Narps Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Signals is consistently good. Subdivisions and The Analog Kid are awesome, and then there's a dip in quality the rest of the way. It's all still enjoyable, except for maybe Chemistry, but not as good as the first two songs. Clockwork Angels' first five tracks are epic, as are the last five. Gotta give it to CA here. Actually, CA beats every post-MP album in my book, so maybe I should just stop voting…Sounds good. i would stop if I were you... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) As I've said, I think there are places in CA where the production really does suit it. It only bothers me in certain places. And still, that doesn't take anything away from the quality of the album as a whole. There is the quality of the songs and the quality of the album production, and those are two completely different things. When I hear people talking crap about CA they always mention the poor production quality (which I don't hear, but that's my ears) and never the quality of the songs themselves, and I think that's what the NarpMan is talking about here: Signals as an album was groundbreaking back in 1982. If you were to listen to it for the first time today it would sound like it was recorded in 1982, thus dated. CA, on the other hand, has a timeless sound. Sure, it sounds like a new Rush album. But it could have also been recorded in 1979, as it would fit in with their sound of the time.Sorry to say it would sound miles better had it been and more would love it I have no doubt including me... So, to those people who have an issue with the production on CA (or Vapor Trails, for that matter) what you do think of the songs live? Are they everything you had wanted them to be on the album? If you don't like them live, then why not?I will honestly let you know when they put out an at least decent live recording again. It's saddens me and I mean this will all sincerity lest there be any question, they can't record their own music worth a crap anymore. The last good DVD was R30 in my view. I hear Snakes & Arrows was produced well but most of the songs stink so there is that. As far as CA goes if it were produced well even the 3 songs I don't like would sound better and the rest might move from good to excellent. Hard to say. Halo Effect and The Garden are excellent anyway... :) Edited June 8, 2015 by Narps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stone and a hard place Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Signals, but almost CA. lots of sentimental value in Signals pushed it ahead by a nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segue Myles Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Songs I love on Signals:The Weapon 8/10Losing It 9/10Countdown 9/10 Everything else is filler, the worst being Subdivisions (6/10), Chemistry (4/10) and Digital Man (5/10). I've never enjoyed these songs, or felt that Subdivisions is a Rush classic. Opinions, eh? As for CA, I actually like my least favourite songs more than Chemistry, and there are seven songs I rank as high as The Weapon: CaravanBU2BClockwork AngelsSeven Cities Of GoldThe WreckersHeadlong FlightThe Garden If I put to one side the production issues, these are all around the 7-8/10 range. As an album, the songs all bleed into one, and The Anarchist, Carnies, Halo Effect and the sadly unessential (but potentially great) BU2B2 do absolutely nothing for me. I don't rate CA as highly as others, but I will admit my bashing of it does have limits. Signals is honestly one of my least favourite Rush albums, and revisiting it confirmed my feelings that it just isn't for me, and considering I rate the next four albums all between 8 and 10/10, I truly feel letting go of Terry Brown was the right decision. Signals is a 6/10, and I personally feel that is being generous. As it is, CA is also a 6/10, but if it had superior production, and the tracklist was edited down, it could be an 8/10 at least, based on my favourite tracks alone. I know longer hold onto the belief that between CoS and Presto, every album was a classic. Sorry Signals lovers! And Mick you hate GUP so disagree with me to your hearts content haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 And Mick you hate GUP so disagree with me to your hearts content haha! Hahaha...I'll bet Mick just can't wait to vote in the next poll, coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 And Mick you hate GUP so disagree with me to your hearts content haha! Hahaha...I'll bet Mick just can't wait to vote in the next poll, coming up.Grace beats CA too. Only my opinion of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I love Countdown! My stinkers on Signals are Chemistry (sorry, toymaker) and Losing It (sorry, ummm...everybody). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I love Countdown! My stinkers on Signals are Chemistry (sorry, toymaker) and Losing It (sorry, ummm...everybody). I knew that was going to happen. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuesday's Gone Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Signals for me. I love Countdown! My stinkers on Signals are Chemistry (sorry, toymaker) and Losing It (sorry, ummm...everybody). I love Countdown too. Chemistry is definitely my least favorite from Signals, it's not great but it's not bad either imo. Losing It is my favorite after Subdivisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I love Countdown! My stinkers on Signals are Chemistry (sorry, toymaker) and Losing It (sorry, ummm...everybody). I knew that was going to happen. :( I'm keeping my tone gentle, and there's no real force behind the slap. Not everyone digs Chemistry, for whatever reason . . . there's no chemistry between the song and the listener sometimes. It just has the right combination of elements for me, I guess. Cool that you like Countdown, though. That song has a signature Lifeson riff (or it could be Lee - not sure who wrote that) towards the end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I love Countdown! My stinkers on Signals are Chemistry (sorry, toymaker) and Losing It (sorry, ummm...everybody). I knew that was going to happen. :( I'm keeping my tone gentle, and there's no real force behind the slap. Not everyone digs Chemistry, for whatever reason . . . there's no chemistry between the song and the listener sometimes. It just has the right combination of elements for me, I guess. Cool that you like Countdown, though. That song has a signature Lifeson riff (or it could be Lee - not sure who wrote that) towards the end. You have extolled Chemistry's virtues more than anyone else here, I think. I don't think it's offensively bad or anything. It's just kind of a dud; doesn't do a whole lot for me. Same with Losing It. Que sera sera... But yes, I love Countdown. Sounds as fresh to me now as it did in 1982. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x1yyz Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 As I've said, I think there are places in CA where the production really does suit it. It only bothers me in certain places. And still, that doesn't take anything away from the quality of the album as a whole. There is the quality of the songs and the quality of the album production, and those are two completely different things. When I hear people talking crap about CA they always mention the poor production quality (which I don't hear, but that's my ears) and never the quality of the songs themselves, and I think that's what the NarpMan is talking about here: Signals as an album was groundbreaking back in 1982. If you were to listen to it for the first time today it would sound like it was recorded in 1982, thus dated. CA, on the other hand, has a timeless sound. Sure, it sounds like a new Rush album. But it could have also been recorded in 1979, as it would fit in with their sound of the time.Sorry to say it would sound miles better had it been and more would love it I have no doubt including me... So, to those people who have an issue with the production on CA (or Vapor Trails, for that matter) what you do think of the songs live? Are they everything you had wanted them to be on the album? If you don't like them live, then why not?I will honestly let you know when they put out an at least decent live recording again. It's saddens me and I mean this will all sincerity lest there be any question, they can't record their own music worth a crap anymore. The last good DVD was R30 in my view. I hear Snakes & Arrows was produced well but most of the songs stink so there is that. As far as CA goes if it were produced well even the 3 songs I don't like would sound better and the rest might move from good to excellent. Hard to say. Halo Effect and The Garden are excellent anyway... :) How did you like hearing them performed live & in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 As I've said, I think there are places in CA where the production really does suit it. It only bothers me in certain places. And still, that doesn't take anything away from the quality of the album as a whole. There is the quality of the songs and the quality of the album production, and those are two completely different things. When I hear people talking crap about CA they always mention the poor production quality (which I don't hear, but that's my ears) and never the quality of the songs themselves, and I think that's what the NarpMan is talking about here: Signals as an album was groundbreaking back in 1982. If you were to listen to it for the first time today it would sound like it was recorded in 1982, thus dated. CA, on the other hand, has a timeless sound. Sure, it sounds like a new Rush album. But it could have also been recorded in 1979, as it would fit in with their sound of the time.Sorry to say it would sound miles better had it been and more would love it I have no doubt including me... So, to those people who have an issue with the production on CA (or Vapor Trails, for that matter) what you do think of the songs live? Are they everything you had wanted them to be on the album? If you don't like them live, then why not?I will honestly let you know when they put out an at least decent live recording again. It's saddens me and I mean this will all sincerity lest there be any question, they can't record their own music worth a crap anymore. The last good DVD was R30 in my view. I hear Snakes & Arrows was produced well but most of the songs stink so there is that. As far as CA goes if it were produced well even the 3 songs I don't like would sound better and the rest might move from good to excellent. Hard to say. Halo Effect and The Garden are excellent anyway... :) How did you like hearing them performed live & in person?It sounded fine but as I have posted a few times it seemed Ged struggled with the vocals more on the newer stuff and especially VT (wow) than the older stuff. Once we got past VT he seemed much better. Doesn't make sense but that is what I heard anyway. Not sure if he gets some kind of help magically on the older stuff or not. Don't know much about that kind of stuff but maybe they have a recording or something he sings along with on the older tunes? Don't know how that works or if it's even possible and if so they did that. The sound and the music was very good all night throughout the show. Great outdoor venue in my view... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbine Freight Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The last of the great Rush albums - Signals. Once again our Lorraine has cut straight to the heart of the matter & absolutely nailed it. Good job she's around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The last of the great Rush albums - Signals. Once again our Lorraine has cut straight to the heart of the matter & absolutely nailed it. Good job she's around.Agreed. I like some of the albums that followed directly (80's) but none of them would I consider "great" by any means. There are also some good songs along the way scattered here and there but no "classics" or "epics" or choose your own descriptive. Just my opinion of course. That show on VHI that featured Rush "classic" albums 2112 and Moving Pictures I don't think there will be another episode made about anything else they have done post 81'... :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddy Jazz Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Signals for me....CA I like but I had to cast a vote....sorry CA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital Dad Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The last of the great Rush albums - Signals. Once again our Lorraine has cut straight to the heart of the matter & absolutely nailed it. Good job she's around.Agreed. I like some of the albums that followed directly (80's) but none of them would I consider "great" by any means. There are also some good songs along the way scattered here and there but no "classics" or "epics" or choose your own descriptive. Just my opinion of course. That show on VHI that featured Rush "classic" albums 2112 and Moving Pictures I don't think there will be another episode made about anything else they have done post 81'... :) Power Windows and Snakes and Arrows are great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedRush Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The last of the great Rush albums - Signals. Once again our Lorraine has cut straight to the heart of the matter & absolutely nailed it. Good job she's around.Agreed. I like some of the albums that followed directly (80's) but none of them would I consider "great" by any means. There are also some good songs along the way scattered here and there but no "classics" or "epics" or choose your own descriptive. Just my opinion of course. That show on VHI that featured Rush "classic" albums 2112 and Moving Pictures I don't think there will be another episode made about anything else they have done post 81'... :) Power Windows and Snakes and Arrows are great. Like a crime can be great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The last of the great Rush albums - Signals. Once again our Lorraine has cut straight to the heart of the matter & absolutely nailed it. Good job she's around.Agreed. I like some of the albums that followed directly (80's) but none of them would I consider "great" by any means. There are also some good songs along the way scattered here and there but no "classics" or "epics" or choose your own descriptive. Just my opinion of course. That show on VHI that featured Rush "classic" albums 2112 and Moving Pictures I don't think there will be another episode made about anything else they have done post 81'... :) Power Windows and Snakes and Arrows are great. Grace Under Pressure, Hold Your Fire, and Presto are all great. An album can have a stinker or two, and still be a great album. Just like Signals. I love it, but I don't love it as much as Clockwork Angels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) The last of the great Rush albums - Signals. Once again our Lorraine has cut straight to the heart of the matter & absolutely nailed it. Good job she's around.Agreed. I like some of the albums that followed directly (80's) but none of them would I consider "great" by any means. There are also some good songs along the way scattered here and there but no "classics" or "epics" or choose your own descriptive. Just my opinion of course. That show on VHI that featured Rush "classic" albums 2112 and Moving Pictures I don't think there will be another episode made about anything else they have done post 81'... :) Power Windows and Snakes and Arrows are great. An album can have a stinker or two, and still be a great album. I don't think I agree with this especially in bold. I honestly think there isn't a "great" one after Signals. Grace would come closest in my view and if HYF quit at 8 songs it would make the strongest case of all in my opinion. The VT, Snakes and CA era there are just so many songs a bunch of stinkers are more possible obviously and they are certainly there... :codger: Edited June 9, 2015 by Narps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughedatbytime Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The last of the great Rush albums - Signals. Once again our Lorraine has cut straight to the heart of the matter & absolutely nailed it. Good job she's around.Agreed. I like some of the albums that followed directly (80's) but none of them would I consider "great" by any means. There are also some good songs along the way scattered here and there but no "classics" or "epics" or choose your own descriptive. Just my opinion of course. That show on VHI that featured Rush "classic" albums 2112 and Moving Pictures I don't think there will be another episode made about anything else they have done post 81'... :) Power Windows and Snakes and Arrows are great. Like a crime can be great?Like a tragedy can be great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The last of the great Rush albums - Signals. Once again our Lorraine has cut straight to the heart of the matter & absolutely nailed it. Good job she's around.Agreed. I like some of the albums that followed directly (80's) but none of them would I consider "great" by any means. There are also some good songs along the way scattered here and there but no "classics" or "epics" or choose your own descriptive. Just my opinion of course. That show on VHI that featured Rush "classic" albums 2112 and Moving Pictures I don't think there will be another episode made about anything else they have done post 81'... :) Power Windows and Snakes and Arrows are great. An album can have a stinker or two, and still be a great album. I don't think I agree with this especially in bold. I honestly think there isn't a "great" one after Signals. Grace would come closest in my view and if HYF quit at 8 songs it would make the strongest case of all in my opinion. The VT, Snakes and CA era there are just so many songs a bunch of stinkers are more possible obviously and they are certainly there... :codger: I certainly understand your point. However...another case in point- even though I like Snakes and Arrows more than a fair number of other people do, I could have gone without two songs from it in the show last night; I would have been happy with one. And One Little Victory, from Vapor Trails, I could have done with something else instead of that. So there...two songs that I could have done without. But it was still a GREAT show. Savvy? :) :madra: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narps Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The last of the great Rush albums - Signals. Once again our Lorraine has cut straight to the heart of the matter & absolutely nailed it. Good job she's around.Agreed. I like some of the albums that followed directly (80's) but none of them would I consider "great" by any means. There are also some good songs along the way scattered here and there but no "classics" or "epics" or choose your own descriptive. Just my opinion of course. That show on VHI that featured Rush "classic" albums 2112 and Moving Pictures I don't think there will be another episode made about anything else they have done post 81'... :) Power Windows and Snakes and Arrows are great. An album can have a stinker or two, and still be a great album. I don't think I agree with this especially in bold. I honestly think there isn't a "great" one after Signals. Grace would come closest in my view and if HYF quit at 8 songs it would make the strongest case of all in my opinion. The VT, Snakes and CA era there are just so many songs a bunch of stinkers are more possible obviously and they are certainly there... :codger: I certainly understand your point. However...another case in point- even though I like Snakes and Arrows more than a fair number of other people do, I could have gone without two songs from it in the show last night; I would have been happy with one. And One Little Victory, from Vapor Trails, I could have done with something else instead of that. So there...two songs that I could have done without. But it was still a GREAT show. Savvy? :) :madra:Savvy... :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GabesCavesOfIce Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 As I've said, I think there are places in CA where the production really does suit it. It only bothers me in certain places. And still, that doesn't take anything away from the quality of the album as a whole. There is the quality of the songs and the quality of the album production, and those are two completely different things. When I hear people talking crap about CA they always mention the poor production quality (which I don't hear, but that's my ears) and never the quality of the songs themselves, and I think that's what the NarpMan is talking about here: Signals as an album was groundbreaking back in 1982. If you were to listen to it for the first time today it would sound like it was recorded in 1982, thus dated. CA, on the other hand, has a timeless sound. Sure, it sounds like a new Rush album. But it could have also been recorded in 1979, as it would fit in with their sound of the time.Sorry to say it would sound miles better had it been and more would love it I have no doubt including me... So, to those people who have an issue with the production on CA (or Vapor Trails, for that matter) what you do think of the songs live? Are they everything you had wanted them to be on the album? If you don't like them live, then why not? Regarding quality of songs vs production being mutually exclusive, I would disagree. To the extent CAs poor production muddles what Lee and Lifeson are playing, its impossible to fully take in the songs. They are good but to compete against the prime of Rush is stiff competition. Re CA live, I'd have to skate on the spoiler rule? The dosage on 2015 is perfect, but the nine tune marathon 2012-13 was way too much and had me reachin for the Advil. As far as CA being timeless, I like the album, but to compare it to 1976-1982 Rush is unfair, Lifesons solos, Lees singing, post 1995, it is by far no comparison to them in their prime. Neil, he s always great. Also during their prime, there was a crispness, not only to Broons recording, but how they can be off on their own instrumental journeys, then they come together powerfully in unison. LVS, Cyg, Xan, CE, NS, RB...and Signals...TW, LI, DM, AK...not fair to compare that list to CA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segue Myles Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 The production on VT suits the abrasive energy of the songs. The anger, hurt and pain combined with the intense performances sound great. Live, VT sounds good but to my ears the songs work best as the haphazard studio versions. Accidental the damage might have been, but it works for me. The terrible production on CA ruins a lot of the albums great qualities. It doesn't suit the songs at all. If they wanted the album to sound like that, they were wrong. Live...well...sadly I have yet to be impressed by any of the CA songs. But sadly, I say this as someone who hasn't been there in person to see them live. I get none of the energy from a live album, so I miss out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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