New Foo Fighters album this June.

[bluefox4000]

6 minutes ago, The Analog Cub said:

 

Greg Kurstin is guilty of this everywhere. He thinks clipped/overly-reverbed mixing sounds good. The fantastic Concrete and Gold album has this problem too.

 

 

yea i know his work.  I was playing it at a super low volume yesterday as a test.  even at low.  it STILL is distorted and clipped.  Can't really differentiate instruments.

 

How on earth that by NOW.  years later.  We're still seeing this pop up repeatedly. i don't know.  It's just sound soup. that's all it is.

 

Mick

Edited June 26, 2023 by bluefox4000

[J2112YYZ]

2 hours ago, bluefox4000 said:

 

 

yea i know his work.  I was playing it at a super low volume yesterday as a test.  even at low.  it STILL is distorted and clipped.  Can't really differentiate instruments.

 

How on earth that by NOW.  years later.  We're still seeing this pop up repeatedly. i don't know.  It's just sound soup. that's all it is.

 

Mick

 

Does it have to do with studio equipment? Is everywhere just set up with the most modern stuff and that's what has to be used and there's nothing that can be done about it? I'm just taking a guess here because it's been going on for so long and I know nothing about recording music in a studio.

[The Analog Cub]

Just now, J2112YYZ said:

 

Does it have to do with studio equipment? Is everywhere just set up with the most modern stuff and that's what has to be used and there's nothing that can be done about it? I'm just taking a guess here because it's been going on for so long and I know nothing about recording music in a studio.

 

I think part of it is the artists' fault. The loudness war has been a problem for a while. Rush deep-fried the Vapor Trails original mix, and Rick Rubin has fried so many albums. Death Magnetic is a fantastic Metallica album that rapes your ears because James and Rick Rubin probably have hearing loss and thought "man this sounds quiet let's keep cranking it!"

[stoopid]

7 minutes ago, The Analog Cub said:

 

I think part of it is the artists' fault. The loudness war has been a problem for a while. Rush deep-fried the Vapor Trails original mix, and Rick Rubin has fried so many albums. Death Magnetic is a fantastic Metallica album that rapes your ears because James and Rick Rubin probably have hearing loss and thought "man this sounds quiet let's keep cranking it!"

 

That's not entirely how the process works (most of the 'frying' is done at the mastering stage).  Artists and management can and sometimes do play a role in the outcome of the album, but more often than not the mix is sent upstream to the mastering engineer then passed over to the record label to start distribution.  Some artists get some input at that second to last step, many do not.

 

"Loud" doesn't always equate to bad nowadays, there's techniques and tools employed by some engineers that can give albums presence (loudness) but not lose all the detail.  I'd say we're at the 50/50 point with records sounding good or bad, whereas when the tools and techniques used during the first decade of the loudness wars were a bit behind and quality suffered more.

 

I haven't heard the new Foos album yet (it's in queue), so I'm not specifically speaking only to it.

Edited June 26, 2023 by stoopid

[The Analog Cub]

2 minutes ago, stoopid said:

 

That's not entirely how the process works (most of the 'frying' is done at the mastering stage).  Artists and management can and sometimes do play a role in the outcome of the album, but more often than not the mix is sent upstream to the mastering engineer then passed over to the record label to start distribution.  Some artists get some input at that second to last step, many do not.

 

 

Appreciate this, thanks.

[bluefox4000]

9 minutes ago, The Analog Cub said:

 

I think part of it is the artists' fault. The loudness war has been a problem for a while. Rush deep-fried the Vapor Trails original mix, and Rick Rubin has fried so many albums. Death Magnetic is a fantastic Metallica album that rapes your ears because James and Rick Rubin probably have hearing loss and thought "man this sounds quiet let's keep cranking it!"

 

 

exactly man. Don't forget most of thes guys have shit hearing anyway.  Years of playing booming stadiums with music at deafening levels.

 

Mick

Edited June 26, 2023 by bluefox4000

[stoopid]

14 minutes ago, bluefox4000 said:

 

 

Don't forget most of thes guys have shit hearing anyway.  Years of playing booming stadiums with music at deafening levels.

 

Mick

 

Definitely.  That's why most defer to the producer and engineer to do the tweaking.

 

Most of the artists who are involved in the mixing and mastering stages have a specific vision for the songs and the sound, and most of them are credible as solo artists.  Most bands don't bother being that engaged, but rather focus on the writing and performing (Metallica is definitely one of those bands).  So that is to say, there's a handful of artists we can think of that produce high bar recordings, and that's what makes them the exception.  The rest are just performers and the decisions for how the music sounds in the end isn't of their utmost concern.

Edited June 26, 2023 by stoopid

[bluefox4000]

Steve lukathar new album as well.  Fantastic songs marred by atrocious sound. Don't tell steve this.  he will bitch you out.

 

Mick

 

 

[stoopid]

Of the artists I follow, examples of exceptional mixing done by them or them being heavily involved would be Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree, Gojira (they have their own studio), and Devin Townsend (also now has his own studio).

[Entre_Perpetuo]

I don’t mind a bad mix or master if its defects enhance the music for me.  For instance, the latest Mastodon has a very murky sound quality to it, but it’s that very quality that lends it much of it’s haunted and chilling atmosphere, which makes me dig it. Three Cheers For Sweet Revenge by My Chemical Romance is basically a thorn bush of sonic assaults, with little room for anything to breathe, but after a few listens I start picking out guitars from each other and bass from drums and all the backing vocals come a bit untangled and the result looses none of the abrasiveness while still allowing me to dig into the details. Not sure how they did that one, but it’s one example I really like. My problem arises when something is mixed and mastered to sound just utterly radio sterile (with similarly sterile tunes and performances). I mean a lot further than The Foos most of the time. Stuff like Nickelback, where everything is butt ugly for the sake of radio. Yuck.

[The Analog Cub]

6 hours ago, stoopid said:

Of the artists I follow, examples of exceptional mixing done by them or them being heavily involved would be Steven Wilson/Porcupine Tree, Gojira (they have their own studio), and Devin Townsend (also now has his own studio).

 

Couldn't agree more on SW or Devy. Those two can really make anything sound good even if the songs aren't always good.

[J2112YYZ]

It's interesting to bring up the whole hearing loss thing. I never thought about that side of it before. But it does make some sense. There are albums from younger bands that I listen to, I'm guessing their hearing is still good and they may be involved more in the mixing process, where the album sounds really good and doesn't suffer from the same issues as Vapor Trails, Death Magnetic and the new Foo Fighters does.

[BastillePark]

1 minute ago, J2112YYZ said:

It's interesting to bring up the whole hearing loss thing. I never thought about that side of it before. But it does make some sense. There are albums from younger bands that I listen to, I'm guessing their hearing is still good and they may be involved more in the mixing process, where the album sounds really good and doesn't suffer from the same issues as Vapor Trails, Death Magnetic and the new Foo Fighters does.

I have a fair amount of tinnitus and can't hear above about 11k and this album sounds like crap. If they have so much hearing loss they can't hear how terrible it sounds they wouldn't be able to carry on a normal conversation without hearing aids.

[J2112YYZ]

7 hours ago, BastillePark said:

I have a fair amount of tinnitus and can't hear above about 11k and this album sounds like crap. If they have so much hearing loss they can't hear how terrible it sounds they wouldn't be able to carry on a normal conversation without hearing aids.

 

You just described Dave Grohl. I think he's completely deaf or close to it in one of his ears. He stupidly doesn't use in ear monitors live so he has killed his hearing. He said he often has to read lips now. Somehow he can still hear little things in the songs enough in order to perform live.

 

Production issues aside, I still think it's a fantastic album.

Edited June 27, 2023 by J2112YYZ

[Entre_Perpetuo]

34 minutes ago, J2112YYZ said:

 

You just described Dave Grohl. I think he's completely deaf or close to it in one of his ears. He stupidly doesn't use in ear monitors live so he has killed his hearing. He said he often has to read lips now. Somehow he can still hear little things in the songs enough in order to perform live.

 

Production issues aside, I still think it's a fantastic album.

I have a dumb take here, but if Dave doesn’t want to use in ears because they’re too much of a barrier between him and the audience, then I don’t want him to either. His hearing is screwed and only getting worse, but by all accounts their live shows are some of the best you could ever hope to see, and I have to imagine that feeling of total connection between Dave and the fans is a big reason why. His perogative of course.

[J2112YYZ]

2 hours ago, Entre_Perpetuo said:

I have a dumb take here, but if Dave doesn’t want to use in ears because they’re too much of a barrier between him and the audience, then I don’t want him to either. His hearing is screwed and only getting worse, but by all accounts their live shows are some of the best you could ever hope to see, and I have to imagine that feeling of total connection between Dave and the fans is a big reason why. His perogative of course.

 

Yeah, it's pretty much pointless now for him to do it now. The damage has been done. He has the money to get a top of the line hearing aid when that needs to happen. My dad lost his hearing from years of working in a factory. The company hooked him up with a really good hearing aid. He can pick up little details nicely. He said it was like getting a new pair of ears.

[Segue Myles]

On 6/26/2023 at 5:48 PM, The Analog Cub said:

 

Greg Kurstin is guilty of this everywhere. He thinks clipped/overly-reverbed mixing sounds good. The fantastic Concrete and Gold album has this problem too.

I love Concrete And Gold. 

 

Their production issues don't bother me too much. Unfortunately I think at this point most modern rock listeners are used to it

[bluefox4000]

6 hours ago, Segue Myles said:

I love Concrete And Gold. 

 

Their production issues don't bother me too much. Unfortunately I think at this point most modern rock listeners are used to it

 

 

it depends on the album for me honestly.

 

Like i can admit the new foos is their best matierial in a while. 

 

but man that job REALLY detracts.  For me.......if it doesn't for you that's wonderful but man it really gets to me how muddied and clutered it all is.

 

Original Vapor Trails.  The New Lukathar. It just boggles my mind this gets churned out still.  

 

Honestly it's sad that we should be just "used too it"

 

Mick

Edited June 28, 2023 by bluefox4000

[Segue Myles]

1 hour ago, bluefox4000 said:

 

 

it depends on the album for me honestly.

 

Like i can admit the new foos is their best matierial in a while. 

 

but man that job REALLY detracts.  For me.......if it doesn't for you that's wonderful but man it really gets to me how muddied and clutered it all is.

 

Original Vapor Trails.  The New Lukathar. It just boggles my mind this gets churned out still.  

 

Honestly it's sad that we should be just "used too it"

 

Mick

I think the saddest thing is that I'm so used to it that I didn't even notice until it was pointed out lmao

 

And it got me thinking how few albums I can name that have a good sound.

 

Recent Haken, Dream Theater, Leprous, I also think their is good production and mixing on the new Avenged Sevenfold (and thats a very layered and dense record)...and that's about it.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Segue Myles

[bluefox4000]

5 minutes ago, Segue Myles said:

I think the saddest thing is that I'm so used to it that I didn't even notice until it was pointed out lmao

 

And it got me thinking how few albums I can name that have a good sound.

 

Recent Haken, Dream Theater, Leprous, I also think their is good production and mixing on the new Avenged Sevenfold (and thats a very layered and dense record)...and that's about it.

 

 

Haken usually have good production........mosrly.  although the Virus album and that other one before it was very modern and cluttered.

 

Leprous really seem to care.  their albums have great soundscapes.

 

Mick

[Segue Myles]

5 minutes ago, bluefox4000 said:

 

 

Haken usually have good production........mosrly.  although the Virus album and that other one before it was very modern and cluttered.

 

Leprous really seem to care.  their albums have great soundscapes.

 

Mick

The last DT might be their BEST EVER production.

[bluefox4000]

Just now, Segue Myles said:

The last DT might be their BEST EVER production.

 

that's the kind of production we need more of IMO. everything on that album just pops to my ears.  Every instrument has it's own space to breathe.

 

reminded me of a good clean 70's production (cause the 70's had it's shit sounding albums too let's not fool ourselves lol)

 

Mick

[Entre_Perpetuo]

Back to the new Foos album.

 

 

I came back around to it today for the first time since right after it came out.  Either I’m going to need more time with better equipment to hear the production issues everyone’s talking about or I just don’t mind them. I guess it’s a bit dense, but to me that’s what a Foo Fighters record should sound like. Anyway. The songs. The songs. These songs are so full of heart and guts and passion and grief. It feels like I’m missing the point to call them great, because it can’t really matter if they’re great or not, they’re carrying much more than they should have to. But they do it. The end of the record in particular is just crushing. I don’t just mean the guitars, though the distortion they conjure up is otherworldly. But the songs themselves are heavy, emotionally.  I’ve never gone to Foo Fighters for poetry, but sometimes Dave manages it anyway. It’s pained and it’s true. 

[bluefox4000]

3 minutes ago, Entre_Perpetuo said:

Back to the new Foos album.

 

 

I came back around to it today for the first time since right after it came out.  Either I’m going to need more time with better equipment to hear the production issues everyone’s talking about or I just don’t mind them. I guess it’s a bit dense, but to me that’s what a Foo Fighters record should sound like. Anyway. The songs. The songs. These songs are so full of heart and guts and passion and grief. It feels like I’m missing the point to call them great, because it can’t really matter if they’re great or not, they’re carrying much more than they should have to. But they do it. The end of the record in particular is just crushing. I don’t just mean the guitars, though the distortion they conjure up is otherworldly. But the songs themselves are heavy, emotionally.  I’ve never gone to Foo Fighters for poetry, but sometimes Dave manages it anyway. It’s pained and it’s true. 

 

 

taking away the sound.  whatever else i said i still think it's their best batch of songs in a while.  some really really heartfelt and well crafted songs.

 

Mick

[Segue Myles]

1 hour ago, Entre_Perpetuo said:

Back to the new Foos album.

 

 

I came back around to it today for the first time since right after it came out.  Either I’m going to need more time with better equipment to hear the production issues everyone’s talking about or I just don’t mind them. I guess it’s a bit dense, but to me that’s what a Foo Fighters record should sound like. Anyway. The songs. The songs. These songs are so full of heart and guts and passion and grief. It feels like I’m missing the point to call them great, because it can’t really matter if they’re great or not, they’re carrying much more than they should have to. But they do it. The end of the record in particular is just crushing. I don’t just mean the guitars, though the distortion they conjure up is otherworldly. But the songs themselves are heavy, emotionally.  I’ve never gone to Foo Fighters for poetry, but sometimes Dave manages it anyway. It’s pained and it’s true. 

To be honest I'm the same as you. Sure I don't think it's award winning production, but nothing offends me as a listener, it seems about right for a Foos album.

 

Two albums that come to mind that challenged me a lot as a fan are Alter Bridge's The Last Hero and Lacuna Coil's Black Anima. I came to love TLH but BA is actually too brickwalled and LOUD to me, I find Vapor Trails far easier to get through. 

 

The latest Foos? Nothing gets in the way of the enjoyment for me.

 

But I get it