Shorter more focused albums

[coventry]

Because of vinyl time limitations (and other factors, but time was a large factor), The Beatles dropped "Strawberry Fields" and "Penny Lane" from Sgt. Peppers...

[Lerxster]

Because of vinyl time limitations (and other factors, but time was a large factor), The Beatles dropped "Strawberry Fields" and "Penny Lane" from Sgt. Peppers...

Because I''m a Beatles blowhard, that's not quite it. There was pressure to release a single and since SFF/PL were the first two songs written and recorded after Revolver, they were issued as a double A side single. Since The Beatles didn't put songs on albums that were previously released, they were not included on Sgt. Peppers. That was a decision George Martin later regretted.

[An Enemy Without]

You Bet Your Life is objectively bad.

[ReRushed]

Because of vinyl time limitations (and other factors, but time was a large factor), The Beatles dropped "Strawberry Fields" and "Penny Lane" from Sgt. Peppers...

Because I''m a Beatles blowhard, that's not quite it. There was pressure to release a single and since SFF/PL were the first two songs written and recorded after Revolver, they were issued as a double A side single. Since The Beatles didn't put songs on albums that were previously released, they were not included on Sgt. Peppers. That was a decision George Martin later regretted.

 

I read somewhere that The Beatles initially considered the concept for Sgt. Peppers to be songs about childhood and growing up. "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Penny Lane" fit that discription. I agree, it was a dreadful mistake to leave those two songs off of what became Sgt. Pepper.

[LedRush]

 

And I could easily live without all those songs, except I like Speed of Love.

 

[rushgoober]

And I could easily live without all those songs, except I like Speed of Love.

 

 

Can I assume the facepalm is because you realize what a good song that is and you regret your original condmenation of it?

[MMCXII]

Do you think RUSH would have benefited from having shorter album after CD were introduce during the Hold Your Fire album and beyond. Many band once cds were introduced went "Time Happy" or more correctly - Time Crazy with their albums, contributing way to many songs that were mediocre or even substandard just to fill in the time. Album prior to Presto where much more focused and shorter due to the time limitation with vinyl. I believe RUSH fell into this trap as well. Imagine the following albums at shorter length.

 

Hold Your Fire without (Tai Shan or High Water)

Presto without (Red Tide, Anagram for Mongo and Hand over Fist)

Roll the Bones without (You Bet your Life)

Counterparts without ( Speed of Love and Everyday Glory)

Test for Echo without (Dog Years, Virtuality or Carve away the Stone)

Vapor Trails without (Nocturne or Out of the Cradle)

Snakes And Arrows without (Good News First or We Hold On)

 

Now I'm not say these songs are bad, I'm just saying their particular albums would have benefitted without their inclusion. Rush could have kept them on ice as bonus tracks for box sets like Sectors or something.

 

What do you think?

 

here's the problem, this is YOUR list of songs.. everyone would have a different list.. I can't imagine S&A without 'We Hold on'.. there's other songs on your list I couldn't live without either including 'let's all jump on the bandwagon' er I mean 'Dog Years'.. hell RUSH themselves don't even know which songs their fans will like before an album comes out, how could they anyway when every Rush fan likes something different!

[rushgoober]

Do you think RUSH would have benefited from having shorter album after CD were introduce during the Hold Your Fire album and beyond. Many band once cds were introduced went "Time Happy" or more correctly - Time Crazy with their albums, contributing way to many songs that were mediocre or even substandard just to fill in the time. Album prior to Presto where much more focused and shorter due to the time limitation with vinyl. I believe RUSH fell into this trap as well. Imagine the following albums at shorter length.

 

Hold Your Fire without (Tai Shan or High Water)

Presto without (Red Tide, Anagram for Mongo and Hand over Fist)

Roll the Bones without (You Bet your Life)

Counterparts without ( Speed of Love and Everyday Glory)

Test for Echo without (Dog Years, Virtuality or Carve away the Stone)

Vapor Trails without (Nocturne or Out of the Cradle)

Snakes And Arrows without (Good News First or We Hold On)

 

Now I'm not say these songs are bad, I'm just saying their particular albums would have benefitted without their inclusion. Rush could have kept them on ice as bonus tracks for box sets like Sectors or something.

 

What do you think?

 

here's the problem, this is YOUR list of songs.. everyone would have a different list.. I can't imagine S&A without 'We Hold on'.. there's other songs on your list I couldn't live without either including 'let's all jump on the bandwagon' er I mean 'Dog Years'.. hell RUSH themselves don't even know which songs their fans will like before an album comes out, how could they anyway when every Rush fan likes something different!

 

The funny thing is... I just put on Hemispheres, started listening and then really wondered why posts like this with songs like these are argued about. I mean, every song listed above (including a couple that I like ok) are SO far out of the league of something like Hemispheres or really almost anything they put out from 1976-1984 that I don't know why we even bother piddling around discussing it. I mean, argue all you want for your Red Tide or Virtuality or We Hold On or whatever... but it's obvious to most of us that those songs are a very far distance from the best Rush. Just sayin'.

[Rod in Toronto]

"Just sayin'"? :facepalm: :facepalm:

 

Just kidding... :7up: :cheers: :7up:

[rushgoober]

"Just sayin'"? :facepalm: :facepalm:

 

Just kidding... :7up: :cheers: :7up:

 

:o

 

Why, I oughta.... :tsk:

 

 

 

:P

[treeduck]

Rush produce longer albums these days because they have 5 year gaps between albums instead of the 12-18 months in the 80's...

[tas7]

The songs on Roll the Bones and Presto are frustrating because they all have awesome bits ruined by bad bits. Take Bet Your Life, it has an awesome verse ruined by that 'Odds get Even' bit, chorus is OK. I love the middle 'eight' of Neurotica but the chorus is awful. A few of the Presto songs have good choruses but bad AOR verses, for example Available Light.

[MMCXII]

Do you think RUSH would have benefited from having shorter album after CD were introduce during the Hold Your Fire album and beyond. Many band once cds were introduced went "Time Happy" or more correctly - Time Crazy with their albums, contributing way to many songs that were mediocre or even substandard just to fill in the time. Album prior to Presto where much more focused and shorter due to the time limitation with vinyl. I believe RUSH fell into this trap as well. Imagine the following albums at shorter length.

 

Hold Your Fire without (Tai Shan or High Water)

Presto without (Red Tide, Anagram for Mongo and Hand over Fist)

Roll the Bones without (You Bet your Life)

Counterparts without ( Speed of Love and Everyday Glory)

Test for Echo without (Dog Years, Virtuality or Carve away the Stone)

Vapor Trails without (Nocturne or Out of the Cradle)

Snakes And Arrows without (Good News First or We Hold On)

 

Now I'm not say these songs are bad, I'm just saying their particular albums would have benefitted without their inclusion. Rush could have kept them on ice as bonus tracks for box sets like Sectors or something.

 

What do you think?

 

here's the problem, this is YOUR list of songs.. everyone would have a different list.. I can't imagine S&A without 'We Hold on'.. there's other songs on your list I couldn't live without either including 'let's all jump on the bandwagon' er I mean 'Dog Years'.. hell RUSH themselves don't even know which songs their fans will like before an album comes out, how could they anyway when every Rush fan likes something different!

 

The funny thing is... I just put on Hemispheres, started listening and then really wondered why posts like this with songs like these are argued about. I mean, every song listed above (including a couple that I like ok) are SO far out of the league of something like Hemispheres or really almost anything they put out from 1976-1984 that I don't know why we even bother piddling around discussing it. I mean, argue all you want for your Red Tide or Virtuality or We Hold On or whatever... but it's obvious to most of us that those songs are a very far distance from the best Rush. Just sayin'.

 

Speaking of Hemispheres and those 4 AMAZING songs.. I wonder what else could have been put on that album if CD format was around back then.. just sayin ;)

Edited July 31, 2013 by MMCXII

[ReRushed]

Rush produce longer albums these days because they have 5 year gaps between albums instead of the 12-18 months in the 80's...

 

Yes. But they probably take much longer breaks between writing to be with their families and pursue other interests.

[losingit2k]

Do you think RUSH would have benefited from having shorter album after CD were introduce during the Hold Your Fire album and beyond. Many band once cds were introduced went "Time Happy" or more correctly - Time Crazy with their albums, contributing way to many songs that were mediocre or even substandard just to fill in the time. Album prior to Presto where much more focused and shorter due to the time limitation with vinyl. I believe RUSH fell into this trap as well. Imagine the following albums at shorter length.

 

Hold Your Fire without (Tai Shan or High Water)

Presto without (Red Tide, Anagram for Mongo and Hand over Fist)

Roll the Bones without (You Bet your Life)

Counterparts without ( Speed of Love and Everyday Glory)

Test for Echo without (Dog Years, Virtuality or Carve away the Stone)

Vapor Trails without (Nocturne or Out of the Cradle)

Snakes And Arrows without (Good News First or We Hold On)

 

Now I'm not say these songs are bad, I'm just saying their particular albums would have benefitted without their inclusion. Rush could have kept them on ice as bonus tracks for box sets like Sectors or something.

 

What do you think?

 

here's the problem, this is YOUR list of songs.. everyone would have a different list.. I can't imagine S&A without 'We Hold on'.. there's other songs on your list I couldn't live without either including 'let's all jump on the bandwagon' er I mean 'Dog Years'.. hell RUSH themselves don't even know which songs their fans will like before an album comes out, how could they anyway when every Rush fan likes something different!

 

The funny thing is... I just put on Hemispheres, started listening and then really wondered why posts like this with songs like these are argued about. I mean, every song listed above (including a couple that I like ok) are SO far out of the league of something like Hemispheres or really almost anything they put out from 1976-1984 that I don't know why we even bother piddling around discussing it. I mean, argue all you want for your Red Tide or Virtuality or We Hold On or whatever... but it's obvious to most of us that those songs are a very far distance from the best Rush. Just sayin'.

Amen Brother!

[losingit2k]

Do you think RUSH would have benefited from having shorter album after CD were introduce during the Hold Your Fire album and beyond. Many band once cds were introduced went "Time Happy" or more correctly - Time Crazy with their albums, contributing way to many songs that were mediocre or even substandard just to fill in the time. Album prior to Presto where much more focused and shorter due to the time limitation with vinyl. I believe RUSH fell into this trap as well. Imagine the following albums at shorter length.

 

Hold Your Fire without (Tai Shan or High Water)

Presto without (Red Tide, Anagram for Mongo and Hand over Fist)

Roll the Bones without (You Bet your Life)

Counterparts without ( Speed of Love and Everyday Glory)

Test for Echo without (Dog Years, Virtuality or Carve away the Stone)

Vapor Trails without (Nocturne or Out of the Cradle)

Snakes And Arrows without (Good News First or We Hold On)

 

Now I'm not say these songs are bad, I'm just saying their particular albums would have benefitted without their inclusion. Rush could have kept them on ice as bonus tracks for box sets like Sectors or something.

 

What do you think?

 

here's the problem, this is YOUR list of songs.. everyone would have a different list.. I can't imagine S&A without 'We Hold on'.. there's other songs on your list I couldn't live without either including 'let's all jump on the bandwagon' er I mean 'Dog Years'.. hell RUSH themselves don't even know which songs their fans will like before an album comes out, how could they anyway when every Rush fan likes something different!

 

The funny thing is... I just put on Hemispheres, started listening and then really wondered why posts like this with songs like these are argued about. I mean, every song listed above (including a couple that I like ok) are SO far out of the league of something like Hemispheres or really almost anything they put out from 1976-1984 that I don't know why we even bother piddling around discussing it. I mean, argue all you want for your Red Tide or Virtuality or We Hold On or whatever... but it's obvious to most of us that those songs are a very far distance from the best Rush. Just sayin'.

 

Speaking of Hemispheres and those 4 AMAZING songs.. I wonder what else could have been put on that album if CD format was around back then.. just sayin ;)

Probably nothing. They had a hard enough time recording those four songs. So hard a time that they ran straight away from it in Permanent Waves.

[losingit2k]

Imagine the following albums at shorter length.

 

Hold Your Fire without (Tai Shan or High Water)

Presto without (Red Tide, Anagram for Mongo and Hand over Fist)

Roll the Bones without (You Bet your Life)

Counterparts without ( Speed of Love and Everyday Glory)

Test for Echo without (Dog Years, Virtuality or Carve away the Stone)

Vapor Trails without (Nocturne or Out of the Cradle)

Snakes And Arrows without (Good News First or We Hold On)

 

Now I'm not say these songs are bad, I'm just saying their particular albums would have benefitted without their inclusion. Rush could have kept them on ice as bonus tracks for box sets like Sectors or something.

 

What do you think?

 

In making this suggestion, You Bet Your Life that if we ever meet in person I'll have forgotten this topic :madra: :bang bang:

 

"Just another day.. in the path of a speeding train" :hockeygoon:

 

:P .... maybe

What?

[coventry]

Do you think RUSH would have benefited from having shorter album after CD were introduce during the Hold Your Fire album and beyond. Many band once cds were introduced went "Time Happy" or more correctly - Time Crazy with their albums, contributing way to many songs that were mediocre or even substandard just to fill in the time. Album prior to Presto where much more focused and shorter due to the time limitation with vinyl. I believe RUSH fell into this trap as well. Imagine the following albums at shorter length.

 

Hold Your Fire without (Tai Shan or High Water)

Presto without (Red Tide, Anagram for Mongo and Hand over Fist)

Roll the Bones without (You Bet your Life)

Counterparts without ( Speed of Love and Everyday Glory)

Test for Echo without (Dog Years, Virtuality or Carve away the Stone)

Vapor Trails without (Nocturne or Out of the Cradle)

Snakes And Arrows without (Good News First or We Hold On)

 

Now I'm not say these songs are bad, I'm just saying their particular albums would have benefitted without their inclusion. Rush could have kept them on ice as bonus tracks for box sets like Sectors or something.

 

What do you think?

 

here's the problem, this is YOUR list of songs.. everyone would have a different list.. I can't imagine S&A without 'We Hold on'.. there's other songs on your list I couldn't live without either including 'let's all jump on the bandwagon' er I mean 'Dog Years'.. hell RUSH themselves don't even know which songs their fans will like before an album comes out, how could they anyway when every Rush fan likes something different!

 

The funny thing is... I just put on Hemispheres, started listening and then really wondered why posts like this with songs like these are argued about. I mean, every song listed above (including a couple that I like ok) are SO far out of the league of something like Hemispheres or really almost anything they put out from 1976-1984 that I don't know why we even bother piddling around discussing it. I mean, argue all you want for your Red Tide or Virtuality or We Hold On or whatever... but it's obvious to most of us that those songs are a very far distance from the best Rush. Just sayin'.

 

Sigh. How true. How could the last 29 years even hold a candle to the bonfire of the 8 years you mentioned? I mean, why did Rush even bother?

 

Note sarcasm.

[losingit2k]

Do you think RUSH would have benefited from having shorter album after CD were introduce during the Hold Your Fire album and beyond. Many band once cds were introduced went "Time Happy" or more correctly - Time Crazy with their albums, contributing way to many songs that were mediocre or even substandard just to fill in the time. Album prior to Presto where much more focused and shorter due to the time limitation with vinyl. I believe RUSH fell into this trap as well. Imagine the following albums at shorter length.

 

Hold Your Fire without (Tai Shan or High Water)

Presto without (Red Tide, Anagram for Mongo and Hand over Fist)

Roll the Bones without (You Bet your Life)

Counterparts without ( Speed of Love and Everyday Glory)

Test for Echo without (Dog Years, Virtuality or Carve away the Stone)

Vapor Trails without (Nocturne or Out of the Cradle)

Snakes And Arrows without (Good News First or We Hold On)

 

Now I'm not say these songs are bad, I'm just saying their particular albums would have benefitted without their inclusion. Rush could have kept them on ice as bonus tracks for box sets like Sectors or something.

 

What do you think?

 

here's the problem, this is YOUR list of songs.. everyone would have a different list.. I can't imagine S&A without 'We Hold on'.. there's other songs on your list I couldn't live without either including 'let's all jump on the bandwagon' er I mean 'Dog Years'.. hell RUSH themselves don't even know which songs their fans will like before an album comes out, how could they anyway when every Rush fan likes something different!

 

The funny thing is... I just put on Hemispheres, started listening and then really wondered why posts like this with songs like these are argued about. I mean, every song listed above (including a couple that I like ok) are SO far out of the league of something like Hemispheres or really almost anything they put out from 1976-1984 that I don't know why we even bother piddling around discussing it. I mean, argue all you want for your Red Tide or Virtuality or We Hold On or whatever... but it's obvious to most of us that those songs are a very far distance from the best Rush. Just sayin'.

 

Sigh. How true. How could the last 29 years even hold a candle to the bonfire of the 8 years you mentioned? I mean, why did Rush even bother?

 

Note sarcasm.

 

Why did they Bother? At least six good songs per album that why? Remember, the Epics era albums only had between 4 and 8 songs per album. They focused and the developed those songs much more as well. That's my point entirely. If they had paid the same attention to the latter albums, (Post Hold Your Fire) they would have achieved or come close to that goal too. There weakest albums Presto, Roll the Bones, Test For Echo. and Vapor Trails each had at least 6 good songs on them. This would not seem as week if the album only had 6 songs or 8 songs total like PeW or MP. They would also have focused and developed the remaining two songs much more as well instead of just creating whole new songs for their ideas. Its no surprised that once they returned to a shorter format (Clockwork Angels) that they hit it out of the park again.

 

:codger:

Edited August 1, 2013 by losingit2k

[JohnnyBlaze]

Do you think RUSH would have benefited from having shorter album after CD were introduce during the Hold Your Fire album and beyond. Many band once cds were introduced went "Time Happy" or more correctly - Time Crazy with their albums, contributing way to many songs that were mediocre or even substandard just to fill in the time. Album prior to Presto where much more focused and shorter due to the time limitation with vinyl. I believe RUSH fell into this trap as well. Imagine the following albums at shorter length.

 

Hold Your Fire without (Tai Shan or High Water)

Presto without (Red Tide, Anagram for Mongo and Hand over Fist)

Roll the Bones without (You Bet your Life)

Counterparts without ( Speed of Love and Everyday Glory)

Test for Echo without (Dog Years, Virtuality or Carve away the Stone)

Vapor Trails without (Nocturne or Out of the Cradle)

Snakes And Arrows without (Good News First or We Hold On)

 

Now I'm not say these songs are bad, I'm just saying their particular albums would have benefitted without their inclusion. Rush could have kept them on ice as bonus tracks for box sets like Sectors or something.

 

What do you think?

 

here's the problem, this is YOUR list of songs.. everyone would have a different list.. I can't imagine S&A without 'We Hold on'.. there's other songs on your list I couldn't live without either including 'let's all jump on the bandwagon' er I mean 'Dog Years'.. hell RUSH themselves don't even know which songs their fans will like before an album comes out, how could they anyway when every Rush fan likes something different!

 

The funny thing is... I just put on Hemispheres, started listening and then really wondered why posts like this with songs like these are argued about. I mean, every song listed above (including a couple that I like ok) are SO far out of the league of something like Hemispheres or really almost anything they put out from 1976-1984 that I don't know why we even bother piddling around discussing it. I mean, argue all you want for your Red Tide or Virtuality or We Hold On or whatever... but it's obvious to most of us that those songs are a very far distance from the best Rush. Just sayin'.

 

Sigh. How true. How could the last 29 years even hold a candle to the bonfire of the 8 years you mentioned? I mean, why did Rush even bother?

 

Note sarcasm.

 

Why did they Bother? At least six good songs per album that why? Remember, the Epics era albums only had between 4 and 8 songs per album. They focused and the developed those songs much more as well. That's my point entirely. If they had paid the same attention to the latter albums, (Post Hold Your Fire) they would have achieved or come close to that goal too. There weakest albums Presto, Roll the Bones, Test For Echo. and Vapor Trails each had at least 6 good songs on them. This would not seem as week if the album only had 6 songs or 8 songs total like PeW or MP. They would also have focused and developed the remaining two songs much more as well instead of just creating whole new songs for their ideas. Its no surprised that once they returned to a shorter format (Clockwork Angels) that they hit it out of the park again.

 

:codger:

Well....

1) coventry was being sarcastic.

2) MP's 7 songs destroy the best 7 songs off any album from Presto-CA. Same thing goes for Hemspheres or PeW vs. any of the albums from the last 25 years

3) I don' t even agree that there are at least 6 good songs on some of those albums

4) I don't agree that they focused more and developed those epic era songs. They had less time so they tinkered with things LESS. They tinkered on things MUCH more later in their careers. Snakes and Arrows, imho, sounds like they had TOO MUCH time to mess with songs (not including Hope and Malnar)

[toscanobarga]

This is a pet peeve of mine with almost every new album. There's nothing wrong with a 40-minute album, most of my all time favorite albums are around that mark.

 

Because a CD CAN hold 80 minutes doesn't mean you HAVE to fill it up.

 

As a few people mentioned, the tracks we'd like to ditch will vary greatly from person to person, but in general I'd like to see all new releases form every band I like being put out with a single-vinyl-album running time mentality.

 

I'm digging the Winery Dogs album and the last Deep Purple greatly, but in each case trimmming 2-3 songs would elevate my overall opinion of the album.

[JohnnyBlaze]

Honestly, if I trimmed RTB (their worst album imho) there'd probably be only 3 tracks and 2 bonus tracks because those 2 are tolerable though nothing special. But if I did that I'd simply have a good EP with no theme of chance/randomness tying it all together which was RTB's intent. THIS is my main problem with trimming these albums. Accept (or not) the albums as they are Edited August 1, 2013 by JohnnyBlaze

[Rod in Toronto]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/d1ca7ae243974a7ccc0483d9364da353/tumblr_mpmy9u69gF1r41unfo1_500.gif

[EagleMoon]

I think they need to put out an album with one long song for the entire thing.

 

Never happen, but wouldn't that be awesome? :D

[tx_rush]

I agree, some later albums are far too long. Obviously some of the songs others have recommended cutting others cant possibly fathom cutting (for me, we hold on and good news first are great)

 

The one consensus seems to be that just about everyone would be okay hacking off Tai Shan and High water from HYF.