Is Rap Music?

[treeduck]

QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 22 2011, 07:22 PM)

is pretentious

Your specialty...

 

[skalamander2112]

QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 22 2011, 07:22 PM)

QUOTE (skalamander2112 @ May 22 2011, 08:14 PM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ May 22 2011, 04:55 PM) I don't like it, but it's undeniably music. I mean, even that where song that is literally silence for a period of time is considered music. If anyone knows the name of it, please remind me. "4'33" by John Cage Cage is a total gimmick composer, and 4'33" is a stupid piece. The concept is interesting, but the execution is pretentious...that's actually one piece of "music" that i would go so far as to say isn't actually music. I couldn't disagree with you more

[Silas Lang]

You can call it music if you wish, I just don't find it to be very musical. There's rhythm (an element of music) but precious little melody, variety or singing. So it's just really bad music. It does nothing for me so consequently I have no interest in it.

[Mr. Not]

You know what.. On second thought maybe rap isn't music.. Because dubstep sure isn't!

 

 

 

No, I josh.. But yes, dubstep is another horrible genre.. Though admittedly interesting.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Kenneth

[rushgoober]

Is it music? Who cares.

 

Is it good? No.

[rushgoober]

I remember when rap first became very popular. I thought, oh, here's yet another trend. I figured like most trends, it would go away in 2-4 years or so, but nope, on and on it goes for decade after painful decade. The charts are still littered with c-rap to this day. Amazing... Edited May 23, 2011 by rushgoober

[WCFIELDS]

QUOTE (treeduck @ May 22 2011, 06:24 PM)

QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 22 2011, 07:22 PM) is pretentious Your specialty...   no shit eh?

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 22 2011, 07:22 PM)

QUOTE (skalamander2112 @ May 22 2011, 08:14 PM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ May 22 2011, 04:55 PM) I don't like it, but it's undeniably music. I mean, even that where song that is literally silence for a period of time is considered music. If anyone knows the name of it, please remind me. "4'33" by John Cage Cage is a total gimmick composer, and 4'33" is a stupid piece. The concept is interesting, but the execution is pretentious...that's actually one piece of "music" that i would go so far as to say isn't actually music.   4'33" was a stunt. Cage was trying to prove a point, but his premise was totally wrong. Musicians can never be truly free from social connections and cultural influences when they write and perform music. You cannot create or experience pure music, free from human interference, because music itself is a human concept and invention. Humans create music, be it with their bodies, their voices, or with constructed instruments. Without humans, music would not exist.

[Spindrift82]

I like some rap. I think it's interesting.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (skalamander2112 @ May 22 2011, 05:14 PM)

QUOTE (Kenneth @ May 22 2011, 04:55 PM) I don't like it, but it's undeniably music. I mean, even that where song that is literally silence for a period of time is considered music. If anyone knows the name of it, please remind me. "4'33" by John Cage Oh yes.. Thanks.

[invisibleairwaves]

QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 22 2011, 03:24 PM)

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ May 22 2011, 04:06 PM) I don't think so. Rap sucks! I mean, I don't really care about you talking about your personal life over a fake drum beat with no real instruments! Without instruments, there is no music! You're stupid! oh boy, not this topic again   Rap does not in fact have anything to do with the music and instrumentation (or lack thereof), it's a style of lyric delivery, and it's been done over every sort of backing track from electronic/hip-hop to rock to jazz. Plenty of rap groups have real musicians in them (sometimes in addition to synth or computer "players"). And it does take a legitimate knowledge of music to create a good beat. It also takes a good sense of rhythm to rap over it.   It is true that most of the rap that gets mainstream exposure is pretty horrible and talentless, but how is that any different from the kind of rock that gets mainstream exposure, the kind of pop that gets mainstream exposure, etc...? It's okay to dislike or even hate a certain genre, but it's not okay to discredit it or accuse it of "not being music" without doing a little research first.   Having had the chance to working on beats with some fairly experienced people, I can tell you it is absolutely a musical style. It isn't just taking a sampled drum beat and looping it. The number of completely ignorant statements on display in this thread is astounding. I agree, people seriously need to get a clue about what they're talking about before they declare it "not music".

Edited May 23, 2011 by invisibleairwaves

[Tommy Sawyer]

You guys do realize this poll is a joke, right?

 

I mean, we all know ©rap sucks and isn't music...

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (invisibleairwaves @ May 22 2011, 08:05 PM)

QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 22 2011, 03:24 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ May 22 2011, 04:06 PM) I don't think so. Rap sucks! I mean, I don't really care about you talking about your personal life over a fake drum beat with no real instruments! Without instruments, there is no music! You're stupid! oh boy, not this topic again   Rap does not in fact have anything to do with the music and instrumentation (or lack thereof), it's a style of lyric delivery, and it's been done over every sort of backing track from electronic/hip-hop to rock to jazz. Plenty of rap groups have real musicians in them (sometimes in addition to synth or computer "players"). And it does take a legitimate knowledge of music to create a good beat. It also takes a good sense of rhythm to rap over it.   It is true that most of the rap that gets mainstream exposure is pretty horrible and talentless, but how is that any different from the kind of rock that gets mainstream exposure, the kind of pop that gets mainstream exposure, etc...? It's okay to dislike or even hate a certain genre, but it's not okay to discredit it or accuse it of "not being music" without doing a little research first.   Having had the chance to working on beats with some fairly experienced people, I can tell you it is absolutely a musical style. It isn't just taking a sampled drum beat and looping it. The number of completely ignorant statements on display in this thread is astounding. I agree, people seriously need to get a clue about what they're talking about before they declare it "not music". For some of us we can't stand the genre so much that whether it's music or not is just a pointless semantic argument.   It's like putting dogshit on a canvas and calling it art. Is it art? Probably. Would you want it in your living room? Probably not.

[Tommy Sawyer]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 22 2011, 11:31 PM)

QUOTE (invisibleairwaves @ May 22 2011, 08:05 PM) QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 22 2011, 03:24 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ May 22 2011, 04:06 PM) I don't think so. Rap sucks! I mean, I don't really care about you talking about your personal life over a fake drum beat with no real instruments! Without instruments, there is no music! You're stupid! oh boy, not this topic again   Rap does not in fact have anything to do with the music and instrumentation (or lack thereof), it's a style of lyric delivery, and it's been done over every sort of backing track from electronic/hip-hop to rock to jazz. Plenty of rap groups have real musicians in them (sometimes in addition to synth or computer "players"). And it does take a legitimate knowledge of music to create a good beat. It also takes a good sense of rhythm to rap over it.   It is true that most of the rap that gets mainstream exposure is pretty horrible and talentless, but how is that any different from the kind of rock that gets mainstream exposure, the kind of pop that gets mainstream exposure, etc...? It's okay to dislike or even hate a certain genre, but it's not okay to discredit it or accuse it of "not being music" without doing a little research first.   Having had the chance to working on beats with some fairly experienced people, I can tell you it is absolutely a musical style. It isn't just taking a sampled drum beat and looping it. The number of completely ignorant statements on display in this thread is astounding. I agree, people seriously need to get a clue about what they're talking about before they declare it "not music". For some of us we can't stand the genre so much that whether it's music or not is just a pointless semantic argument.   It's like putting dogshit on a canvas and calling it art. Is it art? Probably. Would you want it in your living room? Probably not. Why did I post this poll? Because I love ranting against rap. Do I care what others think? Will these posts change my opinion? Just here on TRF to have fun.

[fledgehog]

QUOTE (Kenneth @ May 22 2011, 10:27 PM)

You know what.. On second thought maybe rap isn't music.. Because dubstep sure isn't! No, I josh.. But yes, dubstep is another horrible genre.. Though admittedly interesting.

no doubt it takes a certain degree of skill to create a dubstep mix, but it's a total joke of a genre. I can't take seriously any genre that has a tempo requirement (almost all dubstep is in the 138-142 bpm range). It's not so much the genre that pisses me off as its followers/fanbase, and their ridiculous culture. I have a feeling I'd be more open to the concept of dubstep if I didn't automatically associate it with hopped-up partier bros who won't shut up about how "filthy" it is.

[fledgehog]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ May 22 2011, 10:55 PM)

QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 22 2011, 07:22 PM) QUOTE (skalamander2112 @ May 22 2011, 08:14 PM) QUOTE (Kenneth @ May 22 2011, 04:55 PM) I don't like it, but it's undeniably music. I mean, even that where song that is literally silence for a period of time is considered music. If anyone knows the name of it, please remind me. "4'33" by John Cage Cage is a total gimmick composer, and 4'33" is a stupid piece. The concept is interesting, but the execution is pretentious...that's actually one piece of "music" that i would go so far as to say isn't actually music.   4'33" was a stunt. Cage was trying to prove a point, but his premise was totally wrong. Musicians can never be truly free from social connections and cultural influences when they write and perform music. You cannot create or experience pure music, free from human interference, because music itself is a human concept and invention. Humans create music, be it with their bodies, their voices, or with constructed instruments. Without humans, music would not exist. Like I said, the concept is intriguing -- I actually support the idea that there is beauty and music in silence. But what makes the piece a gimmick is the idea that the performer walks out, sits down at the piano (sometimes with score in hand), and follows "directions" given on the score. It's gimmicky because it's not natural, and it's pretentious because Cage simply assumes that he can orchestrate, choreograph and rehearse SILENCE and bill it as its own piece of music...as a consequence, the result essentially becomes a parody of the original concept. It's also largely a publicity stunt. Cage couldn't give two shits if people REALLY know the story behind it, as long as people remember it as "that piece that's total silence" that's good enough for him.

[fledgehog]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ May 22 2011, 11:34 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 22 2011, 11:31 PM) QUOTE (invisibleairwaves @ May 22 2011, 08:05 PM) QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 22 2011, 03:24 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ May 22 2011, 04:06 PM) I don't think so. Rap sucks! I mean, I don't really care about you talking about your personal life over a fake drum beat with no real instruments! Without instruments, there is no music! You're stupid! oh boy, not this topic again   Rap does not in fact have anything to do with the music and instrumentation (or lack thereof), it's a style of lyric delivery, and it's been done over every sort of backing track from electronic/hip-hop to rock to jazz. Plenty of rap groups have real musicians in them (sometimes in addition to synth or computer "players"). And it does take a legitimate knowledge of music to create a good beat. It also takes a good sense of rhythm to rap over it.   It is true that most of the rap that gets mainstream exposure is pretty horrible and talentless, but how is that any different from the kind of rock that gets mainstream exposure, the kind of pop that gets mainstream exposure, etc...? It's okay to dislike or even hate a certain genre, but it's not okay to discredit it or accuse it of "not being music" without doing a little research first.   Having had the chance to working on beats with some fairly experienced people, I can tell you it is absolutely a musical style. It isn't just taking a sampled drum beat and looping it. The number of completely ignorant statements on display in this thread is astounding. I agree, people seriously need to get a clue about what they're talking about before they declare it "not music". For some of us we can't stand the genre so much that whether it's music or not is just a pointless semantic argument.   It's like putting dogshit on a canvas and calling it art. Is it art? Probably. Would you want it in your living room? Probably not. Why did I post this poll? Because I love ranting against rap. Do I care what others think? Will these posts change my opinion? Just here on TRF to have fun. I could make a thread about how jazz is just a bunch of CHH-CHHHHH CH CHH-CHHHH CH with a stoned horn player noodling around on top of it. It may be funny to me, and it may be a very common stereotype about the genre, but that doesn't make it any less incorrect or misinformed.   Although that would explain why your poll choices are so skewed and rigged, and leave very little middle ground.

Edited May 23, 2011 by fledgehog

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ May 22 2011, 08:34 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 22 2011, 11:31 PM) QUOTE (invisibleairwaves @ May 22 2011, 08:05 PM) QUOTE (fledgehog @ May 22 2011, 03:24 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ May 22 2011, 04:06 PM) I don't think so. Rap sucks! I mean, I don't really care about you talking about your personal life over a fake drum beat with no real instruments! Without instruments, there is no music! You're stupid! oh boy, not this topic again   Rap does not in fact have anything to do with the music and instrumentation (or lack thereof), it's a style of lyric delivery, and it's been done over every sort of backing track from electronic/hip-hop to rock to jazz. Plenty of rap groups have real musicians in them (sometimes in addition to synth or computer "players"). And it does take a legitimate knowledge of music to create a good beat. It also takes a good sense of rhythm to rap over it.   It is true that most of the rap that gets mainstream exposure is pretty horrible and talentless, but how is that any different from the kind of rock that gets mainstream exposure, the kind of pop that gets mainstream exposure, etc...? It's okay to dislike or even hate a certain genre, but it's not okay to discredit it or accuse it of "not being music" without doing a little research first.   Having had the chance to working on beats with some fairly experienced people, I can tell you it is absolutely a musical style. It isn't just taking a sampled drum beat and looping it. The number of completely ignorant statements on display in this thread is astounding. I agree, people seriously need to get a clue about what they're talking about before they declare it "not music". For some of us we can't stand the genre so much that whether it's music or not is just a pointless semantic argument.   It's like putting dogshit on a canvas and calling it art. Is it art? Probably. Would you want it in your living room? Probably not. Why did I post this poll? Because I love ranting against rap. Do I care what others think? Will these posts change my opinion? Just here on TRF to have fun. One time I created thread called something like "Country Music... is the work of the devil." Some people didn't like that one either.   I will say ONE positive thing about rap - it's better than country music, but then again, so is getting dental work.

[ReRushed]

Because of this thread I whipped out my copies of 3 Feet High & Rising and The Low End Theory. Fun and inventive stuff.

 

Next up, Patsy Cline's Greatest Hits and The Best of Lefty Frizzell!

[Tommy Sawyer]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 22 2011, 11:48 PM)

One time I created thread called something like "Country Music... is the work of the devil." Some people didn't like that one either. I will say ONE positive thing about rap - it's better than country music, but then again, so is getting dental work.

Ya I hate country music, too. But at least it is real music. There is some redeeming value in listening to country, I just have never found it. Rap, on the other hand, has NO redeeming qualities in my eyes.

 

Oh, and I can imagine some people didn't like your thread. I approve, though

[Bastille Dave]

I dont like rap but sorry to say it is music.

[Xanadu93]

>see fledge mention a TRF rap thread on Facebook

>head to TRF for first time in several days to check it out

>statements in support of rap using logic and firsthand experience

>typical HURR DURR ALL OF IT SUCKS statements

>a few statements by those who simply don't like it

 

Never change, TRF. Never change.

[Oracle]

QUOTE (Xanadu93 @ May 23 2011, 01:54 AM)

>see fledge mention a TRF rap thread on Facebook >head to TRF for first time in several days to check it out >statements in support of rap using logic and firsthand experience >typical HURR DURR ALL OF IT SUCKS statements >a few statements by those who simply don't like it Never change, TRF. Never change.

>my face when greentext

 

http://i54.tinypic.com/2r3k20w.jpg

[RUSHHEAD666]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ May 22 2011, 01:06 PM)

I don't think so. Rap sucks! I mean, I don't really care about you talking about your personal life over a fake drum beat with no real instruments! Without instruments, there is no music! You're stupid!

I might be showing my age here but the old school rap from the late Seventies and Early Eighties is brilliant.

 

Once Public Enema, I mean Enemy came into the stream it was pretty much over for me, although I did enjoy the first Easy Earl, I mean E cd.

 

Liked the NWA shit too.

 

After that forget it.

 

But let's back up a bit.

 

The old school stuff was great.

 

I'm talking about groups like Grandmaster Flash, Sugar Hill Gang, RUN DMC, Whodini, early LL COOL J and of course the Beastie Boys.

 

Rap in the modern age is pure shit.

 

There is no hope for this genre of garbage.

 

Signed,

 

THE KING OF ROCK!

 

 

 

 

Please pick up "Raising Hell" by RUN DMC ASAP!

 

RIP JAM MASTER JAY!

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (Oracle @ May 22 2011, 10:58 PM)

QUOTE (Xanadu93 @ May 23 2011, 01:54 AM) >see fledge mention a TRF rap thread on Facebook >head to TRF for first time in several days to check it out >statements in support of rap using logic and firsthand experience >typical HURR DURR ALL OF IT SUCKS statements >a few statements by those who simply don't like it Never change, TRF. Never change. >my face when greentext   http://i54.tinypic.com/2r3k20w.jpg >hijack?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-wvDKAgXSo&t=10m05s   http://imageshack.us/m/42/3217/unlednj.png