot be compared to opinions about song quality. well, i understand that subjective opinions are not the same things as scientific, technical information, but the end result is still the same for me, whether it's because of the music itself or the way it was released sonically - neither work for me in equal measures.

[Barry]

Funny, I am not a huge fan of VT, I do like OLV, Ghost Rider, Secret Touch and Earthshine...but over all it is probably my least favorite Rush album (followed by Test For Echo and Roll The Bones) but I am such a big Rush fan that I even love the stuff that I don't love. A bad Rush song is better than the best songs by some less bands / artists..

 

That being said, my friend Scott...who's musical opinions I trust and put a lot of weight in, and who is a very accomplished Bass player in his own right...VT is his all time favorite Rush album. It's all so very subjective.

 

I would love a re-mixed version at some point.

[Pags]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 20 2011, 10:19 PM)

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Sep 20 2011, 07:05 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 20 2011, 09:33 PM) QUOTE (ACL @ Sep 20 2011, 05:02 PM) I know most have read this before, but here we go again The Problem with VT Great article, but it assumes that the problem is merely with the loudness/clipping. For me, that's only one of many problems with the album. No. An article that breaks down information in a technical manner that is not subjective cannot be compared to opinions about song quality. well, i understand that subjective opinions are not the same things as scientific, technical information, but the end result is still the same for me, whether it's because of the music itself or the way it was released sonically - neither work for me in equal measures. Wait.. are you saying you don't like VT? Goobs! In all these years you've never said that before on this website... ever!   I'm shocked!

[Pags]

QUOTE (ACL @ Sep 20 2011, 08:02 PM)

I know most have read this before, but here we go again The Problem with VT

Definitely the best article I've seen on this, I'm glad you dug it up.

 

[JohnnyBlaze]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 21 2011, 11:19 AM)

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Sep 20 2011, 07:05 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 20 2011, 09:33 PM) QUOTE (ACL @ Sep 20 2011, 05:02 PM) I know most have read this before, but here we go again The Problem with VT Great article, but it assumes that the problem is merely with the loudness/clipping. For me, that's only one of many problems with the album. No. An article that breaks down information in a technical manner that is not subjective cannot be compared to opinions about song quality. well, i understand that subjective opinions are not the same things as scientific, technical information They're NOT?!!! All those times you said that VT isn't good, I took it as 100% quantifiable fact.

[Show Don't Tell]

Y'all settle down or I'll done clip yo' peaks!

[callmejim]

QUOTE (ghostworks @ Sep 19 2011, 08:51 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 19 2011, 06:56 AM) ...they were clearly floundering with this album. ^ that's a fair and provable comment if it's pointed at RTB, T4E or S&A   it's laughable when pointed at VT   sorry, friend, but you're 'IMO's' are all used up   there's hardly a more visceral album in their collection (and I'm beginning to suspect that's what is most irksome for you, personally)   Rush hit what for most seemed an impossible home run in 2002, and because they weren't measured controlled and sterile about it, it creases your chaps   VT is primal scream therapy in 7/4 time - and what better combination for a band who had so obviously (and painfully) lost the fire in the 90's (much of CP and most of RTB and T4E)?   VT is 'life' brimming over, running through the woods at night, riverside fires, stinging smoke your eyes   VT is not a climate-controlled London recording studio, cups of Earl Grey, hired synthesizer programmers huddled over computer screens, folded knee armchair newspaper editorials   if you can't reconcile that the most memorable and evocative Rush songs from the last 20 years are contained solely on VT, then you've lost your heart for the band itself somewhere along the line   Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson and most definitely Neil Peart live in that record - it's the closest most of us will ever get to spending literal time with them   there's probably less than five records in the world I could say that about Yup, with you right there. Hey! Leave off the Earl Grey though. VT-great album, an angry record. Just like they should be.

[drbirdsong]

QUOTE (callmejim @ Sep 22 2011, 11:09 AM)

QUOTE (ghostworks @ Sep 19 2011, 08:51 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 19 2011, 06:56 AM) ...they were clearly floundering with this album. ^ that's a fair and provable comment if it's pointed at RTB, T4E or S&A   it's laughable when pointed at VT   sorry, friend, but you're 'IMO's' are all used up   there's hardly a more visceral album in their collection (and I'm beginning to suspect that's what is most irksome for you, personally)   Rush hit what for most seemed an impossible home run in 2002, and because they weren't measured controlled and sterile about it, it creases your chaps   VT is primal scream therapy in 7/4 time - and what better combination for a band who had so obviously (and painfully) lost the fire in the 90's (much of CP and most of RTB and T4E)?   VT is 'life' brimming over, running through the woods at night, riverside fires, stinging smoke your eyes   VT is not a climate-controlled London recording studio, cups of Earl Grey, hired synthesizer programmers huddled over computer screens, folded knee armchair newspaper editorials   if you can't reconcile that the most memorable and evocative Rush songs from the last 20 years are contained solely on VT, then you've lost your heart for the band itself somewhere along the line   Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson and most definitely Neil Peart live in that record - it's the closest most of us will ever get to spending literal time with them   there's probably less than five records in the world I could say that about Yup, with you right there. Hey! Leave off the Earl Grey though. VT-great album, an angry record. Just like they should be.

[Rush Cocky]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 20 2011, 09:32 PM)

QUOTE (ACL @ Sep 20 2011, 05:02 PM) I know most have read this before, but here we go again The Problem with VT Great article, but it assumes that the problem is merely with the loudness/clipping. For me, that's only one of many problems with the album. Absolutely.   What's worse is that we waited in anticipation for 6 years and this is what we got. A few good tracks, and a lot of unrelateable stuff, at least to me.   Yeah I know, tragedies and stuff........and I get that it resonated with a lot of people.   But I bring this point up because I fear that the longer Clockwork Angels takes to put out, the more prone it also will be to mediocrity.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Rush Cocky

[ghostworks]

QUOTE (callmejim @ Sep 22 2011, 11:09 AM)

...leave off the Earl Grey though...

fair enough

 

(we'll sneak some in after a few rounds of )

 

[Ancient Ways]

QUOTE (JohnnyBlaze @ Sep 21 2011, 07:13 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 21 2011, 11:19 AM) QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Sep 20 2011, 07:05 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 20 2011, 09:33 PM) QUOTE (ACL @ Sep 20 2011, 05:02 PM) I know most have read this before, but here we go again The Problem with VT Great article, but it assumes that the problem is merely with the loudness/clipping. For me, that's only one of many problems with the album. No. An article that breaks down information in a technical manner that is not subjective cannot be compared to opinions about song quality. well, i understand that subjective opinions are not the same things as scientific, technical information They're NOT?!!! All those times you said that VT isn't good, I took it as 100% quantifiable fact. I may have quoted the wrong post up there, not sure anymore. Possible

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (callmejim @ Sep 22 2011, 09:09 AM)

QUOTE (ghostworks @ Sep 19 2011, 08:51 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 19 2011, 06:56 AM) ...they were clearly floundering with this album. ^ that's a fair and provable comment if it's pointed at RTB, T4E or S&A   it's laughable when pointed at VT   sorry, friend, but you're 'IMO's' are all used up   there's hardly a more visceral album in their collection (and I'm beginning to suspect that's what is most irksome for you, personally)   Rush hit what for most seemed an impossible home run in 2002, and because they weren't measured controlled and sterile about it, it creases your chaps   VT is primal scream therapy in 7/4 time - and what better combination for a band who had so obviously (and painfully) lost the fire in the 90's (much of CP and most of RTB and T4E)?   VT is 'life' brimming over, running through the woods at night, riverside fires, stinging smoke your eyes   VT is not a climate-controlled London recording studio, cups of Earl Grey, hired synthesizer programmers huddled over computer screens, folded knee armchair newspaper editorials   if you can't reconcile that the most memorable and evocative Rush songs from the last 20 years are contained solely on VT, then you've lost your heart for the band itself somewhere along the line   Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson and most definitely Neil Peart live in that record - it's the closest most of us will ever get to spending literal time with them   there's probably less than five records in the world I could say that about Yup, with you right there. Hey! Leave off the Earl Grey though. VT-great album, an angry record. Just like they should be. Well, some of us don't want Rush to be The Sex Pistols. To each their own, though.

[ghostworks]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 22 2011, 05:26 PM)

Well, some of us don't want Rush to be The Sex Pistols.  To each their own, though.

I said VT was "...'life' brimming over, running through the woods at night, riverside fires, stinging smoke your eyes..."

 

not "...folded over in a piss-drain alley, gobbed shirtsleeves barely covering track marks, missing a few teeth and noticing them in the puke pool beside you..."

[Ancient Ways]

[rushgoober]

[druid13]

QUOTE (ghostworks @ Sep 19 2011, 08:51 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 19 2011, 06:56 AM) ...they were clearly floundering with this album. ^ that's a fair and provable comment if it's pointed at RTB, T4E or S&A   it's laughable when pointed at VT   sorry, friend, but you're 'IMO's' are all used up   there's hardly a more visceral album in their collection (and I'm beginning to suspect that's what is most irksome for you, personally)   Rush hit what for most seemed an impossible home run in 2002, and because they weren't measured controlled and sterile about it, it creases your chaps   VT is primal scream therapy in 7/4 time - and what better combination for a band who had so obviously (and painfully) lost the fire in the 90's (much of CP and most of RTB and T4E)?   VT is 'life' brimming over, running through the woods at night, riverside fires, stinging smoke your eyes   VT is not a climate-controlled London recording studio, cups of Earl Grey, hired synthesizer programmers huddled over computer screens, folded knee armchair newspaper editorials   if you can't reconcile that the most memorable and evocative Rush songs from the last 20 years are contained solely on VT, then you've lost your heart for the band itself somewhere along the line   Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson and most definitely Neil Peart live in that record - it's the closest most of us will ever get to spending literal time with them   there's probably less than five records in the world I could say that about Good post...and after just checking out the two remixed versions of earthshine and OLV I think I'd really go right out to get the remix...   the heart and soul of this album was spot on...songwriting..rough edges...etc etc...the sound production was the screwup.   Everything else was bad arse.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

At the risk of being scorned and ridiculed, I found a thread about Vapor Trails being a bad album, or at least the OP's reasons. I haven't read thru all the posts but I am sure there are many a post about how this album sucks.

 

That said,

 

I love this album so much. I love just about every song and the ones I don't love, I like alot.

 

My top 5 favorites are:

 

Peaceable Kingdom

One Little Victory

Vapor Trails

Earthshine

Sweet Miracle

Ghost Rider

 

Yeah that is 6 and they are in no particular order. The ones not listed are songs I like alot.

 

The music on Peaceable Kingdom is some of the best jam out music RUSH has put out in a while. Take the lyrics out, which I love, and I'd love it just the same.

 

As far as the complaints about the mixing and sound levels. I have never gotten any of that criticism about anything RUSH has done. Of course I have tinnitus (ringing in the ears) so my hearing isn't great but I don't get those complaints at all. Again, maybe if I had perfect hearing and/or was a musician or a sound engineer I could hear what all the fuss is about, but I just don't. (maybe having tinnitus is a good thing) But that is just me.

[rugen]

I have no problem with the VT mix or sounds, i really enjoyed the guitar sound of Alex in that cd, the problem for me, it's the level of composition. You clearly feel the rage of the band, it was a direct, "on the face" approach, and not your typical cd where the band takes times to develop the melody. So the cd suffers from lack of melody and gain in term of intensity.

[Todem]

I have always felt VT was one of Rush's most passion filled records.

 

I just wish we can hear all the wonderful little details of Alex's dazzling guitar work.

 

The mix is a hot mess. The album is raw, and powerful. But I have heard many raw, powerful and passionate albums mixed and mastered much better than VT was.

 

Rush IMO has a sonic standard that they themselves are quite aware of. They failed us but more importantly themselves (on VT) and they know this and would like a reset and a remix and master on VT. They have admitted this already.

 

There is a much better album in there that can be heard with a proper mix and master. And it will still sound heavy and hard.....but it won't make your ears bleed in the process.

 

Heck side one of 2112. Raw, passion, urgency....sonic beauty too.

 

Why can't VT be given the same treatment?

Edited November 29, 2011 by Todem

[H. P. L.]

QUOTE (ghostworks @ Sep 19 2011, 03:51 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 19 2011, 06:56 AM) ...they were clearly floundering with this album. ^ that's a fair and provable comment if it's pointed at RTB, T4E or S&A   it's laughable when pointed at VT   sorry, friend, but you're 'IMO's' are all used up   there's hardly a more visceral album in their collection (and I'm beginning to suspect that's what is most irksome for you, personally)   Rush hit what for most seemed an impossible home run in 2002, and because they weren't measured controlled and sterile about it, it creases your chaps   VT is primal scream therapy in 7/4 time - and what better combination for a band who had so obviously (and painfully) lost the fire in the 90's (much of CP and most of RTB and T4E)?   VT is 'life' brimming over, running through the woods at night, riverside fires, stinging smoke your eyes   VT is not a climate-controlled London recording studio, cups of Earl Grey, hired synthesizer programmers huddled over computer screens, folded knee armchair newspaper editorials   if you can't reconcile that the most memorable and evocative Rush songs from the last 20 years are contained solely on VT, then you've lost your heart for the band itself somewhere along the line   Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson and most definitely Neil Peart live in that record - it's the closest most of us will ever get to spending literal time with them   there's probably less than five records in the world I could say that about I'm going to save this one in my personal library. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[tjtull]

QUOTE (Todem @ Nov 29 2011, 07:13 AM)

I have always felt VT was one of Rush's most passion filled records. I just wish we can hear all the wonderful little details of Alex's dazzling guitar work. The mix is a hot mess. The album is raw, and powerful. But I have heard many raw, powerful and passionate albums mixed and mastered much better than VT was. Rush IMO has a sonic standard that they themselves are quite aware of. They failed us but more importantly themselves (on VT) and they know this and would like a reset and a remix and master on VT. They have admitted this already. There is a much better album in there that can be heard with a proper mix and master. And it will still sound heavy and hard.....but it won't make your ears bleed in the process. Heck side one of 2112. Raw, passion, urgency....sonic beauty too. Why can't VT be given the same treatment?

Agree 100%. I love this album but can't listen to it because of the extreme clipping. That's why I gripe every time they revisit (remaster) old albums for the 2nd/3rd/4th time while leaving this one untouched. Time has come to right this ship and I hope it's done soon. VT is their best work in decades, IMO. It deserves to be heard...not clipped to death.

 

Get on it boys!! ...and do a 5.1 disc while you're at it.

[EmotionDetector]

Whenever the full remixed version of VT comes out, I think it may climb a bit higher on my list of favourites.

 

Like I said, the main issue to me is the crappy production. Period.

 

I know many people here were not crazy about the two remixes, but personally, I loved them. I guess the Earthshine one did come off a little 'softer' than I would've liked. However, I can honestly say that it breathed a whole new life into 'One Little Victory'.

 

I never had OLV all that high on my list of fav's, but the song sounds so fresh now, and very different to me. Being able to hear Ged's cool bass work in the song is fantastic...and I can say that I listen to the song (remix) way more than I ever did before!

[metaldad]

The problem is that is sounds like Shit . Remix and Remaster and you are good to go