Why do you NOT like Vapor Trails?

[PocketWatch]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 18 2012, 01:35 AM)

There are Rush albums I'm not crazy about, but VT is the only one I truly hate and think is an embarrassment to their legacy.  All I can say is thank God for S&A as it redeemed them somewhat.

 

Pretty much my view. I wouldn't necessarily call it an embarrassment but it's certainly the only one I can't tolerate.

[kena2112]

I met my husband 2 1/2yrs ago and he has been a RUSH fan since the early 90's. So when we got together I immediately became a huge fan myself. He took me to see The Time Machine Tour twice (ATL and Nashville ) I love these guys. I must say that Vapor Trails was one of my first favorite albums. Although the production may not be great.....to me the music and lyrics make the album. Although I am sure when it is remastered it will be AWESOME !!

[Tony R]

You can't polish a turd.

[PumpkinHead]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Feb 18 2012, 07:41 PM)

You can't polish a turd.

But can you tune-a-fish?

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_T2buuNUUNTA/TUNv1pXMNRI/AAAAAAAAEe4/uxg0OLtoNLw/s1600/expensive-tuna-fish.jpg

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (PumpkinHead @ Feb 18 2012, 05:51 PM)

QUOTE (Tony R @ Feb 18 2012, 07:41 PM) You can't polish a turd. But can you tune-a-fish?   http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_T2buuNUUNTA/TUNv1pXMNRI/AAAAAAAAEe4/uxg0OLtoNLw/s1600/expensive-tuna-fish.jpg http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/r/reo-speedwagon/album-you-can-tune-a-piano-but-you-cant-tuna-fish.jpg

[Dylan2712]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Feb 18 2012, 05:41 PM)

You can't polish a turd.

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 17 2012, 01:59 AM)

QUOTE (Todem @ Feb 16 2012, 10:52 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 15 2012, 11:13 PM) QUOTE (CruisingInPrimetime @ Feb 15 2012, 06:21 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Feb 15 2012, 11:08 AM) Terrible Sound quality aside, I agree with a few others that at the end of the day this is a pretty average album by Rush standards. Take away One Little Victory, Ghost Rider, and Earthshine and the rest are just meh....whether you have an album the quality of a Moving Pictures sonically or not... Actually, Rush is really due for a great album. Snakes, Vapor, and Echo were all not so good for Rush Then you just don't get it. I'd recommend giving them more listens.   The deficiency is on your end, not Rush's. There's plenty of people who think all of those albums are brilliant. I've never understood this argument or line of thinking. If you don't like an album, you don't like an album. It's no one's fault. It's not like the artist made an objectively great work that if you don't like it's because you're not evolved enough or somehow are at fault for not being able to appreciate objective greatness.   No, all art is subjective. There is majority opinion, but even that is ultimately meaningless in the face of individual subjective opinion, which is all anyone really has, regardless of what anyone else says.   Telling people to listen to albums more is pointless. I would imagine LeaveMyThingAlone, like me, like almost every Rush fan who doesn't like any given Rush album, has tried many, MANY times to get into whatever album that is, only to be disappointed by the result over and over. It's not for a lack of trying.   No true Rush fan WANTS to dislike an album. For me it was only after arduous listening and trying desperately to get into certain albums that I had to eventually admit defeat, and it wasn't pleasant. I personally am crushed when they make a song or album I think is sub-standard, but it's not my fault if I don't like the result. It just is what it is... I will choose Freewill.   I never understood why anyone would kick, scream and argue and try to make someone "see the light" on a piece of art. Be it music, movies, paintings, a book, whatever.   Even if it is light hearted good natured discussion. It is music. It is totally subjective.   You don't like the album.   Who cares.   I hear you Goober. It is futile. God knows I've spent a lot of time going on and on about groups or albums that I love desperately, defending them, etc. Of course it's futile to an extent - if a person tries an album and doesn't like it, they just don't like it, but I can understand the passion behind talking up and trying to "sell" an album to someone.   Usually, however, if a person hears an album once or twice and doesn't dig it, the conversation is finished - it's accepted the person just doesn't like it. With Rush, people feel a lot of pressure to like all their albums. I know I do. I can't stand when I don't like a Rush album. I listened to this album SO many more times than I wanted to, so many more times than I would listen to ANY album by ANY OTHER group I didn't initially like in order to get into it. At some point, however, you have to give up the ghost. One thing about this post, I totally agree with feeling the "pressure" to like a RUSH album. On my first listens of S&A I wasn't sold. After about a month of going from other albums and back to S&A it started to hit me.   And I agree that sometimes, you try to get into an album and no matter what you do, or what people tell you, you just don't hear it like they do.   That said, and again, I agree with the pressure to like a RUSH album, but this poll is totally anonymous and most people voted that they like VT. Very few don't. Now why people would lie on an anonymous poll, is beyond me. I am sure some just click "Yes, love it" because of the "pressure" you speak of. But since it doesn't show how you voted, I tend to trust that people voted how they feel. And the majority, like Vapor Trails.   I am as honest as I can be on this forum, and I assume, others are. (That does make me an ass, I know) but it blows my mind that people would lie about liking something they don't...anonymously!   Again, while I respect everyone's right like what they like and it's all subjective opinion. I still don't get the people who don't like VT. Not trying to convince anyone, just saying I just can't believe, other than the sound quality, why anyone wouldn't like it. Again, it is futile to argue it...but I think it's valid to debate it and I think it's interesting to hear why people don't like VT. I just don't get it.   Until CA comes out, what else do we have to argue...I mean debate about?

[psionic11]

At this point in time, the poll shows 53% like VT.

 

In other words, half of us don't like VT. In other, other words, saying "very few don't" like VT is an incorrect conclusion. Anonymous or not.

 

Just sayin'....

 

 

PS: I want to like VT, I really do. But the shrill vocals, dense textures, and grating sound quality just make it to unbearable most of the time.

 

Shrill vocals most of us tend to like, since we like Rush. But Rush albums have almost always very good, if not great, sound quality.

 

T4E is boring, with average sound quality. VT just hurts.

Edited February 21, 2012 by psionic11

[GeminiRising79]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Feb 18 2012, 07:41 PM)

You can't polish a turd.

Actually you can, but it still is what it is.

Edited February 21, 2012 by GeminiRising79

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (psionic11 @ Feb 20 2012, 10:39 PM)

At this point in time, the poll shows 53% like VT. In other words, half of us don't like VT. In other, other words, saying "very few don't" like VT is an incorrect conclusion. Anonymous or not. Just sayin'....

But you're leaving out the:

 

I don't like the mixing and sound quality [ 38 ] [29.92%]

 

They are saying they don't like the sound quality only, so since they had the choice of picking they didn't like the lyrics, the music OR the lyrics and music OR lyrics, music and sound quality, then you have to assume the 29.92% at least like the album lyrically and musically making it 83.46% who love or like Vapor Trails.

 

So therefore, I would say MOST people love or like Vapor Trails.

 

Just a different way of interpreting the results.

 

 

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Feb 20 2012, 07:57 PM)

QUOTE (psionic11 @ Feb 20 2012, 10:39 PM) At this point in time, the poll shows 53% like VT. In other words, half of us don't like VT.  In other, other words, saying "very few don't" like VT is an incorrect conclusion.  Anonymous or not. Just sayin'.... But you're leaving out the:   I don't like the mixing and sound quality [ 38 ] [29.92%]   They are saying they don't like the sound quality only, so since they had the choice of picking they didn't like the lyrics, the music OR the lyrics and music OR lyrics, music and sound quality, then you have to assume the 29.92% at least like the album lyrically and musically making it 83.46% who love or like Vapor Trails.   So therefore, I would say MOST people love or like Vapor Trails.   Just a different way of interpreting the results.   I agree with psionic on this one. 53% are saying they love the album regardless. First off, this is 53% of hardcore Rush fans, which is why I like to site the rateyourmusic page for Rush, as that gives a more accurate depiction of a wider view of the album, not just the people who will listen to it over and over and over in a desperate attempt to like or love it if it doesn't hit them initially. Most people aren't so kind. The people who do come out and speak out against the album (and there have been many posts like that on this thread) tend to be very vocal and definitive about how much they can't stand the album.   And people voting that "I don't like the mixing and sound quality" are not necessarily saying, but otherwise the album is stellar. Many of them might be saying that, but not necessarily all of them.   But, and here's the BIG but, you can't separate the sound quality from the entire album experience. The album doesn't exist as this remixed remastered crystal clear thing. It exists as a relentlessly overdubbed, densely layered album with VERY LOUD mixing/mastering/clipping/brickwalling, etc. To say, yeah, but I hear the goodness underneath is nice, but that's not the way the album was released, even though some work hard at not noticing the crappy sound.   For example, there's a psychedelic 60's album (I can't recall the name of it right now) that gets pretty good reviews. Almost everyone who reviews it has said, man, this would be a GREAT album if the sound quality wasn't complete garbage. I have that album, and I completely agree. I hear the potential for greatness underneath horrible sound quality. The end result? Completely unlistenable album that's sad to listen to, because it could have been great. Maybe they'll come back and fix VT in some way and even more people will say they love it without an addendum or corollary or qualifier, but that's not the case now.   I seem to remember that when the two remixed tracks came out on that best of that it got very mixed reviews from TRF members, so there's no guarantee that even a remixed album will be universally warmly received. Many will still say they prefer the version that sounds like shit. I remember hearing those two remixed tracks, and if anything it just made me more sad about VT. Yeah, the painful ear part of the listening experience was gone, but all it did for me was show how weak the songs were to begin with. Like has been said before, you can't polish....

[Snowman]

Well, I like VT. It is far from their best release but imo they have only released from good to fantastic albums.

 

I can ealisy name 6-7 quality tracks from VT.

 

The lyrics are a bit dark but understandable from Neils experiences

 

I wasn't walking on water

I was standing on a reef

When the tide came in

Swept beneath the surface

No hope at all

No hope at all

 

Now this is actually a positive lyric describing how a person works his way back into the light after heavy losses, I guess....Anyway, this is dynamite and you can feel all the emotions he have put behind this.

 

 

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

[rushgoober]

[ghostworks]

[metaldad]

They have Not made a Great album since Signals.....carry on

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

[Tommy Sawyer]

[LyndseyG]

QUOTE (kena2112 @ Feb 19 2012, 12:30 AM)

I met my husband 2 1/2yrs ago and he has been a RUSH fan since the early 90's. So when we got together I immediately became a huge fan myself. He took me to see The Time Machine Tour twice (ATL and Nashville ) I love these guys. I must say that Vapor Trails was one of my first favorite albums. Although the production may not be great.....to me the music and lyrics make the album. Although I am sure when it is remastered it will be AWESOME !!

Welcome to TRF!!

 

 

 

I have a hearing impairment and I'm not an audiophile. We live on a narrowboat and, due to power constraints, we can't have a top notch sound system. However when we move off the boat (possibly later this year) we will be getting the best sound system we can afford.

 

To be honest I didn't know there was a problem with the sound on VT until I read about here. Despite this I still can't hear the problems others have mentioned. It just sounds "warm" to me. I like it that way.

 

I would be very interested to hear the remixed/remastered version when it comes out.

 

I love Vapor Trails!

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

[circumstantial tree]

Vapor Trails is an excellent album. If you don't like it, you're not a true Rush fan.

[PocketWatch]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Feb 21 2012, 01:25 PM)

They have Not made a Great album since Signals.....carry on

I consider Signals a below-par album, partly hampered by its following Moving Pictures. Having said that Signals does contain some of my favourite Rush songs!

[canadianice]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Feb 21 2012, 01:25 PM)

They have Not made a Great album since Signals.....carry on

Are you sure you are not MENTALdad???

[eshine]

When it comes down to it - it's the songwriting that counts, and Vapor trails contains some breathtakingly good songs. Earthsine alone is just about as good a Rush song as they have ever written.

 

The album is a decade old (good Lord) - if you didn't like it out of the gate, or at least appreciate the quality of the writing, it's highly unlikely a remix will make much of a difference. I mean, yes the production is bad - but for Ged sakes you can still hear the songs lol.

 

Personally - I think VT is a highly flawed, brazenly indulgent and highly emotional work. It cannot be categorized alongside any other work by the band (I don't think Snakes sounds anything at all like this record - production -wise or in the songwriting)

 

It's a work by a band with nothing to lose - done with reckless abandon that surely makes it the most polarizing album they have released since GUP.

[drbirdsong]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Feb 21 2012, 01:25 PM)

They have Not made a Great album since Signals.....carry on

They have not made a great album since Time Machine 2011: Live In Cleveland and I await the next one.

 

I think that the live versions of the Vapor Trails songs over the years show that they are powerful songs, especially Secret Touch. As more and more time passes without a remaster/remix Vapor Trails may just fade into what it already is and be a bump on the Rush timeline. Either way is fine. I love it warts and all. I try not to lie to myself about the warts.