Loudness war or Embracing metal?

[JohnnyBlaze]

How about calling it "mid life crisis"

 

See, see, we can still rock, we're not that old

 

Counterparts is the Rush midlife crisis. Modern-era Rush is the point where your grandfather starts saying racist shit cause he doesn't care about what people think anymore.

 

I'm only kidding. I enjoy those albums.

I like you.

 

I reckon DoL will be getting a Member Title before the year ends. As you know, it takes years for some.

[EagleMoon]

Not to derail the discussion of Permanent Waves, but the "loudness" of Vapor Trails evokes the emotional state of the band's drummer at the time...and to a lesser extent, Ged and Alex. It's a painful listen...but intentionally so.

 

Sorry but there is no justifying a poorly produced album, especially when the band admits there was a problem.

[Eel Yddeg]

Personally, I'd divide Rush's eras as this.

Rush and Fly By Night: Hard Rock in the vein of Led Zeppelin.

Caress of Steel through Hemispheres: Still hard rock, but with heavy progressive rock influence. (I wouldn't really consider Rush "pure prog". Some of their songs are, but most are standard hard rock)

Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures: More radio-friendly arena rock music.

Signals, Grace Under Pressure, and Power Windows: '80s New Wave.

Hold Your Fire, Presto, and Roll The Bones: Pop rock.

Counterparts and Test For Echo: Return to hard rock, influenced by grunge.

Vapor Trails, Snakes and Arrows, and Clockwork Angels: A return to their classic sound.

As for the production, I have no idea why everyone hates it. Production doesn't really matter to me, and this album sounds fine.

[Segue Myles]

Does anyone have the vinyl rip of CA on hand to share? I keep hearing it is better...I bought the album twice so I am not up for paying for it again just yet...

 

And for the record, if I delete three songs, I really enjoy CA.

 

But metal? Sorry, no. Clockwork Angel's is just a noisy rock album. Past the noise of the terrible mixing, it's fairly basic rock as well, with a few random jams thrown in that sound like they were forced in there.

 

And the one interlude, BU2B2, should have been longer. I still think it has a precious quality about it, one that the band should have expanded on. It strikes me as being quite original for Rush, almost ambient.

 

But once you get past the noise it really isn't all that heavy. Or modern. Or fresh.

 

With the possible exception of Headlong Flight, which I will admit is one of the bands all time greats.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Segue Myles

[Geddy's Soul Patch]

Rush embraced metal long before these sonic shit fests were released

[Union 5-3992]

Is it possible that after years of touring, their hearing isn't as good as it used to be?

[Union 5-3992]

I gave a few songs on the vinyl a spin last night, you can hear every instrument a lot more clearly. A huge improvement

[EagleMoon]

I have the original Caravan single release and it sounds so much better. The bass isn't blasting out in front and it sounds a lot more balanced. You can actually hear the drums much better too.

[RUSHHEAD666]

When most music critics and audiophiles talk about Vapor Trails and Clockwork Angels (not so much Snakes and Arrows), they always throw out the words "loudness war" and say that Rush is trying to play their music as ear-splittingly loud as possible for whatever reason.

 

My theory is that for those two (or three if you count SnA) albums, Rush was simply experimenting and beginning to embrace heavy metal and that they were going through another genre shift as they've done many times before. Think about it...

In 1975 when Neil joined, they went from hard rock to progressive rock.

In 1980 they went from straight progressive rock to a more progressive variant of arena rock.

In 1982, they went from arena rock to new wave.

In 1990, they went from new wave to power pop/AOR,

In 1994 they went from power pop to 1990s hard rock/grunge

and from 2002-onward, they went to progressive heavy metal.

 

That's why I think the production on those two albums were made to be as heavy as possible. They experimented with metal and were satisfied with the result.

 

Nice breakdown. I totally agree, but I love Loudness! Especially the stuff from the Eighties!

 

Signed,

 

"LIGHTNING STRIKES!"

[JohnRogers]

PeW was created and recorded in 1979.

 

We're not debating this.

There is no debate, it's a 70s album.

Written in 1979, recorded and mixed in 1979, shrink wrapped and palletized placed in a wear house in 1979.

 

RUSH was never New Wave...ever.

Edited February 22, 2016 by JohnRogers

[The Analog Grownup]

Has anyone here heard the vinyl mix of CA??

Has anyone here heard the vinyl mix of CA??

 

Yes. I have it. I does sound better. Not as good as it could I believe but there is more definition. I find it much easier to listen to at a loud volume with headphones. I use an amp and open headphones which helps open up the sound stage.

 

I have the vinyl also. Don't have the CD so I can only comment on how I perceive the vinyl mix. It's a busy album although not as busy as Snakes & Arrows. You will get the most out of this album with good speakers and preferably with a subwoofer. During the solo in The Anarchist the sound is just so ... power, much wow! To be honest I don't experience any of the sonic problems I hear some of you speak of, and it probably is due to the medium. I've read that there's a natural limit to how loud you can make an LP, but don't know if it's true.

[The Analog Grownup]

If you think CA is brickwalling do me a favor and listen to Metallica's Death Magnetic. Even VT will sound wimpy and thin afterwards.

[RUSHHEAD666]

If you think CA is brickwalling do me a favor and listen to Metallica's Death Magnetic. Even VT will sound wimpy and thin afterwards.

 

Jesus man, and to think I liked "Death Crapmatic" after that shite wall of a record called "ST. ANGER."

 

BEND OVER METALLICLOCKWORKANGELSA FANS!

 

YUCK!

 

A drunk shit in the morning sounds better hitting my toilet bowl water than those records.

 

No corn, all meat.

 

Porcelain Poop Stains Forever!

 

 

"Golden Shower Of Hits" I mean SHITS!"

 

Signed,

 

CIRCLE JERKS

 

Sorry,

 

Bad Punk Humor.

 

I'm "RATED X" tonight!

 

PAT BENATAR!

 

 

Quick! Duct tape my hands!

 

Don't even get me started on "Vapor Trails." Broken Record Boulevard. "St. Anger" = "Vapor Trails." JUNK SONGS JUNK PRODUCTION = PUNK REPRODUCTION OF RADICAL RECTUM REJECTS!

[Irenicus]

If you think CA is brickwalling do me a favor and listen to Metallica's Death Magnetic. Even VT will sound wimpy and thin afterwards.

Just because there are worse examples, doesn't mean CA isn't brickwalled, because it clearly is if you know what brickwalling means. Death Magnetic is more than just brickwalled and clipped, it goes so far that they actually created digital distortion. But remember, Lars Ulrich has intense Tinnitus, so to him it probably sounds just fine.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Irenicus

[The Analog Grownup]

If you think CA is brickwalling do me a favor and listen to Metallica's Death Magnetic. Even VT will sound wimpy and thin afterwards.

Just because there are worse examples, doesn't mean CA isn't brickwalled, because it clearly is if you know what brickwalling means. Death Magnetic is more than just brickwalled and clipped, it goes so far that they actually created digital distortion. But remember, Lars Ulrich has intense Tinnitus, so to him it probably sounds just fine.

 

If we're debating wether or not CA is brickwalled we need to establish when it becomes brickwalled. Otherwise it's a moot point I think. Some say it's brickwalled and some say it isn't. I consider myself the latter.

[Segue Myles]

If you think CA is brickwalling do me a favor and listen to Metallica's Death Magnetic. Even VT will sound wimpy and thin afterwards.

 

We were talking about that album last night on a chat...it's actually quite brilliant musically...another damaged would-be classic!

[bluefox4000]

Funny VT is the album that awakened me to sound quality. i hate them for it cause now i'm critical of EVERYTHING soundwise, lol

 

Mick

[Segue Myles]

Funny VT is the album that awakened me to sound quality. i hate them for it cause now i'm critical of EVERYTHING soundwise, lol

 

Mick

 

Bruce Springsteen's Magic was the turning point for me...I tolerated Death Magnetic (it's not one of my faves anyway), and CA seems somehow cleaner than Magic or VT (but it's harder to forgive because THIS IS THE SECOND TIME!).

Edited February 22, 2016 by Segue Myles

[Irenicus]

If we're debating wether or not CA is brickwalled we need to establish when it becomes brickwalled.

No need to establish anything since it already has been established.

 

This is brickwalling because it looks like a brick wall:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/somemightsay_remaster_HDTracks-580x219.png

 

CA looks pretty much just like that, so it's brickwalled. Simple.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Irenicus

[EagleMoon]

If we're debating wether or not CA is brickwalled we need to establish when it becomes brickwalled.

No need to establish anything since it already has been established.

 

This is brickwalling because it looks like a brick wall:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/somemightsay_remaster_HDTracks-580x219.png

 

CA looks pretty much just like that, so it's brickwalled. Simple.

 

Boosting the volume and compressing the heck out of it makes it look like that. You lose the dynamics. Causes ear fatigue.

[The Analog Grownup]

If we're debating wether or not CA is brickwalled we need to establish when it becomes brickwalled.

No need to establish anything since it already has been established.

 

This is brickwalling because it looks like a brick wall:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/somemightsay_remaster_HDTracks-580x219.png

 

CA looks pretty much just like that, so it's brickwalled. Simple.

 

</debate> I guess

[The Analog Grownup]

If we're debating wether or not CA is brickwalled we need to establish when it becomes brickwalled.

No need to establish anything since it already has been established.

 

This is brickwalling because it looks like a brick wall:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/somemightsay_remaster_HDTracks-580x219.png

 

CA looks pretty much just like that, so it's brickwalled. Simple.

 

Boosting the volume and compressing the heck out of it makes it look like that. You lose the dynamics. Causes ear fatigue.

 

Yup, I know :)

[EagleMoon]

If we're debating wether or not CA is brickwalled we need to establish when it becomes brickwalled.

No need to establish anything since it already has been established.

 

This is brickwalling because it looks like a brick wall:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/somemightsay_remaster_HDTracks-580x219.png

 

CA looks pretty much just like that, so it's brickwalled. Simple.

 

Boosting the volume and compressing the heck out of it makes it look like that. You lose the dynamics. Causes ear fatigue.

 

Yup, I know :)

 

I was just saying that for people who didn't. :)

[EagleMoon]

Pulled these two up to compare because they're both a couple of the noisiest tracks on their respective albums. You can easily see how Snakes was recorded too loudly and compressed. Far Cry on top vs. Time and Motion on the bottom.

 

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/imzadi-7/FarCryTimeAndMotionComparison_zps0y8ix76a.jpg

[jamie]

In my opinion, most of the songs on Vapor Trails seem like a loudness war and I can see why people dislike it because of that. Clockwork Angels is more metal.