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#61 Knice

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 12:52 PM

Its amazing to me.  For a guy who really did have some hard blows, and yet found and created/blessed with a new family, baby, great career; he is still angry.  News flash Neil; everyone has tough times.  I know your inner-baby soul you mentioned on the last DVD was hurt; and I respect that, but bad stuff happens to good people all the time.  
Its interesting that he states he is "quietly resisting" when really it appears almost an agenda in the last few years and now albums.

Im disappointed because I grew up listening to these guys, and the lyrics were always as important as the music;  so I get some people saying, "well, then don't listen; or turn it off" but I am so excited to hear this next album; and I honestly feel its just going to bash and belittle my feelings on God and spirituality.  Not whining here, just kind of takes a little something out of the experience of a new Rush album.  

I have always felt for 30 years now, how incredibly intelligent/articulate Neil is; and yet it completely blows my mind how uneducated he is on Christianity.  He must be talking about the cook -a-dook fanatics, but in my Christian church that I try to attend weekly, its all about giving to those who don't, trying to think outside of ourselves, bringing my kids on Thanksgiving day to homeless shelters, forgiving those who screw us over and all around just trying to help me be a good man/husband/dad.  How he compares that to the MIDDLE EAST and terrorism on S&A, just baffled me. "middle east and the middle west" Yes, there are crazys but for the most part, I think people who are Christian are really just trying to make the world a better place.  It seems as if he was brought to a room and somebody tried to literally shove a bible down his throat and beat him or something.
Neil, please, we get it.  We respect your beliefs and your freedom to express;  but please stop making many of us feel "a little crazy" for believing in something that you are kind of belittling.
I will be bummed if the next album is another extension of his unresolved issues with Christians.
RUSH RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#62 Oracle

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 12:57 PM

QUOTE (liddybuck01 @ Jan 12 2012, 08:30 AM)
Neil is just doing what so many of us without religion try to do. get people to stop believing in man made story books and use some damn logic and reasoning. i, like Neil, go out of my way to make fun of Christianity. why? because it's ridiculous.

Ridiculous to you and to many, but what right have you (or anyone for that matter) to take people's beliefs and trample on them? Religion should always be a personal matter. So if someone says "God bless you" after you sneeze, do you go on a little rant about God? No, you should say "Thank you" and leave it at that.

As I see it, religion is always an inner and deep form of one's self. If you don't follow any religion, organized or unorganized, then good for you. If you DO follow any religion, then good for you. Just don't go around wearing it on your shoulder, because religion should only be shared in places of worship, where those who also believe can convene.  

#63 liddybuck01

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:01 PM

QUOTE (Oracle @ Jan 12 2012, 12:57 PM)
QUOTE (liddybuck01 @ Jan 12 2012, 08:30 AM)
Neil is just doing what so many of us without religion try to do. get people to stop believing in man made story books and use some damn logic and reasoning. i, like Neil, go out of my way to make fun of Christianity. why? because it's ridiculous.

Ridiculous to you and to many, but what right have you (or anyone for that matter) to take people's beliefs and trample on them? Religion should always be a personal matter. So if someone says "God bless you" after you sneeze, do you go on a little rant about God? No, you should say "Thank you" and leave it at that.

As I see it, religion is always an inner and deep form of one's self. If you don't follow any religion, organized or unorganized, then good for you. If you DO follow any religion, then good for you. Just don't go around wearing it on your shoulder, because religion should only be shared in places of worship, where those who also believe can convene.

I'm not that bad.if someone says bless you, I say thanks. If someone says merry Christmas or happy Easter, I say "you too".

And I completely agree with your second paragraph.

#64 HemispheresserehpsimeH

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:16 PM

QUOTE (Knice @ Jan 12 2012, 12:52 PM)
Its amazing to me.  For a guy who really did have some hard blows, and yet found and created/blessed with a new family, baby, great career; he is still angry.  News flash Neil; everyone has tough times.  I know your inner-baby soul you mentioned on the last DVD was hurt; and I respect that, but bad stuff happens to good people all the time.  
Its interesting that he states he is "quietly resisting" when really it appears almost an agenda in the last few years and now albums.

Im disappointed because I grew up listening to these guys, and the lyrics were always as important as the music;  so I get some people saying, "well, then don't listen; or turn it off" but I am so excited to hear this next album; and I honestly feel its just going to bash and belittle my feelings on God and spirituality.  Not whining here, just kind of takes a little something out of the experience of a new Rush album.  

I have always felt for 30 years now, how incredibly intelligent/articulate Neil is; and yet it completely blows my mind how uneducated he is on Christianity.  He must be talking about the cook -a-dook fanatics, but in my Christian church that I try to attend weekly, its all about giving to those who don't, trying to think outside of ourselves, bringing my kids on Thanksgiving day to homeless shelters, forgiving those who screw us over and all around just trying to help me be a good man/husband/dad.  How he compares that to the MIDDLE EAST and terrorism on S&A, just baffled me. "middle east and the middle west" Yes, there are crazys but for the most part, I think people who are Christian are really just trying to make the world a better place.  It seems as if he was brought to a room and somebody tried to literally shove a bible down his throat and beat him or something.
Neil, please, we get it.  We respect your beliefs and your freedom to express;  but please stop making many of us feel "a little crazy" for believing in something that you are kind of belittling.
I will be bummed if the next album is another extension of his unresolved issues with Christians.
RUSH RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I understand the wish to not be harped on by someone's views, especially through music, I just think you should wait for the music to speak for itself first before feeling that it will attack your beliefs. I'm not saying it won't attack what you believe in, but I just think that if you're going in to the music thinking that it's going to criticize what you believe in, you may not enjoy it as much at first.

I, like many people here, hope the lyrics are a little bit more lighthearted this time around, while still being thought-provoking. But at the same time, don't spoil it for yourself.

#65 Tony R

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:37 PM

So basically Peart should write stuff that he's no spiritual, emotional or intellectual connection to?
Mind you, I wouldn't baulk too much if he returned to sci-fi and simple metaphor.  

#66 Lerxster

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:43 PM

I would say if you're upset with Neil, and since Alex and Geddy endorse Neil's lyrics and have similar views, then you're upset with Rush. Neil gets 99.9% of the attention though since he's the lyricist and storyteller. Having read the majority of Neil's writings, I don't believe he goes out of his way (let alone tries) to insult anyone. But if he's going to write about how he feels (or write lyrics based on how he feels), then I suppose he's bound to upset people. And the internet is where you complain about it.

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#67 circumstantial tree

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:15 PM

I've already figured that if the new album is another rant on religion, I'm not going to buy it. Out with the old, as they say.

#68 upstateNYfan

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:31 PM

QUOTE (Knice @ Jan 12 2012, 12:52 PM)
Its amazing to me.  For a guy who really did have some hard blows, and yet found and created/blessed with a new family, baby, great career; he is still angry.  News flash Neil; everyone has tough times.  I know your inner-baby soul you mentioned on the last DVD was hurt; and I respect that, but bad stuff happens to good people all the time.  
Its interesting that he states he is "quietly resisting" when really it appears almost an agenda in the last few years and now albums.

Im disappointed because I grew up listening to these guys, and the lyrics were always as important as the music;  so I get some people saying, "well, then don't listen; or turn it off" but I am so excited to hear this next album; and I honestly feel its just going to bash and belittle my feelings on God and spirituality.  Not whining here, just kind of takes a little something out of the experience of a new Rush album.  

I have always felt for 30 years now, how incredibly intelligent/articulate Neil is; and yet it completely blows my mind how uneducated he is on Christianity.  He must be talking about the cook -a-dook fanatics, but in my Christian church that I try to attend weekly, its all about giving to those who don't, trying to think outside of ourselves, bringing my kids on Thanksgiving day to homeless shelters, forgiving those who screw us over and all around just trying to help me be a good man/husband/dad.  How he compares that to the MIDDLE EAST and terrorism on S&A, just baffled me. "middle east and the middle west" Yes, there are crazys but for the most part, I think people who are Christian are really just trying to make the world a better place.  It seems as if he was brought to a room and somebody tried to literally shove a bible down his throat and beat him or something.
Neil, please, we get it.  We respect your beliefs and your freedom to express;  but please stop making many of us feel "a little crazy" for believing in something that you are kind of belittling.
I will be bummed if the next album is another extension of his unresolved issues with Christians.
RUSH RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He doesn't seem angry at all. However he does articulate some disapproval or lack of understanding towards Christians.

Please re-read how he praises the brilliant Christopher Hitchens, and the quote from him he admires.

All this Neil bashing is curious to say the least.



#69 They Bow Defeated

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:54 PM

I can't understand this desire to tell Neil and Rush, as artists, to "SHUT UP and don't write about anything that offends my sensibilities!" angry.gif  Is it so hard to even listen to an alternate viewpoint?  As someone mentioned, we are inundated in the US with constant positive images of faith and belief, specifically Christianity.  Is it really so hard to hear a dissenting voice once in a while?  I think this mindset reflects the "echo chamber" culture we have now, where some can only tolerate news and opinions that strictly align with their beliefs.  Reminds me of the Priests of Syrinx. sad.gif

Regarding Neil's update, I thought these clues were pretty cool:

1.  Nick "conducting" Neil's drum takes with a baton!  Can't wait to see that on the DVD. tongue.gif  
2.  More "math rock" on a Rush album.  (“4-2-4-2-3-2-4-2-3-2-1-y” and “1-3-1-5-1-4-1½”)
3.  "One character reflecting on his life," implying an underlying story with multiple characters.  Has Neil done anything like this since Hemispheres?

This all seems to bode very well for CA. 1022.gif  

But it seems clear that CA may be a 2112-style story that centers around faith.  I guess those who are hung up on the religious angle need to decide if they're willing to give it a chance.  Or else stick with Jon Anderson or Neal Morse? confused13.gif  
  


#70 GeddysMullet

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:17 PM

All you who complain about the touring, note well that Neil credits playing all those shows with pushing him to a higher level in the studio.  So there! wink.gif

Also:  Now that I know how "Booujzhe" is pronounced, I know how to spell that noise my husband makes to suggest explosions!

#71 Jaminbenb

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:34 PM

I liked this line:

"Old cars, like old drummers, need careful warming up"

#72 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:41 PM

Yeah, Neil should just write about planes, trains, boats, spaceships, occasional natural phenomina, and of course motorcycle riding (unless he would rather sell us books about that subject instead)

done

#73 clem

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:44 PM

QUOTE (upstateNYfan @ Jan 12 2012, 03:31 PM)
QUOTE (Knice @ Jan 12 2012, 12:52 PM)
Its amazing to me.  For a guy who really did have some hard blows, and yet found and created/blessed with a new family, baby, great career; he is still angry.  News flash Neil; everyone has tough times.  I know your inner-baby soul you mentioned on the last DVD was hurt; and I respect that, but bad stuff happens to good people all the time. 
Its interesting that he states he is "quietly resisting" when really it appears almost an agenda in the last few years and now albums.

Im disappointed because I grew up listening to these guys, and the lyrics were always as important as the music;  so I get some people saying, "well, then don't listen; or turn it off" but I am so excited to hear this next album; and I honestly feel its just going to bash and belittle my feelings on God and spirituality.  Not whining here, just kind of takes a little something out of the experience of a new Rush album. 

I have always felt for 30 years now, how incredibly intelligent/articulate Neil is; and yet it completely blows my mind how uneducated he is on Christianity.  He must be talking about the cook -a-dook fanatics, but in my Christian church that I try to attend weekly, its all about giving to those who don't, trying to think outside of ourselves, bringing my kids on Thanksgiving day to homeless shelters, forgiving those who screw us over and all around just trying to help me be a good man/husband/dad.  How he compares that to the MIDDLE EAST and terrorism on S&A, just baffled me. "middle east and the middle west" Yes, there are crazys but for the most part, I think people who are Christian are really just trying to make the world a better place.  It seems as if he was brought to a room and somebody tried to literally shove a bible down his throat and beat him or something.
Neil, please, we get it.  We respect your beliefs and your freedom to express;  but please stop making many of us feel "a little crazy" for believing in something that you are kind of belittling.
I will be bummed if the next album is another extension of his unresolved issues with Christians.
RUSH RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He doesn't seem angry at all. However he does articulate some disapproval or lack of understanding towards Christians.

Please re-read how he praises the brilliant Christopher Hitchens, and the quote from him he admires.

All this Neil bashing is curious to say the least.

Is Hitchens the guy that compared teaching children to be religious the equivalent of child abuse?    If not, please forgive, I misheard.  If so, I'm sorry, the man was not, by any means, "brilliant".





#74 Tony R

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE (clem @ Jan 12 2012, 09:44 PM)
QUOTE (upstateNYfan @ Jan 12 2012, 03:31 PM)
QUOTE (Knice @ Jan 12 2012, 12:52 PM)
Its amazing to me.  For a guy who really did have some hard blows, and yet found and created/blessed with a new family, baby, great career; he is still angry.  News flash Neil; everyone has tough times.  I know your inner-baby soul you mentioned on the last DVD was hurt; and I respect that, but bad stuff happens to good people all the time. 
Its interesting that he states he is "quietly resisting" when really it appears almost an agenda in the last few years and now albums.

Im disappointed because I grew up listening to these guys, and the lyrics were always as important as the music;  so I get some people saying, "well, then don't listen; or turn it off" but I am so excited to hear this next album; and I honestly feel its just going to bash and belittle my feelings on God and spirituality.  Not whining here, just kind of takes a little something out of the experience of a new Rush album. 

I have always felt for 30 years now, how incredibly intelligent/articulate Neil is; and yet it completely blows my mind how uneducated he is on Christianity.  He must be talking about the cook -a-dook fanatics, but in my Christian church that I try to attend weekly, its all about giving to those who don't, trying to think outside of ourselves, bringing my kids on Thanksgiving day to homeless shelters, forgiving those who screw us over and all around just trying to help me be a good man/husband/dad.  How he compares that to the MIDDLE EAST and terrorism on S&A, just baffled me. "middle east and the middle west" Yes, there are crazys but for the most part, I think people who are Christian are really just trying to make the world a better place.  It seems as if he was brought to a room and somebody tried to literally shove a bible down his throat and beat him or something.
Neil, please, we get it.  We respect your beliefs and your freedom to express;  but please stop making many of us feel "a little crazy" for believing in something that you are kind of belittling.
I will be bummed if the next album is another extension of his unresolved issues with Christians.
RUSH RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He doesn't seem angry at all. However he does articulate some disapproval or lack of understanding towards Christians.

Please re-read how he praises the brilliant Christopher Hitchens, and the quote from him he admires.

All this Neil bashing is curious to say the least.

Is Hitchens the guy that compared teaching children to be religious the equivalent of child abuse?    If not, please forgive, I misheard.  If so, I'm sorry, the man was not, by any means, "brilliant".

This forum is not the place for this kind of debate.  

#75 ColdFireYYZ

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:02 PM

The lyrics don't really bother me if the music is good so I don't really care about what he wants to write about. However, it does seem like he goes out of his way to mention his beliefs and how wrong he thinks everyone else is. I love his drumming and he's one of the best musicians out there but honestly he doesn't seem like someone I'd want to be around.

Edited by ColdFireYYZ, 12 January 2012 - 05:03 PM.


#76 Sarge

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:03 PM

If my daughter then my wife died so closely together and so tragically i'd be tellin god to shove it too!!

And for everybody moaning, he doesn't have to write anything so if you don't like what he writes......don't read it......simple!!

#77 Tony R

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:04 PM

@ColdFireYYZ

I'm not sure when he said "everyone else is wrong". Can you remind me?

Edited by Tony R, 12 January 2012 - 05:05 PM.


#78 Running Rebel

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:05 PM

So many of these anti-Neil comments always leave me a little sad.  

I love reading Neil's blog.  Having been a lifelong fan and having Rush been such an important part of the "soundtrack of my life" it's always nice to get a little personal insight and as is natural, compare and contrast with my own.  It's also simply nice to hear that life is going well for him on a personal basis after so much tradgedy.  It's reflective to read his thoughts on people and events.  It's inspirational to read about the upcoming music.

For those that say that Neil should keep his athiesm to himself I would like you to think about that and ask yourself, "do you also complain that Christians should keep it to themselves?"   Do you feel that Falwell should just "get over it" and that Tebow should shut it down, and that all our politicians have no right to express their beliefs, you know because "it's getting old"?   Are you as openly critical of Christians expressing their beliefs as you are of athiests? Or do you just expect that your priveledge allows you that? Telling Neil to "keep it to himself" is akin to telling homosexuals to keep in the closet or black people to stay on their own side of the tracks or God forbid, write about racism!.  

For Neil to come out after keeping it private the last 40 years I find incredibly brave, especially having the knowledge that it could hurt not only financially, but understanding that normal recourse of Christians and their propensity for personal attacks against anyone not sharing their beliefs.

I won't post examples, but the bigotry of many post in this thread would be unbelievable if it wasn't so unfortunately, common.

Did it really bother you to find that Neil is enjoying Christmas even though he is an athiest?  (OMG, he has an angel!  He must believe!)  It always surprises me to see people try to rationalize his beliefs as if he is really a closet Christian, or at least an OMG please at least be an agnostic!.

I can only ask, what specifically did Neil say that you took issue with?  Was it his reflection on his friend's life, (and death)?

Some days were dark
Some nights were bright
I wish that I could live it all again


I'm probably more in agreement with Neil on this and not sure I would want to re-live life, but like him, I appreciate the sentiment.

I found his tribute to Hitch heartfelt and moving, as Hitchens has touched many, many lives with his words. But did you take issue with Neil reflecing on his age (60th birthday) and passing of a friend (Freddie) or someone like Hitch that was obviously a huge influence on Neil having the courage to "come out" as he was to many of us?

Did Neil's reflection on, using one’s time, and facing life’s blessings and tragedies with grace and gratitude bother you?  I guess I am asking what he said that you found offensive?  Was it Hitch's quote?

I thought the Hitch was quote summed it up nicely and was surprised excited to see the homage,

QUOTE
The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.



And I thoguht Neil's words on the matter were inspirational.

QUOTE
If the highest gift art can offer is inspiration, then encouragement is not far behind. Mr. Hitchens has made me braver—for good or ill—about speaking my own mind. No one expects to change anyone’s beliefs, though as Hitchens also said: “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”


So as we are facing our own "Gate of the Year",  I suppose we all could reflect on Neil's ending words,

I said to the man who stood at the Gate of the Year, ‘Give me a light that I may tread safely into the unknown.’”

Seems to me you have to bring that light yourself.

Edited by Running Rebel, 12 January 2012 - 05:07 PM.


#79 Tony R

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:06 PM

Oh dear, here we go...

#80 Running Rebel

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:09 PM

QUOTE (Tony R @ Jan 12 2012, 05:06 PM)
Oh dear, here we go...

haha




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