What would you have done?

[Mr. Not]

holy sh!t, I mean I've seen worse on the internet - and I wasn't expecting this to be that bad since it's on youtube but wow.. Those security guards could have easily saved that girls life... What dumb asses. Videos like this just disturb me

[Tick]

QUOTE (Mara @ Feb 12 2010, 11:21 AM)

I'm sorry. I freely admit that I would not jump into the fray (forget, for the sake of argument, that I am female). I'd call the cops, solicit the aid of others. I suppose it does not paint me in the best light to admit this. I know I have some responsibility to the greater good of humanity. But I also have a responsibility to my family to NOT get fired, sued, OR -and this is a distinct possibility these days - end up dead or hospitalized with knife or gunshot wounds.

I understand, but if you were the guard you may have felt different considering the kid was counting on you not to be killed. These were 3 grown men, not women.

 

Myself personally, I have always been a react first, worry about what happens later.

[ILSnwdog]

QUOTE (Pags @ Feb 12 2010, 08:53 AM)

QUOTE (thesweetscience @ Feb 12 2010, 08:41 AM) QUOTE (tick @ Feb 12 2010, 09:24 AM) QUOTE (Mara @ Feb 12 2010, 09:22 AM) I smell a lawsuit. Or two.  This will piss you off even more.  My sister-in-law is a public school teacher.  They are not permitted to touch the students, even to break up a fight like the one in the video.  As far as I know they haven't had any serious injuries or deaths, but then she teaches 3rd grade. That is complete crap!!!! The rules must change!!! This world has it f***ing head up its ass. Its liability. One kid is beating on another and you grab him and his parents sue you and the school and they win. The teacher gets fired and the school system has to eat a huge settlement loss or take an insurance claim which causes said insurance premiums to go up or even be dropped. That's the way it works and its not going to change. As long as common sense on this planet remains suspended this is the kind of wacky shit you will see. It really has turned ass-backward in this society. It's disgusting to have to accept that it's okay to watch a girl being beaten, and just stand there. Or have to be a teacher who can't break up a fight or else be sued.   When is society going to take a step back and realize we're getting it WRONG! When we start getting rid of all of the lawyers. When we can protect people who try to do good from being sued, then perhaps common sense will prevail.   Half of the worlds lawyers practice in this country!

[thesweetscience]

QUOTE (tick @ Feb 12 2010, 11:29 AM)

QUOTE (Mara @ Feb 12 2010, 11:21 AM) I'm sorry.  I freely admit that I would not jump into the fray (forget, for the sake of argument, that I am female).  I'd call the cops, solicit the aid of others. I suppose it does not paint me in the best light to admit this.  I know I have some responsibility to the greater good of humanity. But I also have a responsibility to my family to NOT get fired, sued, OR -and this is a distinct possibility these days - end up dead or hospitalized with knife or gunshot wounds. I understand, but if you were the guard you may have felt different considering the kid was counting on you not to be killed. These were 3 grown men, not women.   Myself personally, I have always been a react first, worry about what happens later. You are a smart guy tick and that's reckless thinking. What good does it do you or your family if you get hurt, killed, arrested or sued. I know you want to help but I think in most people who are in the situation and don't have time to analyze it to death like we do in this thread, would freeze up and hesitate because the consequences to you could be disastrous and an instinct of self preservation would kick in.   The smart thing for the bystander in this situation would be to just call the police.

[Ya_Big_Tree]

QUOTE (Mara @ Feb 12 2010, 08:22 AM)

I smell a lawsuit. Or two. This will piss you off even more. My sister-in-law is a public school teacher. They are not permitted to touch the students, even to break up a fight like the one in the video. As far as I know they haven't had any serious injuries or deaths, but then she teaches 3rd grade.

I went to an all girl highschool and if you think that girls only get into cat-fights... you're wrong. If a fight ever broke out in class the teachers couldn't physically touch a student, it was the students responsibility to pull the girls apart before they killed eachother. When ever a fight broke out that caused any injury or damage to school proprety or weapons were used, the police were always called and assault charges were discussed. The school wanted to keep as clean as it could be. I've had to be involved a few times over the breaking up of a few fights in class... but time and time again the teachers couldn't do anything except yell at them to stop and then tell them to go to the office once we got them apart.

 

When it came to actually physically touching a student in a non-confrontational matter I dunno if it was allowed or not but I have a heart condition that causes me to pass out randomly sometimes. In highschool I can recall 2 times where I passed out in the hall and a teacher had carried me downstairs to the office. They never got in trouble for that.

[Tarkus406]

QUOTE (Ya_Big_Tree @ Feb 12 2010, 11:06 AM)

QUOTE (Mara @ Feb 12 2010, 08:22 AM) I smell a lawsuit. Or two.  This will piss you off even more.  My sister-in-law is a public school teacher.  They are not permitted to touch the students, even to break up a fight like the one in the video.  As far as I know they haven't had any serious injuries or deaths, but then she teaches 3rd grade. I went to an all girl highschool and if you think that girls only get into cat-fights... you're wrong. If a fight ever broke out in class the teachers couldn't physically touch a student, it was the students responsibility to pull the girls apart before they killed eachother. When ever a fight broke out that caused any injury or damage to school proprety or weapons were used, the police were always called and assault charges were discussed. The school wanted to keep as clean as it could be. I've had to be involved a few times over the breaking up of a few fights in class... but time and time again the teachers couldn't do anything except yell at them to stop and then tell them to go to the office once we got them apart.   When it came to actually physically touching a student in a non-confrontational matter I dunno if it was allowed or not but I have a heart condition that causes me to pass out randomly sometimes. In highschool I can recall 2 times where I passed out in the hall and a teacher had carried me downstairs to the office. They never got in trouble for that. At least they cared enough to do that. Here, teachers hesitate to call for medical help!

[Digital Man]

[workingcinderellaman]

QUOTE (thesweetscience @ Feb 12 2010, 11:01 AM)

QUOTE (tick @ Feb 12 2010, 11:29 AM) QUOTE (Mara @ Feb 12 2010, 11:21 AM) I'm sorry.  I freely admit that I would not jump into the fray (forget, for the sake of argument, that I am female).  I'd call the cops, solicit the aid of others. I suppose it does not paint me in the best light to admit this.  I know I have some responsibility to the greater good of humanity. But I also have a responsibility to my family to NOT get fired, sued, OR -and this is a distinct possibility these days - end up dead or hospitalized with knife or gunshot wounds. I understand, but if you were the guard you may have felt different considering the kid was counting on you not to be killed. These were 3 grown men, not women.   Myself personally, I have always been a react first, worry about what happens later. You are a smart guy tick and that's reckless thinking. What good does it do you or your family if you get hurt, killed, arrested or sued. I know you want to help but I think in most people who are in the situation and don't have time to analyze it to death like we do in this thread, would freeze up and hesitate because the consequences to you could be disastrous and an instinct of self preservation would kick in.   The smart thing for the bystander in this situation would be to just call the police. What in the hell are security guards for? I would think that something like this would be their job.   As far as the lawsuits go, maybe people should start suing security guards or the bus terminals and malls who hire them and allow someone to beat their daughter to a pulp. Fights don't last long and it only takes one kick to the head to fracture the skull or break the neck. In this video the 15 year old girl was repeatedly doing this. If she wasn't going to stop and if you waited the fifteen minutes for the cop to get there, you could have a death on your hands.   Just my 2 cents, but If security guards can't break up a fight between some girls, then the bus terminal should save the money and get rid of them.   Even a bystander should have intervened when that girl was repeatedly kicking her. What kind of society do we live in?

[workingcinderellaman]

[Ya_Big_Tree]

QUOTE (workingcinderellaman @ Feb 12 2010, 12:22 PM)

What kind of society do we live in?

An apathetic one obviously.

 

I agree about firing the security guards. What the hell are the paid $10-$15/hr to do if not intervene when some lil 15 year old twit attacks another person? Pulling her off the girl and taking her to a detainment room till the police arrive is an appropriate course of action you would think.

[Mara]

QUOTE (workingcinderellaman @ Feb 12 2010, 01:22 PM)

QUOTE (thesweetscience @ Feb 12 2010, 11:01 AM) QUOTE (tick @ Feb 12 2010, 11:29 AM) QUOTE (Mara @ Feb 12 2010, 11:21 AM) I'm sorry.  I freely admit that I would not jump into the fray (forget, for the sake of argument, that I am female).  I'd call the cops, solicit the aid of others. I suppose it does not paint me in the best light to admit this.  I know I have some responsibility to the greater good of humanity. But I also have a responsibility to my family to NOT get fired, sued, OR -and this is a distinct possibility these days - end up dead or hospitalized with knife or gunshot wounds. I understand, but if you were the guard you may have felt different considering the kid was counting on you not to be killed. These were 3 grown men, not women.   Myself personally, I have always been a react first, worry about what happens later. You are a smart guy tick and that's reckless thinking. What good does it do you or your family if you get hurt, killed, arrested or sued. I know you want to help but I think in most people who are in the situation and don't have time to analyze it to death like we do in this thread, would freeze up and hesitate because the consequences to you could be disastrous and an instinct of self preservation would kick in.   The smart thing for the bystander in this situation would be to just call the police. What in the hell are security guards for? I would think that something like this would be their job.   As far as the lawsuits go, maybe people should start suing security guards or the bus terminals and malls who hire them and allow someone to beat their daughter to a pulp. Fights don't last long and it only takes one kick to the head to fracture the skull or break the neck. In this video the 15 year old girl was repeatedly doing this. If she wasn't going to stop and if you waited the fifteen minutes for the cop to get there, you could have a death on your hands.   Just my 2 cents, but If security guards can't break up a fight between some girls, then the bus terminal should save the money and get rid of them.   Even a bystander should have intervened when that girl was repeatedly kicking her. What kind of society do we live in? One would certainly think 3 security guards would be sufficient to break up a fight of that nature without having to use injurious force. I don't agree with firing them for inaction, though. Much more likely, if their contract is that specific that they aren't supposed to intervene bodily, they'd be fired for doing so. Outrageous, though. (And all it takes is for one of the girls to shriek that one of the guys grabbed her boob or whatever).   Schools here now have "resource officers", police who have been trained for that sort of thing. They are armed and they are "real police"; their employer is whatever municipal force serves the school. Sick that we have to have such a thing at all.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Mara

[Tick]

QUOTE (thesweetscience @ Feb 12 2010, 12:01 PM)

QUOTE (tick @ Feb 12 2010, 11:29 AM) QUOTE (Mara @ Feb 12 2010, 11:21 AM) I'm sorry.  I freely admit that I would not jump into the fray (forget, for the sake of argument, that I am female).  I'd call the cops, solicit the aid of others. I suppose it does not paint me in the best light to admit this.  I know I have some responsibility to the greater good of humanity. But I also have a responsibility to my family to NOT get fired, sued, OR -and this is a distinct possibility these days - end up dead or hospitalized with knife or gunshot wounds. I understand, but if you were the guard you may have felt different considering the kid was counting on you not to be killed. These were 3 grown men, not women.   Myself personally, I have always been a react first, worry about what happens later. You are a smart guy tick and that's reckless thinking. What good does it do you or your family if you get hurt, killed, arrested or sued. I know you want to help but I think in most people who are in the situation and don't have time to analyze it to death like we do in this thread, would freeze up and hesitate because the consequences to you could be disastrous and an instinct of self preservation would kick in.   The smart thing for the bystander in this situation would be to just call the police. I should probably say, that I was like that in my 20's into my early 30's. I can't tell you how I would react today to certain situations. (I know how I would react to that one)   I will say I had no fear in my 20's. I was raised by a father will a severe temper and I certainly shared it when it trouble situations. I have have had many fist fights in my life in my younger years. I would venture to say more then the average guy. I played in bar bands and hung out in bars almost every night. I have beat the shit out of people and have got the shit kicked out of me before. I know what its like to walk through the door at home with my face a bloody mess, and being pissed off that I got my ass kicked, while my mother freaks out.   So, yes, I have a lot to loose and I'm not that guy I was back then, but I don't know if I could watch a young girl possibly die while I stand and watch, and if that's irresponsible, then I guess I am to a certain degree, but I have a daughter and if she was in that position, I pray to God some adult male would not stand back and watch it happen to her.

Edited February 12, 2010 by tick

[Alsgalpal]

I saw this video this morning on the news. It made me sick and absolutely angry. If I was a bystander, I would have dialed 911. I would have tried to diffuse the situation.

 

I that were my daughter that was being attacked, I would press every charge imaginable, or if were my daughter doing to beating I would have turned her in. There is no excuse for that. Period.

[workingcinderellaman]

QUOTE (Mara @ Feb 12 2010, 01:14 PM)

QUOTE (workingcinderellaman @ Feb 12 2010, 01:22 PM) QUOTE (thesweetscience @ Feb 12 2010, 11:01 AM) QUOTE (tick @ Feb 12 2010, 11:29 AM) QUOTE (Mara @ Feb 12 2010, 11:21 AM) I'm sorry.  I freely admit that I would not jump into the fray (forget, for the sake of argument, that I am female).  I'd call the cops, solicit the aid of others. I suppose it does not paint me in the best light to admit this.  I know I have some responsibility to the greater good of humanity. But I also have a responsibility to my family to NOT get fired, sued, OR -and this is a distinct possibility these days - end up dead or hospitalized with knife or gunshot wounds. I understand, but if you were the guard you may have felt different considering the kid was counting on you not to be killed. These were 3 grown men, not women.   Myself personally, I have always been a react first, worry about what happens later. You are a smart guy tick and that's reckless thinking. What good does it do you or your family if you get hurt, killed, arrested or sued. I know you want to help but I think in most people who are in the situation and don't have time to analyze it to death like we do in this thread, would freeze up and hesitate because the consequences to you could be disastrous and an instinct of self preservation would kick in.   The smart thing for the bystander in this situation would be to just call the police. What in the hell are security guards for? I would think that something like this would be their job.   As far as the lawsuits go, maybe people should start suing security guards or the bus terminals and malls who hire them and allow someone to beat their daughter to a pulp. Fights don't last long and it only takes one kick to the head to fracture the skull or break the neck. In this video the 15 year old girl was repeatedly doing this. If she wasn't going to stop and if you waited the fifteen minutes for the cop to get there, you could have a death on your hands.   Just my 2 cents, but If security guards can't break up a fight between some girls, then the bus terminal should save the money and get rid of them.   Even a bystander should have intervened when that girl was repeatedly kicking her. What kind of society do we live in? One would certainly think 3 security guards would be sufficient to break up a fight of that nature without having to use injurious force. I don't agree with firing them for inaction, though. Much more likely, if their contract is that specific that they aren't supposed to intervene bodily, they'd be fired for doing so. Outrageous, though. (And all it takes is for one of the girls to shriek that one of the guys grabbed her boob or whatever).   Schools here now have "resource officers", police who have been trained for that sort of thing. They are armed and they are "real police"; their employer is whatever municipal force serves the school. Sick that we have to have such a thing at all. Yes it is.   I wasn't saying they should fire them for what happened. From what I understand they were doing exactly what they were trained to do.   QUOTE The victim told a King County sheriff's detective that the group followed her from a nearby department store into the bus tunnel at Westlake Station on Jan. 28, and she deliberately stood next to the three guards. The guards didn't intervene, though. They have standing orders to "observe and report," so they called police but did nothing else as another 15-year-old girl punched and repeatedly kicked the victim in the head. Government officials as well as executives at Olympic Security Services Inc., which employs the guards, are reviewing that protocol after the guards' response was caught on surveillance video. "I went to the security and told them that these kids were trying to jump me," the girl said. "I know that I am about to get jumped and I am hanging around the guards to try and get protection. ... I thought the security guards would defend me."       They have standing orders to "observe and report"? That's what a security camera does, and for a lot less money. So what I was saying is that if that's their policy, then they could save a ton of money by getting rid of security guards altogether and simply use the camera that caught the incident to "observe and report". The guards are completely useless and after this gets out, every hood who wants to mug someone in the Seattle bus terminal will know that.

[Fridge]

To all of you who say they would stand back and not get involved due to fear of the consequences:

 

Has it ever occured to you that the reason these teenage thugs are so emboldened is precisely because of that attitude? How brave do you think they would be if it was the norm that every time someone was attacked, a group of concerned bystanders would intervene and beat the crap out of them?

 

We can't live in a state of constant anxiety due to fear of reprisals, that is existence not life. If everyone had the same attitude they would need a veritable army of lawyers to prosecute us all.

 

In my case, I have intervened several times to protect those who could not protect themselves, and have never regretted it. I would do so again without hesitation simply because it is the right thing to do...I strongly urge EVERYONE to adopt this attitude, and then maybe we can reclaim the streets for ordinary, decent people.

[Tick]

QUOTE (workingcinderellaman @ Feb 12 2010, 04:35 PM)

I wasn't saying they should fire them for what happened. From what I understand they were doing exactly what they were trained to do.

That's actually quite funny. Now that there is some tough training. It must be tough to pass that coarse. How exactly does one train to do nothing? Do you sit around eating Bon Bons?

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (Fridge @ Feb 12 2010, 04:03 PM)

Has it ever occured to you that the reason these teenage thugs are so emboldened is precisely because of that attitude? How brave do you think they would be if it was the norm that every time someone was attacked, a group of concerned bystanders would intervene and beat the crap out of them?

Excellent point.

[Tick]

QUOTE (Fridge @ Feb 12 2010, 05:03 PM)

To all of you who say they would stand back and not get involved due to fear of the consequences: Has it ever occured to you that the reason these teenage thugs are so emboldened is precisely because of that attitude? How brave do you think they would be if it was the norm that every time someone was attacked, a group of concerned bystanders would intervene and beat the crap out of them? We can't live in a state of constant anxiety due to fear of reprisals, that is existence not life. If everyone had the same attitude they would need a veritable army of lawyers to prosecute us all. In my case, I have intervened several times to protect those who could not protect themselves, and have never regretted it. I would do so again without hesitation simply because it is the right thing to do...I strongly urge EVERYONE to adopt this attitude, and then maybe we can reclaim the streets for ordinary, decent people.

I hear ya Fridge !!! Loud and clear.

 

If more people thought like this, then a difference would be made. Are you listening SS?

[thesweetscience]

QUOTE (tick @ Feb 12 2010, 05:09 PM)

QUOTE (Fridge @ Feb 12 2010, 05:03 PM) To all of you who say they would stand back and not get involved due to fear of the consequences: Has it ever occured to you that the reason these teenage thugs are so emboldened is precisely because of that attitude? How brave do you think they would be if it was the norm that every time someone was attacked, a group of concerned bystanders would intervene and beat the crap out of them? We can't live in a state of constant anxiety due to fear of reprisals, that is existence not life. If everyone had the same attitude they would need a veritable army of lawyers to prosecute us all. In my case, I have intervened several times to protect those who could not protect themselves, and have never regretted it. I would do so again without hesitation simply because it is the right thing to do...I strongly urge EVERYONE to adopt this attitude, and then maybe we can reclaim the streets for ordinary, decent people. I hear ya Fridge !!! Loud and clear.   If more people thought like this, then a difference would be made. Are you listening SS? Yep. I am not buying it though.

[Tick]

QUOTE (thesweetscience @ Feb 12 2010, 05:13 PM)

QUOTE (tick @ Feb 12 2010, 05:09 PM) QUOTE (Fridge @ Feb 12 2010, 05:03 PM) To all of you who say they would stand back and not get involved due to fear of the consequences: Has it ever occured to you that the reason these teenage thugs are so emboldened is precisely because of that attitude? How brave do you think they would be if it was the norm that every time someone was attacked, a group of concerned bystanders would intervene and beat the crap out of them? We can't live in a state of constant anxiety due to fear of reprisals, that is existence not life. If everyone had the same attitude they would need a veritable army of lawyers to prosecute us all. In my case, I have intervened several times to protect those who could not protect themselves, and have never regretted it. I would do so again without hesitation simply because it is the right thing to do...I strongly urge EVERYONE to adopt this attitude, and then maybe we can reclaim the streets for ordinary, decent people. I hear ya Fridge !!! Loud and clear.   If more people thought like this, then a difference would be made. Are you listening SS? Yep. I am not buying it though. I guess that is exactly why your assessment of the world is correct.

[thesweetscience]

QUOTE (tick @ Feb 12 2010, 05:15 PM)

QUOTE (thesweetscience @ Feb 12 2010, 05:13 PM) QUOTE (tick @ Feb 12 2010, 05:09 PM) QUOTE (Fridge @ Feb 12 2010, 05:03 PM) To all of you who say they would stand back and not get involved due to fear of the consequences: Has it ever occured to you that the reason these teenage thugs are so emboldened is precisely because of that attitude? How brave do you think they would be if it was the norm that every time someone was attacked, a group of concerned bystanders would intervene and beat the crap out of them? We can't live in a state of constant anxiety due to fear of reprisals, that is existence not life. If everyone had the same attitude they would need a veritable army of lawyers to prosecute us all. In my case, I have intervened several times to protect those who could not protect themselves, and have never regretted it. I would do so again without hesitation simply because it is the right thing to do...I strongly urge EVERYONE to adopt this attitude, and then maybe we can reclaim the streets for ordinary, decent people. I hear ya Fridge !!! Loud and clear.   If more people thought like this, then a difference would be made. Are you listening SS? Yep. I am not buying it though. I guess that is exactly why your assessment of the world is correct. Its kind of a shitty catch 22 but its completely true. If you want to survive you have to think of yourself first.   If that scenario were to happen at a bus stop in Baltimore and anyone was to trying to intervene. That person would be headed to the hospital with multiple gunshot/stab wounds. That's the reality of it. Maybe it isn't that way where some of you live so the danger of stepping in isn't real but where I live people die everyday over shit like this. I have seen people shot and stabbed right in front of me. That shit sticks with you. Do as you will.

[Janie]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Feb 12 2010, 02:05 PM)

QUOTE (Fridge @ Feb 12 2010, 04:03 PM) Has it ever occured to you that the reason these teenage thugs are so emboldened is precisely because of that attitude? How brave do you think they would be if it was the norm that every time someone was attacked, a group of concerned bystanders would intervene and beat the crap out of them? Excellent point. Yes. Especially since the girl was brazen (other words could fit there) enough to do this right in front of security guards. Security guards and mall security guards are worthless. What's the point? And to the rest of society... come on people. I wish we had audio on this tape. I would love to hear if anyone was saying anything.

[Xanadoood]

Kids are out of Fukin control nowadays. If i saw this as a passerby, i would step in and try and take control of the situation. Seeing somoene getting there ass beat , especially a female, is never fun to watch. I hung with many bullies growing up, and was always the " cool" guy who didnt pick on anyone, and stood up to many a- holes. I find it disturbing the amount of girls fighting nowadays. I dont recall a lot of girl fights in my youth.

 

The security guards most likely will be fired after more and more people see this. Its just common sense and a moral obligation to stop this type of violence, especially if your job entails " security". Sad situation.

[Tick]

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Feb 12 2010, 05:30 PM)

Kids are out of Fukin control nowadays. If i saw this as a passerby, i would step in and try and take control of the situation. Seeing somoene getting there ass beat , especially a female, is never fun to watch. I hung with many bullies growing up, and was always the " cool" guy who didnt pick on anyone, and stood up to many a- holes. I find it disturbing the amount of girls fighting nowadays. I dont recall a lot of girl fights in my youth. The security guards most likely will be fired after more and more people see this. Its just common sense and a moral obligation to stop this type of violence, especially if your job entails " security". Sad situation.

The guards were worthless pussies, and complete losers. That's why they make a living by standing around watching some young girl get her brains kicked in. Losers with a capital L.

 

[southernjim]

Get between them. If the girl wants to attack me, I never leave the house without my favorite knife (one minimum), and most often a short tactical baton