Vapor Trails

[TheAccountant]

Why is Vapor Trails considered a weaker album, production values aside? I believe that VT is just as strong as Clockwork Angels—and Geddy's vocals are outstanding in every track. Ghost Rider, Vapor Trails, Sweet Miracle, How it is, Ceiling Unlimited, Freeze—seriously this album is awesome! Why the hate?

 

First of all, I would not say "weaker album". Worst Rush album (by far) is a better way to put it. I would not even say that it is a bad Rush album. Its just plain a very bad album.

 

Now I won't go as far as Goober goes in his dislike of it. The song Ghost Rider is not totally horrible. It has some wonderful lyrics, great feeling to the singing & nice drum work. Even some nice pauses so that you can catch your breath. But the guitar sound is way to thick. It is the best song on the album.

 

Vapor Trails (the song)? The line "In a vapor trail" is well sung. The song has some nice drum work in it. But it has ton's and tons of horrible guitar work and for the most part Geddy's vocals are just awful as he try's to fight his way through the thick wall of horrible noise that infests the song.

 

Sweet Miracle? Some well written lyrics but they are totally ruined by bad music, more bad music and still more bad music. For the most part what could have been good lyrics were ruined by the style Geddy had to sing them in in order to push them through the fog of noise that infests the song.

 

How it is? Little bits and pieces of good singing and lyrics that are totally swept away by a garage band sound (and I don't like the sound - at all).

 

Ceiling Unlimited? Again, I will try to say something decent about the song. The drum work is good. But I don't find the lyrics to be all that special. As the song goes on it just becomes just a wall of noise with occasional cracks that some music comes through. Very bad.

 

Freeze? Are you kidding? This is the worst song on an awful album. Pure noise right from the start. Hideous. They call this music? Its pure sonic assault and battery. Nothing redeeming about the song. Garbage. I get a headache listening to it.

 

Basically the album sounds like about 5 guitars were playing all at once, not always in coordination, the lyrics are not aways well sung (in part because Geddy is trying to force them past the noise coming from the guitars), it sound like a garage band that is putting forth a wall of noise and some of the lyrics have some potential, some don't. But it always comes back to the way the music was written. Just bad, bad, bad.

 

I listened to it a lot when it came out and tried to like it - no luck. Stopped listening to it and went back much latter and discovered it was even worse then I had remembered it being. Just horrible.

 

By the way - S & A is very, very good. CA I have not completely made my mind up about yet. Like it but just have not finished digesting it (even after it being out a year).

 

Saw Rush on VT tour - loved the show. My favorite show of all time (and I have seen a lot of shows). But I liked it for all of the non - VT work. Or perhaps in spite of the VT work.

 

If you like it - good for you. Thats fine with me. But definitely not for me.

 

Hope that answers your question.

[circumstantial tree]

As with most songs that I like, there's a mental image I get when I hear a song or parts of a song. During the last section of the song, what I see in my mind is Neil on his motorcycle going down a road in the woods up high in the mountains somewhere. And when I see him riding, he's riding away from my viewpoint. The song is meant to be about moving forward despite all the tragedies (in my opinion) and seeing him on his bike riding away means that is what he is doing.

[Retrospective]

Why is Vapor Trails considered a weaker album, production values aside? I believe that VT is just as strong as Clockwork Angels—and Geddy's vocals are outstanding in every track. Ghost Rider, Vapor Trails, Sweet Miracle, How it is, Ceiling Unlimited, Freeze—seriously this album is awesome! Why the hate?

 

First of all, I would not say "weaker album". Worst Rush album (by far) is a better way to put it. I would not even say that it is a bad Rush album. Its just plain a very bad album.

 

Now I won't go as far as Goober goes in his dislike of it. The song Ghost Rider is not totally horrible. It has some wonderful lyrics, great feeling to the singing & nice drum work. Even some nice pauses so that you can catch your breath. But the guitar sound is way to thick. It is the best song on the album.

 

Vapor Trails (the song)? The line "In a vapor trail" is well sung. The song has some nice drum work in it. But it has ton's and tons of horrible guitar work and for the most part Geddy's vocals are just awful as he try's to fight his way through the thick wall of horrible noise that infests the song.

 

Sweet Miracle? Some well written lyrics but they are totally ruined by bad music, more bad music and still more bad music. For the most part what could have been good lyrics were ruined by the style Geddy had to sing them in in order to push them through the fog of noise that infests the song.

 

How it is? Little bits and pieces of good singing and lyrics that are totally swept away by a garage band sound (and I don't like the sound - at all).

 

Ceiling Unlimited? Again, I will try to say something decent about the song. The drum work is good. But I don't find the lyrics to be all that special. As the song goes on it just becomes just a wall of noise with occasional cracks that some music comes through. Very bad.

 

Freeze? Are you kidding? This is the worst song on an awful album. Pure noise right from the start. Hideous. They call this music? Its pure sonic assault and battery. Nothing redeeming about the song. Garbage. I get a headache listening to it.

 

Basically the album sounds like about 5 guitars were playing all at once, not always in coordination, the lyrics are not aways well sung (in part because Geddy is trying to force them past the noise coming from the guitars), it sound like a garage band that is putting forth a wall of noise and some of the lyrics have some potential, some don't. But it always comes back to the way the music was written. Just bad, bad, bad.

 

I listened to it a lot when it came out and tried to like it - no luck. Stopped listening to it and went back much latter and discovered it was even worse then I had remembered it being. Just horrible.

 

By the way - S & A is very, very good. CA I have not completely made my mind up about yet. Like it but just have not finished digesting it (even after it being out a year).

 

Saw Rush on VT tour - loved the show. My favorite show of all time (and I have seen a lot of shows). But I liked it for all of the non - VT work. Or perhaps in spite of the VT work.

 

If you like it - good for you. Thats fine with me. But definitely not for me.

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

I'm assuming the songs you didn't mention are too terrible to talk about ;)

[Mika]

Does ANYONE have love for Out of the Cradle?! It's one of my all-time favorites...

 

Yes, I like 'Out of the Cradle'! Though I've always kind of thought that 'Freeze' could have been a good album closer, too, just in the way the ending riff sounds and then suddenly stops. For some reason, 'Out of the Cradle' gets kind of thought about, in my mind, as a 'bonus', and a great bonus! Embarrassingly, it took me a while to figure out what Geddy was saying with the 'endlessly rocking' parts! :P

 

Speaking of 'Freeze', this is another one that really grabs me. I really like the weird time meter and dark, churning beat. 'Nocturne', too, for its moody long bassy notes during the verses. And 'Sweet Miracle' has grown on because of the 'salvation' Geddy sings during the 'solo' part - again, didn't realize for a long time what he was saying, and thought it was just vocalization, but it sounds good.

 

And 'Peaceable Kingdom' is such a loud conglomeration of sounds - which I like - and I like the tarot card references. I remember my brother put this song on a compilation (of various artists) cd back in... wow, a decade ago... and it always stood out among the other songs he'd chosen.

 

Well, I think we've covered pretty much every song on VT now! :)

[Mika]

Why is Vapor Trails considered a weaker album, production values aside? I believe that VT is just as strong as Clockwork Angels—and Geddy's vocals are outstanding in every track. Ghost Rider, Vapor Trails, Sweet Miracle, How it is, Ceiling Unlimited, Freeze—seriously this album is awesome! Why the hate?

 

First of all, I would not say "weaker album". Worst Rush album (by far) is a better way to put it. I would not even say that it is a bad Rush album. Its just plain a very bad album.

 

Now I won't go as far as Goober goes in his dislike of it. The song Ghost Rider is not totally horrible. It has some wonderful lyrics, great feeling to the singing & nice drum work. Even some nice pauses so that you can catch your breath. But the guitar sound is way to thick. It is the best song on the album.

 

Vapor Trails (the song)? The line "In a vapor trail" is well sung. The song has some nice drum work in it. But it has ton's and tons of horrible guitar work and for the most part Geddy's vocals are just awful as he try's to fight his way through the thick wall of horrible noise that infests the song.

 

Sweet Miracle? Some well written lyrics but they are totally ruined by bad music, more bad music and still more bad music. For the most part what could have been good lyrics were ruined by the style Geddy had to sing them in in order to push them through the fog of noise that infests the song.

 

How it is? Little bits and pieces of good singing and lyrics that are totally swept away by a garage band sound (and I don't like the sound - at all).

 

Ceiling Unlimited? Again, I will try to say something decent about the song. The drum work is good. But I don't find the lyrics to be all that special. As the song goes on it just becomes just a wall of noise with occasional cracks that some music comes through. Very bad.

 

Freeze? Are you kidding? This is the worst song on an awful album. Pure noise right from the start. Hideous. They call this music? Its pure sonic assault and battery. Nothing redeeming about the song. Garbage. I get a headache listening to it.

 

Basically the album sounds like about 5 guitars were playing all at once, not always in coordination, the lyrics are not aways well sung (in part because Geddy is trying to force them past the noise coming from the guitars), it sound like a garage band that is putting forth a wall of noise and some of the lyrics have some potential, some don't. But it always comes back to the way the music was written. Just bad, bad, bad.

 

I listened to it a lot when it came out and tried to like it - no luck. Stopped listening to it and went back much latter and discovered it was even worse then I had remembered it being. Just horrible.

 

By the way - S & A is very, very good. CA I have not completely made my mind up about yet. Like it but just have not finished digesting it (even after it being out a year).

 

Saw Rush on VT tour - loved the show. My favorite show of all time (and I have seen a lot of shows). But I liked it for all of the non - VT work. Or perhaps in spite of the VT work.

 

If you like it - good for you. Thats fine with me. But definitely not for me.

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

Looks like you two have found kindred spritis!

[ShlappinDahBass]

We can agree to disagree here because you'll always hate the album—but calling it an embarassment is simply ridiculous in my opinion.

 

I think it's a ridiculous point of view to say it's anything BUT an embarrassment, but as you said, we'll agree to disagree. ;)

 

I do sincerely believe that by the way. One popular (and true) story is when I had my radio show for 5 years at a local community radio station. The computer contained a library of albums and songs that would play at random when live shows weren't happening, which was fairly regularly. I noticed at one point that someone had uploaded every single studio Rush album, and I took it upon myself to erase VT from the hard drive. I genuinely felt like I was doing some kind of community service by doing so, and here's why:

 

1. People didn't have to listen to something really bad.

 

2. I didn't have to feel shame by VT being played as representing my favorite band as it was a true (and yes, embarrassing) anomaly in their discography that should never be played, but forgotten about and hope it's never brought up again.

 

3. I was afraid people would hear it and make the logical assumption based on hearing that album that Rush sucks, and then they would never go and check out the band like they would be infinitely more likely to do if they heard a proper Rush album - I didn't want people to miss out on amazing band by being prejudiced against them forever.

 

Detractors to what I did have stated that what I did was unfair and that I robbed people of being able to hear the album and decide for themselves. All I can say is, when you have access to the database of a local radio station, feel free to put the album in regular rotation. I did what I thought was right, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

I will, actually, up and out say that Goobs is correct on showing this album to the public. There is absolutely no way this is a commercial album. Even if you're remotely a normal Rush fan, there's a fair chance you've never even heard of the album. The only song that is close to being commercially acceptable on the album is Earthshine, which is why it's more famous among most of hard rock bands.

 

I'm not saying everyone's opinions or true/false because an opinion is an opinion. If you hate or love an album, it should really be nobody else's business but yours. Music is an art form everyone in the world takes in differently and it should stay that way. I don't understand the hate towards Goober all the time. He makes very valid points for his opposing team. The points he makes don't necessarily bother me, though, because it is his opinion. People make him out to be some sort of Rush hating monster for just stating an opinion when peoples' heads are in the clouds and think it's blasphemy is you criticize one thing about the group. And he happens to probably be one of the more intelligent fans on this forum I know. So he, at least, knows what he is talking about instead of just saying "This song is good/bad." and that's it.

[rushgoober]

We can agree to disagree here because you'll always hate the album—but calling it an embarassment is simply ridiculous in my opinion.

 

I think it's a ridiculous point of view to say it's anything BUT an embarrassment, but as you said, we'll agree to disagree. ;)

 

I do sincerely believe that by the way. One popular (and true) story is when I had my radio show for 5 years at a local community radio station. The computer contained a library of albums and songs that would play at random when live shows weren't happening, which was fairly regularly. I noticed at one point that someone had uploaded every single studio Rush album, and I took it upon myself to erase VT from the hard drive. I genuinely felt like I was doing some kind of community service by doing so, and here's why:

 

1. People didn't have to listen to something really bad.

 

2. I didn't have to feel shame by VT being played as representing my favorite band as it was a true (and yes, embarrassing) anomaly in their discography that should never be played, but forgotten about and hope it's never brought up again.

 

3. I was afraid people would hear it and make the logical assumption based on hearing that album that Rush sucks, and then they would never go and check out the band like they would be infinitely more likely to do if they heard a proper Rush album - I didn't want people to miss out on amazing band by being prejudiced against them forever.

 

Detractors to what I did have stated that what I did was unfair and that I robbed people of being able to hear the album and decide for themselves. All I can say is, when you have access to the database of a local radio station, feel free to put the album in regular rotation. I did what I thought was right, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

I will, actually, up and out say that Goobs is correct on showing this album to the public. There is absolutely no way this is a commercial album. Even if you're remotely a normal Rush fan, there's a fair chance you've never even heard of the album. The only song that is close to being commercially acceptable on the album is Earthshine, which is why it's more famous among most of hard rock bands.

 

I'm not saying everyone's opinions or true/false because an opinion is an opinion. If you hate or love an album, it should really be nobody else's business but yours. Music is an art form everyone in the world takes in differently and it should stay that way. I don't understand the hate towards Goober all the time. He makes very valid points for his opposing team. The points he makes don't necessarily bother me, though, because it is his opinion. People make him out to be some sort of Rush hating monster for just stating an opinion when peoples' heads are in the clouds and think it's blasphemy is you criticize one thing about the group. And he happens to probably be one of the more intelligent fans on this forum I know. So he, at least, knows what he is talking about instead of just saying "This song is good/bad." and that's it.

 

He might be a Rush fan, but sometimes it's hard to tell with how much he goes on about the parts of the band he doesn't care for.

 

Even if the album isn't the most commercial, it still sucks that he takes it upon himself to deprive people of the chance to hear it and decide for themselves just because of his opinion.

 

It's not like I hate him, and I'm not saying that he's not a smart person, or clever*, just that his constant attention-grabbing need to respond to threads on Vapor Trails EVERY SINGLE TIME it comes up is really obnoxious. I mean, we already know his opinion, and we don't need to hear it over and over again. I can't tell you how many times I've PM'ed people telling them not to engage him because all he really wants is the attention. It's much better if you just ignore him as saying anything is just an invitation for him to keep going on and spewing his hate-filled diatrib....

 

Oh, um, wait... is this ME we're talking about... ?

 

 

 

 

Nevermind... and, um, thanks SDB!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*or strikingly handsome

[patjnev]

OLV sounded fantastic in concert that being said I didn't like much of VT. Earthshine and Ceiling Unlimited are the two tracks I listen to now . I often wondered why OLV sounded so well in concert as opposed to the recorded version . It could of been the excitement of being at a concert . I'm just not that schooled in the science of sound to know why . I have a feeling it has something to do with the tired old argument about how VT was recorded and mastered.

[Rhyta]

What is interesting is how RG thinks he is doing everyone a service by telling us our taste in music sucks but when he had a Twilight thread up and everyone starting telling him how much that book/series sucks, he had the thread closed. Why the two different standards?

[calirush]

Why is Vapor Trails considered a weaker album, production values aside? I believe that VT is just as strong as Clockwork Angels—and Geddy's vocals are outstanding in every track. Ghost Rider, Vapor Trails, Sweet Miracle, How it is, Ceiling Unlimited, Freeze—seriously this album is awesome! Why the hate?

 

 

 

Basically the album sounds like about 5 guitars were playing all at once, not always in coordination, the lyrics are not aways well sung (in part because Geddy is trying to force them past the noise coming from the guitars), it sound like a garage band that is putting forth a wall of noise and some of the lyrics have some potential, some don't. But it always comes back to the way the music was written. Just bad, bad, bad.

 

 

 

In a recording studio environment the other instruments should have no effect on Geddy's singing.

[rushgoober]

Why is Vapor Trails considered a weaker album, production values aside? I believe that VT is just as strong as Clockwork Angels—and Geddy's vocals are outstanding in every track. Ghost Rider, Vapor Trails, Sweet Miracle, How it is, Ceiling Unlimited, Freeze—seriously this album is awesome! Why the hate?

 

To answer your question at face value:

 

The songs just aren't there. The lyrics are depressing. The songs are too structured, formulaic, annoying, repetitive and every song sounds exactly the same and comes at you like an unrelenting freight train of noise and intensity without even a guitar solo or any discernible melody to break up the monotony. Then there's the annoying Geddy choirs and every song is too long with too many repeated choruses, and the album is WAY too long.

 

Then of course there's the obvious sound problems (hot, distorted, overdriven, clipped and the mix is just a soupy, sludgy mess without any instrument separation or breathing room) that renders it painfully unlistenable. Every time I've put it on in the past, literally my hand, without my brain telling it to do so, would start reaching for the volume control to turn it way down or turn it off. It actually physically hurts to listen to it. I was hoping at least THAT part of the problem would be solved when I heard the remixes on the Retrospective disc, but unfortunately it just made things worse. It wasn't physically painful anymore, but without that distraction it only magnified how weak the songs were underneath the bad sound quality, and that was just depressing.

 

The fact that they overcame so much tragedy and soldiered on is more than admirable, and I have sympathy for what the band, especially Neil went through, but it doesn't make the album one iota more listenable to me (maybe I just don't have the needed level of sentimentality or fan worship), and I still sincerely believe it's an embarrassment to their recorded legacy and should have been scrapped. Bands do it all the time when material isn't working - they scrap it and start again. They chose to release it - maybe because there was a looming tour, maybe because they'd worked on it for so long, had no objectivity after that much time and couldn't deal with the thought of having nothing to show for it at the end, maybe because they thought showing the raw honesty of their pain by releasing a depressing, unfinished sounding mess of an album was the right thing to do.

 

Regardless, it's a massive disappointment and even 10+ years on I still haven't gotten over the shock and disappointment of when I first put it on after waiting 6 years for a new album, but hey, most bands who live past a certain age make a terrible album or two - the Grateful Dead, Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Yes. I just never expected it from Rush. Their quality control was so high for so long. All I can do is be incredibly grateful for the really good S&A and the truly excellent CA - they really turned things around.

Edited June 17, 2013 by rushgoober

[LedRush]

We can agree to disagree here because you'll always hate the album—but calling it an embarassment is simply ridiculous in my opinion.

 

I think it's a ridiculous point of view to say it's anything BUT an embarrassment, but as you said, we'll agree to disagree. ;)

 

I do sincerely believe that by the way. One popular (and true) story is when I had my radio show for 5 years at a local community radio station. The computer contained a library of albums and songs that would play at random when live shows weren't happening, which was fairly regularly. I noticed at one point that someone had uploaded every single studio Rush album, and I took it upon myself to erase VT from the hard drive. I genuinely felt like I was doing some kind of community service by doing so, and here's why:

 

1. People didn't have to listen to something really bad.

 

2. I didn't have to feel shame by VT being played as representing my favorite band as it was a true (and yes, embarrassing) anomaly in their discography that should never be played, but forgotten about and hope it's never brought up again.

 

3. I was afraid people would hear it and make the logical assumption based on hearing that album that Rush sucks, and then they would never go and check out the band like they would be infinitely more likely to do if they heard a proper Rush album - I didn't want people to miss out on amazing band by being prejudiced against them forever.

 

Detractors to what I did have stated that what I did was unfair and that I robbed people of being able to hear the album and decide for themselves. All I can say is, when you have access to the database of a local radio station, feel free to put the album in regular rotation. I did what I thought was right, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

I will, actually, up and out say that Goobs is correct on showing this album to the public. There is absolutely no way this is a commercial album. Even if you're remotely a normal Rush fan, there's a fair chance you've never even heard of the album. The only song that is close to being commercially acceptable on the album is Earthshine, which is why it's more famous among most of hard rock bands.

 

I'm not saying everyone's opinions or true/false because an opinion is an opinion. If you hate or love an album, it should really be nobody else's business but yours. Music is an art form everyone in the world takes in differently and it should stay that way. I don't understand the hate towards Goober all the time. He makes very valid points for his opposing team. The points he makes don't necessarily bother me, though, because it is his opinion. People make him out to be some sort of Rush hating monster for just stating an opinion when peoples' heads are in the clouds and think it's blasphemy is you criticize one thing about the group. And he happens to probably be one of the more intelligent fans on this forum I know. So he, at least, knows what he is talking about instead of just saying "This song is good/bad." and that's it.

 

Secret Touch remains one of my wife's favorite songs, and my friends actually love Ghost Rider. I've also gotten good responses for Ceiling Unlimited, OLV (which I don't like very much) and How it Is. Compare that to Counterparts or S&A, which have very few songs that non-Rush fans can stomach, which explains the bad sales of CP after the well-received RTB, and why the energy at the S&A shows just died after Far Cry. 5 out of 9 friends over two different shows fell asleep during the S&A sting of songs. I had one friend who loved it better than the rest, so different strokes, I understand.

[rushgoober]

We can agree to disagree here because you'll always hate the album—but calling it an embarassment is simply ridiculous in my opinion.

 

I think it's a ridiculous point of view to say it's anything BUT an embarrassment, but as you said, we'll agree to disagree. ;)

 

I do sincerely believe that by the way. One popular (and true) story is when I had my radio show for 5 years at a local community radio station. The computer contained a library of albums and songs that would play at random when live shows weren't happening, which was fairly regularly. I noticed at one point that someone had uploaded every single studio Rush album, and I took it upon myself to erase VT from the hard drive. I genuinely felt like I was doing some kind of community service by doing so, and here's why:

 

1. People didn't have to listen to something really bad.

 

2. I didn't have to feel shame by VT being played as representing my favorite band as it was a true (and yes, embarrassing) anomaly in their discography that should never be played, but forgotten about and hope it's never brought up again.

 

3. I was afraid people would hear it and make the logical assumption based on hearing that album that Rush sucks, and then they would never go and check out the band like they would be infinitely more likely to do if they heard a proper Rush album - I didn't want people to miss out on amazing band by being prejudiced against them forever.

 

Detractors to what I did have stated that what I did was unfair and that I robbed people of being able to hear the album and decide for themselves. All I can say is, when you have access to the database of a local radio station, feel free to put the album in regular rotation. I did what I thought was right, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

I will, actually, up and out say that Goobs is correct on showing this album to the public. There is absolutely no way this is a commercial album. Even if you're remotely a normal Rush fan, there's a fair chance you've never even heard of the album. The only song that is close to being commercially acceptable on the album is Earthshine, which is why it's more famous among most of hard rock bands.

 

I'm not saying everyone's opinions or true/false because an opinion is an opinion. If you hate or love an album, it should really be nobody else's business but yours. Music is an art form everyone in the world takes in differently and it should stay that way. I don't understand the hate towards Goober all the time. He makes very valid points for his opposing team. The points he makes don't necessarily bother me, though, because it is his opinion. People make him out to be some sort of Rush hating monster for just stating an opinion when peoples' heads are in the clouds and think it's blasphemy is you criticize one thing about the group. And he happens to probably be one of the more intelligent fans on this forum I know. So he, at least, knows what he is talking about instead of just saying "This song is good/bad." and that's it.

 

Secret Touch remains one of my wife's favorite songs, and my friends actually love Ghost Rider. I've also gotten good responses for Ceiling Unlimited, OLV (which I don't like very much) and How it Is. Compare that to Counterparts or S&A, which have very few songs that non-Rush fans can stomach, which explains the bad sales of CP after the well-received RTB, and why the energy at the S&A shows just died after Far Cry. 5 out of 9 friends over two different shows fell asleep during the S&A sting of songs. I had one friend who loved it better than the rest, so different strokes, I understand.

 

Counterparts has TONS of great material - I'd be especially proud and happy to play any of the first four tracks for anyone - they might not be my first choice of intro songs as they're pretty heavy, but they're all amazing tracks, especially Animate and Nobody's Hero. And S&A - same thing - the first three songs especially are outstanding. Far Cry and especially Armor & Sword would be truly excellent introductions to the band - amazing monster tracks.

 

Any time a band plays a string of songs from the new album in a row they're going to lose a lot of their audience, especially a band like Rush that's been around for so long that a lot of the people there are only there to hear their old classics. That's definitely a mistake IMHO to play so many songs off the latest album in a row - 4 or 5 should be the max, and spread out a bit.

[GeddysMullet]

What is interesting is how RG thinks he is doing everyone a service by telling us our taste in music sucks but when he had a Twilight thread up and everyone starting telling him how much that book/series sucks, he had the thread closed. Why the two different standards?

 

His rationale for that was along the lines that it's okay to slam Rush on a Rush board because it's "debate" and there will be defenders, but that poor maligned Twilight is a valuable piece of literature that should not be insulted in a place where dwell only heathens who refuse to recognise its true greatness. Or something

[rushgoober]

What is interesting is how RG thinks he is doing everyone a service by telling us our taste in music sucks but when he had a Twilight thread up and everyone starting telling him how much that book/series sucks, he had the thread closed. Why the two different standards?

 

His rationale for that was along the lines that it's okay to slam Rush on a Rush board because it's "debate" and there will be defenders, but that poor maligned Twilight is a valuable piece of literature that should not be insulted in a place where dwell only heathens who refuse to recognise its true greatness. Or something

 

Regardless of the OT issue meant to distract from the conversation at hand, none of that makes VT anything more than garbage that should have never been released.

[Principled Man]

What is interesting is how RG thinks he is doing everyone a service by telling us our taste in music sucks but when he had a Twilight thread up and everyone starting telling him how much that book/series sucks, he had the thread closed. Why the two different standards?

 

 

Narcissistic, self-righteous hypocrisy. Pathological inability to admit error or fault. Obsessive personality disorder, manifested by endless last-word arguments.

 

That about covers it...... :eyeroll: :o ;)

[rushgoober]

What is interesting is how RG thinks he is doing everyone a service by telling us our taste in music sucks but when he had a Twilight thread up and everyone starting telling him how much that book/series sucks, he had the thread closed. Why the two different standards?

 

 

Narcissistic, self-righteous hypocrisy. Pathological inability to admit error or fault. Obsessive personality disorder, manifested by endless last-word arguments.

 

That about covers it...... :eyeroll: :o ;)

 

I'll buy narcissistic, self-righteous and hypocritical, but not the pathological inability to admit error as how can an opinion be erroneous? And as I've often said, only mostly jokingly, while all opinions are subjective, VT sucking is the exception - it objectively sucks. :P

 

Personality disorder? Maybe. Debatable.

 

Getting the last word in on arguments? Usually, yeah, I'll give you that one too. Case in point. ;)

Edited June 17, 2013 by rushgoober

[Lerxster]

What is interesting is how RG thinks he is doing everyone a service by telling us our taste in music sucks but when he had a Twilight thread up and everyone starting telling him how much that book/series sucks, he had the thread closed. Why the two different standards?

Soon you will find how he thinks uninteresting, then boring and predictable. Then you'll realize 90% of his posts are self-serving and full of negativity that are better off left unread.

[rushgoober]

What is interesting is how RG thinks he is doing everyone a service by telling us our taste in music sucks but when he had a Twilight thread up and everyone starting telling him how much that book/series sucks, he had the thread closed. Why the two different standards?

Soon you will find how he thinks uninteresting, then boring and predictable. Then you'll realize 90% of his posts are self-serving and full of negativity that are better off left unread.

 

And yet people keep reading them because they just can't help themselves. :P

 

Aren't most posts by everyone in some way self-serving?

 

Full of negativity I would say more like 5% of my posts tops - those one just get the most attention. That is, if you consider honest opinions about music to really be negative. Of course only the unpopular posts that people disagree with are considered negative. If I put down Justin Beiber, people would just join in and think it was fun or funny. ;)

 

The hilarious thing to me is, no matter how anyone wants to come after me for having and voicing my opinions... it STILL doesn't make vapor trails any better!

Edited June 17, 2013 by rushgoober

[rushgoober]

Come on people, don't feed the troll by just giving him the attention he obviously wants.

 

Oh wait, we're still talking about me here... ?

 

 

 

 

Nevermind.

 

:P

[JohnnyBlaze]

What is interesting is how RG thinks he is doing everyone a service by telling us our taste in music sucks but when he had a Twilight thread up and everyone starting telling him how much that book/series sucks, he had the thread closed. Why the two different standards?

Soon you will find how he thinks uninteresting, then boring and predictable. Then you'll realize 90% of his posts are self-serving and full of negativity that are better off left unread.

 

And yet people keep reading them because they just can't help themselves. :P

 

Aren't most posts by everyone in some way self-serving?

 

Full of negativity I would say more like 5% of my posts tops - those one just get the most attention. That is, if you consider honest opinions about music to really be negative. Of course only the unpopular posts that people disagree with are considered negative. If I put down Justin Beiber, people would just join and think it was fun or funny. ;)

 

The hilarious thing to me is, no matter how anyone wants to come after me for having and voicing my opinions... it STILL doesn't make vapor trails any better!

Typical goober replies on these occassions:

- We'll have to agree to disagree.

- You've already made up your mind so there's nothing more I can say.

- I respect your opinion but you're not being objective about it.

 

So where does your Rush fan rebel theory fit here goobs? Many here have stated that they like VT but you stand by your opinion of NOT liking it. And that's completely fine (I'm no major fan of the album either actually). But why is it so sinful when others dislike shit that you like (Twilight)? Why do you feel so crushed when someone rips things you like but you can rip others' interests so freely? It makes completely NO sense at all

[rushgoober]

What is interesting is how RG thinks he is doing everyone a service by telling us our taste in music sucks but when he had a Twilight thread up and everyone starting telling him how much that book/series sucks, he had the thread closed. Why the two different standards?

Soon you will find how he thinks uninteresting, then boring and predictable. Then you'll realize 90% of his posts are self-serving and full of negativity that are better off left unread.

 

And yet people keep reading them because they just can't help themselves. :P

 

Aren't most posts by everyone in some way self-serving?

 

Full of negativity I would say more like 5% of my posts tops - those one just get the most attention. That is, if you consider honest opinions about music to really be negative. Of course only the unpopular posts that people disagree with are considered negative. If I put down Justin Beiber, people would just join and think it was fun or funny. ;)

 

The hilarious thing to me is, no matter how anyone wants to come after me for having and voicing my opinions... it STILL doesn't make vapor trails any better!

Typical goober replies on these occassions:

- We'll have to agree to disagree.

- You've already made up your mind so there's nothing more I can say.

- I respect your opinion but you're not being objective about it.

 

So where does your Rush fan rebel theory fit here goobs? Many here have stated that they like VT but you stand by your opinion of NOT liking it. And that's completely fine (I'm no major fan of the album either actually). But why is it so sinful when others dislike shit that you like (Twilight)? Why do you feel so crushed when someone rips things you like but you can rip others' interests so freely? It makes completely NO sense at all

 

I guess I'm just one of the great mysteries of life. :P

 

The difference is here there's a debate with people on both sides of the issue. When I bring up some subjects that aren't popular it's just a slaughter, so I'm learning (slowly, because obviously I'm pretty dense ;) ) to stop bringing up things that EVERYONE hates and just massacres me on because it's just not fun. Rush said it best - be cool or be cast out.

 

And I'm not completely stupid. I know exactly how I COULD post, how I could frame things so no one was ever offended by my opinions on music and how to avoid subjects completely that were in any way controversial. I could be the most loved and loveable popular little poster imaginable by towing the line and catering only to what's acceptable and appreciated if I wanted to. I could either pretend to love everything Rush has ever done or to shut up about it if there was anything they did that I didn't like. It's just simply too f*cking boring to do so. Might as well make it a little spicy. :P

Edited June 17, 2013 by rushgoober

[Pound of Obscure]

Why is Vapor Trails considered a weaker album, production values aside? I believe that VT is just as strong as Clockwork Angels—and Geddy's vocals are outstanding in every track. Ghost Rider, Vapor Trails, Sweet Miracle, How it is, Ceiling Unlimited, Freeze—seriously this album is awesome! Why the hate?

 

For me there just isn't a song on the album that makes me want to pull it out and listen again. An incredibly important album for the band and for the fans. For that I will always appreciate it.

[JohnnyBlaze]

What is interesting is how RG thinks he is doing everyone a service by telling us our taste in music sucks but when he had a Twilight thread up and everyone starting telling him how much that book/series sucks, he had the thread closed. Why the two different standards?

Soon you will find how he thinks uninteresting, then boring and predictable. Then you'll realize 90% of his posts are self-serving and full of negativity that are better off left unread.

 

And yet people keep reading them because they just can't help themselves. :P

 

Aren't most posts by everyone in some way self-serving?

 

Full of negativity I would say more like 5% of my posts tops - those one just get the most attention. That is, if you consider honest opinions about music to really be negative. Of course only the unpopular posts that people disagree with are considered negative. If I put down Justin Beiber, people would just join and think it was fun or funny. ;)

 

The hilarious thing to me is, no matter how anyone wants to come after me for having and voicing my opinions... it STILL doesn't make vapor trails any better!

Typical goober replies on these occassions:

- We'll have to agree to disagree.

- You've already made up your mind so there's nothing more I can say.

- I respect your opinion but you're not being objective about it.

 

So where does your Rush fan rebel theory fit here goobs? Many here have stated that they like VT but you stand by your opinion of NOT liking it. And that's completely fine (I'm no major fan of the album either actually). But why is it so sinful when others dislike shit that you like (Twilight)? Why do you feel so crushed when someone rips things you like but you can rip others' interests so freely? It makes completely NO sense at all

 

I guess I'm just one of the great mysteries of life. :P

 

The difference is here there's a debate with people on both sides of the issue. When I bring up some subjects that aren't popular it's just a slaughter, so I'm learning (slowly, because obviously I'm pretty dense ;) ) to stop bringing up things that EVERYONE hates and just massacres me on because it's just not fun. Rush said it best - be cool or be cast out. ;)

 

And I'm not completely stupid. I know exactly how I COULD post, how I could frame things so no one was ever offended by my opinions on music and how to avoid subjects completely that were in any way controversial. I could be the most loved and loveable popular little poster imaginable by towing the line and catering only to what's acceptable and appreciated if I wanted to be. I could pretend to love everything Rush has ever done or to shut up about it if there was anything they did that I didn't like. It's just simply too f*cking boring to do so.

I'm not completely stupid either. Your 'difference here is there's a debate' thought is rubbish. You've shown countless times that you're offended, debates included, when someone disagrees with music, shows, movies that you like.

Oh, many other TRFers aren't stupid either. They know you're pushing buttons. You're like that bozo at the carnival sitting over the dunk tank that tosses teasings at passerbys in hopes they'll be offended and spend some money on a few baseballs to dunk your ass in that pool of water. The smarter TRFers (or those that know you) will know it's mostly in jest BUT some can't help but be pissed off by those rushgoober pokes and heckles.

http://www.entertainmentcaterers.com/images/dunk_tank.jpg

[canadianice]

Vapor trails is a CLASSIC, now everyone just STFU!