The "Official" Genesis thread

[Hatchetaxe&saw]

QUOTE (Mystic Slipperman @ Sep 2 2010, 03:09 PM)

QUOTE (Hatchetaxe&saw @ Sep 2 2010, 07:52 AM) All of the Genesis boxes are examples of how to do box sets right. The interviews are fantastic, the live bits and pieces are great, the little documentaries. I love them all. They are incredible packages.     I wish I liked the mastering on them. Sorry, I'm old-fashioned. I hear ya. But they sound WAY better than the '94 Definitive Edition remasters. To these battered ears anyway.   But do they come close to the vinyl 1st pressings???? No way Jose.

[Mystic Slipperman]

QUOTE (Hatchetaxe&saw @ Sep 2 2010, 12:11 PM)

QUOTE (Mystic Slipperman @ Sep 2 2010, 03:09 PM) QUOTE (Hatchetaxe&saw @ Sep 2 2010, 07:52 AM) All of the Genesis boxes are examples of how to do box sets right. The interviews are fantastic, the live bits and pieces are great, the little documentaries. I love them all. They are incredible packages.     I wish I liked the mastering on them. Sorry, I'm old-fashioned. I hear ya. But they sound WAY better than the '94 Definitive Edition remasters. To these battered ears anyway.   But do they come close to the vinyl 1st pressings???? No way Jose. Agreed on both counts, brother.     I cherish my Genesis vinyl. Took a while but managed to get UK pressings of nearly everything from the 1970s and early 1980s.

[thelocator]

Slippy, how goes it?...I had '...ATTWT' kickin' on the stereo just a few hours back. Remember how much I detested this recording alls-a-ways back when?

 

The reason why I was so vehemently opposed to this sucka was basically because of the manner in which I introduced myself to the material...I didn't just select that bithc at random, nor did I select it in some simple, chronological order.

 

I had honed in on this title, but had come in from both opposing ends at the same time...Let me explain...'cause yuv been left a lil' 'tarded from The Goober Show tonight.

 

I had learned all of the Genesis catalog up to 'Trick'...beginning with Nursery Cryme though (hadn't begun with Trespass or Revelations. wouldn't know that stuff for some time.)....and I knew all of the 80's Pop stuff from both, hearing it on 'the radio'all the time growing up, and also by purchasing the 'Turn It On Again' Hits Collection, along with both Duke and Abacab...downloaded the 'Three Sides' live joint.

 

So, here I am doing the 70's thing sequentially, and doing the 80s thing somewhat in a reverse chronological order...I hadn't heard either Wind and Wuthering or '...ATTWT' yet. So, one day I go for that title...I go for 'And Then Three'. Guess that I mighta been a bit more interested in the band's first take as a Trio than their last take as a quartet...Dunno exactly know what guided my decision to go for that '78 collection first.

 

There's no way to accurately describe what I felt here, especially to get it across to someone like yourself who's been well acquainted with the entire Genesis catalog for so damn long that you can't remember how each one of the individual titles made you feel at their point of introduction...Dig?

 

On that first exposure I was thoroughly mortified...I thought that it was the most horrific, undefined, unrefined, unfocused mess of confused musicianship that was ever pressed to vinyl...It didn't make any sense to me whatsoever...Why would a band deliberately sound like this...lol...

 

Remember, for me, I was already hooked on the Gabriel-era of the band, totally partial to that stuff...I had embraced 'Trick Of The Tail' already, but that's if for the second half of the 70's...And, Trick had much in common with the last segment of the Gabriel era.

 

And, the only other stuff that I knew was their 80's material....I was NOT aquainted with ANY of the transitional material, and I had mistakenly jumped right over the bridge of 'Wind and Wuthering'...

 

Needless to say that '...And Then There Were Three' took some time getting use to...It really struck me as an abomination of sound the first time I heard it...Probably has much to do with trying to take in twenty years of diversified sound experiments, all within a two year time frame. Too much too soon, I think.

 

But, long story short (short(er)), I finally loosened up and embraced much of the album...Eventually, the music began to 'make sense' in my mind, and, more importantly, make sense within the scheme of the Genesis storyline...

 

I really do like much of the recording now...Nowhere as much as I like 'Wind and Wuthering', which I introduced myself to next, before finally 'Trespass', and then 'Revelations', lastly.

 

But, '...ATTWT' really had rubbed me the wrong way initially...Each Prog band from the 70's had some real difficulty reinventing themselves and staying 'relevant' towards the end of that decade and the beginning of the next...Genesis suceeded where many groups couldn't transistion at all...I applaud them...

 

Hey, what about the track, 'The Day The Lights Went Out' from the '...ATTWT' sessions...Why do you think they left this one off the album proper? I think that it might be the catchiest single-like material of the entire batch...Why was it left off the record? Did it end up as the B-Side to something? What a catchy lil' tune.

 

 

[Mystic Slipperman]

Hey bro-

 

You're not alone. A lot of people were mortified by ATTW3 when it was released!!

 

 

Interesting that you got into the Genesis catalog the way in which you did. My buying of their music was literally all over the place. I've tried to remember the order, but it went something like this:

 

 

Genesis s/t - upon release in 1983.

 

then

 

heard Invisible Touch, Duke, Abacab, and Nursery Cryme (!) in the summer of 1986 courtesy of friends.

 

Dec 1986 - bought The Lamb

 

between Xmas and New Years of that year - got Invisible, Duke, Abacab, Trick, and And Then...

 

Jan-Feb 1987 - bought Three Sides Live, Selling England, Wind & Wuthering

 

Spring 1987 - bought Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot

 

Summer 1987 - bought Seconds Out and Genesis Live

 

Didn't get Trespass or Revelations until 1989 or so?! Not 100% sure.

 

 

So you see it was a big holy mess.

 

As a result, I was really used to hearing a different thing on each Genesis album. so I took to most of ATTW3 right away. Some weak tracks, absolutely...but some strong ones too. Transitional indeed!!!

 

And there's no doubt that the musicianship was a lot different at that point. Rutherford deciding to absorb all the guitar and bass roles was a big move. He's never been a great lead player (although he got better over time), so that affects the overall sonic palette in a HUGE way.

 

Banks decided to fill all that missing guitar space with more keyboards...so you get a dense record with great bass playing and not-as-great lead guitar playing.

 

That said, I love the writing of many of the tracks...and that's just the thing. Genesis has always been more of a writers band than a players band, even though they all improved over the years and had great people with them on tour. For a long time it seems like Phil was the most technically accomplished of the band. Daryl and Chester really challenged the other guys to step up their game and that's why they were such a kickass live band in the early 1980s.

 

 

Re: The Day The Light Went Out: It was released as a B-side in the UK and Europe for one of the ATTW3 tunes (either Many Too Many or Motherlode.. I think it was Many). I dig that tune too...it was an extra from the ATTW3 sessions, and I wouldn't have at all minded if it had been on the album instead of Scenes from a Night's Dream or Ballad of Big.

 

One BIG whopping thing about ATTW3 is that the music really came alive on tour. If you can find yourself a 1978 show (Knebworth, Houston, or Chicago are all great), by all means, download one of 'em and check it out. That tour has never been properly represented in an official release and they were Smokin' hot. You can hear a considerable difference between the studio and live versions in terms of energy, and Daryl/Chester make all the difference in that.

[thelocator]

Wow, you really did jump around a lot...and you do seem to remember much about when certain things were purchased...But, I'd really be astonished to learn if you can remember how each of these titles made you feel, initiallly, upon purchase...like what I had mentiond to you about my own experience with ATTW3.

 

And, it looks like you've known the entire GENESIS catalog for a good twenty years or so...For me, the whole thing started sometime shortly after when 'the towers fell'...I first took out both Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot from my local library, along with various Jazz titles. I Remember that time distinctly because of the somber mood of the country...all the flag-waving and general anger that someone had to pay, had to be invaded.

 

Well, I made myself copies of those two titles and listened to them religiously, along with the early Jethro Tull that I was getting into semi-simultaneously...Here's one thing which you might or might not remember about your first introduction to early Genesis...Peter Gabriel's vocal delivery was completely unlike anything found in contemporary, mainstream music...

 

Not only is the specific cadence of the early Gabriel-led Genesis FAR REMOVED from anything from the 80's, it's far removed from all the other, early 70's Prog Rock to...One of the first things I remember about this band is how long it took for me to get accustomed to Gabriel's vocal delivery...It was so strange and so far outside of the box, so far away from a simple, 4/4ths lyrical telling.

 

People like us who listen to a bunch of progressive music take this all for granted after a while because our ears have developed greatly...But, every once in a while we're reminded of how 'the layman' reacts to music of great sophistication...About a month of so ago, I had a friend's younger brother stop by the house, asking me what was new and cool in new music...I didn't have any idea how small his musical vocabulary actualy was. I didn't even give it a thought that he wasn't even remotely close to what the level of stuff I'm used to.

 

I gave him the band, Baroness...This band is something akin to the very popular 'progressive sludge-metal' group, Mastodon...He gave me back the CD a couple days later, stating that there had to be something wrong with the drummer, that his timing was 'all off'...LOL! That's how he described it...Since he had no prior experience with progressive music of any sort, he thought that something had to be wrong with the musicians themselves and that they 'sucked' in some way because they couldn't stay in simple, 4/4ths time...lol...How funny is that?

 

Well, this is something similar to how I reacted to the rhythmic cadence of Peter Gabriel vocal delivery on both Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot...It was so original, and so unorthodox compared to everything around it, that it took some real time to fully embrace...I also take Jethro Tull for granted now too, be Ian Anderson has probably THE most unique vocal deliveries of all vocalist, from any genre...HIS is so brilliant, as to think of somewhat as Idiot-Savant...It's was so genius that it seemed outside the scope of 'normal' musical ideas.

 

Well, I can go on all night with how Genesis has effected me and changed me brain configs, and I would certainly love to...but, if I blow me entire nugget all in one sitting, then what will we talk of in the future...lol...The next thing I picked up was a 'Definitive Edition Remaster' of 'The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway', right before heading over to my Aunt's house to paint...Remember that well...Getting accustomed to that strange and wonderful piece while painting and smoking a lil' Mary Jane...my dear, now departed Aunt telling me to lower the music.

 

 

[realomind]

It's really nice to see a Genesis thread in here, I know they got a bad rap from some folks and often were considered unhip. Genesis were my first favourite band back in high school and I went through a period of going nuts with merchandise, buying up everything and anything I could get my hands on. Used to spend some considerable time going 'round the record fairs too, I love the art work on the 70's Genesis albums.

 

I dug a lot of the solo/side project albums too, so it was cool to see them get a mention here.

 

I have the Brand X 'Unorthodox Behaviour' lp which is well worth a listen and can agree that Tony Banks' 'A Curious Feeling' is also worth getting too. I remember Tony saying in an interview somewhere that he never really understood why his solo work was never as popular as the other member's work (from a Genesis fans point of view) given that his songs were really the most similar musically to Genesis, for obvious reasons.

 

Oddly enough, the first Genesis album I bought that would then determine whether or not I would buy the others, was '...And then there were three'! Looking back on it, it's strange, because it's kind of on it's own really in terms of the overall sound of the album compared to others. But, I really dug it, especially the opening track 'Down and Out', loved that!

 

Ah memories, lol!

 

Incidentally, my parents first met each other at a Genesis concert! How could I not end up a fan!

Edited September 4, 2010 by realomind

[losingit2k]

What ever happened to the reunion with Peter Gabriel and Steve Hacket? Is that scheduled for 2011 or What?

 

[Mystic Slipperman]

Locatorrrrrrrrrrrrrr........

 

I do remember some of them there details of how each of those releases hit me. Not every detail of course, but lots of 'em. Will break 'em down a bit when I have more time to do so!

[thelocator]

QUOTE (realomind @ Sep 4 2010, 12:56 PM)

It's really nice to see a Genesis thread in here, I know they got a bad rap from some folks and often were considered unhip.  Genesis were my first favourite band back in high school and I went through a period of going nuts with merchandise, buying up everything and anything I could get my hands on.  Used to spend some considerable time going 'round the record fairs too, I love the art work on the 70's Genesis albums. I dug a lot of the solo/side project albums too, so it was cool to see them get a mention here.  I have the Brand X 'Unorthodox Behaviour' lp which is well worth a listen and can agree that Tony Banks' 'A Curious Feeling' is also worth getting too.  I remember Tony saying in an interview somewhere that he never really understood why his solo work was never as popular as the other member's work (from a Genesis fans point of view) given that his songs were really the most similar musically to Genesis, for obvious reasons. Oddly enough, the first Genesis album I bought that would then determine whether or not I would buy the others, was '...And then there were three'!  Looking back on it, it's strange, because it's kind of on it's own really in terms of the overall sound of the album compared to others.  But, I really dug it, especially the opening track 'Down and Out', loved that! Ah memories, lol! Incidentally, my parents first met each other at a Genesis concert!  How could I not end up a fan!

 

You are a man of great, worldly talent and taste...Genesis merchandising? Which planet was all that stuff featured on? It sure is strange that ATTW3 was your first intro to the band, and you still stuck around for more, after being subjected to that as your first initial backfire/mishap...I kid...You're a better man than myself, because I believe that I would have thrown in the towel right there, my good man...I would have given up and lost out because of it...The fact that your parents are Genesis fans themselves, and that one of their shows directly led to your existence on this planet kinda ensures the depth of your gratitude and the extent of your fandom...

 

Guys like Rutherford and Banks are basically 'extended family' to a guy like you, man. Was yer mum a party girl back in those days? Maybe yer real dad is maybe either Mike or Tony, after all...Oh, no!...Did I cross a line there?...Only kidding, mate...You'd know it immediately if you were related to Phil C. though, right? ...You'd bear all the makings and markings of that frumpy little critter's face and head all the days of yer miserable life...lol.

 

I'm so very happy to hear that yer a fan of the Brand X titles...I am as well...That's a really great album you mention there...Morrocan Roll is another one...But, special attention was given to the '79 release, 'Product', because this is the one to feature Phil talent as a vocalist, as well as the obligatory, awesome drum work...Plus, a few of the instrumental passages here are also very Genesis-inspired...at least to my ears...and deliberately so, I assume, since Fusion bands are usually in dire need of a following, a fan base...and certainly wouldn't mind borrowing from Phil's big ass army of banditos...There's a piece called, "Dance of The Illegal Aliens" appearing on 'Product' that must be some type of 'inside joke' between the members of that BX lineup, and maybe, somehow the joke carried over to Genesis...I'd love to know the story behind this one...Fill us in if you have any info on the subject.

 

We both have to work on that Mystic Slipperman character down below here...He wants to enjoy the works of BX, but his natural tendency, especially now at the cusp of middle-age, is to avoid all things 'too exciting' and/or 'busy/flashy'...so the musicianship exhibited here on the BX titles might actually fall on the wrong side of the cutoff line...Who woulda thunk that something Phil Collins did in his professional life might perhaps be too saturated with superfluous msuical notes and bearing too much of the heavy, hardcore 'Rototom' action...ahahahaha...."Hey, who snuck all these extra drums back here when I was out in the john?"

 

QUOTE (Mystic Slipperman @ Sep 5 2010, 03:20 PM)

Locatorrrrrrrrrrrrrr........ I do remember some of them there details of how each of those releases hit me. Not every detail of course, but lots of 'em.  Will break 'em down a bit when I have more time to do so!

 

I'm giving you to next Thursday to turn in a coherent paper on a topic of yer choosiing...otherwise you repeat the semester...again...

 

I would offer extra points if you addressed the matter of the Rare Bird/Wishbone Ash/Mr. Albert Show/Badger thingermajigger from the recent PM...exchanging thoughts as those thoughts arise, in a to and fro rhythm...

 

 

 

[realomind]

[thelocator]

QUOTE (realomind @ Sep 7 2010, 09:37 AM)

Thanks for the entertaining reply Locator...c'ept for one minor issue...i'm a woman not a bloke no big deal, I can see why you'd think otherwise in terms of musical taste! Yeah despite ATTWT I stuck with 'em, glad I did. Sadly I can't add anything regarding the story behind 'Dance of the illegal aliens'; I'll need to look into that one myself. I think it's safe to say that no Genesis members were in involved in the making of me (in the most literal sense), I very much take after my dad, who's also a guitarist himself and back in the seventies was in an obscure prog/psych band called Captain Marryat, that's as rock'n'roll as it gets tho' i'm afraid. I'll have to look into getting hold of 'Product', i'm guessing it's tricky to find, on vinyl anyway.

Yikes! When I said, "You are a man of great, worldly talent and taste."...I obviously mean to say a'fan'...easy mistake, please don't hold it against me...Ya know, a female interested in Brand X is not exactly a common occurence, ya know. But, you'd do well to get yerself 'Product' for the reasons stated above...Phil sings two tracks on that title, as well as on the Ant Phillips' 77 release...,with ONE track sung by him on the original Hackett outing...I can't remember now if you had already acknowledged that both the Phillips and Hackett releases are bigtime Genesis-leaning in their presentation...Any fan of 70's Genesis would do well with either one...and do much beter with both. I'll have to mention yer Dad's band name to Rushgoober, our resident Psych-Prog professional who specializes in the obscure.

 

 

 

 

 

[thelocator]

I'm actually picking up this line of thought from the 'random musical ideas' thread...It has to do with the BX thing, pertaining to their one and only stroke at Pop Culture success...I just read somethin from a web article that was a lil' 'tarded ...I see that Brand X actually released two singles from their 'Product' album, back in 1979...a fairly unheard of move for a Fusion outfit.

 

But, the two pieces in questions are certainly not Jazz Fusion wig-out selections, but rather pretty straightforward and highly catchy 'songs'...Phil Collins sings on both 'Don't Make Waves' and 'Soho'....The first really had some serious hit' potential...and, obviously, both tracks were believed in enough to be given the green light as singles...That's all strange stuff, man.

 

The crappy thing about this whole deal is that neither Single made a dent on the charts...and I'm bettin' that they never really received much air-time at all during that small 'window' of hopeful opportunity...I've never heard neither tune on the radio ever, at any time, during any era, and I'm assuming that the songs were just never given more than a few late-night airings way back in the day.

 

I guess that in this particular example, the matter was all about that thing they call 'timing'...TIMING IS EVERYTHING...The saying is just so all-encompassing that it doesn't even require any context, or even a lead-in sentence...lol...The very following year was 1980, followed probably by '81 and '82....and soon radio would give massive airplay to all the Genesis and Collins solo material from this entire period... * The Brand X Singles would have also ridden this massively titanic wave if they had been delivered a mere 12 to 18 months later. Total and ugly truth of the matter.

 

It's a shame, but there's plen-ty other examples of bands just missing out on a big-ass wave due to poor 'timing'...Instantly brings to mind the example of, 'Temple of the Dog'...That was the Supergroup containing members from both Pearl Jam and Soundgarden...Rememer this band?...But, the album, and it's two singles were actually released about six to eight months prior to the debut Pearl Jam album breaking bigtime and flooding the airwaves with ust tune upon tune of hit singles.

 

The 'Temple of the Dog' album actually did enjoy a spike in airplay after most American DJs had already utilized each and every tune on the debut Pearl Jam affair...And, the album's material saw yet another, later surge when Soundgarden broke big with their Superunknown album...Unlike the Brand X 'Product' LP, the 'Temple of the Dog' album now enjoys classic status...But, it was another shining example of the right tunes hitting at the wrong time.

 

I've said this before, up top, with other posts, but it needs reiteration...Brand X's 'Product' release IS for anyone who simply adores late-70's-era Genesis....A similar brand of instrumental prowess is evident on many of the instrumentla pieces, and the two 'vocal tracks' which wound up as 'singles' are things which would certainly entice fans of early 80's Phil Collins and Genesis...Get the dang album.

 

 

[Mystic Slipperman]

OK, some random thoughts:

 

THe first time I heard "The Lamb": It was a major WTF moment. I wasn't sure if I liked what I was hearing (other than the very first song) but I was intrigued. By listen number 3 I was hooked, forever.

 

 

When I heard the other 1970s-era albums each for the first time, I was just sucked into whatever world they were creating. All of 'em. Trespass. Nursery Cryme. Foxtrot. Selling England. Trick. Wind.

 

With And Then There were Three I initially thought the disc was faulty because of the odd rhythm of Down & Out. After a short while I "got* the groove.

 

The 1980s records I knew of prior to this point, so they are left out of this discussion.

[metaldad]

Went to FYE today and found... And Then There Were Three and Duke for $6.99 each and they are the c.d./d.v.d. remasters I forgot how good ...And Then really was .

[circumstantial tree]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Oct 12 2010, 06:54 PM)

Went to FYE today and found... And Then There Were Three and Duke for $6.99 each and they are the c.d./d.v.d. remasters I forgot how good ...And Then really was .

I love that album. Although, I can't identify the songs by title. Don't know why.

[Gompers]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Oct 12 2010, 06:54 PM)

Went to FYE today and found... And Then There Were Three and Duke for $6.99 each and they are the c.d./d.v.d. remasters I forgot how good ...And Then really was .

I like most of ATTW3. Deep in the Motherload is still one of my favorite songs by Genesis. But I am in the minority in thinking Genesis had better music with PG gone. That is, up until Invisible Touch. I do like WCD quite a bit though.

[Silas Lang]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Oct 12 2010, 05:54 PM)

Went to FYE today and found... And Then There Were Three and Duke for $6.99 each and they are the c.d./d.v.d. remasters   I forgot how good ...And Then really was .

It's good but not as good as Duke or Yes' Tormato (released the same year).

[metaldad]

[spacement]

QUOTE (thelocator @ Sep 9 2010, 11:27 PM)

I've said this before, up top, with other posts, but it needs reiteration...Brand X's 'Product' release IS for anyone who simply adores late-70's-era Genesis....A similar brand of instrumental prowess is evident on many of the instrumentla pieces, and the two 'vocal tracks' which wound up as 'singles' are things which would certainly entice fans of early 80's Phil Collins and Genesis...Get the dang album.

I think Product is a great album. "And So To F" is probably my favorite Brand X tune (not saying it's their best, just my favorite). I was shocked when Phil played that song on his first solo tour. You can definitely hear parts of "Duke's End" in it.

[spacement]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Oct 12 2010, 05:54 PM)

Went to FYE today and found... And Then There Were Three and Duke for $6.99 each and they are the c.d./d.v.d. remasters I forgot how good ...And Then really was .

Lots of great percussion on And Then There Were Three. It's not up front in the mix but when you break it down Phil was playing some great percussive pieces along with his drumming.

 

Duke is my favorite Genesis album. I'll put "Duke's Travels/Duke's End" up against any Genesis song. To me that was their best instrumental. Takes my mind on a journey every time I hear.

[Silas Lang]

[The Cat 3]

With all of the love Genesis has been receiving here on TRF, I thought I'd resurrect this old thread.

 

I just began a Genesis listening marathon and am listening to all of their albums, studio and live (and a few choice boots), in chronological order.

 

It has been an amazing trip so far.

 

What are your thoughts, some Genesis related memories, etc?

[bathory]

I like the little nods to the "old days" you can find in the band's 80s work. stuff like dukes travels/dukes end, dodo/lurker, home by the sea 1 and 2.

[Red Dwarf]

Definitely one of my greatest experiences was having the opportunity to see Genesis on their Turn It On Again Tour at Manchester,England in 2007! A night I'll never forget! However i was disappointed at some of their choices of songs.I'm pretty sure the band knew that this was going to be the last time they would perform as G,so I was hoping they'd treat us to some older songs.Reject Land of Confusion,Throwing it all Away, Hold on my Heart,and maybe replace it with The Lady Lies,The Musical Box, or the like! That night they're were numerous shouts for Supper's Ready,but that didn't happen!

Still it was a special night,and one I'll always look back on with great memories!

[BigBob]

A couple years ago, I was doing a section hike through the AT in Virginia. Anyways I came to this nice overlook in the James River Face Wilderness, that overlooked Arnold Valley. It was an overcast fall day, but just as I got the overlook, there was a break in the clouds and sunbeam came bolting down and covered the valley. It was an inspiring scene. So much, that I shouted 'Jerusalem' like Peter Gabriel did in 'Suppers Ready'. Anyways I thought I was by myself when 2 hikers just appeared right beside after I yelled it out. I have no idea what they were thinking, but they promptly turned around and headed the opposite direction I was heading.