Why is Rush music considered pretentious?

[ReRushed]

What you think?

Unusual compositions, odd time sigs, lyrics that alternated between being preachy and geeky, "Overture" and "Grand Finale", etc...

If that stuff is truly pretentious, and loving pretentious music is wrong, than I don't want to be right! :banana:

Hey, at least "2112" makes sense and tells a coherent and linear story. A lot of prog epics are the exact opposite, hence pretentious.

[Segue Myles]

What you think?

Unusual compositions, odd time sigs, lyrics that alternated between being preachy and geeky, "Overture" and "Grand Finale", etc...

If that stuff is truly pretentious, and loving pretentious music is wrong, than I don't want to be right! :banana:

Hey, at least "2112" makes sense and tells a coherent and linear story. A lot of prog epics are the exact opposite, hence pretentious.

 

Hemispheres. Fountain Of Lamneth.

[ReRushed]

What you think?

Unusual compositions, odd time sigs, lyrics that alternated between being preachy and geeky, "Overture" and "Grand Finale", etc...

If that stuff is truly pretentious, and loving pretentious music is wrong, than I don't want to be right! :banana:

Hey, at least "2112" makes sense and tells a coherent and linear story. A lot of prog epics are the exact opposite, hence pretentious.

 

Hemispheres. Fountain Of Lamneth.

I think "Hemispheres" is an actually song, not several songs threaded together. I can see, and to a point, agree that it can be seen as pretentious. It's also the last extra long epic the boys attempted. They moved on.

 

"Fountain of Lamneth" is a perfect example of over ambition and lack of ability. Growing pains.

[GernTheFish]

I can see why people viewed Neil's lyrics as pretentious, but I think he truly wrote what interested him at the time. To me, that's not being pretentious.

 

I don't think they were pretentious with their musical virtuosity either. They were'nt pretending they could play well, they just did.

[JARG]

What you think?

Unusual compositions, odd time sigs, lyrics that alternated between being preachy and geeky, "Overture" and "Grand Finale", etc...

If that stuff is truly pretentious, and loving pretentious music is wrong, than I don't want to be right! :banana:

No danger of that. ;)

Edited March 30, 2017 by JARG

[Digital Dad]

There is a certain je ne se qua.

[Digital Dad]

There is a certain je ne se qua.

 

Also Rush music is better than you.

[grasbo]

Some good points made here. I always felt they got that label early on because they did not write about the usual crap ( love,women, sex, drugs, partying) their music actually had something worthwhile to say, so the rest of the music world looked at RUSH like "they think they are smarter or better than us" so they labeled them pretentious. That is my personal take on it.

Exactly.There was no rawking choruses yelling Jump,You give Love a Bad Name,You Shook Me All Night Long or Rock n Roll All Night and maybe there was an odd chord or rhythmn here and there.The snotty punk brigade were oppressed with colourful lyrics(sex pistols,etc) or stoopid(Ramones),Disco and dance is all about having a good time,err,dancing.Rush were too bombastic for the singer/songwriter rootsy type band fans.I think Rush were just too difficult to pigeon hole due to their changes in musical and lyrical approach so they just got labelled pretentious

[Lucas]

pre·ten·tious

 

 

/prəˈten(t)SHəs/

 

adjective

 

adjective: pretentious

 

Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

 

 

To me, this doesn't fit their 70s output at all

 

Later on, you might have a case

[Xanadoood]

I think we can all agree they were reaching with the kimonos and naked guy on a brain album cover. I totally get why critics and rock fans of the day teased and ridiculed them. They didn't have the cool weirdness of Floyd or king crimson. I love all that stuff , but if they continued down that path they wouldn't have achieved the eventual respect they got.

[EagleMoon]

I think we can all agree they were reaching with the kimonos and naked guy on a brain album cover. I totally get why critics and rock fans of the day teased and ridiculed them. They didn't have the cool weirdness of Floyd or king crimson. I love all that stuff , but if they continued down that path they wouldn't have achieved the eventual respect they got.

 

I find your point of view interesting. Personally I think they could've done a couple more albums in the same vein as 2112 or Hemispheres and people would have loved it. Change was inevitable, of course but they didn't change completely. They always sounded like themselves no matter how experimental they got with keyboards or less guitar. But there are still a lot of people that think their progressive era was the best, lyrics and music. Myself included.

[Xanadoood]

I think we can all agree they were reaching with the kimonos and naked guy on a brain album cover. I totally get why critics and rock fans of the day teased and ridiculed them. They didn't have the cool weirdness of Floyd or king crimson. I love all that stuff , but if they continued down that path they wouldn't have achieved the eventual respect they got.

 

I find your point of view interesting. Personally I think they could've done a couple more albums in the same vein as 2112 or Hemispheres and people would have loved it. Change was inevitable, of course but they didn't change completely. They always sounded like themselves no matter how experimental they got with keyboards or less guitar. But there are still a lot of people that think their progressive era was the best, lyrics and music. Myself included.

 

I agree with much of that. The 75-78 period is epic Rush. Love it. I just feel the change they made with PeW was the best for them at the time.

 

[IwillchooseFreeWill]

They always said they were trying to produce the best music they could, always trying to get better. Neil read a lot and obviously had ideas that didn't fit into a standard rock song. And they did like complicated musical structures, not just loud chords. This wasn't because they thought they were better than other bands, it's just where they were going with expression and they never cared whether the critics liked it. If the fans liked it and kept coming to concerts, that was their goal. I still can't figure out how the three of them composed songs, even after I've heard the process described. They must have gotten along extremely well and had no ego involved.

[Blue Barchetta]

I believe Rush music is labeled pretentious because most of it came out before tentious was really popular.

[Mr. JD]

pre·ten·tious

 

 

/prəˈten(t)SHəs/

 

adjective

 

adjective: pretentious

 

Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

 

 

Was Zumbi's picture included with this definition?

[Mosher]

Someone can appear pretentious when they aren't.

 

I think Neil sometimes sounds like he's trying hard to be clever, to sound intrinsically like an especially clever and erudite man. I know from personal experience that I love to play with words. I prefer the less common word, the more challenging word, when I write or speak. I learned that the reader and/or listener often hates this and sees it as pretentious, even though you're just enjoying writing and honestly like how it sounds.

 

I can't get in Neil's head, but I can understand the criticism. Because even though I know I love to write in a seemingly pretentious fashion, I also know that I honestly like how it sounds and it really is who I am. If that fits Neil, then he isn't pretentious. If he's trying to sell that he's more than he's not, than he is.

 

I suppose the fact that he never wants to talk to anyone makes it less likely he's trying to prove anything, because when he doesn bother to talk to people publicly he's consistently the same way. To me that isn't pretension.

 

Since there is, and there certainly was a desire among critics to return rock to it's 'pure' form and reject anything beyond 1-2-3 go, calling something 'pretentious' was an easy go to for them. They could reduce someone's entire album's worth of effort to worthlessness with the single remark of 'pretension'.

 

In my opinion, it's the critics who are pretentious. They're the ones assuming that they have some special role in deciding what has value to another listeners ear. It isn't honest criticism, it's reductive. It sets a foundation where if you aren't in a proper time signature, then they won't even try to listen to anything else. They make wild claims about how the band is working overly hard to project falsehoods, while barely acknowledging that the band isn't trying to be The Ramones. These critics decide that even though you can play in complex fashion, that you shouldn't.

 

In other words, bands like Rush (and the probably more vilified Tull) are judged by how much they sound like 'normal' rock and roll. In fact, a common criticism was that they weren't playing rock and roll.

 

If they aren't playing rock and roll, though, then the criticism never had any value in the first place.

 

Rock critics, especially back then, would be like this:

 

Individual hands a critic an apple:

Critic-- "These here apples, these are damned fine apples. Best apples I ever tasted!"

 

Individual hands a critic an apple pie:

Critic-- "These here apples have been stretched beyond all recognition! It's just chucks of apple with weird outside elements stirred all around, all stuck into what I can only imagine is the chef's idea of cohesion. But all an apple eater could get out of this mess is a sugar high with no real apple truth. Pretentious apples.

[JohnnyBlaze]

pre·ten·tious

 

 

/prəˈten(t)SHəs/

 

adjective

 

adjective: pretentious

 

Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

 

 

Was Zumbi's picture included with this definition?

 

 

http://thisconlife.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/img_4124.jpg

 

 

[vitalsigns318]

Isn't there pretension/indulgence baked right into the cake when one declares themselves an artist, chooses to "create" music, record it and offer it up for people to purchase and on top of that, appear at a public venue, go up on stage and perform for people - and as a final audacity, charge money.

 

You want to create? Good - keep it to yourself you self-important t**t.

 

I don't buy the pretentious knock against Rush or prog in general. Certainly no more than the audacity of Bowie, Dylan, Iggy, Ramones, Nirvana or anyone else who created and wanted to share it with the world.

 

Thank you, my husband and I have a concept album and we have been told by a couple close friends that the music is too complicated and the lyrics are too deep, the majority of the listening audience wouldn't get it, and that we should dumb down our songs. Rush said themselves that our audience is just as smart as we are. If an individual or band is blessed to create, why should the work ever be dumbed down. Inspiration should never be stifled.

[EagleMoon]

The media has been trying to dumb down society for years and years. Unfortunately they have been doing a very good job. Being good at something and working hard for something seems to be looking down on anymore. Using a word like pretentious is just a lazy way to make something sound like a put down. Rush worked hard for what they got and it was well earned. Nothing fake about that.