Ancient Ways Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 They must feel pretty good about it to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 QUOTE (presto123 @ Feb 9 2012, 04:53 PM) To all the religious zealots that have been bashing Neil......open mouth insert foot here. Not so fast, junior..... You know as well as I do this album will be littered with Peeert's anti-religious drivel! I don't have faith (blah, blah, blah)..... Move on, old man!!! http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Rizzor/beatingadeadhorse.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielmclark Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Gilbertk @ Feb 9 2012, 05:20 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Feb 9 2012, 03:35 PM) Well this answers one very important question and raises another: We now know for a fact that the Watchmaker is a character in a story, and not simply an allusion to the Christian god (or any specific god). While I might concede after hearing the whole album that the parallel is intentional, we know now that this is primarily a character in a story. So, does that change your opinion about this supposedly blatant personal attack on religion? Can we see now that Neil has simply written a story and populated it with characters? I wrote a story that revolved around a serial murderer years ago - doesn't mean I'm a serial murderer myself. Anderson's description is a far cry (see what I did there?) from the people here frothing at the mouth over how CA is going to be a giant anti-Christian/anti-religion/pro-atheism album. This was my immediate thought when I read this. It was a relief, but you never know.. although The Watchmaker is a character in the story, he could represent God in the story. QUOTE "All is for the best Believe in what we're told Blind men in the market Buying what we're sold Believe in what we're told Until our final breath While our loving Watchmaker Loves us all to death" To me that is still a religious critique. He's saying that people grow up believing what they are taught and they never question it, and God who we believe to love us, allows us to die. Now, I TOTALLY disagree with the sentiment, but I'm just saying that this is what I see when I read this, and it's not at all surprising coming from Neil. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. I'd prefer no religious commentary, but Neil is a big boy and he can do as he pleases. I do want happy Neil back though That's your interpretation based on what you think of Neil's own beliefs. Try looking at it more literally. Think of it in terms of a character, a person, who calls himself the Watchmaker (suitable for a steampunk story). Don't put your own opinions about what Neil believes onto the characters that he is creating. He might not mean what you think he means. On a related note, and a general comment not directed at any one person here - it pisses me off when people try to tell me exactly what an author intended, meant or was trying to say, especially when the author him/herself says otherwise. I was in an English class in high school years ago, and the teacher was telling us some bullsht about how the reader has the power to interpret the writing however the reader wishes and it doesn't matter what the author says about it. Bloody retarded. If the author tells you what the story is about, you can't make crap up and say it's about something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gompers Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 After this news, I am, um, a little bit excited for this release. Just a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 interesting little read but i still don't like the two new songs. heck i haven't heard them or wanted to listen to them since 4/10/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (presto123 @ Feb 9 2012, 04:53 PM) To all the religious zealots that have been bashing Neil......open mouth insert foot here. This is awesome. Gives me a 2112 vibe. This is going to be epic.(pun intended) i still think neil took a couple of jabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowItIs Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) In a young man's quest to follow his dreams, he is caught between the grandiose forces of order and chaos. He travels across a lavish and colorful world of steampunk and alchemy, with lost cities, pirates, anarchists, exotic carnivals, and a rigid Watchmaker who imposes precision on every aspect of daily life. I TOLD YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! QUOTE I'm waiting for How It Is to read this thread and give a big "I TOLD YOU SO" to those that were doubting. I have to admit to being on the fence about the Watchmaker myself. I'm glad to see the science fiction concept album isn't dead. Bring on the movie. Happy to oblige, Dr. B Edited February 10, 2012 by HowItIs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyLeeFender Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Feb 9 2012, 08:16 PM) interesting little read but i still don't like the two new songs. heck i haven't heard them or wanted to listen to them since 4/10/11. Give them another listen, at least with me certain Rush has to be heard multiple times to "Set in" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
presto123 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (GeddyLeeFender @ Feb 9 2012, 09:31 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Feb 9 2012, 08:16 PM) interesting little read but i still don't like the two new songs. heck i haven't heard them or wanted to listen to them since 4/10/11. Give them another listen, at least with me certain Rush has to be heard multiple times to "Set in" I've been purposely avoiding them for the most part as to not get burnt out but I loved them when I first heard them and I still get instant goosebumps every time I do give them a spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucsteve667 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg2112 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Wow. Sounds like a legit concept album. Pretty damn excited about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losingit2k Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 It is great to hear someone place one of Rush's album in such company! Imagine if someone had written the novel of The Wall, Tommy, or Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band when those classic albums were released. For Rush fans, CLOCKWORK ANGELS is that project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdFireYYZ Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Pirates, carnivals, and lost cities! This is going to be epic! And no, this isn't sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losingit2k Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I believe the Watchmaker is going to be a character like The Source in "The Matrix" a guy that runs everything! Kind of like the priests in 2112! Regardless I'm pretty physched! Edited February 10, 2012 by losingit2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
They Bow Defeated Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (danielmclark @ Feb 9 2012, 04:54 PM)If it's a deity, then it must be a deity that takes physical form or otherwise affects the world directly - "...Watchmaker who imposes...". Our real world gods don't impose anything; it's the humans of the faith that do the imposing. I don't think Anderson would have phrased it that way if it was a deity. Well, I was thinking that the Priests might do the imposing for the Watchmaker. "Watchmaker" seems to imply the "clockwork universe" theory, so he would seem to be the supreme being or creator. But, yeah, at this point he could be a deity, human ruler, ancient computer, who knows? Maybe it's just some guy who makes really nice watches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
They Bow Defeated Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 By the way, next I want Kevin Anderson to write a novelization of 2112... And then Hemispheres Books I and II... And then Peter Jackson or Chris Nolan turns all these Rush novels into big-screen epic films... I can't stop thinking big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielmclark Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Feb 9 2012, 09:52 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Feb 9 2012, 04:54 PM)If it's a deity, then it must be a deity that takes physical form or otherwise affects the world directly - "...Watchmaker who imposes...". Our real world gods don't impose anything; it's the humans of the faith that do the imposing. I don't think Anderson would have phrased it that way if it was a deity. Well, I was thinking that the Priests might do the imposing for the Watchmaker. "Watchmaker" seems to imply the "clockwork universe" theory, so he would seem to be the supreme being or creator. But, yeah, at this point he could be a deity, human ruler, ancient computer, who knows? Maybe it's just some guy who makes really nice watches? Possibly! One thing's for sure, I can't wait to find out. This whole project just took a major turn into "OMFG HURRY UP"-ville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeminiRising79 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Feb 9 2012, 10:57 PM) I can't stop thinking big. http://thoronir.net/puke.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowItIs Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Feb 9 2012, 09:08 PM) QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Feb 9 2012, 09:52 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Feb 9 2012, 04:54 PM)If it's a deity, then it must be a deity that takes physical form or otherwise affects the world directly - "...Watchmaker who imposes...". Our real world gods don't impose anything; it's the humans of the faith that do the imposing. I don't think Anderson would have phrased it that way if it was a deity. Well, I was thinking that the Priests might do the imposing for the Watchmaker. "Watchmaker" seems to imply the "clockwork universe" theory, so he would seem to be the supreme being or creator. But, yeah, at this point he could be a deity, human ruler, ancient computer, who knows? Maybe it's just some guy who makes really nice watches? Possibly! One thing's for sure, I can't wait to find out. This whole project just took a major turn into "OMFG HURRY UP"-ville. Can't wait!!! QUOTE On a related note, and a general comment not directed at any one person here - it pisses me off when people try to tell me exactly what an author intended, meant or was trying to say, especially when the author him/herself says otherwise. I was in an English class in high school years ago, and the teacher was telling us some bullsht about how the reader has the power to interpret the writing however the reader wishes and it doesn't matter what the author says about it. Bloody retarded. If the author tells you what the story is about, you can't make crap up and say it's about something else. Oh man, I'm with you 100% on this! In my Sophomore year my Modern Lit teacher (who was quite fond of this philosophy) was not pleased with my book report on The Fellowship of The Ring. Especially when I quote the author as to it NOT being an allegory for anything. She was peeved but what could she do? I quoted the author. Edited February 10, 2012 by HowItIs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 of the 7 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I read Kevin J. Anderson's Jedi Academy trilogy a few moons ago, and might have to re-read them now. Can't wait to read what he does with CA, and it's great to have a preview of the album! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 As I've always said from when BU2B came out, all we had to go on was that song, even if it was supposedly part of a story. They didn't release it as a story, they released it as a song out of context, and the only context we could give it was the song itself. It was their decision to release those two songs 3 years before the album came out, and to play them live. I hate to say it, but we still, as far as I'm concerned, have nothing definitive to say that the Watchmaker doesn't represent Neil's concept of God, even though it's a "character" in the story, and we won't know definitively until the album comes out. What the song is about remains to me what I've always thought it was about... until I hear it in context and see if it truly is something more benign. I'd be happy to be wrong as it's a truly obnoxious preachy concept that I hope isn't in any more songs. And as I've said many times, before being accused of being a religious zealot, that I find preaching on either side of the equation to be really obnoxious in a rock song, especially a Rush song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucsteve667 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 10 2012, 01:11 AM) As I've always said from when BU2B came out, all we had to go on was that song, even if it was supposedly part of a story. They didn't release it as a story, they released it as a song out of context, and the only context we could give it was the song itself. It was their decision to release those two songs 3 years before the album came out, and to play them live. I hate to say it, but we still, as far as I'm concerned, have nothing definitive to say that the Watchmaker doesn't represent Neil's concept of God, even though it's a "character" in the story, and we won't know definitively until the album comes out. What the song is about remains to me what I've always thought it was about... until I hear it in context and see if it truly is something more benign. I'd be happy to be wrong as it's a truly obnoxious preachy concept that I hope isn't in any more songs. And as I've said many times, before being accused of being a religious zealot, that I find preaching on either side of the equation to be really obnoxious in a rock song, especially a Rush song. I never thought of you as a zealot, stubborn yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan2712 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 BU2B is not blatantly bashing religion as much as this song is: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (ucsteve667 @ Feb 9 2012, 11:15 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Feb 10 2012, 01:11 AM) As I've always said from when BU2B came out, all we had to go on was that song, even if it was supposedly part of a story. They didn't release it as a story, they released it as a song out of context, and the only context we could give it was the song itself. It was their decision to release those two songs 3 years before the album came out, and to play them live. I hate to say it, but we still, as far as I'm concerned, have nothing definitive to say that the Watchmaker doesn't represent Neil's concept of God, even though it's a "character" in the story, and we won't know definitively until the album comes out. What the song is about remains to me what I've always thought it was about... until I hear it in context and see if it truly is something more benign. I'd be happy to be wrong as it's a truly obnoxious preachy concept that I hope isn't in any more songs. And as I've said many times, before being accused of being a religious zealot, that I find preaching on either side of the equation to be really obnoxious in a rock song, especially a Rush song. I never thought of you as a zealot, stubborn yes... I'll admit to stubborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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