Entre_Perpetuo Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 In defence of lazy songwriting, wouldn`t it be a weird time to introduce a brand new idea in the song, right at the end? It`s more appropriate to be reinforcing the central concept. The only songs that immediately come to mind are "Heaven Is A Place on Earth" and "It`s So Easy". I think I`m stuck in 1987 :) So, like, say, The Spirit Of Radio? SALESMEN! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbanezJem Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 In defence of lazy songwriting, wouldn`t it be a weird time to introduce a brand new idea in the song, right at the end? It`s more appropriate to be reinforcing the central concept. The only songs that immediately come to mind are "Heaven Is A Place on Earth" and "It`s So Easy". I think I`m stuck in 1987 :) So, like, say, The Spirit Of Radio? SALESMEN!You can`t just airbrush :Alex: from the last 30 seconds to suit your argument! Shame on you :tsk: ;) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbanezJem Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Oh, and there`ll definitely be a Hagar lyric for this thread, but I`ve had a rather rich lunch and I can`t risk listening to him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 In defence of lazy songwriting, wouldn`t it be a weird time to introduce a brand new idea in the song, right at the end? It`s more appropriate to be reinforcing the central concept. The only songs that immediately come to mind are "Heaven Is A Place on Earth" and "It`s So Easy". I think I`m stuck in 1987 :) So, like, say, The Spirit Of Radio? SALESMEN!You can`t just airbrush :Alex: from the last 30 seconds to suit your argument! Shame on you :tsk: ;) Hey you never specified it had to be the very very end! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha p Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Die Young - SabbathFor Those About To Rock - AC/DC, the "we salute you" line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisible airwave Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 God know how many times Billy Joel has done this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtron Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 I like Every Picture Tells a Story because it's like Rod Stewart realized he forgot a hook and just threw it at the end a million times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddysMullet Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 "Beginnings" by Chicago, though the vocal repetition in that song is far less a sin than its endless drum coda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyta Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) Na-na-na, na-na-na-nahNa-na-na-nahHey Jude.....Hey Jude was one I never liked by the Beatles. The other Beatle songs referenced here don't bother me at all, that was the style of the time. Now George's song Got My Mind Set on You.... :eyeroll: way too much repetition. That's why Weird Al did a parody of it. :lol: Edited October 12, 2021 by Rhyta 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbanezJem Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Na-na-na, na-na-na-nahNa-na-na-nahHey Jude.....Hey Jude was one I never liked by the Beatles. The others referenced here don't bother me at all, that was the style of the time. Now George's song Got My Mind Set on You.... :eyeroll: way too much repetition. That's why Weird Al did a parody of it. :lol:Don`t blame George! He`s the nice one! He was only covering James Ray (with Hutch Davie Orchestra & Chorus) :cool: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driventotheedge Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Na-na-na, na-na-na-nahNa-na-na-nahHey Jude.....Na na na na na na na na......hey, hey goodbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goose Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 A bunch of John Cougar Mellencamp songs oh and just thought of another one Yes - I've Seen All Good PeopleAll Good People is different though, i.e., the presence of Steve HoweI've Seen All Good People keeps changing key, as well, which keeps things interesting. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream & vapour Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 In this category, Runaway by Jefferson Starship is the, um . . . runaway winner (or loser, depending upon your perspective). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 :musicnote: Love is all you need [repeat endlessly] :musicnote: Still lots of variation there - and of course you can't really debate the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughedatbytime Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 :musicnote: Love is all you need [repeat endlessly] :musicnote: Still lots of variation there - and of course you can't really debate the message.Sure you can: see Hemispheres side 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 I don't know why - it sucks - but I find myself growing increasingly irritated by too much repetition in music. It could be my tendency to fixate on repetition. I'm talking about songs that repeat the song title or a key line in the song over and over and over as the song fades out. "Sending out an S.O.S.! Sending out and S.O.S.!..." I dig Daft Punk, but there's that one song that drives me nuts, Lose Yourself to Dance. Whodunnit by Genesis is annoying, too. I recently listened to Mike Rutherford's album Acting Very Strange, and I swear every song on this record does it at the end. At least when Rush does it, they sort of change it up melodically a bit, don't they? "Closer to the Heart"... It's okay if you all think I'm bent out of shape over nothing much - just wondering if anyone else has noticed this, or noticed other repetitive riffs or things that kind of get old fast. There are way too many songs that are ridiculously repetitive as the result of poor or lazy songwriting. Best Of You by the Foo Fighters and New York Groove by Ace Frehley are but two examples. No no no, I'm gonna have to majorly disagree on Best Of You. Yes! It's very repetitive. The main melodic line sticks to one note almost the whole way! However that song lives and dies by its dynamics. If you sing it monotone with an acoustic guitar, it's going nowhere. But put it in the hands of a tight band with excellent dynamic control and it's an anthem through and through! For my money Taylor Hawkins' drumming is what really sells the song. And I would NOT call it lazy or poor songwriting. It's a desperate lyric about the struggle to persevere when outside forces are actively trying to use you and keep you down, and the music perfectly embodies that. That's sort of what I was getting at, just not as well. If there is enough going on in the song dynamically or melodically - if there is some other "stuff" - then I don't find the repetition annoying. This tune has definitely got some passion driving it, as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 "I'm getting closer to my home..." from I'm Your Captain. :zzz: Isn't that song like half an hour long, as well? It seems like it... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 That's why when one learns to play, say, classical guitar, tutors tell you to change the phrasing when repeating sections e.g. play brighter, softer, louder etc (near the bridge or up the neck etc). I've seen a lesson Joe Satriani gave to a very accomplished guitarist playing one of his tunes and he basically said the same thing about varying the way a repeated phrase or section is played.But is this done with vocals? And if it is done on some of these examples, does the repetition of the words still sound annoying? Maybe. But isn't pop and/or popular rock music built around simple, repeated phrases??That's why we've all migrated to Rush (presumably) because we've outgrown most of the simple, repetitive stuff. Because they 'tried' to make their music a little bit more sophisticated for the most part :P :Neil: :rush: IMO most of the songs listed so far are repetitive but have enough variation throughout the song to keep them enjoyable. The deal with pop music is you want the familiarity of repeated sections, but you do want to subtly change the arrangement of them to make the song seem to progress even as it's coming back to the same theme. I think Muse do this very well in many of their poppier tracks, as they usually include an element in the second verse that wasn't there in the first, which then takes the second chorus to another level. More recently they've been doing extended sort of outro's with extra words on pop songs too, sometimes before a final chorus, which I think really brings them home. What do you think of the Mike Rutherford album I mentioned? I dig the album, but I want the songs to end sooner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 In defence of lazy songwriting, wouldn`t it be a weird time to introduce a brand new idea in the song, right at the end? It`s more appropriate to be reinforcing the central concept. The only songs that immediately come to mind are "Heaven Is A Place on Earth" and "It`s So Easy". I think I`m stuck in 1987 :) it's cool to stick with the theme - just add some variations so that it doesn't sound like the record is skipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 I like Every Picture Tells a Story because it's like Rod Stewart realized he forgot a hook and just threw it at the end a million times. See, that's a great example of what I'm talking about! The backup vocals kind of save it . . , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughedatbytime Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 There may be more repetitive songs than this, but not many. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 Na-na-na, na-na-na-nahNa-na-na-nahHey Jude.....Hey Jude was one I never liked by the Beatles. The other Beatle songs referenced here don't bother me at all, that was the style of the time. Now George's song Got My Mind Set on You.... :eyeroll: way too much repetition. That's why Weird Al did a parody of it. :lol: Gruesome song, although if I have to listen to it, I prefer the original. I told my band that I would quit if they insisted on playing that song. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 :musicnote: Love is all you need [repeat endlessly] :musicnote: Still lots of variation there - and of course you can't really debate the message.Sure you can: see Hemispheres side 1 Nah, being ripped apart by wolves while starving to death is much better than suffering from ennui . . . :scared: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughedatbytime Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 :musicnote: Love is all you need [repeat endlessly] :musicnote: Still lots of variation there - and of course you can't really debate the message.Sure you can: see Hemispheres side 1 Nah, being ripped apart by wolves while starving to death is much better than suffering from ennui . . . :scared:That's one take. You're probably in the minority with that one. Or maybe I just don't know enough millenials. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 That's why when one learns to play, say, classical guitar, tutors tell you to change the phrasing when repeating sections e.g. play brighter, softer, louder etc (near the bridge or up the neck etc). I've seen a lesson Joe Satriani gave to a very accomplished guitarist playing one of his tunes and he basically said the same thing about varying the way a repeated phrase or section is played.But is this done with vocals? And if it is done on some of these examples, does the repetition of the words still sound annoying? Maybe. But isn't pop and/or popular rock music built around simple, repeated phrases??That's why we've all migrated to Rush (presumably) because we've outgrown most of the simple, repetitive stuff. Because they 'tried' to make their music a little bit more sophisticated for the most part :P :Neil: :rush: IMO most of the songs listed so far are repetitive but have enough variation throughout the song to keep them enjoyable. The deal with pop music is you want the familiarity of repeated sections, but you do want to subtly change the arrangement of them to make the song seem to progress even as it's coming back to the same theme. I think Muse do this very well in many of their poppier tracks, as they usually include an element in the second verse that wasn't there in the first, which then takes the second chorus to another level. More recently they've been doing extended sort of outro's with extra words on pop songs too, sometimes before a final chorus, which I think really brings them home. What do you think of the Mike Rutherford album I mentioned? I dig the album, but I want the songs to end sooner! I'm so bad at listening to solo albums. I haven't heard solo works from Brian May, Roger Taylor, Geddy, Alex, Tony Banks, or Mike Rutherford. I have heard Gabriel, Collins, Hackett, and Mercury. Should I give that Rutherford album a listen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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