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Geddy called Tai Shan "an error"!!!!!!!!

Geddy Lee Tai Shan error

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#21 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 12:12 PM

View Postcoventry, on 25 July 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

What separates Tai Shan from High Water is, among other things, that the former is a tone poem of sorts about a personal and passionate bicycle journey, while the latter is an exploration and celebration of the role of an element in our development and identity. Tai Shan's music seems firmly rooted in its cultural context and scale, but High Water's music actually builds and builds in layers and layers, mimicking our own evolutionary development, etc.

That's why High Water gets marks over Tai Shan.

That, and Tai Shan is simply so cheesy it makes Velveeta look sophisticated.
If Peart bicycled up Tai Shan then he probably set some world record. Doing such a feat would likely require a specially made bike and legs of pure steel...those '7000 stairs' ain't no exaggeration. And in parts, the stairs appear more like a ladder

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#22 drbirdsong

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 01:26 PM

Tai Shan was the end of how far Rush could go with keyboard music.  I remember being disappointed when Geddy played Red Sector A on keys with no bass and then they just kept getting softer and softer.  His bass playing on that album is amazing and deserves all the praise it gets around here, but I was tired of the route Alex had taken.  I'm glad they got a new producer and started turning it around.  Hold Your Fire is fine, I still like it, but the keyboards should augment their music not dominate it.  Just my opinion, but I think the band agrees.  

I guess you also have to put the album in context.  The 1980s were a very bad decade for hard rocking prog music.

#23 coventry

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 01:31 PM

View PostJohnnyBlaze, on 25 July 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

View Postcoventry, on 25 July 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

What separates Tai Shan from High Water is, among other things, that the former is a tone poem of sorts about a personal and passionate bicycle journey, while the latter is an exploration and celebration of the role of an element in our development and identity. Tai Shan's music seems firmly rooted in its cultural context and scale, but High Water's music actually builds and builds in layers and layers, mimicking our own evolutionary development, etc.

That's why High Water gets marks over Tai Shan.

That, and Tai Shan is simply so cheesy it makes Velveeta look sophisticated.
If Peart bicycled up Tai Shan then he probably set some world record. Doing such a feat would likely require a specially made bike and legs of pure steel...those '7000 stairs' ain't no exaggeration. And in parts, the stairs appear more like a ladder

Well, not exactly bicycled UP Tai Shan, but went here whilst on a bike journey through China in the 80's.

#24 presto123

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

View Postdrbirdsong, on 25 July 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Tai Shan was the end of how far Rush could go with keyboard music.  I remember being disappointed when Geddy played Red Sector A on keys with no bass and then they just kept getting softer and softer.  His bass playing on that album is amazing and deserves all the praise it gets around here, but I was tired of the route Alex had taken.  I'm glad they got a new producer and started turning it around.  Hold Your Fire is fine, I still like it, but the keyboards should augment their music not dominate it.  Just my opinion, but I think the band agrees.  

I guess you also have to put the album in context.  The 1980s were a very bad decade for hard rocking prog music.


Much of what you say is true and I don't want keys to dominate a Rush record but I really miss the keys for flavor and atmosphere. They really help set a mood. Kind of like the role the strings played on CA. I think many of the songs on CA wouldn't be nearly as good without the strings. They are sublime on songs like The Wreckers and The Garden.

#25 Retrospective

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 01:42 PM

Geddy has also been quoted saying that he feels like Tai Shan was such a personal experience for Neil that it was weird for them to have it on the album and that it would have been better to keep it that way - as just a personal experience.

I like that better than calling it an "error".

#26 circumstantial tree

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 01:47 PM

It's funny how Hold Your Fire and a song like "Tai Shan" is such a polarizing thing. There's always time to discuss this album and its songs. "It's just a matter of instinct".

#27 EagleMoon

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:21 PM

There's some interview with Geddy on YouTube where the interviewer asks him about his least favorite song and he mentions Tai Shan. He said he just didn't think the song worked. That it was a a personal song for Neil like mentioned above.

#28 Bhawk2112

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:23 PM

You should see what David Gilmour and Roger Waters have said about Atom Heart Mother. Now that's bagging on your own work!

#29 trenken

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

View PostAncient Ways, on 25 July 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

He doesn't think caress of steel was a good idea either and it's one of my faves.  I agree with him in tai Shan though.

Im not so sure they hated CoS when they wrote it, but Geddy has said it hasnt aged well, Im assuming partly due to the hokey lord of the rings lyrics. Plus it represents the worst time for the band so it must be hard for them to look back on it as well as some fans do. That album doesnt represent a very dark time for most of us, but it does for them.

I was a little relieved to hear Geddy say he thought Tai Shan was an error. I like HYF, but that song is so corny and out of place. Its one of those songs that I refuse to let anyone hear me listening to, like Rivendell. I hear Tai Shan and its just 180 degrees in the opposite direction of what I love about Rush. Leave that stuff for Elton John. He has some stuff that doesnt sound that different than that. Rush isnt a soft rock band. Not their strong suit at all.

#30 rushgoober

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:50 PM

View PostBhawk2112, on 25 July 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

You should see what David Gilmour and Roger Waters have said about Atom Heart Mother. Now that's bagging on your own work!

Yeah it's a bit annoying how the Floyd disown so many of their earlier works, and almost every time they're discrediting and disowning something completely brilliant, like Atom Heart Mother.  One of the only instances where they do this and I agree with them is Allan's Psychedelic Breakfast - that song just didn't work at all.

#31 laughedatbytime

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:57 PM

From Mount Taishan I'll bet you can see half the world.    Maybe that's why both these songs are so reminiscent of each other in terms of the pure suckiness of the lyrics.

#32 GeddysMullet

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:08 PM

View Postrushgoober, on 25 July 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

View PostGeddysMullet, on 25 July 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

He's entitled to his opinion.  I think it's a little ungracious for artists to dis their own work in view of fans who love it, and I feel that it's better for artists to keep their negative opinions about their work to themselves to avoid insulting the tastes and feelings of their fans, but hey, artists are human and have tastes and feelings of their own and sometimes they really want to express them.  It doesn't mean that their opinions are "right."  They're just opinions.

I understand, but I'd rather them be honest.  If people are so caught up in their love of a song or album that it bothers them what someone else thinks, maybe they're a little TOO invested. ;)

That said, I like to fiercely debate my points of view on songs and albums (you might have noticed), but mostly I just think people are crazy if they disagree with me and don't take it to heart.  I wish more people just thought I was crazy (which they probably do anyway) and didn't take my opinions so seriously. ;) ;)

And yes, I am fully cognizant how quickly I made this thread about me.  I only do that because I'm just so darn GOOD at doing that. :P

You really don't pick up on nuances, do you.

#33 Hemisteers

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:01 PM

If Tai Shan is an error then what is Virtuality and Dog Years? The apocalypse?

#34 LedRush

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:52 PM

View PostHemisteers, on 25 July 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

If Tai Shan is an error then what is Virtuality and Dog Years? The apocalypse?

Very good songs?

#35 rushgoober

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:03 PM

View PostLedRush, on 25 July 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

View PostHemisteers, on 25 July 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

If Tai Shan is an error then what is Virtuality and Dog Years? The apocalypse?

Very good songs?

Good question.

:no:

#36 An Enemy Without

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:08 PM

It was definitely a mistake to listen to it.

#37 Pause Rewind Replay

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:38 AM

View Postrushgoober, on 25 July 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

  High Water and Tai Shan were indeed errors and are not worthy of the rest of the material on that album.

As usual, in my opinion you're half right :cool:

Tai Shan was an error, but High Water holds its own with the rest of HYF.

Edited by Pause Rewind Replay, 26 July 2013 - 12:51 AM.


#38 Pause Rewind Replay

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:45 AM

View PostDel_Duio, on 25 July 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Don't get too bent out of shape about it, the whole band considers Caress of Steel an error too


And they're right Posted Image :oops:

#39 Pause Rewind Replay

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:49 AM

View PostLedRush, on 25 July 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

View PostHemisteers, on 25 July 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

If Tai Shan is an error then what is Virtuality and Dog Years? The apocalypse?

Very good songs?

Well played, sir!  :clap:

#40 RushBoingo

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:04 AM

View Postrushgoober, on 25 July 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

View PostLedRush, on 25 July 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

View PostHemisteers, on 25 July 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

If Tai Shan is an error then what is Virtuality and Dog Years? The apocalypse?

Very good songs?

Good question.

:no:
Amazing-ish-well musically anyway songs





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