OFFICIAL Caravan and BU2B reaction thread

[trenken]

QUOTE (tangy @ Jun 3 2010, 10:35 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 10:32 AM) Its hard for me to look at Rush as a ground breaking band at all. They're a band who has had a lot of success, are very good at what they do, have influenced many, but ground breaking? Im not so sure about that. You look at a band they influenced, Metallica. They broke new ground in music, they basically sparked a new genre in music itself, and really popularized it, Rush never did anything like that, and I think thats the sole reason Metallica beat Rush into the HoF. Their impact has been far greater than Rush's. Rush has always been an adventurous band, willing to try new styles, and often succeeding at that, but they dont actually do anything new, they just sort of follow whats going on around them. In the 70s they did prog like other bands did before them, in the 80s they start the synth rock, which they were not the first to do, in the 90s more grungy, after bands like Nirvana were already doing it. They've broken new ground for themselves, but not in music itself, if thats what we're talking about. many consider rush to be the founders of prog-metal. Huh????? You have any idea how many bands were doing prog music in the 60s and early 70s, before Rush even came out?   To me Rush was one of the best at it, but they sure as hell had nothing to do with the development of it.

[trenken]

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 3 2010, 10:36 AM)

QUOTE (tangy @ Jun 3 2010, 10:35 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 10:32 AM) Its hard for me to look at Rush as a ground breaking band at all. They're a band who has had a lot of success, are very good at what they do, have influenced many, but ground breaking? Im not so sure about that. You look at a band they influenced, Metallica. They broke new ground in music, they basically sparked a new genre in music itself, and really popularized it, Rush never did anything like that, and I think thats the sole reason Metallica beat Rush into the HoF. Their impact has been far greater than Rush's. Rush has always been an adventurous band, willing to try new styles, and often succeeding at that, but they dont actually do anything new, they just sort of follow whats going on around them. In the 70s they did prog like other bands did before them, in the 80s they start the synth rock, which they were not the first to do, in the 90s more grungy, after bands like Nirvana were already doing it. They've broken new ground for themselves, but not in music itself, if thats what we're talking about. many consider rush to be the founders of prog-metal. ...along with other bands like Yes and Genesis, no? You could argue Rush was influenced by them and did their own form of that. Rush is always doing their OWN form of whatever they're influnced by, but are they CREATING something no one ever heard before? I'm not so sure. Of course few bands have. That's not a knock. Yeah exactly, not everyone can be a ground breaker, and you dont need to be to be consider great.   Everything Rush has done has been done before, I just always felt they simply did it better, at least until the 90s anyway. They were very much followers, but improvers at the same time.

[tangy]

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 3 2010, 10:36 AM)

QUOTE (tangy @ Jun 3 2010, 10:35 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 10:32 AM) Its hard for me to look at Rush as a ground breaking band at all. They're a band who has had a lot of success, are very good at what they do, have influenced many, but ground breaking? Im not so sure about that. You look at a band they influenced, Metallica. They broke new ground in music, they basically sparked a new genre in music itself, and really popularized it, Rush never did anything like that, and I think thats the sole reason Metallica beat Rush into the HoF. Their impact has been far greater than Rush's. Rush has always been an adventurous band, willing to try new styles, and often succeeding at that, but they dont actually do anything new, they just sort of follow whats going on around them. In the 70s they did prog like other bands did before them, in the 80s they start the synth rock, which they were not the first to do, in the 90s more grungy, after bands like Nirvana were already doing it. They've broken new ground for themselves, but not in music itself, if thats what we're talking about. many consider rush to be the founders of prog-metal. ...along with other bands like Yes and Genesis, no? You could argue Rush was influenced by them and did their own form of that. Rush is always doing their OWN form of whatever they're influnced by, but are they CREATING something no one ever heard before? I'm not so sure. Of course few bands have. That's not a knock. rush although influenced by yes were much "heavier" than yes in the 70's and that why rush is associated with prog-metal. not that it was recognized as such at the time. in my circles it was all called Art Rock.

[Presto-digitation]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 10:39 AM)

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 3 2010, 10:36 AM) QUOTE (tangy @ Jun 3 2010, 10:35 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 10:32 AM) Its hard for me to look at Rush as a ground breaking band at all. They're a band who has had a lot of success, are very good at what they do, have influenced many, but ground breaking? Im not so sure about that. You look at a band they influenced, Metallica. They broke new ground in music, they basically sparked a new genre in music itself, and really popularized it, Rush never did anything like that, and I think thats the sole reason Metallica beat Rush into the HoF. Their impact has been far greater than Rush's. Rush has always been an adventurous band, willing to try new styles, and often succeeding at that, but they dont actually do anything new, they just sort of follow whats going on around them. In the 70s they did prog like other bands did before them, in the 80s they start the synth rock, which they were not the first to do, in the 90s more grungy, after bands like Nirvana were already doing it. They've broken new ground for themselves, but not in music itself, if thats what we're talking about. many consider rush to be the founders of prog-metal. ...along with other bands like Yes and Genesis, no? You could argue Rush was influenced by them and did their own form of that. Rush is always doing their OWN form of whatever they're influnced by, but are they CREATING something no one ever heard before? I'm not so sure. Of course few bands have. That's not a knock. Yeah exactly, not everyone can be a ground breaker, and you dont need to be to be consider great.   Everything Rush has done has been done before, I just always felt they simply did it better, at least until the 90s anyway. They were very much followers, but improvers at the same time. Yes. Fine post.

[tangy]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 10:37 AM)

QUOTE (tangy @ Jun 3 2010, 10:35 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 10:32 AM) Its hard for me to look at Rush as a ground breaking band at all. They're a band who has had a lot of success, are very good at what they do, have influenced many, but ground breaking? Im not so sure about that. You look at a band they influenced, Metallica. They broke new ground in music, they basically sparked a new genre in music itself, and really popularized it, Rush never did anything like that, and I think thats the sole reason Metallica beat Rush into the HoF. Their impact has been far greater than Rush's. Rush has always been an adventurous band, willing to try new styles, and often succeeding at that, but they dont actually do anything new, they just sort of follow whats going on around them. In the 70s they did prog like other bands did before them, in the 80s they start the synth rock, which they were not the first to do, in the 90s more grungy, after bands like Nirvana were already doing it. They've broken new ground for themselves, but not in music itself, if thats what we're talking about. many consider rush to be the founders of prog-metal. Huh????? You have any idea how many bands were doing prog music in the 60s and early 70s, before Rush even came out?   To me Rush was one of the best at it, but they sure as hell had nothing to do with the development of it. prog METAL not prog.

[trenken]

QUOTE (tangy @ Jun 3 2010, 10:42 AM)

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 10:37 AM) QUOTE (tangy @ Jun 3 2010, 10:35 AM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 10:32 AM) Its hard for me to look at Rush as a ground breaking band at all. They're a band who has had a lot of success, are very good at what they do, have influenced many, but ground breaking? Im not so sure about that. You look at a band they influenced, Metallica. They broke new ground in music, they basically sparked a new genre in music itself, and really popularized it, Rush never did anything like that, and I think thats the sole reason Metallica beat Rush into the HoF. Their impact has been far greater than Rush's. Rush has always been an adventurous band, willing to try new styles, and often succeeding at that, but they dont actually do anything new, they just sort of follow whats going on around them. In the 70s they did prog like other bands did before them, in the 80s they start the synth rock, which they were not the first to do, in the 90s more grungy, after bands like Nirvana were already doing it. They've broken new ground for themselves, but not in music itself, if thats what we're talking about. many consider rush to be the founders of prog-metal. Huh????? You have any idea how many bands were doing prog music in the 60s and early 70s, before Rush even came out?   To me Rush was one of the best at it, but they sure as hell had nothing to do with the development of it. prog METAL not prog. Oh prog METAL, well I think the issue with that was its not really some massive genre like thrash metal became, which is why metallica got so much bigger than Rush.   Thrash metal went on to be far bigger than prog of any kind ever was. So although I think you're right, Rush was one of the primary influences in that area, the genre itself never had much mass appeal.   I remember seeing metallica all over MTV, all over the radio, that style of music got really big, and its still very popular today, so there's a difference there in genres, Rush was just a part of something that never got that big.   Some of the bands that were involved in prog metal and art rock got big later, but it was usually once they got away from prog, like genesis and rush when they both started writing shorter songs. Prog just doesnt lend itself well to mass appeal, the songs are long, not easy to digest, thats usually stuff that musicians listen to.

[rushgoober]

I agree with many that Rush aren't particularly groundbreaking. The first album had a heavy Zep influence, their prog period echoed prog that was already around. Their prog/pop period, snyth heavy power pop, grunge, back to basic hard rock, etc. - they take existing genres and modify them to their own sound. What they DO have going is they make the genres so much their own and do it so uniquely and so often better than everyone else that it seems groundbreaking, but it's not - they just do what they do in a very original way.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Jun 3 2010, 11:08 AM)

QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Jun 3 2010, 10:51 AM) QUOTE (tangy @ Jun 3 2010, 09:32 AM) i really like both songs but do not see them as radical departure from S&A. Whats the freshest sound in these songs? Is there any new ground broken here? I don't thnk it's so much a departure from S&A as it is an extension or improvement upon musical ideas, overall sound, etc. that they began developing with VT.   The improvements, for me, are the tempos, Neil's busier, an actual jam & no Geddy choirs.   I don't know what ground they can break at this point. Another obvious difference from S&A is the lack of acoustic guitars. It was obvious that the last album was written on acoustics, and it's also obvious these new songs weren't. And what we get is a heavier sound and more riffing as opposed to fitting everything around mid-tempo strumming. Yep...this is certainly the first, most notable difference between the new songs, and those of S&A.   I'm a big fan of S&A as everyone knows by now, but it is plain and obvious that both Caravan and BU2B rock alot harder than MOST of what was on S&A. The tempo has increased big time, which alot of people wanted them to change from S&A, which I think explains why many of those who disliked S&A have really taken a shine to the new songs.   Honestly, I do still feel some S&A influence in the songs, but it is minimal. I actually almost hear a little more VT in their songs, especially Caravan...parts of that middle breakdown section remind me ALOT of Secret Touch's bridge section.   These are definitely the most notable differences, at least in my ears.

[growingbald]

Well it's probably already been said, but I'll add to the dogpile.

 

I usually have to take a good listen to any new Rush material to get a feel for it (and to figure out how to play it), but my first impressions of Caravan is that it's easily one of their best 3 songs in the last 10 years. BU2B is solid, but not up to par with Caravan.

 

Caravan is Rush at their ADHD best...changing keys on a whim, weird time signatures at a drop of a hat. I can hear about 5-6 song flavors in the song which makes it extremely interesting. This is one of those songs that I like to figure out on guitar and just as I think I've got it pretty close, along comes Alex's solo and just leaves everyone in the dust. I REALLY think they should open their show (or the 2nd intermission) with Caravan.

 

Geddy's bass sound is just beefy and bada$$ with those Orange amps.

 

I hope this a return to the less song-centric but more jammy version of Rush.

 

P.S. anyone comparing Rush with Metallica or any other band needs to take a good listen to Caravan. Most older bands are just milking their past work and not coming up with anything new that's worth a pile.

 

 

 

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jun 3 2010, 09:16 AM)

i'm trying to get into it but it shouldn't be that hard. maybe it will hit me later on.

RL...give it time.

 

Honestly, the first time I listened all the way through S&A, I was like..."what, that's it?". I was so bummed to think that after waiting 5 years, this was the best they could do.

 

But one-by-one, the songs hit me as I was listening to them on headphones at work. I started to hear all sorts of great things that I liked.

 

I will tell you this too...I had been listening to the two new tracks since they came out, and it was only this morning on my drive to work that BU2B hit me...and now it is stuck in my head.

 

I am totally digging BU2B right now...and I'm not even a huge fan of the subject matter. But the song is really well-done. Just give 'er time...

[metaldad]

BU2B has one of, if not the heaviest opening riff they have ever done . Edited June 3, 2010 by metaldad

[EmotionDetector]

Also...I just wanted to add this point, but during Alex's guitar solo on Caravan, does anyone else hear some Power Windows influence??

 

I dunno why...but I hear a PoW tone on that solo. Am I crazy?

[trenken]

QUOTE (growingbald @ Jun 3 2010, 11:50 AM)

Well it's probably already been said, but I'll add to the dogpile.  I usually have to take a good listen to any new Rush material to get a feel for it (and to figure out how to play it), but my first impressions of Caravan is that it's easily one of their best 3 songs in the last 10 years. BU2B is solid, but not up to par with Caravan. Caravan is Rush at their ADHD best...changing keys on a whim, weird time signatures at a drop of a hat. I can hear about 5-6 song flavors in the song which makes it extremely interesting. This is one of those songs that I like to figure out on guitar and just as I think I've got it pretty close, along comes Alex's solo and just leaves everyone in the dust. I REALLY think they should open their show (or the 2nd intermission) with Caravan. Geddy's bass sound is just beefy and bada$$ with those Orange amps.  I hope this a return to the less song-centric but more jammy version of Rush. P.S. anyone comparing Rush with Metallica or any other band needs to take a good listen to Caravan. Most older bands are just milking their past work and not coming up with anything new that's worth a pile.

Weird, Metallica's latest album is probably the freshest piece of metal ive heard in about 15 years.

 

Not only is it fantastic, but ppl recognize that, it sold over 12 million copies. Rush's last 2 albums totalled 500k.

 

Arguing against metallica only results in fail.

Edited June 3, 2010 by trenken

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jun 3 2010, 12:52 PM)

BU2B has one of, if not the heaviest opening riff they have ever done .

Yup...IMO, this has got to be amongst the heaviest things they have ever done...at least since the 'Under The Shadow' section of The Necromancer.

 

Just unbelivable aggression from the Boys...I like it!

[metaldad]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 11:54 AM)

Not only is it fantastic, but ppl recognize that, it sold over 12 million copies.

I don't think D.M. came close to 12 million albums

[Rushman14]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 09:54 AM)

Weird, Metallica's latest album is probably the freshest piece of metal ive heard in about 15 years. Not only is it fantastic, but ppl recognize that, it sold over 12 million copies. Rush's last 2 albums totalled 500k. Arguing against metallica only results in fail.

that explains alot bro.

[SpiritOfRush]

One thing I will say (and to me it's sort of a groundbreaking type thing)...I think Rush is one of the few bands and one of the first I remember to get to their status and level with very minimal help from radio or the music industry in general. They did it on their terms in their own way...critics be damned. They kept true to themselves and their fans. They might change to become more in tune with the times, but they still do it in their own way. And the fact that 3 such virtuoso musically gifted people got together in the first place...well, it's just a Sweet Miracle (to borrow from VT).

[-D-RocK-]

QUOTE (SpiritOfRush @ Jun 3 2010, 11:19 AM)

One thing I will say (and to me it's sort of a groundbreaking type thing)...I think Rush is one of the few bands and one of the first I remember to get to their status and level with very minimal help from radio or the music industry in general. They did it on their terms in their own way...critics be damned. They kept true to themselves and their fans. They might change to become more in tune with the times, but they still do it in their own way. And the fact that 3 such virtuoso musically gifted people got together in the first place...well, it's just a Sweet Miracle (to borrow from VT).

Now that's a damn fine post.

[LeaveMyThingAlone]

QUOTE (SpiritOfRush @ Jun 3 2010, 12:19 PM)

One thing I will say (and to me it's sort of a groundbreaking type thing)...I think Rush is one of the few bands and one of the first I remember to get to their status and level with very minimal help from radio or the music industry in general. They did it on their terms in their own way...critics be damned. They kept true to themselves and their fans. They might change to become more in tune with the times, but they still do it in their own way. And the fact that 3 such virtuoso musically gifted people got together in the first place...well, it's just a Sweet Miracle (to borrow from VT).

The same can be said for Metallica...they became HUGE in the Mtv era when everyone else was making it through images and videos. Metallica stuck to their guns and didn't even make a video until "One" off Justice, but they were already huge at that point...just by touring and recording. I repect Metallica a lot for simliar reasons I respect Rush

[Rush Cocky]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jun 3 2010, 12:52 PM)

BU2B has one of, if not the heaviest opening riff they have ever done .

This is correct. Then the rest of the song seems kind of blah to me. JMO.

[Rush Cocky]

[Merely Space]

Day 3, and I'm still loving them. They sound great to me. Really grooving on BU2B, which strikes me as a modern Temples of Syrinx. Shout out to Nick R. & Rich C. Also, I'm really grooving on the artwork. Nice job, Mr. Syme.

[Rush Cocky]

QUOTE (Merely Space @ Jun 3 2010, 01:50 PM)

Day 3, and I'm still loving them. They sound great to me. Really grooving on BU2B, which strikes me as a modern Temples of Syrinx. Shout out to Nick R. & Rich C. Also, I'm really grooving on the artwork. Nice job, Mr. Syme.

I have a much larger version of your avatar as my wallpaper.

[metaldad]

I really don't remember the last time i liked 2 new Rush songs right off the bat .

[Merely Space]

QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 3 2010, 12:51 PM)

QUOTE (Merely Space @ Jun 3 2010, 01:50 PM) Day 3, and I'm still loving them.  They sound great to me.  Really grooving on BU2B, which strikes me as a modern Temples of Syrinx.  Shout out to Nick R. & Rich C.  Also, I'm really grooving on the artwork.  Nice job, Mr. Syme. I have a much larger version of your avatar as my wallpaper. Excellent choice, sir!